All this inane discussion about how Apple might implement multitasking and switching...the solution is already out there. Spend five minutes with a Palm Pre and you have a wonderful, elegant and intuitive solution to multitasking.
It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.
What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.
As someone who uses an iPod Touch daily for email, games, web browsing... I don't miss the multitasking that much, sure there are a couple of things that would be okay to have, but I really don't miss it that much!
Android will flail just like other Linux distributions for consumer use. Why? fragmentation, crap ware, viruses... Android has already had it's first exploit. And HTC has already released a phone with mal-ware installed! I know this was probably from a refurbished phone, but it illustrates that handset makers really don't give a shiI what they distribute. Apple does care! The problem is that with Android, the commonality that Google is trying to put together goes against the telecoms desire to have separation from the competition. With out separation, it really does not matter which carrier you go with FTMP. They become irrelevant and as a big multi-national company, irrelevancy is not acceptable, they want power, they want control.
For the iPhone and Touch a non-multitasking configuration like they have is fine by me. Now I will expect multitasking in the iPad as that is more of a working computer. Docs, spreadsheets ...
So let me get this straight... the iPhone doesn't have enough battery power for Flash, but it does for multitasking?
If there's anyone left who truly believes the Flash controversy isn't a blatant war between Apple and Adobe, WAKE UP.
-Clive
Don't confuse the issue.
Jobs made statements about Flash back in 2007, when multitasking wasn't feasible (even running the iPod app when trying to use Safari caused a noticable slow down). Now we're coming up on the 4th HW and OS release of the iPhone.
On top of that it's March 2010 and Adobe still hasn't delivered Flash to the "open" Android platform and Mozilla has disable Flash in Firefox Mobile on Maemo due to performance issues.
So I don't what part of your statement about multitasking as an option has to do with Flash and the battery.
It's interesting that in some of your posts you're trying to prove that the graph is not US only, but global. Then in other posts, you are talking about Apple using only one carrier (which is a US situation). While in other countries iPhone is sold at multiple carriers in one country.
Where did ever try to prove that the graph was global? I recall saying that it did not specify anywhere in the article.
Pandora would be better off as a widget that you could call up and dismiss without ever leaving your application, like dashboard on the Mac.
I agree with this, but that's still a true background process. I wasn't really discussing the GUI for implementing my ideas.
I rather picture an interface similar to safari where one icon represents the number of open and "frozen" apps, including your apple processes such as mail, safari, iPod etc. Clicking this allows you to shift through all of these apps and when you choose a "frozen" app, it simple reloads the page as safari would, rather than the entire code for the application, thus conserving battery life. Similar to safari, the total number of open and "frozen" apps could be capped at some limit which will work with the amount of ram available to the device.
Onto multitasking, I hope it isn't a blanket implementation. At the very least, I want a slider beside each app on the options page to indicate the behavior of that app when you hit the home button. Ideally there would be three options: close, save state, and run in the background.
Any application that needs to "save state" can/should already do this with the callbacks already available in the API.
All this inane discussion about how Apple might implement multitasking and switching...the solution is already out there. Spend five minutes with a Palm Pre and you have a wonderful, elegant and intuitive solution to multitasking.
It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.
As Ireland wrote: Next
I suspect Apple will go with an X in the upper left corner like they did with Safari. As others have noted, the Pre's multitasking is very similar to how Safari currently works. One thing the iPhone does not have is a gesture area below the screen, so the discussion on how to activate Expose seems perfectly reasonable. Home button combos, multitouch gestures, and hot corners are all possibilities. I'm a fan of good design, so I'm very interested in what Apple will choose to do.
Okay, I almost cannot believe that I am doing this but I'll comment here in defence of iGenie. With the statement 'an attempt to divine truth', he was using the word divine in the sense of 'divining the truth', as in water divining, not the spiritual sense. None of us, not even iGenie, would claim that the other divine applies here.
I think that I need to limit my vocabulary around here. Usually, I find that specific words work great to convey specific meanings. Here, however, those words seem to be often misunderstood.
