Will Google be able to sue Apple if they ever implement multi-tasking in the iPhone?
There has to be common sense used with these kind of disputes. Android is an evolution of iPhone OS, the next step forward, just as iPhone OS was an evolution over Windows Mobile etc. I imagine Windows Phone 7 will be an evolution over Android. Everyone builds one the basic ideas of others.
Everyone builds off the basic ideas of others. So true and that's the way it should be. Copying, even stealing ideas. Not a problem.
But a patent is not an idea. A patent is not an idea. A patent is not an idea.
A patent is on a method, a process, a technique, an algorithm, a mechanism that implements the idea in a particular novel way.
When you put your finger on the virtual keyboard on an iPhone, a "tab" pops up above your finger with the selected key shown larger, at which time, if you've pressed the wrong key, you can slide your finger in the appropriate direction to find the right key before you make a mistake.
If the HTC phones do that, it is a violation of Apple patents.
There are countless other examples of this type of implementation that would be the subject of the lawsuit.
Do you know if there were any other touch-screen phones (I assume they would have to use capacitance screens) before the iPhone that worked this way - where the character was recorded when you lifted your finger from the screen, and not when you touched the screen with your finger?
I don't know of any, but then again, I'm in America.
BTW, did you have a look at the comments over at engadget. People are just going crazy over the fact that Apple is filing this lawsuit. I mean, ok, some of these patents look rather silly, but overall, they should protect their IP.
There are lots of Apple-haters in geekdom. Not only Engadget, but Gizmodo, and TechCrunch. It's useless to respond more than once in those forums; they're not open to listening or debating.
Your time is better spent responding in more mainstream forums (like WSJ, NYT, AllThingsD, Fortune, Alleyinsider) where some Apple-hating geeks show up to spout their hate, but where the mainstream consumers are more open to hearing out both sides.
I think what Apple has done here is to fire a very broad warning shot to a whole lot of manufacturers, esp. Motorola. I'll bet MOT's lawyers are poring through every word of that filing, looking for where and when the ax could fall.
Or they are the new kid in school, who became instantly popular but caught wrath of the old popular kids, so they decided that they are just gonna beat to a pulp the one who has been picking on them (read: using their IP) the most, hoping that the others then back off.
No matter what happens in life, it always be reduced to playground politics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shubidua
BTW, did you have a look at the comments over at engadget. People are just going crazy over the fact that Apple is filing this lawsuit. I mean, ok, some of these patents look rather silly, but overall, they should protect their IP.
I did not. Too many juvenile emotional responses without substance. AI has its trolls but it's the best low to mid-level tech site I frequent with mature rational members.
Regarding the lawsuit, I don't care either way. Apple has lawyers on retainer and they have allocated so much budget for such fees. If it goes over that it won't be enough to affect the valuation of the company. Overall, people don't seem to care that one billion dollar company drank the milkshake of another billion dollar company. Now, if this were a class action or if Apple were squeezing start ups, then things might be different.
There are lots of Apple-haters in geekdom. Not only Engadget, but Gizmodo, and TechCrunch. It's useless to respond more than once in those forums; they're not open to listening or debating.
Your time is better spent responding in more mainstream forums (like WSJ, NYT, AllThingsD, Fortune, Alleyinsider) where some Apple-hating geeks show up to spout their hate, but where the mainstream consumers are more open to hearing out both sides.
Yeah, I have observed this at well. Thats why I'm only posting here on AI, in general there is a way to get a decent discussion on a topic without to much bias.
Because of how technical the claim gets (about how they coded it basically.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005
Reverse engineering isn't illegal. There's no DMCA issue involved here.
And don't you think Apple (and every corporation with a significant set of patents) has a department that takes apart and tests devices from other companies?
Oh ok, well then yeah that's how they know I guess lol. I didn't know if it was illegal, and even if it was and these companies did have some people doing it, then they wouldn't be able to act on it because they would be admitting they broke the law to get the proof. Guess that doesn't make sense.
