May be true. However, I believe SJ is saying the Apple's App Store, you know, the one branded APPLE, the one that draws revenue for APPLE, is not in the business of serving porn.
Since all apps for iPod Touch/iPhone goes through the App Store, he's simply saying that Apple doesn't want to get into the porn business by allowing unsigned apps.
Apple doesn't make money from the porn you view through Safari on the iPhone. It DOES make money from the sale of apps in THEIR App Store.
Technically you are right, however, from end-users point of view, outcome is pretty much the same. Only problem here for me is, the way SJ is presenting it, unaware people might believe that iPhone OS platform is clean of porn and as such suitable for kids without any scrutiny, which is sort of another reality distortion scenario.
May be true. However, I believe SJ is saying the Apple's App Store, you know, the one branded APPLE, the one that draws revenue for APPLE, is not in the business of serving porn.
Since all apps for iPod Touch/iPhone goes through the App Store, he's simply saying that Apple doesn't want to get into the porn business by allowing unsigned apps.
Apple doesn't make money from the porn you view through Safari on the iPhone. It DOES make money from the sale of apps in THEIR App Store.
But why the jab at Android? He could have just stopped at exactly what you said. "The iPhone/iPod/iPad does not allow for unsigned apps at this time". There, answers the question plain and simple.
An unsigned app means an app that does not show up in the App Store or Market, or whatever store. All apps there are signed apps. It's one where the developer creates and puts the actual file itself on a website for you to download and install yourself. So in a way, your argument that the App Store doesn't allow for porn (in the context of the question asked) doesn't make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooso
No, no, no - that's why Safari on the iPhone doesn't have flash - all the porn sites use flash
Good thing that Safari can render good, olde fashion JPEG, GIFs, and any other types of picture files. Porn doesn't have to move to be porn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilogic
Or you can read it as: hey if you open your store to unsigned apps, then it can be really distracting to many of our customers. Many of our customers are young children who have iPod Touches, we want our devices to be family friendly, unsigned apps are the doorway to porn apps, we will not risk everything for some people.
You can, and that might have really be what he's getting at. But a simple "no, not at this time" to the question would have sufficed.
What you fail to realize is that the children you speak of already find porn via other means (again, Safari) on Apple products anyway. I'm sure there are plenty of iPhone/iPod optimized porn sites that require no authentication of age.
The "porn" that Steve Jobs mentions is an app for another App Store, MiKandi. This requires you to go through the usual account creation steps (need valid e-mail address, etc). It's not just a ready-to-go porn app that you can accidentally download. Even opening it doesn't show porn right away, as it's an app to its own store.
This means that the really young children using Apple products will not understand how to get to it. And the ones that can create the accounts are probably looking at porn already. It's a moot point he's trying to make and it's pure arrogance.
Only problem here for me is, the way SJ is presenting it, unaware people might believe that iPhone OS platform is clean of porn and as such suitable for kids without any scrutiny, which is sort of another reality distortion scenario.
Apple can only do so much. Apple decided PORN or adult sites, or some other applications could adversely effect their goals, or cause bad publicity. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy or whatever other charges thrown here.
If parents or adults responsible with minors under their supervision abdicate their duty to supervise their charge, no effort by Apple or any other company will solve what you consider a threat.
This means that the really young children using Apple products will not understand how to get to it. And the ones that can create the accounts are probably looking at porn already. It's a moot point he's trying to make and it's pure arrogance.
SJ is well aware Android is the only platform capable of competing with iPhone in the same market segment ground (high-end consumers, gadget lovers...).
Palm is all but dead, RIM is much more into corporate waters... WP7 is, well, still out of any picture. Nokia is more into lower-end market, unless they change something dramatically... so what remains is Android.
And Android ecosystem is progressing at accelerated pace. I was checking anandtech.com this morning for my morning-tea dose of IT news, and this article got my attention:
To resume article (quote): "Apple has long dismissed Android, stating that it simply doesn't have enough apps to compete with the iPhone. That's quickly changing though. In July 2009 Google's Android Market was only adding about 1,500 apps a month. That number has steadily soared upwards and last month, it added 9,330 new apps."