You would just like to think they are, so you cherry-pick the statistics that suit your fantasy. In fact, a story came out just this week about how many analysts are predicting that Apple will eclipse RIM's market share before the end of 2010.
I missed that story. Are the analysts reliable? Got a cite?
And I didn't cherry-pick. The story I based my comments upon has been all over the tech press for a couple of days.
The stagnation of the iPhone market share and the failure to update the OS might be linked, given that other OS's are surging in popularity. I don't know the answer. Others here have a host of explanations as to why Apple is, for example, falling further behind RIM.
I asked what the heck is taking so long in catching up to the competition vis a vis OS capabilities, and pointed out that ground is being lost in the meantime.
Since I've wasted enough time on you as is, and you've completely neglected the actual article in which your whole line of off-topic discussion here could be adequately explained, I'll merely link this;
Now, perhaps you can attempt to live up to your chosen screenname, rather than relying on an extensive vocabulary with which to try to harass others. Read, and try to comprehend.
But the normal shouldn't need to be exposed to all this. They shouldn't need to wonder why an app they were running in the background is no longer running in the background or why they can't run 20 or 30 or 40 apps that may open in a day slow down their system and have the battery last for 3 hours in their pocket before shutting off. People expect it to work and they expect Apple to think about these issues ahead of time.
See, and this is where Apple tries their hardest to make products for even the dumbest of morons. That's not an insult to iphone users or anything, I just see what you're saying as "But there are people really dumb out there and they will complain, so Apple has to consider them first and foremost."
Having a limit to the number of apps one can open at once is exactly the type of thing you'll see. There's no system on earth that allows someone to open an infinite amount of applications, because there's no system on earth with an infinite amount of memory.
If someone can't figure out why their phone is running slow and they have 40 apps running, then screw them. They have no concept of what's happening behind the scenes. Its not their business to know what's happening, but they definitely should accept the limitations of ANY given device.
There is a reasonable way of going about implementing acceptable multitasking, and it won't involve allowing people to open every single app they've ever owned at once. I know a lot of people like the iphone because "it just works" but sooner or later people have to realize what's happening and why their device isn't capable of infinite amounts of processing power.
So basically, having the ability to only open a certain number of apps is NOT a problem, and I don't see people rejecting the iphone or Apple because of it.
Any application that needs to "save state" can/should already do this with the callbacks already available in the API.
*
It's typically not an end user option though, but perhaps it doesn't need to be. What I really want is the choice to exit and close some apps, and have others exit and run in the background when I hit the home button.
Either way, I'm probably going to jailbreak my iPhone if I get an iPad (I'm tethering to my iPhone, whether Jobs endorses it or not), so I will have multitasking if i want it. I'd much rather have a solution straight from Apple though.
I've addressed this point before... This is exactly how Apple separates themselves from the competition... For two years people said that without cut/copy/paste the iPhone was dead....in OS3 they implemented it better than any other smart phone. They do the R&D until they figure out the best solution. I'm sure multi-tasking will be done in the same manner....
So?.i"Genius" you still haven?t answered OUR question?Why do you troll? Did you get duped into buying a Droid and this is how you vent all of your anger?
Apple sucks!! Apple sucks!!! There, there iGenius?. I?m sure by 2011 Google should upgrade your phone!
I own an iPhone. I am disappointed at the lack of capabilities. I come from years of owning pocket computers, most recently a Treo prior to the iPhone. I was shocked that the iPhone neglects basic stuff that Palm implemented over a decade ago.
Forgive me for trying to be objective. Please stop making incorrect assumptions, especially about me.
The example that they gave of 'economic growth of less than 1% per year" seems exactly analogous to the current state of the iPhone. Where have I gone wrong?
I own an iPhone. I am disappointed at the lack of capabilities. I come from years of owning pocket computers, most recently a Treo prior to the iPhone. I was shocked that the iPhone neglects basic stuff that Palm implemented over a decade ago.
Forgive me for trying to be objective. Please stop making incorrect assumptions, especially about me.