If they decompiled the code and saw it matched their own, then boom, right there I agree HTC should be held accountable. If they are using the device and decide it works similarly to theirs, then obviously that's up for some debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton
When you put your finger on the virtual keyboard on an iPhone, a "tab" pops up above your finger with the selected key shown larger, at which time, if you've pressed the wrong key, you can slide your finger in the appropriate direction to find the right key before you make a mistake.
If the HTC phones do that, it is a violation of Apple patents.
There are countless other examples of this type of implementation that would be the subject of the lawsuit.
Well see, you can get that functionality but through different code. I'm not a patent expert and I don't know if it's judged solely on the final outcome, or based on how they got there, know what I mean?
Dude: 260 B market cap is is Taiwaneese Dollars (TWD) not US $..... Your lack of knowledge and ignorance is amazing too. And also 1 USD=31 TWD.... Make sure you know some thing before you call some one ignorant.
Apple is just using HTC as a proxy to get Google. They won't sue Google directly because:
1)Google has the cash reserves to defend themselves for years in court. HTC is a handset maker, where the profit margins are razor thin. HTC does not charge customers a 100% premium like Apple does. 2) Google has their own impressive set of IP, a number of which is utilized by Apple and the iPhone. Removing all the Google applications, IP, and tools from the iPhone would restrict it even more. 3) Google would fight back hard if Apple filed suit against them and, as I said, they have the resources to defend themselves.
Corporate stiff-arm tactics at their finest (or worst).
Apple is just using HTC as a proxy to get Google. They won't sue Google directly because:
1)Google has the cash reserves to defend themselves for years in court. HTC is a handset maker, where the profit margins are razor thin. HTC does not charge customers a 100% premium like Apple does. 2) Google has their own impressive set of IP, a number of which is utilized by Apple and the iPhone. Removing all the Google applications, IP, and tools from the iPhone would restrict it even more. 3) Google would fight back hard if Apple filed suit against them and, as I said, they have the resources to defend themselves.
Corporate stiff-arm tactics at their finest (or worst).
Question then becomes how long can Apple tip-toe around Google before they end up officially drawing them into it? To prove some of the software infringement claims, they'll need to point their finger at Android...
Question then becomes how long can Apple tip-toe around Google before they end up officially drawing them into it? To prove some of the software infringement claims, they'll need to point their finger at Android...
tip toe? Apple went up to the baby bear cub and kicked it and said, hey Googlebear, what do you think of this?
tip toe? Apple went up to the baby bear cub and kicked it and said, hey Googlebear, what do you think of this?
Haha!
Legally they're sneaking around Google because they don't directly name them in the lawsuit. But yes, in reality, Apple's actions do amount to kicking one of Google's little brothers in the balls.
I find it sad the lack of objectivity with certain types of people, especially the ones that come to an Apple-entric forum just to pooh-pooh Apple. How about at least acknowledging the fact that you don't know squat about what Apple, HTC or Palm have stolen or legally obtained.
I've clearly addressed that fact and even acknowledgment that Palm may have a better case against Apple if they tried, yet you feel need to call me and the sane people of this thread "lackey", "idiot", "dimwit" and "preschool crowd." That is a lot personal attacks in one session. Mods don't take kindly to that from fledging posters. I hope you have extra email addresses; you may need them.
objectivity? you mean like this comment? " Originally Posted by solipsism
Possibly, but it also might be because Palm hasn't been successful enough in their stealing of Apple's patents,"
now how do you know that palm has in fact stolen from apple? you don't.
i must include myself in my list of 'idiots, dimwits, and preschoolers' since i was suckered into buying an imac 24" and a 17" macbook pro. are they 'better' not really. are they way overpriced? yes.
and after using them and looking into just how Jobs and apple try and run the company i have decided to not support them anymore. i have moved to ubuntu and will get an android based phone not an iphone. but i still have a look on forums if i have issues with my Macs and to keep up with the latest 'news'.
apple has profited (as have many, many companies) from open source and lenient licensing. otherwise they wouldn't have os x. they would still have that piece of junk os 9 based thing. yet i don't see them being lenient with licensing or giving much back.
