I use ClickToFlash on my browser. And been using it for some time now. Most of Flash is irritating ads that I do not want to see anyway. Very few real content and it would be easy to port to newer technologies when these content provider see enough browsers demanding it without flash.
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
I find it difficult to understand the current addiction to Flash amongst some web users and make extensive use of my hosts file to block all advertising, Flash or not. This won't change. As with all things technical and web, there is a degree of consumer choice involved and it comes down to a simple question: what do I want most, the latest device or some fancy animation? Make your choice and stop carping!
someone should make a list of the top 100 most visited websites and see how many don't have non-flash versions and/or iphone apps.
would be interesting to see how that list looks, especially since youtube has stated HTML5...
i imagine hulu and facebook's games are probably most of the small amount of site content in the top 100 list which are not yet iphone compatible (which should soon be changed).
Or am i missing some more obvious examples here? sure of those top 100 sites, I'm guessing most have flash ads, but apart from that there cant be much else other than video (which can be non-flashified fairly quickly....)
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
im pretty sure apple could take the hit if adobe chose the scorched earth method and stop selling mac software (not that adobe shareholders would accept a huge 20% drop in revenues - adobe management would be out of there ASAP)
apple is a consumer company now, and relies very little on pro users. Plus im pretty sure in a quick period they would release aperture 4.0 with its long gestating comprehensive image manipulation tools as a photoshop competitor.
Adobe has way more to lose in that fight than apple does.
I do not love Flash - I agree that it crashes a lot and doesn't seem to work well at all with Chrome. But its a reality of hte internet so it should be on the iPad..
Serial port and parallel port were a reality. Floppy drives were a reality. Someone had to push the progress forward
This is a silly argument. If you get over the critical threshold for devices not supporting Flash, you can bet you'll see these processor-intensive ads in SVG+CSS or something else equally demanding.
In my experience, HTML5, SVG and CSS does not, at the present moment, perform better than their alternatives in Flash. I'm no big fan of Flash, but right now this battle is fought only for ideological reasons.
The problem is that both Flash content AND open web content authored in JavaScript can be optimized by improving the rendering engine. However, if everything is done in Flash, only Adobe can do anything to improve things. If you're using web apps authored in JavaScript and web standards, then new innovations in HTML and JavaScript rendering at Apple and Google and Mozilla and whoever else in the community can compete to deliver improvements.
If you look back, Adobe/Macromedia has done very little to improve core Flash performance over the last decade, certainly nothing like the vast improvement in JavaScript that has exploded in the last few years due to intense competition in the browser arena.
This is a benefit of open source and open standards and should not be overlooked.
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5.
Very funny? Obviously if Flash is phased out, the ads will remain, but in a new form. For now they are predominantly Flash, so for now ClickToFlash is a nice way to not have to deal with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy
Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people.
Did anyone say that anything Adobe has created outside of Flash was bad? I use their entire suite. But you are just padding your argument and the point is entirely invalid. Saying that "This company makes good software; therefore they will resolve the problems in the plugins they release" is ignorant. The fact that Flash has problems to begin with puts into question Adobe's ability to keep it stable. It has a bad reputation for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy
Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now.
...I don't see where you are going with this. A flood of applications would benefit Apple, which would give the company content without the need for the plugin, which is what they want...?
Like I said, CS4 and CS5 are and will be great content creation platforms. But they have nothing to do with Flash on the web browser in the iPhone and iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy
Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash.
Apple doesn't make much off the App Store. They have said themselves that they see it as a way to sell iPhones and iPod Touches... They make much more off of hardware, and I don't see Apple deciding that applications through Adobe's client are selling units in a big way.
Let alone the fact that apps developed in Flash CS5 are native to the devices. They don't use a plugin... Which is the problem being outlined. So, once again, this doesn't apply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy
I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers!
For someone that loves Steve Jobs, I would have figured that you would realize that of ALL companies out there, Apple is the one that came from near-bankruptcy and no exterior development to the fastest growing market share in the technology sector. Heck, plenty of people thought that the App Store would fail miserably because there wasn't a market for - you guessed it - developers to sell to. Oops.
Look, sorry, but Flash will die. It's too dated! No platform like it has stood the test of time, and great things come and go. So long as there is a better or more lucrative platform, it is a matter of time before seasoned devs use a new language and new devs start on fresh ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy
I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
I'm sure they think that they can just axe the loyal customers they have that run OS X just to make a point... Yes, and they won't miss that (presuming income % is equal to market share) 10% cut from their software. Not at all.