I'm sorry, you're right. I falsely assumed you were a bitter Droid owner....Now your attitude REALLY makes sense?To be a fan of Palm and to have to watch their complete and total implosion when the Pre and Pixi had so many good ideas? You poor thing iGenius! I really pity you.
See, and this is where Apple tries their hardest to make products for even the dumbest of morons. That's not an insult to iphone users or anything, I just see what you're saying as "But there are people really dumb out there and they will complain, so Apple has to consider them first and foremost."
It is an insult because you just referred to my mother as "dumb" and a "moron" simply because she doesn't care about finding with gadgets. She has has plenty of other skills and advanced degrees, though not in computer science. She doesn't care about or need to know how every app will affect her iPhone, she only needs to know that it will work as advertised so she can focus on the other things in life that do matter to her.
Apple didn't revitalize the smartphone industry and make every mobile OS maker switch gears to follow Apple's lead because they were making fisher price toys. Cars with automatic transmissions weren't designed for people who are too stupid to learn to drive a manual. Restaurants weren't created for people who are too dumb to cook for themselves.
News just reported the smartphone market grew 37% last year.
APPLE iPhone grew 97%.
Stagnant. Really.
Not to cause an argument but your statement is a half-truth. Yes the iPhone percentages did grow for Apple but during the last quarter Android saw the largest growth overall in the smartphone market.
I couldn't care less what is being said on this thread. I'm just glad that multitasking is coming. It is blantantly missing and the iPhone would lose marketshare. Hopefully they clean up the rest of the OS and have a proper PNS that doesn't get in the way and you can see the history of those you missed.
I like Dilger's posts but didn't he speak against this in his posts and on the Tech Night Owl? Yes, I also read Roughly Drafted as well. Good read.
Comments
It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.
As Ireland wrote: Next
What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.
As someone who uses an iPod Touch daily for email, games, web browsing... I don't miss the multitasking that much, sure there are a couple of things that would be okay to have, but I really don't miss it that much!
Android will flail just like other Linux distributions for consumer use. Why? fragmentation, crap ware, viruses... Android has already had it's first exploit. And HTC has already released a phone with mal-ware installed! I know this was probably from a refurbished phone, but it illustrates that handset makers really don't give a shiI what they distribute. Apple does care! The problem is that with Android, the commonality that Google is trying to put together goes against the telecoms desire to have separation from the competition. With out separation, it really does not matter which carrier you go with FTMP. They become irrelevant and as a big multi-national company, irrelevancy is not acceptable, they want power, they want control.
For the iPhone and Touch a non-multitasking configuration like they have is fine by me. Now I will expect multitasking in the iPad as that is more of a working computer. Docs, spreadsheets ...
KRR
This was inevitable. More RAM and faster processors will make this a sweet function.
Do you think that the new OS will perform poorly on the current hardware?
So let me get this straight... the iPhone doesn't have enough battery power for Flash, but it does for multitasking?
If there's anyone left who truly believes the Flash controversy isn't a blatant war between Apple and Adobe, WAKE UP.
-Clive
Don't confuse the issue.
Jobs made statements about Flash back in 2007, when multitasking wasn't feasible (even running the iPod app when trying to use Safari caused a noticable slow down). Now we're coming up on the 4th HW and OS release of the iPhone.
On top of that it's March 2010 and Adobe still hasn't delivered Flash to the "open" Android platform and Mozilla has disable Flash in Firefox Mobile on Maemo due to performance issues.
So I don't what part of your statement about multitasking as an option has to do with Flash and the battery.
It's interesting that in some of your posts you're trying to prove that the graph is not US only, but global. Then in other posts, you are talking about Apple using only one carrier (which is a US situation). While in other countries iPhone is sold at multiple carriers in one country.
Where did ever try to prove that the graph was global? I recall saying that it did not specify anywhere in the article.
Pandora would be better off as a widget that you could call up and dismiss without ever leaving your application, like dashboard on the Mac.
I agree with this, but that's still a true background process. I wasn't really discussing the GUI for implementing my ideas.