Just a correction. Lots of other companies have made touch-screen phones before the iPhone.
It's the multi-touch, among possibly some other things, that they haven't done.
What didn't exist as a mass market phone was anything that was entirely touchscreen. What we had where variants on the Palm/WinMo/BlackBerry model, with a keypad and a smallish screen.
If you'll recall, it was precisely this that Jobs was talking about at the roll out of the iPhone-- that all those buttons, most of which had no purpose most of the time, was a terrible UI choice, and that by making the whole phone the UI you could have model software buttons that changed depending on what task was at hand.
Nokia sues Apple -> "This lawsuit is without merit and Nokia are only doing this out of desperation."
Apple sues HTC -> "HTC need to stop copying Apple! This is an outrage!!!!"
Of course, everyone on here is an expert in patent law so it's cool.
Which people? I'm getting a little tired of this "some people" thing, wherein different people pressed into service to demonstrate collective hypocrisy.
You do realize that there is a record of everything posted, don't you? Editing a comment to change the meaning just isn't going to work.
Here is may original sentence with the original italicization, but text resizing is added to make it easier to comprehend.
yes i do realize that. you show me a post where you use a harsh term like 'stealing' and suggest apple is doing so. i also see that you seem to call most people who speak out against apple as 'odius trolls' or 'trolls'. how many times have you called people 'trolls' or insinuated that?
i wasn't trying to change the meaning just pointing out how pointed your comments are when it comes to apple vs others.
Will Google be able to sue Apple if they ever implement multi-tasking in the iPhone?
There has to be common sense used with these kind of disputes. Android is an evolution of iPhone OS, the next step forward, just as iPhone OS was an evolution over Windows Mobile etc. I imagine Windows Phone 7 will be an evolution over Android. Everyone builds one the basic ideas of others.
The idea that Android is to iPhone as iPhone is to Windows Mobile is ludicrous. The iPhone was a huge departure from smartphones in general, and Windows Mobile phones especially-- with their clumsy desktop UI metaphors and stylus driven UI.
Which people? I'm getting a little tired of this "some people" thing, wherein different people pressed into service to demonstrate collective hypocrisy.
It looks like some people have a problem with nebulous, sweeping generalizations.
objectivity? you mean like this comment? " Originally Posted by solipsism
Possibly, but it also might be because Palm hasn't been successful enough in their stealing of Apple's patents,"
now how do you know that palm has in fact stolen from apple? you don't.
i must include myself in my list of 'idiots, dimwits, and preschoolers' since i was suckered into buying an imac 24" and a 17" macbook pro. are they 'better' not really. are they way overpriced? yes.
and after using them and looking into just how Jobs and apple try and run the company i have decided to not support them anymore. i have moved to ubuntu and will get an android based phone not an iphone. but i still have a look on forums if i have issues with my Macs and to keep up with the latest 'news'.
apple has profited (as have many, many companies) from open source and lenient licensing. otherwise they wouldn't have os x. they would still have that piece of junk os 9 based thing. yet i don't see them being lenient with licensing or giving much back.
I see. So you bought some top end Mac gear (apparently unaware that they were "overpriced"). And then, after dropping a minimum of $3500 you "looked into" how Apple was run and decided it was too dreadful to support.
But you keep abreast of Apple info by registering on an Apple enthusiast site to do literally nothing but rag on Apple and its users.
I often wonder why trolls think they need a little back story to bestow legitimacy? Because legitimacy comes from doing something other than posting nothing but bile.
Comments
Multi-touch existed before the iPhone you know.
Will Google be able to sue Apple if they ever implement multi-tasking in the iPhone?
There has to be common sense used with these kind of disputes. Android is an evolution of iPhone OS, the next step forward, just as iPhone OS was an evolution over Windows Mobile etc. I imagine Windows Phone 7 will be an evolution over Android. Everyone builds one the basic ideas of others.
Everyone builds off the basic ideas of others. So true and that's the way it should be. Copying, even stealing ideas. Not a problem.
