... By nature of design Atom is faster than ARM, not just the clock speed, either. ...
This is simply not true. In fact you have it almost precisely backwards.
The *only* way in which the Atom can be considered faster than ARM is by comparing the clock speed, which as anyone can tell you (and you seem to agree), is not a reliable comparison to make between two different types of chips.
In every side by side comparison of real processing power (boot times, calculation times etc.), the ARM chip beats the Atom every single time. This is established fact, whatever you may believe.
1) I made mention of folders and smart folders. The pages are just too tedious. This is especially true on the iPad. I've found myself using the search feature for the first time.
2) Not keen on WiFi sync, and BT sync is a definite no go. It's slow enough as it is with syncing. I'm really hoping for USB3.0 and the next iPhone to handle those faster USB data rates.
3) I haven't printed in so long so that would have likely never crossed my mind.
4) Making the iPod app work more like iTunes looks like something they don't want to do. It would be nice though.
5) Along with better MM integration I'd love for them to adopt a slick system like Dropbox. That works like a Mac app/service should work. Apple has a lot of catching up to do there.
6) If the iPad with an A4 can load and play 720p video hopefully the next iPhone will too, if it gets the A4.
7) This is one I definitely forgot and especially true for the iPad, which is more likely to be a "family" device.
8) That would be nice. I bet an app could do that, too. Just pop it on when you are at a place taking photos.
9)That would be great. Wiping personal data but not the OS so that you can leave the callback message.
Looking over the chip in the iPad 802.11n looks like a possibility this year.
I want profiles and I want the phone to switch between them on a timer.
M-F: 9am to 6pm = WORK PROFILE... No goofy ringtones. Every call just gets a beep.
From MIDNIGHT to 7AM = SILENT PROFILE... The phone does not ring
Every other time = default settings
And give me a button to quickly toggle between them.
As well as a button to quickly toggle between 2G and 3G
I would like to be able to passcode protect certain apps. Anyone who picks up my phone can thumb thru my email? Blech. I know I can protect the whole phone with a passcode, but I find that kind of annoying also. Let me lock my mail.
I want to be able to use multiple pictures for my wallpaper. I should be able to set up a folder of pics and have it cycle between them.
The profiles idea is great. That was one of those trends Apple bucked. One that I wanted but eventually forgot about. It's still one that I'd like now that you mention it.
I'm not sure about the 2G/3G toggle. Back when the iPhone 3G came out I would have loved it but I never change from 3G now and I am not sure that is a common enough to now warrant easier access to that function.
Password protecting certain apps is a unique idea. I've never even heard of that, do any phones offer it? The problem I see is that it may be more granule that Apple typically likes for their consumers. I think a more natural option is to have a global passcode with an option for a guest account with limited access. For the iPad I'd like to see users, as previously mentioned. The only problem I see with users is that to make sure it's running well the user has to logged out, essentially off for that user, for all intents and purposes. This might be okay for the iPad, but not the iPhone, the first consideration of the iPhone OS family.
You've been a member since early 2009 but only have 4 posts. You should post more often, you have good ideas.
Thanks. I was looking for something objective, based upon current netbooks.
If your impression is that your shiny new iPad is better than the old netbooks, then there's nothing I can say.
Except that I was hoping for facts instead of impressions.
Nah, your just being pedantic.
If you know anything at all, you know the kind of objective tests you are asking for are few and far between as well as difficult to do given that each platform uses different chips and operating systems.
If you've actually used a variety of these devices yourself you would also know that in general an iPhone blows any Android device out of the water in terms of percieved responsiveness and speed. Nokia's phones are a distant third. Additionally, if you are reading this thread you are also aware that everyone who has used the iPad and most reviews state quite specifically how amazingly fast it is and how it makes the iPhone look slow in comparison.
So the original statement, that you've wasted several posts whining about and asking for "proof" of, is a perfectly normal, and perfectly reasonable statement to make, but as per your usual modus operandi, you want to make a big deal out of asking for "proof" that you know isn't going to be available in an effort to "win the thread" and make the other guy look foolish.
Maybe if you concentrated more on contributing to the debate instead of trying to make others look bad, people might like you more.
Hopefully OS 4.0 is based on a fast chip like the IPAD
Talk is out that IPHONE 4.0 will be out before WWDC. Could make sense, since this year WWDC is already 2 weeks late and if APPLE wants to see new IPHONE sales in it's second quarter earnings it would have to be available in store by mid june. Keep in mind that IPHONE sales drop considerably in anticipation of the new model.