If they continue this growth, apps count will become pointless - even if Apple apps library continue their growth, difference between 200,000 and 100,000 (2:1) is much less pronounced than difference between 100,000 and 10,000 (10:1).
And because of all that simple math, even if he would never admit that, SJ is feeling pressure from Android and is/will be trying to slow them down in every way possible - by suing Android phone manufacturers, accusing them of Porn... anything that might work. I don't think it is much different tactics from how Apple was fighting Windows regarding their personal computers platforms, albeit Apple is entering this new battle in much better position than their PC position was.
I'm wondering how much thought off this little diversion is. While there is a number of kids who might get an iPhone or Android phone from their parents, I don't think number is that high. Majority of kids will get iPod anyway, being cheaper, and Android hasn't got MP3 player-only device out there. On the other hand, number of young people capable of purchasing their own smartphone is much higher, and them actually might be attracted to Android by this "negative advertising" from SJ. I know I would
Or maybe SJ is fearing soon enough some Android phones might be available for the price of iPod Touch and parents might consider them, being able to do mostly everything iPod Touch does, with benefit of being able to call kids (and other way around) if occasion arise? I'm not parent yet, but majority of my colleagues and friends feel better knowing their kids can call in case of any emergency, and they can check on their kids any time of the day.
Apple can only do so much. Apple decided PORN or adult sites, or some other applications could adversely effect their goals, or cause bad publicity. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy or whatever other charges thrown here.
If parents or adults responsible with minors under their supervision abdicate their duty to supervise their charge, no effort by Apple or any other company will solve what you consider a threat.
CGC
Well, Apple could build some sort of user-definable content filtering into iPhone's Safari... something parents could set and password protect. It can't be 100% successful, but could minimize the "damage"... now for me, that would be much better (and respect-worthy) effort than just pointing fingers at competition.
Well, Apple could build some sort of user-definable content filtering into iPhone's Safari... something parents could set and password protect. It can't be 100% successful, but could minimize the "damage"...
I thought Apple did? I remember them talking about parental control. I thought they did this as part of their plan to have various ratings...
Personally though, I am more into exposure to adult content, especially with adult guidance -- not viewing adult sites or videos together, that would be embarassing to the young person. What I am more interested with is the inculcation of basic moral code, the sense of understanding right and wrong and code of ethics.
My parents were not too much into lectures about the above. They led by example. Also, when I was a child, I was punished when I had to be. There was not artificial rewards when youd did good. Neither did they withold their love even when you misbehaved.
It was from such upbringing that made me evolve my own "moral compass" as I matured.
Personally, I consider the family dynamics, more than anything that could make a difference -- not technological fixes.
Good thing nobody told Steve that porn is readily accessible on mobile Safari. There are probably even iPhone optimized sites. Then he would have had to remove Safari altogether.
Apple already gives parents the power to disable Safari, so no need to be worried about a problem that doesn't exist
Quote:
The Disneyfication of Apple continues unabated.
Ya know, some people want the ability to control their experience. If your not one of them, go knock yourself out with one of the plethora of other devices where anything goes. Apple has been extremely consistent in their approach and philosophy - there is nothing new here. Why people who are so torqued out about this continually purchase Apple products or hang out in Apple forums is beyond me
Or maybe SJ is fearing soon enough some Android phones might be available for the price of iPod Touch and parents might consider them, being able to do mostly everything iPod Touch does, with benefit of being able to call kids (and other way around) if occasion arise? I'm not parent yet, but majority of my colleagues and friends feel better knowing their kids can call in case of any emergency, and they can check on their kids any time of the day.
Every Android phone has the same requirement for a data plan that costs the same as the iPhone. That's the real barrier to entry, not the cost of the device. Until that changes, I don't see the iPod touch (or now iPad) being threatened for kids vs. a smartphone any time soon.