I read a post here once that said the USA went from #3 to #28 in terms of speed and as a result, other countries have mobie TV. That said, whomever brings TV non wifi to the mArket first, are going to do very well. For the ipad though and any type of screen device larger than 7", should have the ability to stream videos and that includes the ipad.
The reason the iPhone was and is so great is the app store (which every company is trying to do and most will have one in the next fee years, and two, how easy it was to use the browser. That said, any device that can have a touch GUI similar to the iPhone will do okay. But as I've been saying for a while, we are transitioning into streaming web now and someone is going to do very well once they can offer great speed, battery life and streaming video.
From Apples POV, I still see the lack of flash as a paranoid move in losing iTunes sales of shows that shoud be free. 3 shows for a dollar might work but not $1.00, not when you can getvitvfree from the networks site. Hopefully we'll get there soon.
Flash games for kids is big. But they're for computers, not for phones or pads. They're not designed to work on minimal platforms. Everything else is easy to replace. I other words, no need for Flash in my daily life.
PS: If Photoshop for iPhone is what Flash for iPhone will be. It's all a big joke anyway.
You know what would be cool on the ipad? Little rubber fins going down the back of it do when you place it
flat, it gets a tad cooler and keeps it from moving around when place it flat down. Sometimes though there are fickle things with the iPhone and forums. If you jail break it you can add flash but even cooler is this 3 taps on the surface and you can go up and down very quickly. What I also dislike of the copy and paste is when you are reading and you go to scroll down and it highlights a word thinking you want to copy. Maybe that what Jobs hated but finally gave in. I know a lot of peeps complain about this. You have to wonder why sometimes nd while Apple could put flash on the phone, maybe it would have tripple the qurks.
Probably a year after stepping down, we will get something from Steve, bio?
Serial port and parallel port were a reality. Floppy drives were a reality. Someone had to push the progress forward
true, but then show side by side the new vs. old tech.
When they killed the floppies, the presented the jump drives. Same for USB, DVD, etc. But where is the side-by-side real life test of flash vs. XYZ product/tech/platform? You should only kill the old tech when you have the new in a real, chewable way.
Please, please Apple. Install Flash into the iPad OS. I LOVE those giant web ads that push the content of whatever page I'm at two-thirds of the page down and then back up again. Flash is ever so dreamy!
So let me see if I understand what your saying. If flash goes away so will all the ad banners?
The problem is that both Flash content AND open web content authored in JavaScript can be optimized by improving the rendering engine. However, if everything is done in Flash, only Adobe can do anything to improve things. If you're using web apps authored in JavaScript and web standards, then new innovations in HTML and JavaScript rendering at Apple and Google and Mozilla and whoever else in the community can compete to deliver improvements.
If you look back, Adobe/Macromedia has done very little to improve core Flash performance over the last decade, certainly nothing like the vast improvement in JavaScript that has exploded in the last few years due to intense competition in the browser arena.
This is a benefit of open source and open standards and should not be overlooked.
Very good point there. Plus seeing as many mobile devices, Apple's included run on different CPU architectures such as ARM, and that Flash is barely optimised for Intel, Adobe would need to do a lot of optimising to even get similar performance, let alone better it.
I also think most of those flash performance increases you mention would have come on the hardware side not software.
Apps, games and videos would all be better done in HTML5 or native apps anyway just like Youtube app on iPhone/iPad and various games/apps that have been ported from Flash to the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Remember, this is handheld device, not one constantly plugged in or with a huge battery. A notebook has a huge battery compared to any iDevice yet testing shows that you get 50% more usage without Flash running. This gets worse with slower machines with smaller batteries.
Another good point. I think the rumors of Jobs lambasting Flash to the NYT mentioned him saying that flash would dramatically reduce the battery life. People already complain about the iPhone's battery life, just imagine if that had flash too!
Comments
I use ClickToFlash on my browser. And been using it for some time now. Most of Flash is irritating ads that I do not want to see anyway. Very few real content and it would be easy to port to newer technologies when these content provider see enough browsers demanding it without flash.