But a patent is not an idea. A patent is not an idea. A patent is not an idea.
A patent is on a method, a process, a technique, an algorithm, a mechanism that implements the idea in a particular novel way.
When you put your finger on the virtual keyboard on an iPhone, a "tab" pops up above your finger with the selected key shown larger, at which time, if you've pressed the wrong key, you can slide your finger in the appropriate direction to find the right key before you make a mistake.
If the HTC phones do that, it is a violation of Apple patents.
There are countless other examples of this type of implementation that would be the subject of the lawsuit.
Do you know if there were any other touch-screen phones (I assume they would have to use capacitance screens) before the iPhone that worked this way - where the character was recorded when you lifted your finger from the screen, and not when you touched the screen with your finger?
I don't know of any, but then again, I'm in America.
BTW, did you have a look at the comments over at engadget. People are just going crazy over the fact that Apple is filing this lawsuit. I mean, ok, some of these patents look rather silly, but overall, they should protect their IP.
There are lots of Apple-haters in geekdom. Not only Engadget, but Gizmodo, and TechCrunch. It's useless to respond more than once in those forums; they're not open to listening or debating.
Your time is better spent responding in more mainstream forums (like WSJ, NYT, AllThingsD, Fortune, Alleyinsider) where some Apple-hating geeks show up to spout their hate, but where the mainstream consumers are more open to hearing out both sides.
I think what Apple has done here is to fire a very broad warning shot to a whole lot of manufacturers, esp. Motorola. I'll bet MOT's lawyers are poring through every word of that filing, looking for where and when the ax could fall.
Or they are the new kid in school, who became instantly popular but caught wrath of the old popular kids, so they decided that they are just gonna beat to a pulp the one who has been picking on them (read: using their IP) the most, hoping that the others then back off.
No matter what happens in life, it always be reduced to playground politics.
BTW, did you have a look at the comments over at engadget. People are just going crazy over the fact that Apple is filing this lawsuit. I mean, ok, some of these patents look rather silly, but overall, they should protect their IP.
I did not. Too many juvenile emotional responses without substance. AI has its trolls but it's the best low to mid-level tech site I frequent with mature rational members.
Regarding the lawsuit, I don't care either way. Apple has lawyers on retainer and they have allocated so much budget for such fees. If it goes over that it won't be enough to affect the valuation of the company. Overall, people don't seem to care that one billion dollar company drank the milkshake of another billion dollar company. Now, if this were a class action or if Apple were squeezing start ups, then things might be different.
There are lots of Apple-haters in geekdom. Not only Engadget, but Gizmodo, and TechCrunch. It's useless to respond more than once in those forums; they're not open to listening or debating.
Your time is better spent responding in more mainstream forums (like WSJ, NYT, AllThingsD, Fortune, Alleyinsider) where some Apple-hating geeks show up to spout their hate, but where the mainstream consumers are more open to hearing out both sides.
Yeah, I have observed this at well. Thats why I'm only posting here on AI, in general there is a way to get a decent discussion on a topic without to much bias.
Huh!? Where did you come up with that?
Because of how technical the claim gets (about how they coded it basically.)
Reverse engineering isn't illegal. There's no DMCA issue involved here.
And don't you think Apple (and every corporation with a significant set of patents) has a department that takes apart and tests devices from other companies?
Oh ok, well then yeah that's how they know I guess lol. I didn't know if it was illegal, and even if it was and these companies did have some people doing it, then they wouldn't be able to act on it because they would be admitting they broke the law to get the proof. Guess that doesn't make sense.
If they decompiled the code and saw it matched their own, then boom, right there I agree HTC should be held accountable. If they are using the device and decide it works similarly to theirs, then obviously that's up for some debate.
When you put your finger on the virtual keyboard on an iPhone, a "tab" pops up above your finger with the selected key shown larger, at which time, if you've pressed the wrong key, you can slide your finger in the appropriate direction to find the right key before you make a mistake.
If the HTC phones do that, it is a violation of Apple patents.