And people joked about 10,000 fart apps on the iPhone - has anyone pushing app numbers for Android actually taken a moment to browse through the Android app catalog(s)? If you toss out multiple versions of apps caused by the fragmentation of the OS/hardware, many of these other apps are no better than the "fart apps" that were universally derided here for the longest time
Jobs responded to Ryan Block of gdgt by noting that there is a "porn store" for Google's Android mobile operating system, Apple's chief competitor in the mobile device and application space. "You can download it, your kids can download it," the CEO said. "That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to."
To me thats a really stupid comment to make. Who made Apple to government of what you can and can't access on your own phone! Saying it's because they wan't to keep out virus's etc would be a reasonable argument, but taking an opinion that people shouldn't do certain things when there legal then putting restrictions in products for that is a bit wrong.
I guess I would agree that Quattro was a better buy, especially considering the price difference, For some reason, I hadn't heard of them before Apple bought them, and I am still having a hard time finding information about them, I was just going based on what you said. As yet, I can't find any good traffic or revenue information. I did find that AdMob had served 7+ billion ads (http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2009/11/04/4462302.htm), but I can't find a similar figure for Quattro.
Try searching for 'Quattro Wireless' and be prepared to dig, 100,000 business/tech blogs announcing the exact same headline and feature for Apple's acquisition, have thrown up a fair amount of search chaff.
It disables safari. Other apps can do more nuanced Safari restrictions too.
If there's "explicit" content on the store - what do I care - let the Quakers have their parental controls enabled as long as it doesn't prevent the rest of us from getting it - who cares. Oh right, open source software is the only "right" software in the universe and everyone should give Richard Stallman blowjobs. Whatever.
Do they work?
This is just off the top of my head as a potential workaround... but couldn't a crafty teen wipe their iPhone on another user account or friends or school lab, go porno crazy, then re-sync with their own iTunes data before Mom & Dad find out?
Does a parental hardened Mac still boot of a portable drive?
You might of confused me with some sort of hippy, I'm not mr. open source with is unfortunate, because I have expensive tastes.
Try searching for 'Quattro Wireless' and be prepared to dig, 100,000 business/tech blogs announcing the exact same headline and feature for Apple's acquisition, have thrown up a fair amount of search chaff.
I'll do you one better:
quattro wireless -apple
It takes out any page that mentions Apple. I still haven't found good information yet. They're not much older of a company.
A porn store on Android "that your kids can get to".
I love everything that comes out of Steve's mouth. Android is now known as the Porn phone. Nice jab!
yea Jobs is always so highly accurate and intelligent - never sounding childish and ignorant. I guess he doesn't feel so confident sometimes and needs to take jabs.
Android is what's known as open source... which means you can do a ton more with it than an iPhone... Porn apps included!!! This is nothing new.
Not sure if you got the intent from my post... I was in no way (shape, nor form) questioning why flash doesn't exist on Apples mobile devices... I have no love for the poorly written plugin and as a Mac user why would I? Adobe hasn't proven it can write an acceptable FLASH plugin for "OS X" why on earth should Apple allow the garbage propagate any further, especially if it's in a position to stop it.
As a newer Apple OS X user, I am appalled at Flashes performance on OS X. It was a pain and a hog in the MS world. But when a Flash Game (with no animations) takes up MORE RESOURCES than a fully rendered OpenGL 3-D MMO (World of Warcraft) - something is VERY, VERY wrong with Flash.
Not completely true, as the early adopters get screwed again -- no OS 4.0 for you original 2007 iPhone owners... It SHOULD be supported, even if it is with less feature support!
Not completely true, as the early adopters get screwed again -- no OS 4.0 for you original 2007 iPhone owners... It SHOULD be supported, even if it is with less feature support!
Are you being serious or sarcastic? I hope the latter.
Comments
It seemed like a good 'hook' to hang my hat on, that's all.
A thousand double entendre are going through my head at the moment, but I shall stay silent!
And every 14 year old boy in the country is now trying to convince his parents to buy him one - for the articles!
You forgot to mention that every 18+ male will buy it - for the articles!
a thousand double entendre are going through my head at the moment, but i shall stay silent!