I rather picture an interface similar to safari where one icon represents the number of open and "frozen" apps, including your apple processes such as mail, safari, iPod etc. Clicking this allows you to shift through all of these apps and when you choose a "frozen" app, it simple reloads the page as safari would, rather than the entire code for the application, thus conserving battery life. Similar to safari, the total number of open and "frozen" apps could be capped at some limit which will work with the amount of ram available to the device.
get off your holier-than-thou-quest for DIVINE truth high horse....
You misunderstand my usage of the word divine. It had nothing whatsoever do do with any deity.
I was using it as a verb and not as an adjective. If it would help, I could use smaller words.
Onto multitasking, I hope it isn't a blanket implementation. At the very least, I want a slider beside each app on the options page to indicate the behavior of that app when you hit the home button. Ideally there would be three options: close, save state, and run in the background.
Any application that needs to "save state" can/should already do this with the callbacks already available in the API.
*
All this inane discussion about how Apple might implement multitasking and switching...the solution is already out there. Spend five minutes with a Palm Pre and you have a wonderful, elegant and intuitive solution to multitasking.
It's simple. It's brilliant. It works. Flick up to see your apps (they show up as smaller windows), swipe left or right to slide through the apps, flick up on an app to kill it, click an app to have it come to full screen.
As Ireland wrote: Next
I suspect Apple will go with an X in the upper left corner like they did with Safari. As others have noted, the Pre's multitasking is very similar to how Safari currently works. One thing the iPhone does not have is a gesture area below the screen, so the discussion on how to activate Expose seems perfectly reasonable. Home button combos, multitouch gestures, and hot corners are all possibilities. I'm a fan of good design, so I'm very interested in what Apple will choose to do.
Okay, I almost cannot believe that I am doing this but I'll comment here in defence of iGenie. With the statement 'an attempt to divine truth', he was using the word divine in the sense of 'divining the truth', as in water divining, not the spiritual sense. None of us, not even iGenie, would claim that the other divine applies here.
I think that I need to limit my vocabulary around here. Usually, I find that specific words work great to convey specific meanings. Here, however, those words seem to be often misunderstood.
They are not.
You would just like to think they are, so you cherry-pick the statistics that suit your fantasy. In fact, a story came out just this week about how many analysts are predicting that Apple will eclipse RIM's market share before the end of 2010.
I missed that story. Are the analysts reliable? Got a cite?
And I didn't cherry-pick. The story I based my comments upon has been all over the tech press for a couple of days.
The stagnation of the iPhone market share and the failure to update the OS might be linked, given that other OS's are surging in popularity. I don't know the answer. Others here have a host of explanations as to why Apple is, for example, falling further behind RIM.
I asked what the heck is taking so long in catching up to the competition vis a vis OS capabilities, and pointed out that ground is being lost in the meantime.
Since I've wasted enough time on you as is, and you've completely neglected the actual article in which your whole line of off-topic discussion here could be adequately explained, I'll merely link this;
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...5&postcount=42
Now, perhaps you can attempt to live up to your chosen screenname, rather than relying on an extensive vocabulary with which to try to harass others. Read, and try to comprehend.
But the normal shouldn't need to be exposed to all this. They shouldn't need to wonder why an app they were running in the background is no longer running in the background or why they can't run 20 or 30 or 40 apps that may open in a day slow down their system and have the battery last for 3 hours in their pocket before shutting off. People expect it to work and they expect Apple to think about these issues ahead of time.
See, and this is where Apple tries their hardest to make products for even the dumbest of morons. That's not an insult to iphone users or anything, I just see what you're saying as "But there are people really dumb out there and they will complain, so Apple has to consider them first and foremost."
Having a limit to the number of apps one can open at once is exactly the type of thing you'll see. There's no system on earth that allows someone to open an infinite amount of applications, because there's no system on earth with an infinite amount of memory.
If someone can't figure out why their phone is running slow and they have 40 apps running, then screw them. They have no concept of what's happening behind the scenes. Its not their business to know what's happening, but they definitely should accept the limitations of ANY given device.
There is a reasonable way of going about implementing acceptable multitasking, and it won't involve allowing people to open every single app they've ever owned at once. I know a lot of people like the iphone because "it just works" but sooner or later people have to realize what's happening and why their device isn't capable of infinite amounts of processing power.