What about power consumption? If I understood correctly, iPad has huge dual battery pack inside. There is no even remotely way to fit comparable size into iPhone.
That being said, I'm not feeling my iPhone is lacking speed (and I did compare it recently with Nexus One which should be fast beast). In addition, Apple was always less about raw performance, and more about how available performance is utilised.
I'm hoping for revisioned and improved GUI rather than more horse powers... \
This is simply not true. In fact you have it almost precisely backwards.
The *only* way in which the Atom can be considered faster than ARM is by comparing the clock speed, which as anyone can tell you (and you seem to agree), is not a reliable comparison to make between two different types of chips.
In every side by side comparison of real processing power (boot times, calculation times etc.), the ARM chip beats the Atom every single time. This is established fact, whatever you may believe.
I made a very general blanket comment, and we both know that it's never that easy and that you can alway delve deeper. Eveything I've read says differently than your statement. From what I've read, the Cortex-A9 may be the first ARM to best Atom in raw processing power, but Atom still has the Intel magic with core chip features over ARM.
Processing speed is a metric that needs to be accounted for, too. Now, if we account for power usage Atom is a highly inefficient for the performance and if we do speed tests using the same clockspeed chips Atom will lose, but those were't part of the initial discussion.
If you have stats that ARM is besting Atom in every test using please post some links because it means I need to get up to date on this.
If you know anything at all, you know the kind of objective tests you are asking for are few and far between as well as difficult to do given that each platform uses different chips and operating systems.
That's why I was so interested in seeing if the OP had any objective basis at all for his statement.
Yeah, they are going to pull those ms phones out of their asses 4 years too late.
It's pitiful how the windoze crowd still hope MS will somehow make the vapourware that is the courier (another inspired name; fedex and ups are expected to be the main competitors it seems) materialise out of thin air from all the mock ups for this event...
Maybe you have fetish for girlie hygiene products, but I personally do prefer Courier to iPad. Inspired name it isn't. And who cares? I'm going to use it, not to call it out loud around the house.
Courier is promised before the end of the year, but we'll see if they will deliver. Likewise Windows Phone 7. I'm betting there will be oversized Zune HD as well, a different tablet from Courier concept (which is not tablet but, er, booklet anyway). Considering iPad and incoming Android tablets, I'd really be surprised if MS doesn't follow the same path.
Considering 4 years being late, that is nonsense. How late was Apple with iPhone..? How late was Apple with Intel based hardware? One do have good product or don't, previous involvement in that specific market segment (or complete lack of it) is hardly important.
Processing speed is a metric that needs to be accounted for, too. Now, if we account for power usage Atom is a highly inefficient for the performance and if we do speed tests using the same clockspeed chips Atom will lose, but those were't part of the initial discussion.
Do you still claim this is true?
"Netbooks have more performance on paper than the iPad. They have at least 1GB RAM and an Atom CPU over ARm with a faster clock rate, but the reality is they are slower for doing pretty much every comparable task before of the OS and app overhead."
"Apple will provide you any iPad OS software updates that it may release from time to time, up to and including the next major iPad OS software release following the version of iPad OS software that originally shipped from Apple on your iPad, for free.
"For example, if your iPad originally shipped with iPad 3.x software, Apple would provide you with any iPad OS software updates it might release up to and including the iPad 4.x software release. Such updates and releases may not necessarily include all of the new software features that Apple releases for newer iPad models."
Maybe you have fetish for girlie hygiene products, but I personally do prefer Courier to iPad. Inspired name it isn't. And who cares? I'm going to use it, not to call it out loud around the house.
Courier is promised before the end of the year, but we'll see if they will deliver. Likewise Windows Phone 7. I'm betting there will be oversized Zune HD as well, a different tablet from Courier concept (which is not tablet but, er, booklet anyway). Considering iPad and incoming Android tablets, I'd really be surprised if MS doesn't follow the same path.
Hey, I'm a Windows user myself, and really happy with Win 7, but I wouldn't think too much of a CG demo. Anybody can do that. I bet if Apple want to do CG demo they can easily do one that beat Courier hand down. Remember how Surface look great on CG demo? And now where is this great product?
In fact, when Microsoft resorted to CG tactic it make me more suspicious, not encouraging.
"Netbooks have more performance on paper than the iPad. They have at least 1GB RAM and an Atom CPU over ARm with a faster clock rate, but the reality is they are slower for doing pretty much every comparable task before of the OS and app overhead."
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, & yes, for the items you quoted.