..
May be true. However, I believe SJ is saying the Apple's App Store, you know, the one branded APPLE, the one that draws revenue for APPLE, is not in the business of serving porn.
Since all apps for iPod Touch/iPhone goes through the App Store, he's simply saying that Apple doesn't want to get into the porn business by allowing unsigned apps.
Apple doesn't make money from the porn you view through Safari on the iPhone. It DOES make money from the sale of apps in THEIR App Store.
Technically you are right, however, from end-users point of view, outcome is pretty much the same. Only problem here for me is, the way SJ is presenting it, unaware people might believe that iPhone OS platform is clean of porn and as such suitable for kids without any scrutiny, which is sort of another reality distortion scenario.
May be true. However, I believe SJ is saying the Apple's App Store, you know, the one branded APPLE, the one that draws revenue for APPLE, is not in the business of serving porn.
Since all apps for iPod Touch/iPhone goes through the App Store, he's simply saying that Apple doesn't want to get into the porn business by allowing unsigned apps.
Apple doesn't make money from the porn you view through Safari on the iPhone. It DOES make money from the sale of apps in THEIR App Store.
But why the jab at Android? He could have just stopped at exactly what you said. "The iPhone/iPod/iPad does not allow for unsigned apps at this time". There, answers the question plain and simple.
An unsigned app means an app that does not show up in the App Store or Market, or whatever store. All apps there are signed apps. It's one where the developer creates and puts the actual file itself on a website for you to download and install yourself. So in a way, your argument that the App Store doesn't allow for porn (in the context of the question asked) doesn't make sense.
No, no, no - that's why Safari on the iPhone doesn't have flash - all the porn sites use flash
Good thing that Safari can render good, olde fashion JPEG, GIFs, and any other types of picture files. Porn doesn't have to move to be porn.
Or you can read it as: hey if you open your store to unsigned apps, then it can be really distracting to many of our customers. Many of our customers are young children who have iPod Touches, we want our devices to be family friendly, unsigned apps are the doorway to porn apps, we will not risk everything for some people.
You can, and that might have really be what he's getting at. But a simple "no, not at this time" to the question would have sufficed.
What you fail to realize is that the children you speak of already find porn via other means (again, Safari) on Apple products anyway. I'm sure there are plenty of iPhone/iPod optimized porn sites that require no authentication of age.
The "porn" that Steve Jobs mentions is an app for another App Store, MiKandi. This requires you to go through the usual account creation steps (need valid e-mail address, etc). It's not just a ready-to-go porn app that you can accidentally download. Even opening it doesn't show porn right away, as it's an app to its own store.
This means that the really young children using Apple products will not understand how to get to it. And the ones that can create the accounts are probably looking at porn already. It's a moot point he's trying to make and it's pure arrogance.
Only problem here for me is, the way SJ is presenting it, unaware people might believe that iPhone OS platform is clean of porn and as such suitable for kids without any scrutiny, which is sort of another reality distortion scenario.
Apple can only do so much. Apple decided PORN or adult sites, or some other applications could adversely effect their goals, or cause bad publicity. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy or whatever other charges thrown here.
If parents or adults responsible with minors under their supervision abdicate their duty to supervise their charge, no effort by Apple or any other company will solve what you consider a threat.
CGC
This means that the really young children using Apple products will not understand how to get to it. And the ones that can create the accounts are probably looking at porn already. It's a moot point he's trying to make and it's pure arrogance.
SJ is well aware Android is the only platform capable of competing with iPhone in the same market segment ground (high-end consumers, gadget lovers...).
Palm is all but dead, RIM is much more into corporate waters... WP7 is, well, still out of any picture. Nokia is more into lower-end market, unless they change something dramatically... so what remains is Android.
And Android ecosystem is progressing at accelerated pace. I was checking anandtech.com this morning for my morning-tea dose of IT news, and this article got my attention:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18080
To resume article (quote): "Apple has long dismissed Android, stating that it simply doesn't have enough apps to compete with the iPhone. That's quickly changing though. In July 2009 Google's Android Market was only adding about 1,500 apps a month. That number has steadily soared upwards and last month, it added 9,330 new apps."