There are countless other examples of this type of implementation that would be the subject of the lawsuit.
Well see, you can get that functionality but through different code. I'm not a patent expert and I don't know if it's judged solely on the final outcome, or based on how they got there, know what I mean?
Your lack of knowledge and ignorance given the comment above is amazing.
You do realize that HTC has a 260 Billion dollar market cap as of today.
http://investing.businessweek.com/re...ticker=2498:TT
Dude: 260 B market cap is is Taiwaneese Dollars (TWD) not US $..... Your lack of knowledge and ignorance is amazing too. And also 1 USD=31 TWD.... Make sure you know some thing before you call some one ignorant.
Something like this, you mean?
Seems unrelated.
Hey how's Skype coming along with the 3G thing?
I haven't noticed any updates yet.
You would have to check with them. Likely still not ready.
Which of course still doesn't mean your argument at the time was any more valid than any of your other fantasies. Par for the course.
1)Google has the cash reserves to defend themselves for years in court. HTC is a handset maker, where the profit margins are razor thin. HTC does not charge customers a 100% premium like Apple does. 2) Google has their own impressive set of IP, a number of which is utilized by Apple and the iPhone. Removing all the Google applications, IP, and tools from the iPhone would restrict it even more. 3) Google would fight back hard if Apple filed suit against them and, as I said, they have the resources to defend themselves.
Corporate stiff-arm tactics at their finest (or worst).
Apple is just using HTC as a proxy to get Google. They won't sue Google directly because:
1)Google has the cash reserves to defend themselves for years in court. HTC is a handset maker, where the profit margins are razor thin. HTC does not charge customers a 100% premium like Apple does. 2) Google has their own impressive set of IP, a number of which is utilized by Apple and the iPhone. Removing all the Google applications, IP, and tools from the iPhone would restrict it even more. 3) Google would fight back hard if Apple filed suit against them and, as I said, they have the resources to defend themselves.
Corporate stiff-arm tactics at their finest (or worst).
Question then becomes how long can Apple tip-toe around Google before they end up officially drawing them into it? To prove some of the software infringement claims, they'll need to point their finger at Android...
Question then becomes how long can Apple tip-toe around Google before they end up officially drawing them into it? To prove some of the software infringement claims, they'll need to point their finger at Android...
tip toe? Apple went up to the baby bear cub and kicked it and said, hey Googlebear, what do you think of this?
tip toe? Apple went up to the baby bear cub and kicked it and said, hey Googlebear, what do you think of this?
Haha!
Legally they're sneaking around Google because they don't directly name them in the lawsuit. But yes, in reality, Apple's actions do amount to kicking one of Google's little brothers in the balls.
I find it sad the lack of objectivity with certain types of people, especially the ones that come to an Apple-entric forum just to pooh-pooh Apple. How about at least acknowledging the fact that you don't know squat about what Apple, HTC or Palm have stolen or legally obtained.
I've clearly addressed that fact and even acknowledgment that Palm may have a better case against Apple if they tried, yet you feel need to call me and the sane people of this thread "lackey", "idiot", "dimwit" and "preschool crowd." That is a lot personal attacks in one session. Mods don't take kindly to that from fledging posters. I hope you have extra email addresses; you may need them.
objectivity? you mean like this comment? " Originally Posted by solipsism
Possibly, but it also might be because Palm hasn't been successful enough in their stealing of Apple's patents,"
now how do you know that palm has in fact stolen from apple? you don't.
i must include myself in my list of 'idiots, dimwits, and preschoolers' since i was suckered into buying an imac 24" and a 17" macbook pro. are they 'better' not really. are they way overpriced? yes.
and after using them and looking into just how Jobs and apple try and run the company i have decided to not support them anymore. i have moved to ubuntu and will get an android based phone not an iphone. but i still have a look on forums if i have issues with my Macs and to keep up with the latest 'news'.
apple has profited (as have many, many companies) from open source and lenient licensing. otherwise they wouldn't have os x. they would still have that piece of junk os 9 based thing. yet i don't see them being lenient with licensing or giving much back.
objectivity? you mean like this comment? " Originally Posted by solipsism
Possibly, but it also might be because Palm hasn't been successful enough in their stealing of Apple's patents,"
You do realize that there is a record of everything posted, don't you? Editing a comment to change the meaning just isn't going to work.