Hey, I'm a Windows user myself, and really happy with Win 7, but I wouldn't think too much of a CG demo. Anybody can do that. I bet if Apple want to do CG demo they can do one that beat Courier hand down easily. Remember how Surface look great on CG demo? And now where is this great product?
In fact, when Microsoft resorted to CG tactic it make me more suspicious, not encouraging.
I agree with you completely. CG demo was only a concept demo, not necessarily anything that will be delivered with real Courier at all. Not unlike concept cars, where final product usually don't look much like concept(s).
I expect that real Courier will be based on Win Phone 7 OS, with some optimisation for dual screen approach (I presume that much will remain). It might even turn out to be better in real life than what concept promised, or it might be complete douche - we'll see. But dicing MS out just because you don't like them - plain silly. They did some very nice things recently, in fact all their recent products - Win 7, 2008R2, HyperV... are quite good. And Win Phone 7, likewise, looks promising. Big companies often have a lot of inertia, but my opinion is that MS has managed to start moving away from their old ways and we will see a bit different MS in the following years.
So, I assume that having put up with incredibly dull discussions about why iPhone is crap because it doesn't have multi-tasking, we'll now no doubt have incredibly dull discussions about why they implemented it incorrectly. Or it hurts the battery life. Or it still fails to get you a girlfriend whilst you bang on about multi-tasking!
Exactly. Whine about multitasking...soon they'll whine about the multitasking drain on the battery.
More than any of these I hope and pray that they add Notes.app syncing to MobileMe.
It beggars belief that they can sync Mail, Calendars and Contacts over the air, but not have Notes syncing in the same way.
Actually, To Dos are broken pretty much across the entire Apple line.
They should fix this one at the same time.
iCal To Dos can't be divided into projects, can't include subtasks, and can't even be printed by themselves on a sheet of paper. In the meantime, I know no-one besides Steve Jobs that emails themselves To Do items so they can be stored in their Mail.app Inbox.
Comments
... By nature of design Atom is faster than ARM, not just the clock speed, either. ...
This is simply not true. In fact you have it almost precisely backwards.
The *only* way in which the Atom can be considered faster than ARM is by comparing the clock speed, which as anyone can tell you (and you seem to agree), is not a reliable comparison to make between two different types of chips.
In every side by side comparison of real processing power (boot times, calculation times etc.), the ARM chip beats the Atom every single time. This is established fact, whatever you may believe.
1) I made mention of folders and smart folders. The pages are just too tedious. This is especially true on the iPad. I've found myself using the search feature for the first time.
2) Not keen on WiFi sync, and BT sync is a definite no go. It's slow enough as it is with syncing. I'm really hoping for USB3.0 and the next iPhone to handle those faster USB data rates.
3) I haven't printed in so long so that would have likely never crossed my mind.
4) Making the iPod app work more like iTunes looks like something they don't want to do. It would be nice though.
5) Along with better MM integration I'd love for them to adopt a slick system like Dropbox. That works like a Mac app/service should work. Apple has a lot of catching up to do there.
6) If the iPad with an A4 can load and play 720p video hopefully the next iPhone will too, if it gets the A4.
7) This is one I definitely forgot and especially true for the iPad, which is more likely to be a "family" device.
8) That would be nice. I bet an app could do that, too. Just pop it on when you are at a place taking photos.
9)That would be great. Wiping personal data but not the OS so that you can leave the callback message.
Looking over the chip in the iPad 802.11n looks like a possibility this year.
add this.....
The ability to view encrypted PDF's
I want profiles and I want the phone to switch between them on a timer.
M-F: 9am to 6pm = WORK PROFILE... No goofy ringtones. Every call just gets a beep.
From MIDNIGHT to 7AM = SILENT PROFILE... The phone does not ring
Every other time = default settings
And give me a button to quickly toggle between them.
As well as a button to quickly toggle between 2G and 3G
I would like to be able to passcode protect certain apps. Anyone who picks up my phone can thumb thru my email? Blech. I know I can protect the whole phone with a passcode, but I find that kind of annoying also. Let me lock my mail.
I want to be able to use multiple pictures for my wallpaper. I should be able to set up a folder of pics and have it cycle between them.
The profiles idea is great. That was one of those trends Apple bucked. One that I wanted but eventually forgot about. It's still one that I'd like now that you mention it.
I'm not sure about the 2G/3G toggle. Back when the iPhone 3G came out I would have loved it but I never change from 3G now and I am not sure that is a common enough to now warrant easier access to that function.