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
would be interesting to see how that list looks, especially since youtube has stated HTML5...
i imagine hulu and facebook's games are probably most of the small amount of site content in the top 100 list which are not yet iphone compatible (which should soon be changed).
Or am i missing some more obvious examples here? sure of those top 100 sites, I'm guessing most have flash ads, but apart from that there cant be much else other than video (which can be non-flashified fairly quickly....)
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
im pretty sure apple could take the hit if adobe chose the scorched earth method and stop selling mac software (not that adobe shareholders would accept a huge 20% drop in revenues - adobe management would be out of there ASAP)
apple is a consumer company now, and relies very little on pro users. Plus im pretty sure in a quick period they would release aperture 4.0 with its long gestating comprehensive image manipulation tools as a photoshop competitor.
Adobe has way more to lose in that fight than apple does.
I do not love Flash - I agree that it crashes a lot and doesn't seem to work well at all with Chrome. But its a reality of hte internet so it should be on the iPad..
Serial port and parallel port were a reality. Floppy drives were a reality. Someone had to push the progress forward
This is a silly argument. If you get over the critical threshold for devices not supporting Flash, you can bet you'll see these processor-intensive ads in SVG+CSS or something else equally demanding.
In my experience, HTML5, SVG and CSS does not, at the present moment, perform better than their alternatives in Flash. I'm no big fan of Flash, but right now this battle is fought only for ideological reasons.
The problem is that both Flash content AND open web content authored in JavaScript can be optimized by improving the rendering engine. However, if everything is done in Flash, only Adobe can do anything to improve things. If you're using web apps authored in JavaScript and web standards, then new innovations in HTML and JavaScript rendering at Apple and Google and Mozilla and whoever else in the community can compete to deliver improvements.
If you look back, Adobe/Macromedia has done very little to improve core Flash performance over the last decade, certainly nothing like the vast improvement in JavaScript that has exploded in the last few years due to intense competition in the browser arena.
This is a benefit of open source and open standards and should not be overlooked.
2.8 GHz C2D MBP hits 50% with Flash video.
With the same video it hits less 15% with HTML5.
What does that say about Flahs?
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5.
Very funny? Obviously if Flash is phased out, the ads will remain, but in a new form. For now they are predominantly Flash, so for now ClickToFlash is a nice way to not have to deal with them.
Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people.
Did anyone say that anything Adobe has created outside of Flash was bad? I use their entire suite. But you are just padding your argument and the point is entirely invalid. Saying that "This company makes good software; therefore they will resolve the problems in the plugins they release" is ignorant. The fact that Flash has problems to begin with puts into question Adobe's ability to keep it stable. It has a bad reputation for a reason.
Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now.
...I don't see where you are going with this. A flood of applications would benefit Apple, which would give the company content without the need for the plugin, which is what they want...?
Like I said, CS4 and CS5 are and will be great content creation platforms. But they have nothing to do with Flash on the web browser in the iPhone and iPad.
Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash.
Apple doesn't make much off the App Store. They have said themselves that they see it as a way to sell iPhones and iPod Touches... They make much more off of hardware, and I don't see Apple deciding that applications through Adobe's client are selling units in a big way.
Let alone the fact that apps developed in Flash CS5 are native to the devices. They don't use a plugin... Which is the problem being outlined. So, once again, this doesn't apply.
I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers!
For someone that loves Steve Jobs, I would have figured that you would realize that of ALL companies out there, Apple is the one that came from near-bankruptcy and no exterior development to the fastest growing market share in the technology sector. Heck, plenty of people thought that the App Store would fail miserably because there wasn't a market for - you guessed it - developers to sell to. Oops.
Look, sorry, but Flash will die. It's too dated! No platform like it has stood the test of time, and great things come and go. So long as there is a better or more lucrative platform, it is a matter of time before seasoned devs use a new language and new devs start on fresh ground.
I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
I'm sure they think that they can just axe the loyal customers they have that run OS X just to make a point... Yes, and they won't miss that (presuming income % is equal to market share) 10% cut from their software. Not at all.
Flash=no HTML5=yes
I read a post here once that said the USA went from #3 to #28 in terms of speed and as a result, other countries have mobie TV. That said, whomever brings TV non wifi to the mArket first, are going to do very well. For the ipad though and any type of screen device larger than 7", should have the ability to stream videos and that includes the ipad.
