I got to go, my pirated CS5 torrent is almost done downloading. I sure hope the the keygen works, I love taking money away from those selfish bastards.
i've heard you say that before. i have no sympathy for pirates and don't care for their problems.
but you have to acknowledge that there are longstanding problems with mac versions of adobe's software that are not related to warez. the complaints go back years. lumping genuine complaints in with problems in pre-relase versions is at best a way to deflect from legitimate concerns of users and at worst FUD.
Nope it isn't but there are lots of alternatives to McDonalds. Or because its very popular should they be forced to have a vegan menu, kosher menu, low carb menu or other items not of their choice on the Menu?
That's exactly the issue with Apple, they sold you a device they made no promises of what if would do beyond what was available at the time of purchase. You don't like their choices buy a phone that suits your purpose.
There are Android Phones, Linux phones, Symbian phones, Palm phones (supposedly better O/S but crappy hardware/marketing), Samsung (whatever they plan to call their smartphone OS), coming soon Windows 7 phones. So pick one that meets your needs and move on.
All the rants seem to act like Apple is going to control all communications in the universe, its just a stupid smart phone (or tablet).
I mean Google is much more in a position to control information/communications (internet content, office apps, storage, search, advertising,phones, fiber networks, their own O/S, possible now semiconductors, and even talk of them buying into wireless (sprint?) ) from end-to-end then Apple.
Well actually McDonald's does have food for vegetarians, and all the meat in all of the McDonald's in Isreal is kosher, but I'm getting away from my point
With the iphone, you've got a generic device that seems to appeal to a lot of people, and as that user base grows, more and more the rest of the industry looks at its success as "what to do." Heck, to build on my McDonald's analogy, you can see that McDonald's wasn't the first, but the key to their success has been imitated many times over, and we are a much fatter nation because of it. At least with McDonald's people admit they're buying delicious garbage.
So when Jobs lies about flash being a cpu hog, and everyone just agrees without question, it does have a ripple effect on the rest of the industry. People are making the comment that Adobe is ripping on Apple for something that no other phone has, but they ignore the obvious in that Steve Jobs has no problem ripping on flash under the same exact circumstances.
i've heard you say that before. i have no sympathy for pirates and don't care for their problems.
but you have to acknowledge that there are longstanding problems with mac versions of adobe's software that are not related to warez. the complaints go back years. lumping genuine complaints in with problems in pre-relase versions is at best a way to deflect from legitimate concerns of users and at worst FUD.
Sorry no I was not inferring that at all. I was making an attempt at sarcasm that all these Adobe haters will happily use and profit from Adobe products despite their complaints. And if they can get said product for free, kewl!
Apple also owns the canvas tag which is not in the HTML5 spec but is however supported to one degree or another by all modern browsers except IE. The canvas tag is the key to any sort of Flash like animation and interactivity in HTML5. IE9 is rumored to be deploying most of the HTML5 proposed spec (except for the canvas tag). Wouldn't you know it. See MS has a piece of software they don't want made obsolete, Silverlight. So to protect Silverlight they are not likely to endorse the Apple owned technology, canvas tag, although Apple has said it plans to openly license the technology, it hasn't happened yet.
by that logic microsoft would have never worked as closely with adobe to optimise flash for windows as the adobe boys want us to believe when they lay the blame for flash performance on the mac at apple's feet.
Pardon my ignorance, but why is HTML5 cast as hero while Flash is cast as the villain? If HTML5 equals Flash, and they can be used interchangeably (ignoring various performance issues) to do the same sorts of things, what makes Flash so evil? Is that the same thing that makes HTML5 so great?
Isn't the anger currently aimed at Flash more appropriately aimed at slow-loading banner ads and commercialism? If Flash is gone, will the banner ads and commercialism disappear? Will getting rid of Flash speed up our web experience? Or will it simply close off a good graphics and animation tool, and force us all to use another one?
Flash can be used for annoying banner ads. Is that not true of HTML5?
Flash can slow down site load times. Is that not true of HTML5?
Flash has programmable interactivity, vector graphics, and can be used to build custom interactive experiences. If HTML5 builds the same sorts of things, what makes one of these technologies outdated crap and the other a futuristic panacea?
Another related thought - if Flash is being replaced by HTML5, why doesn't Adobe build a compiler, not to iPhone, but to HTML5? Isn't it an open standard that is supported by iPhone, and therefore a way around any proprietary political legal maneuvers by Apple?
HTML5 is free. Flash requires a license, and therefore it's Adobe's way of having control over the web (or something.)