If they continue this growth, apps count will become pointless - even if Apple apps library continue their growth, difference between 200,000 and 100,000 (2:1) is much less pronounced than difference between 100,000 and 10,000 (10:1).
And because of all that simple math, even if he would never admit that, SJ is feeling pressure from Android and is/will be trying to slow them down in every way possible - by suing Android phone manufacturers, accusing them of Porn... anything that might work. I don't think it is much different tactics from how Apple was fighting Windows regarding their personal computers platforms, albeit Apple is entering this new battle in much better position than their PC position was.
I'm wondering how much thought off this little diversion is. While there is a number of kids who might get an iPhone or Android phone from their parents, I don't think number is that high. Majority of kids will get iPod anyway, being cheaper, and Android hasn't got MP3 player-only device out there. On the other hand, number of young people capable of purchasing their own smartphone is much higher, and them actually might be attracted to Android by this "negative advertising" from SJ. I know I would
Or maybe SJ is fearing soon enough some Android phones might be available for the price of iPod Touch and parents might consider them, being able to do mostly everything iPod Touch does, with benefit of being able to call kids (and other way around) if occasion arise? I'm not parent yet, but majority of my colleagues and friends feel better knowing their kids can call in case of any emergency, and they can check on their kids any time of the day.
Apple can only do so much. Apple decided PORN or adult sites, or some other applications could adversely effect their goals, or cause bad publicity. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy or whatever other charges thrown here.
If parents or adults responsible with minors under their supervision abdicate their duty to supervise their charge, no effort by Apple or any other company will solve what you consider a threat.
CGC
Well, Apple could build some sort of user-definable content filtering into iPhone's Safari... something parents could set and password protect. It can't be 100% successful, but could minimize the "damage"... now for me, that would be much better (and respect-worthy) effort than just pointing fingers at competition.
Well, Apple could build some sort of user-definable content filtering into iPhone's Safari... something parents could set and password protect. It can't be 100% successful, but could minimize the "damage"...
I thought Apple did? I remember them talking about parental control. I thought they did this as part of their plan to have various ratings...
Personally though, I am more into exposure to adult content, especially with adult guidance -- not viewing adult sites or videos together, that would be embarassing to the young person. What I am more interested with is the inculcation of basic moral code, the sense of understanding right and wrong and code of ethics.
My parents were not too much into lectures about the above. They led by example. Also, when I was a child, I was punished when I had to be. There was not artificial rewards when youd did good. Neither did they withold their love even when you misbehaved.
It was from such upbringing that made me evolve my own "moral compass" as I matured.
Personally, I consider the family dynamics, more than anything that could make a difference -- not technological fixes.
CGC
Good thing nobody told Steve that porn is readily accessible on mobile Safari. There are probably even iPhone optimized sites. Then he would have had to remove Safari altogether.
Apple already gives parents the power to disable Safari, so no need to be worried about a problem that doesn't exist
The Disneyfication of Apple continues unabated.
Ya know, some people want the ability to control their experience. If your not one of them, go knock yourself out with one of the plethora of other devices where anything goes. Apple has been extremely consistent in their approach and philosophy - there is nothing new here. Why people who are so torqued out about this continually purchase Apple products or hang out in Apple forums is beyond me
Thanks for that post. I am sick of the wink-wink nature of so many posts here, of the "porn is ubiquitous, so just deal with it" variety.
It is great that someone is taking a stand. Whether it is ultimately futile or not, kudos to Jobs and Apple on this front.
+3 At least a few here get that...
Or maybe SJ is fearing soon enough some Android phones might be available for the price of iPod Touch and parents might consider them, being able to do mostly everything iPod Touch does, with benefit of being able to call kids (and other way around) if occasion arise? I'm not parent yet, but majority of my colleagues and friends feel better knowing their kids can call in case of any emergency, and they can check on their kids any time of the day.