Password protecting certain apps is a unique idea. I've never even heard of that, do any phones offer it? The problem I see is that it may be more granule that Apple typically likes for their consumers. I think a more natural option is to have a global passcode with an option for a guest account with limited access. For the iPad I'd like to see users, as previously mentioned. The only problem I see with users is that to make sure it's running well the user has to logged out, essentially off for that user, for all intents and purposes. This might be okay for the iPad, but not the iPhone, the first consideration of the iPhone OS family.
You've been a member since early 2009 but only have 4 posts. You should post more often, you have good ideas.
I believe it is too early for some 4.0 info to come up (since it would certainly leak before the event), but, who knows...
Thanks. I was looking for something objective, based upon current netbooks.
If your impression is that your shiny new iPad is better than the old netbooks, then there's nothing I can say.
Except that I was hoping for facts instead of impressions.
Nah, your just being pedantic.
If you know anything at all, you know the kind of objective tests you are asking for are few and far between as well as difficult to do given that each platform uses different chips and operating systems.
If you've actually used a variety of these devices yourself you would also know that in general an iPhone blows any Android device out of the water in terms of percieved responsiveness and speed. Nokia's phones are a distant third. Additionally, if you are reading this thread you are also aware that everyone who has used the iPad and most reviews state quite specifically how amazingly fast it is and how it makes the iPhone look slow in comparison.
So the original statement, that you've wasted several posts whining about and asking for "proof" of, is a perfectly normal, and perfectly reasonable statement to make, but as per your usual modus operandi, you want to make a big deal out of asking for "proof" that you know isn't going to be available in an effort to "win the thread" and make the other guy look foolish.
Maybe if you concentrated more on contributing to the debate instead of trying to make others look bad, people might like you more.
Hopefully OS 4.0 is based on a fast chip like the IPAD
Talk is out that IPHONE 4.0 will be out before WWDC. Could make sense, since this year WWDC is already 2 weeks late and if APPLE wants to see new IPHONE sales in it's second quarter earnings it would have to be available in store by mid june. Keep in mind that IPHONE sales drop considerably in anticipation of the new model.
What about power consumption? If I understood correctly, iPad has huge dual battery pack inside. There is no even remotely way to fit comparable size into iPhone.
That being said, I'm not feeling my iPhone is lacking speed (and I did compare it recently with Nexus One which should be fast beast). In addition, Apple was always less about raw performance, and more about how available performance is utilised.
I'm hoping for revisioned and improved GUI rather than more horse powers...
This is simply not true. In fact you have it almost precisely backwards.
The *only* way in which the Atom can be considered faster than ARM is by comparing the clock speed, which as anyone can tell you (and you seem to agree), is not a reliable comparison to make between two different types of chips.
In every side by side comparison of real processing power (boot times, calculation times etc.), the ARM chip beats the Atom every single time. This is established fact, whatever you may believe.
I made a very general blanket comment, and we both know that it's never that easy and that you can alway delve deeper. Eveything I've read says differently than your statement. From what I've read, the Cortex-A9 may be the first ARM to best Atom in raw processing power, but Atom still has the Intel magic with core chip features over ARM.
Processing speed is a metric that needs to be accounted for, too. Now, if we account for power usage Atom is a highly inefficient for the performance and if we do speed tests using the same clockspeed chips Atom will lose, but those were't part of the initial discussion.
If you have stats that ARM is besting Atom in every test using please post some links because it means I need to get up to date on this.
Besides the link bkerkay supplied the rest are pretty much googlable.
His link said nothing about the point you advanced.
I would have been surprised had you come up with any cites.
His link said nothing about the point you advanced.
I would have been surprised had you come up with any cites.
As I would have been surprised if you actually looked any of this easily found info that I gave you.
If you know anything at all, you know the kind of objective tests you are asking for are few and far between as well as difficult to do given that each platform uses different chips and operating systems.
That's why I was so interested in seeing if the OP had any objective basis at all for his statement.
Yeah, they are going to pull those ms phones out of their asses 4 years too late.
It's pitiful how the windoze crowd still hope MS will somehow make the vapourware that is the courier (another inspired name; fedex and ups are expected to be the main competitors it seems) materialise out of thin air from all the mock ups for this event...
Maybe you have fetish for girlie hygiene products, but I personally do prefer Courier to iPad. Inspired name it isn't. And who cares? I'm going to use it, not to call it out loud around the house.
Courier is promised before the end of the year, but we'll see if they will deliver. Likewise Windows Phone 7. I'm betting there will be oversized Zune HD as well, a different tablet from Courier concept (which is not tablet but, er, booklet anyway). Considering iPad and incoming Android tablets, I'd really be surprised if MS doesn't follow the same path.