What Adobe needs to do is highlight what flash can do that html5 can't.
To be perfectly honest, I think most people don't even care beyond watching videos on the web. I like to play a ren and stimpy fart cannon game every once in a while lol.
This issue of Flash always makes me see 'red' and if you want to know a company that I would love to drive a bulldozer through, then it is adobe. Someone talked about Adobe could not sue Apple, will all us mac customers should sue Adobe for its lousy, quick, cheap, fixes it calls software, it has tried to sell Mac community in last 10 years, hoping that OS would die and everyone would port to windows based PCs.
Adobe and your evangelist can go shove your empty promises were the sun does not shine. I will stick with iPhone/Mac product, if only NOT to have to deal with Adobe's apparent saviour to us all 'FLASH'
Help kill Adobe's Flash. Join YouTube's HTML5 beta and on Vimeo just click the "Switch to HTML5 player" link below any video. http://www.youtube.com/html5
I understand your point, but at a certain level, why should Adobe optimize the code for Mac, especially when they have essentially been told that no matter what they do, they will never have access to the mobile platform.
Sorry no I was not inferring that at all. I was making an attempt at sarcasm that all these Adobe haters will happily use and profit from Adobe products despite their complaints. And if they can get said product for free, kewl!
thanks for clearing that up.
i think the hate you get from long time mac users (like myself) is very much based in the neglect we've endured at the hands of adobe. when up to 50% of CS revenue comes from mac users, i think we're entitled to have our complaints heard and acted upon.
so far that hasn't happened.
(I keep reading all kinds of numbers on adobe's mac revenue, i'd love it if somebody could point me to a credible source, i'd appreciate that.)
when you ignore an important part of your user base (and revenue) for this long, it shouldn't surprise adobe if we take the opportunity to climb on the soapbox they handed us. we rely on adobe's software, and we used to love them. i want them to STFU and start working.
I want adobe to be a proud & competent mac developer again. i don't give a shit about their platform plans. i'm curious how profitable this whole flash app development really is for them.
sometimes it feels like the microsoft scenario, where they sink billions of windows/office revenue into xbox development.
I understand your point, but at a certain level, why should Adobe optimize the code for Mac, especially when they have essentially been told that no matter what they do, they will never have access to the mobile platform.
because a huge chunk of their income comes from mac users. that's why.
so far very little income comes from iphone users.
Flash 9 and Flash 10 already run on mobile devices FAR BETTER than anything in HTML5 and Canvas which you probably don't know is ONLY A DRAFT! Dude, you guys are pimping something that's not even adopted or finalized! When Flash Player 10.1 hits all the android, symbian, windows, and rim devices, the cheese will stand alone.
I agree with you. I want flash on my phone. However adobe has nothing working worth a crap out there yet on any phones. Anyone who says otherwise has not actually tried it in real world. A friend of mine was bragging about flash 9 on his phone. I went to hulu and guess what. It doesn't work! Let adobe stop whinning when they have a "REAL" version of flash on ANY phone. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but as of today, I have never actually seen a working version of flash on a mobile device that does everything the desktop version does.
The weird thing about all of this is that Adobe is getting belligerent about Apple not participating in some imaginary world where Flash runs great on other mobile devices.
Whereas in fact there are, let's see now..... none. All we have is the promise of software already going on a year late. It's just bizarre that anyone, let alone Adobe, could excoriate Apple for not getting with a program that doesn't fucking exist.
I love this comment because it's true!
When it comes right down to it, there is no really Flash on any phone out there now anyway. All we have is Flash Lite (which sucks ass) and yet Adobe and every dipshit pundit out there (and those who listens to them) are screaming and yelling about how there is no Flash on the iPhone.
Flash has it's place and that place is the desktop. I personally dont think it has any place on the iPhone (or any mobile device for that matter) simply because it was designed on the desktop for the desktop YEARS before touch technology was anything other than a concept.
You can't just duct tape and hot glue an old technology onto a piece of new technology and hope it works. You have to rethink it from the ground up; something Adobe is not good at (and never has been).
Apple seems to be singlehandedly driving how the future of touch is implemented and this is what they are saying:
"These are not desktop devices people! If they were, we would have slapped some touch capability on OS X (like MS did with Windows "touch") and left you with that. Instead we've started from scratch with a touch OS and are creating the rules to make it go... and Flash has no place here."
Maybe Adobe will try and hurt Apple back by producing mediocre software for the Mac platform so that when benchmarks will show how much faster things are on the Windows platform?