So basically, having the ability to only open a certain number of apps is NOT a problem, and I don't see people rejecting the iphone or Apple because of it.
Any application that needs to "save state" can/should already do this with the callbacks already available in the API.
*
It's typically not an end user option though, but perhaps it doesn't need to be. What I really want is the choice to exit and close some apps, and have others exit and run in the background when I hit the home button.
Either way, I'm probably going to jailbreak my iPhone if I get an iPad (I'm tethering to my iPhone, whether Jobs endorses it or not), so I will have multitasking if i want it. I'd much rather have a solution straight from Apple though.
I've addressed this point before... This is exactly how Apple separates themselves from the competition... For two years people said that without cut/copy/paste the iPhone was dead....in OS3 they implemented it better than any other smart phone. They do the R&D until they figure out the best solution. I'm sure multi-tasking will be done in the same manner....
So?.i"Genius" you still haven?t answered OUR question?Why do you troll? Did you get duped into buying a Droid and this is how you vent all of your anger?
Apple sucks!! Apple sucks!!!
I own an iPhone. I am disappointed at the lack of capabilities. I come from years of owning pocket computers, most recently a Treo prior to the iPhone. I was shocked that the iPhone neglects basic stuff that Palm implemented over a decade ago.
Forgive me for trying to be objective. Please stop making incorrect assumptions, especially about me.
The market share is stagnant. Since October, Andorid more than doubled, RIM is in first place and pulling away, and iOS gained nothing.
If you don't like stagnant, how about "Peaked"? Or "Moribund"? Or "losing ground"?
Pick any adjective you like, or just redefine any word to suit your liking. But "stagnant" is accurate.
News just reported the smartphone market grew 37% last year.
APPLE iPhone grew 97%.
Stagnant. Really.
The example that they gave of 'economic growth of less than 1% per year" seems exactly analogous to the current state of the iPhone. Where have I gone wrong?
Right there is where you went wrong!
I own an iPhone. I am disappointed at the lack of capabilities. I come from years of owning pocket computers, most recently a Treo prior to the iPhone. I was shocked that the iPhone neglects basic stuff that Palm implemented over a decade ago.
Forgive me for trying to be objective. Please stop making incorrect assumptions, especially about me.
I'm sorry, you're right. I falsely assumed you were a bitter Droid owner....Now your attitude REALLY makes sense?To be a fan of Palm and to have to watch their complete and total implosion when the Pre and Pixi had so many good ideas? You poor thing iGenius! I really pity you.
See, and this is where Apple tries their hardest to make products for even the dumbest of morons. That's not an insult to iphone users or anything, I just see what you're saying as "But there are people really dumb out there and they will complain, so Apple has to consider them first and foremost."
It is an insult because you just referred to my mother as "dumb" and a "moron" simply because she doesn't care about finding with gadgets. She has has plenty of other skills and advanced degrees, though not in computer science. She doesn't care about or need to know how every app will affect her iPhone, she only needs to know that it will work as advertised so she can focus on the other things in life that do matter to her.
Apple didn't revitalize the smartphone industry and make every mobile OS maker switch gears to follow Apple's lead because they were making fisher price toys. Cars with automatic transmissions weren't designed for people who are too stupid to learn to drive a manual. Restaurants weren't created for people who are too dumb to cook for themselves.
News just reported the smartphone market grew 37% last year.
APPLE iPhone grew 97%.
Stagnant. Really.
Not to cause an argument but your statement is a half-truth. Yes the iPhone percentages did grow for Apple but during the last quarter Android saw the largest growth overall in the smartphone market.
I couldn't care less what is being said on this thread. I'm just glad that multitasking is coming. It is blantantly missing and the iPhone would lose marketshare. Hopefully they clean up the rest of the OS and have a proper PNS that doesn't get in the way and you can see the history of those you missed.
I like Dilger's posts but didn't he speak against this in his posts and on the Tech Night Owl? Yes, I also read Roughly Drafted as well. Good read.