Every Android phone has the same requirement for a data plan that costs the same as the iPhone. That's the real barrier to entry, not the cost of the device. Until that changes, I don't see the iPod touch (or now iPad) being threatened for kids vs. a smartphone any time soon.
And people joked about 10,000 fart apps on the iPhone - has anyone pushing app numbers for Android actually taken a moment to browse through the Android app catalog(s)? If you toss out multiple versions of apps caused by the fragmentation of the OS/hardware, many of these other apps are no better than the "fart apps" that were universally derided here for the longest time
Jobs responded to Ryan Block of gdgt by noting that there is a "porn store" for Google's Android mobile operating system, Apple's chief competitor in the mobile device and application space. "You can download it, your kids can download it," the CEO said. "That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to."
To me thats a really stupid comment to make. Who made Apple to government of what you can and can't access on your own phone! Saying it's because they wan't to keep out virus's etc would be a reasonable argument, but taking an opinion that people shouldn't do certain things when there legal then putting restrictions in products for that is a bit wrong.
I guess I would agree that Quattro was a better buy, especially considering the price difference, For some reason, I hadn't heard of them before Apple bought them, and I am still having a hard time finding information about them, I was just going based on what you said. As yet, I can't find any good traffic or revenue information. I did find that AdMob had served 7+ billion ads (http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2009/11/04/4462302.htm), but I can't find a similar figure for Quattro.
Try searching for 'Quattro Wireless' and be prepared to dig, 100,000 business/tech blogs announcing the exact same headline and feature for Apple's acquisition, have thrown up a fair amount of search chaff.
You haven't heard of parental controls have you. It's in the settings.
http://www.examiner.com/x-13879-iPho...ental-controls
It disables safari. Other apps can do more nuanced Safari restrictions too.
If there's "explicit" content on the store - what do I care - let the Quakers have their parental controls enabled as long as it doesn't prevent the rest of us from getting it - who cares. Oh right, open source software is the only "right" software in the universe and everyone should give Richard Stallman blowjobs. Whatever.
Do they work?
This is just off the top of my head as a potential workaround... but couldn't a crafty teen wipe their iPhone on another user account or friends or school lab, go porno crazy, then re-sync with their own iTunes data before Mom & Dad find out?
Does a parental hardened Mac still boot of a portable drive?
You might of confused me with some sort of hippy, I'm not mr. open source with is unfortunate, because I have expensive tastes.
Try searching for 'Quattro Wireless' and be prepared to dig, 100,000 business/tech blogs announcing the exact same headline and feature for Apple's acquisition, have thrown up a fair amount of search chaff.
I'll do you one better:
quattro wireless -apple
It takes out any page that mentions Apple. I still haven't found good information yet. They're not much older of a company.
A porn store on Android "that your kids can get to".
I love everything that comes out of Steve's mouth. Android is now known as the Porn phone. Nice jab!
yea Jobs is always so highly accurate and intelligent - never sounding childish and ignorant. I guess he doesn't feel so confident sometimes and needs to take jabs.
Android is what's known as open source... which means you can do a ton more with it than an iPhone... Porn apps included!!! This is nothing new.
Not sure if you got the intent from my post... I was in no way (shape, nor form) questioning why flash doesn't exist on Apples mobile devices... I have no love for the poorly written plugin and as a Mac user why would I? Adobe hasn't proven it can write an acceptable FLASH plugin for "OS X" why on earth should Apple allow the garbage propagate any further, especially if it's in a position to stop it.
As a newer Apple OS X user, I am appalled at Flashes performance on OS X. It was a pain and a hog in the MS world. But when a Flash Game (with no animations) takes up MORE RESOURCES than a fully rendered OpenGL 3-D MMO (World of Warcraft) - something is VERY, VERY wrong with Flash.
Not completely true, as the early adopters get screwed again -- no OS 4.0 for you original 2007 iPhone owners... It SHOULD be supported, even if it is with less feature support!
Are you being serious or sarcastic? I hope the latter.