The reason the iPhone was and is so great is the app store (which every company is trying to do and most will have one in the next fee years, and two, how easy it was to use the browser. That said, any device that can have a touch GUI similar to the iPhone will do okay. But as I've been saying for a while, we are transitioning into streaming web now and someone is going to do very well once they can offer great speed, battery life and streaming video.
From Apples POV, I still see the lack of flash as a paranoid move in losing iTunes sales of shows that shoud be free. 3 shows for a dollar might work but not $1.00, not when you can getvitvfree from the networks site. Hopefully we'll get there soon.
1. Banners
2. Games
3. Video (youtube and such)
Flash games for kids is big. But they're for computers, not for phones or pads. They're not designed to work on minimal platforms. Everything else is easy to replace. I other words, no need for Flash in my daily life.
PS: If Photoshop for iPhone is what Flash for iPhone will be. It's all a big joke anyway.
flat, it gets a tad cooler and keeps it from moving around when place it flat down. Sometimes though there are fickle things with the iPhone and forums. If you jail break it you can add flash but even cooler is this 3 taps on the surface and you can go up and down very quickly. What I also dislike of the copy and paste is when you are reading and you go to scroll down and it highlights a word thinking you want to copy. Maybe that what Jobs hated but finally gave in. I know a lot of peeps complain about this. You have to wonder why sometimes nd while Apple could put flash on the phone, maybe it would have tripple the qurks.
Probably a year after stepping down, we will get something from Steve, bio?
U
Serial port and parallel port were a reality. Floppy drives were a reality. Someone had to push the progress forward
true, but then show side by side the new vs. old tech.
When they killed the floppies, the presented the jump drives. Same for USB, DVD, etc. But where is the side-by-side real life test of flash vs. XYZ product/tech/platform? You should only kill the old tech when you have the new in a real, chewable way.
Please, please Apple. Install Flash into the iPad OS. I LOVE those giant web ads that push the content of whatever page I'm at two-thirds of the page down and then back up again. Flash is ever so dreamy!
So let me see if I understand what your saying. If flash goes away so will all the ad banners?
"Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash" Is a well presented example, with a flash video rite in the middle of it.
I would love to see flash go EOL
Flash has not, and will not.
Best reason ever to abandon it.
As if using a proprietary plugin for web content was EVER a good idea..
So let me see if I understand what your saying. If flash goes away so will all the ad banners?
It will take a long time for the majority of worthless ads to be converted into something else. Many will go unaddressed for a long long time.
You'll see new types of ads, based on constantly-improving open standards, that will not crash your browser or whir your macbook fans.
For now, blocking Flash is a great solution.
The problem is that both Flash content AND open web content authored in JavaScript can be optimized by improving the rendering engine. However, if everything is done in Flash, only Adobe can do anything to improve things. If you're using web apps authored in JavaScript and web standards, then new innovations in HTML and JavaScript rendering at Apple and Google and Mozilla and whoever else in the community can compete to deliver improvements.
If you look back, Adobe/Macromedia has done very little to improve core Flash performance over the last decade, certainly nothing like the vast improvement in JavaScript that has exploded in the last few years due to intense competition in the browser arena.
This is a benefit of open source and open standards and should not be overlooked.
Very good point there. Plus seeing as many mobile devices, Apple's included run on different CPU architectures such as ARM, and that Flash is barely optimised for Intel, Adobe would need to do a lot of optimising to even get similar performance, let alone better it.
I also think most of those flash performance increases you mention would have come on the hardware side not software.
Apps, games and videos would all be better done in HTML5 or native apps anyway just like Youtube app on iPhone/iPad and various games/apps that have been ported from Flash to the iPhone.
Remember, this is handheld device, not one constantly plugged in or with a huge battery. A notebook has a huge battery compared to any iDevice yet testing shows that you get 50% more usage without Flash running. This gets worse with slower machines with smaller batteries.
Another good point. I think the rumors of Jobs lambasting Flash to the NYT mentioned him saying that flash would dramatically reduce the battery life. People already complain about the iPhone's battery life, just imagine if that had flash too!
In this whole Apple vs. Adobe battle, I side with Apple because ideologically Apple is right - open standards are better than proprietary ones.
Does any of you guys know, what the folks of AI use to create their timeline-charts?
I mean, it still could be done with Numbers or Excel, but it doesn't look like it.
Any ideas ?