Here is may original sentence with the original italicization, but text resizing is added to make it easier to comprehend.
Possibly, but it also might be because Palm hasn't been successful enough in their stealing of Apple's patents, if they are, to make it viable.
Just a correction. Lots of other companies have made touch-screen phones before the iPhone.
It's the multi-touch, among possibly some other things, that they haven't done.
What didn't exist as a mass market phone was anything that was entirely touchscreen. What we had where variants on the Palm/WinMo/BlackBerry model, with a keypad and a smallish screen.
If you'll recall, it was precisely this that Jobs was talking about at the roll out of the iPhone-- that all those buttons, most of which had no purpose most of the time, was a terrible UI choice, and that by making the whole phone the UI you could have model software buttons that changed depending on what task was at hand.
It's funny seeing how some people react to this.
Nokia sues Apple -> "This lawsuit is without merit and Nokia are only doing this out of desperation."
Apple sues HTC -> "HTC need to stop copying Apple! This is an outrage!!!!"
Of course, everyone on here is an expert in patent law so it's cool.
Which people? I'm getting a little tired of this "some people" thing, wherein different people pressed into service to demonstrate collective hypocrisy.
You do realize that there is a record of everything posted, don't you? Editing a comment to change the meaning just isn't going to work.
Here is may original sentence with the original italicization, but text resizing is added to make it easier to comprehend.
yes i do realize that. you show me a post where you use a harsh term like 'stealing' and suggest apple is doing so. i also see that you seem to call most people who speak out against apple as 'odius trolls' or 'trolls'. how many times have you called people 'trolls' or insinuated that?
i wasn't trying to change the meaning just pointing out how pointed your comments are when it comes to apple vs others.
Multi-touch existed before the iPhone you know.
Will Google be able to sue Apple if they ever implement multi-tasking in the iPhone?
There has to be common sense used with these kind of disputes. Android is an evolution of iPhone OS, the next step forward, just as iPhone OS was an evolution over Windows Mobile etc. I imagine Windows Phone 7 will be an evolution over Android. Everyone builds one the basic ideas of others.
The idea that Android is to iPhone as iPhone is to Windows Mobile is ludicrous. The iPhone was a huge departure from smartphones in general, and Windows Mobile phones especially-- with their clumsy desktop UI metaphors and stylus driven UI.
Which people? I'm getting a little tired of this "some people" thing, wherein different people pressed into service to demonstrate collective hypocrisy.
It looks like some people have a problem with nebulous, sweeping generalizations.
objectivity? you mean like this comment? " Originally Posted by solipsism
Possibly, but it also might be because Palm hasn't been successful enough in their stealing of Apple's patents,"
now how do you know that palm has in fact stolen from apple? you don't.
i must include myself in my list of 'idiots, dimwits, and preschoolers' since i was suckered into buying an imac 24" and a 17" macbook pro. are they 'better' not really. are they way overpriced? yes.
and after using them and looking into just how Jobs and apple try and run the company i have decided to not support them anymore. i have moved to ubuntu and will get an android based phone not an iphone. but i still have a look on forums if i have issues with my Macs and to keep up with the latest 'news'.
apple has profited (as have many, many companies) from open source and lenient licensing. otherwise they wouldn't have os x. they would still have that piece of junk os 9 based thing. yet i don't see them being lenient with licensing or giving much back.
I see. So you bought some top end Mac gear (apparently unaware that they were "overpriced"). And then, after dropping a minimum of $3500 you "looked into" how Apple was run and decided it was too dreadful to support.
But you keep abreast of Apple info by registering on an Apple enthusiast site to do literally nothing but rag on Apple and its users.
I often wonder why trolls think they need a little back story to bestow legitimacy? Because legitimacy comes from doing something other than posting nothing but bile.