If Apple were to allow Flash on the iPhone, nobody would ever download a game from the App Store ever again. Launch the Flash app, navigate to a Flash-based game, and never have to buy a game again.
So, in theory, you would only need one app to play a thousand games instead of download a thousand games from the App Store.
Seems like a pretty smart decision if you run a company who happens to want to turn a profit for its shareholders.
right. because there are no free games on the app store. this canard is getting old. kill it now.
I understand your point, but at a certain level, why should Adobe optimize the code for Mac, especially when they have essentially been told that no matter what they do, they will never have access to the mobile platform.
Are you saying that Adobe should not optimize Flash for Mac, because it won't be getting access to the iPhone?
btw: Am I the only one who sometimes wake up in the morning and find their mac running all night unable to go into sleep mode because of some crappy flash ads?
When it comes right down to it, there is no really Flash on any phone out there now anyway. All we have is Flash Lite (which sucks ass) and yet Adobe and every dipshit pundit out there (and those who listens to them) are screaming and yelling about how there is no Flash on the iPhone.
It goes both ways you know. Jobs has no problem trashing flash for mobile when it doesn't exist yet, then everyone here repeats it. CPU HOG! DRAIN BATTERY! ADOBE=BAD!
It goes both ways you know. Jobs has no problem trashing flash for mobile when it doesn't exist yet, then everyone here repeats it. CPU HOG! DRAIN BATTERY! ADOBE=BAD!
It's all bullshit.
I think Flash on desktop is a good indicator for the same crap on phone.
You are kidding yourself if you say that flash is working great for you, whether you are on mac, windows or linux.
I agree with you. I want flash on my phone. However adobe has nothing working worth a crap out there yet on any phones. Anyone who says otherwise has not actually tried it in real world. A friend of mine was bragging about flash 9 on his phone. I went to hulu and guess what. It doesn't work! Let adobe stop whinning when they have a "REAL" version of flash on ANY phone. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but as of today, I have never actually seen a working version of flash on a mobile device that does everything the desktop version does.
i think that's exactly what all this mudslinging and whining from adobe's people is all about. misdirecting from the fact that they don't actually have a shipping version. for any mobile device.
mike chambers claims 'There is no technical reason that Flash can?t run on the iPhone', and even some people here have claimed to have working versions of flash on their iphones.
i want to see it! show me! but i also want to see it run well, not eat batteries and provide the same experience as the desktop version (but obviously without the power drainage like the mac osx version).
i think it's up to adobe now to prove steve jobs wrong. it's been 3 years of claims.
now put up - or shut up.
when flash finally emerges for android/webos/winmo7, we will find out what the minimum hardware requirements are going to be. if it needs anything more than the original iphone offered, i'd be inclined to think that steve jobs was right all along.
It goes both ways you know. Jobs has no problem trashing flash for mobile when it doesn't exist yet, then everyone here repeats it. CPU HOG! DRAIN BATTERY! ADOBE=BAD!
It's all bullshit.
i'm guessing steve is a mac user. he probably has experienced it himself.
by that logic microsoft would have never worked as closely with adobe to optimise flash for windows as the adobe boys want us to believe when they lay the blame for flash performance on the mac at apple's feet.
The alleged cooperation would have been years earlier when Macromedia was in charge. Silverlight is relatively new, only a couple years old. I would assume the warm relations between Adobe and MS has cooled considerably over the Silverlight launch.
Comments
Yeah Adobe so sucks
I got to go, my pirated CS5 torrent is almost done downloading. I sure hope the the keygen works, I love taking money away from those selfish bastards.
i've heard you say that before. i have no sympathy for pirates and don't care for their problems.
but you have to acknowledge that there are longstanding problems with mac versions of adobe's software that are not related to warez. the complaints go back years. lumping genuine complaints in with problems in pre-relase versions is at best a way to deflect from legitimate concerns of users and at worst FUD.
Nope it isn't but there are lots of alternatives to McDonalds. Or because its very popular should they be forced to have a vegan menu, kosher menu, low carb menu or other items not of their choice on the Menu?
That's exactly the issue with Apple, they sold you a device they made no promises of what if would do beyond what was available at the time of purchase. You don't like their choices buy a phone that suits your purpose.
There are Android Phones, Linux phones, Symbian phones, Palm phones (supposedly better O/S but crappy hardware/marketing), Samsung (whatever they plan to call their smartphone OS), coming soon Windows 7 phones. So pick one that meets your needs and move on.
All the rants seem to act like Apple is going to control all communications in the universe, its just a stupid smart phone (or tablet).