Considering 4 years being late, that is nonsense. How late was Apple with iPhone..? How late was Apple with Intel based hardware? One do have good product or don't, previous involvement in that specific market segment (or complete lack of it) is hardly important.
Processing speed is a metric that needs to be accounted for, too. Now, if we account for power usage Atom is a highly inefficient for the performance and if we do speed tests using the same clockspeed chips Atom will lose, but those were't part of the initial discussion.
Do you still claim this is true?
"Netbooks have more performance on paper than the iPad. They have at least 1GB RAM and an Atom CPU over ARm with a faster clock rate, but the reality is they are slower for doing pretty much every comparable task before of the OS and app overhead."
I don't understand how anyone could think Apple won't give this update to existing iPad users for free.
It is free for all iPad users.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...s_updates.html
"Apple will provide you any iPad OS software updates that it may release from time to time, up to and including the next major iPad OS software release following the version of iPad OS software that originally shipped from Apple on your iPad, for free.
"For example, if your iPad originally shipped with iPad 3.x software, Apple would provide you with any iPad OS software updates it might release up to and including the iPad 4.x software release. Such updates and releases may not necessarily include all of the new software features that Apple releases for newer iPad models."
Maybe you have fetish for girlie hygiene products, but I personally do prefer Courier to iPad. Inspired name it isn't. And who cares? I'm going to use it, not to call it out loud around the house.
Courier is promised before the end of the year, but we'll see if they will deliver. Likewise Windows Phone 7. I'm betting there will be oversized Zune HD as well, a different tablet from Courier concept (which is not tablet but, er, booklet anyway). Considering iPad and incoming Android tablets, I'd really be surprised if MS doesn't follow the same path.
Hey, I'm a Windows user myself, and really happy with Win 7, but I wouldn't think too much of a CG demo. Anybody can do that. I bet if Apple want to do CG demo they can easily do one that beat Courier hand down. Remember how Surface look great on CG demo? And now where is this great product?
In fact, when Microsoft resorted to CG tactic it make me more suspicious, not encouraging.
Do you still claim this is true?
"Netbooks have more performance on paper than the iPad. They have at least 1GB RAM and an Atom CPU over ARm with a faster clock rate, but the reality is they are slower for doing pretty much every comparable task before of the OS and app overhead."
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, & yes, for the items you quoted.
Hey, I'm a Windows user myself, and really happy with Win 7, but I wouldn't think too much of a CG demo. Anybody can do that. I bet if Apple want to do CG demo they can do one that beat Courier hand down easily. Remember how Surface look great on CG demo? And now where is this great product?
In fact, when Microsoft resorted to CG tactic it make me more suspicious, not encouraging.
I agree with you completely. CG demo was only a concept demo, not necessarily anything that will be delivered with real Courier at all. Not unlike concept cars, where final product usually don't look much like concept(s).
I expect that real Courier will be based on Win Phone 7 OS, with some optimisation for dual screen approach (I presume that much will remain). It might even turn out to be better in real life than what concept promised, or it might be complete douche - we'll see. But dicing MS out just because you don't like them - plain silly. They did some very nice things recently, in fact all their recent products - Win 7, 2008R2, HyperV... are quite good. And Win Phone 7, likewise, looks promising. Big companies often have a lot of inertia, but my opinion is that MS has managed to start moving away from their old ways and we will see a bit different MS in the following years.
So, I assume that having put up with incredibly dull discussions about why iPhone is crap because it doesn't have multi-tasking, we'll now no doubt have incredibly dull discussions about why they implemented it incorrectly. Or it hurts the battery life. Or it still fails to get you a girlfriend whilst you bang on about multi-tasking!
Exactly. Whine about multitasking...soon they'll whine about the multitasking drain on the battery.
Did I miss anything?
More than any of these I hope and pray that they add Notes.app syncing to MobileMe.
It beggars belief that they can sync Mail, Calendars and Contacts over the air, but not have Notes syncing in the same way.
Annoys the hell out of me that something so simple and yet so valuable hasn't been done.
More than any of these I hope and pray that they add Notes.app syncing to MobileMe.
It beggars belief that they can sync Mail, Calendars and Contacts over the air, but not have Notes syncing in the same way.
Actually, To Dos are broken pretty much across the entire Apple line.
They should fix this one at the same time.
iCal To Dos can't be divided into projects, can't include subtasks, and can't even be printed by themselves on a sheet of paper. In the meantime, I know no-one besides Steve Jobs that emails themselves To Do items so they can be stored in their Mail.app Inbox.