I mean Google is much more in a position to control information/communications (internet content, office apps, storage, search, advertising,phones, fiber networks, their own O/S, possible now semiconductors, and even talk of them buying into wireless (sprint?) ) from end-to-end then Apple.
Well actually McDonald's does have food for vegetarians, and all the meat in all of the McDonald's in Isreal is kosher, but I'm getting away from my point
With the iphone, you've got a generic device that seems to appeal to a lot of people, and as that user base grows, more and more the rest of the industry looks at its success as "what to do." Heck, to build on my McDonald's analogy, you can see that McDonald's wasn't the first, but the key to their success has been imitated many times over, and we are a much fatter nation because of it. At least with McDonald's people admit they're buying delicious garbage.
So when Jobs lies about flash being a cpu hog, and everyone just agrees without question, it does have a ripple effect on the rest of the industry. People are making the comment that Adobe is ripping on Apple for something that no other phone has, but they ignore the obvious in that Steve Jobs has no problem ripping on flash under the same exact circumstances.
It's all so stupid.
i've heard you say that before. i have no sympathy for pirates and don't care for their problems.
but you have to acknowledge that there are longstanding problems with mac versions of adobe's software that are not related to warez. the complaints go back years. lumping genuine complaints in with problems in pre-relase versions is at best a way to deflect from legitimate concerns of users and at worst FUD.
Sorry no I was not inferring that at all. I was making an attempt at sarcasm that all these Adobe haters will happily use and profit from Adobe products despite their complaints. And if they can get said product for free, kewl!
Apple also owns the canvas tag which is not in the HTML5 spec but is however supported to one degree or another by all modern browsers except IE. The canvas tag is the key to any sort of Flash like animation and interactivity in HTML5. IE9 is rumored to be deploying most of the HTML5 proposed spec (except for the canvas tag). Wouldn't you know it. See MS has a piece of software they don't want made obsolete, Silverlight. So to protect Silverlight they are not likely to endorse the Apple owned technology, canvas tag, although Apple has said it plans to openly license the technology, it hasn't happened yet.
by that logic microsoft would have never worked as closely with adobe to optimise flash for windows as the adobe boys want us to believe when they lay the blame for flash performance on the mac at apple's feet.
Ahhhhh
funny...it looks like ballmer before his "developers, developers, developers" keynotes
Pardon my ignorance, but why is HTML5 cast as hero while Flash is cast as the villain? If HTML5 equals Flash, and they can be used interchangeably (ignoring various performance issues) to do the same sorts of things, what makes Flash so evil? Is that the same thing that makes HTML5 so great?
Isn't the anger currently aimed at Flash more appropriately aimed at slow-loading banner ads and commercialism? If Flash is gone, will the banner ads and commercialism disappear? Will getting rid of Flash speed up our web experience? Or will it simply close off a good graphics and animation tool, and force us all to use another one?
Flash can be used for annoying banner ads. Is that not true of HTML5?
Flash can slow down site load times. Is that not true of HTML5?
Flash has programmable interactivity, vector graphics, and can be used to build custom interactive experiences. If HTML5 builds the same sorts of things, what makes one of these technologies outdated crap and the other a futuristic panacea?
Another related thought - if Flash is being replaced by HTML5, why doesn't Adobe build a compiler, not to iPhone, but to HTML5? Isn't it an open standard that is supported by iPhone, and therefore a way around any proprietary political legal maneuvers by Apple?
HTML5 is free. Flash requires a license, and therefore it's Adobe's way of having control over the web (or something.)
What Adobe needs to do is highlight what flash can do that html5 can't.
To be perfectly honest, I think most people don't even care beyond watching videos on the web. I like to play a ren and stimpy fart cannon game every once in a while lol.
This issue of Flash always makes me see 'red' and if you want to know a company that I would love to drive a bulldozer through, then it is adobe. Someone talked about Adobe could not sue Apple, will all us mac customers should sue Adobe for its lousy, quick, cheap, fixes it calls software, it has tried to sell Mac community in last 10 years, hoping that OS would die and everyone would port to windows based PCs.
Adobe and your evangelist can go shove your empty promises were the sun does not shine. I will stick with iPhone/Mac product, if only NOT to have to deal with Adobe's apparent saviour to us all 'FLASH'
Help kill Adobe's Flash. Join YouTube's HTML5 beta and on Vimeo just click the "Switch to HTML5 player" link below any video. http://www.youtube.com/html5
I understand your point, but at a certain level, why should Adobe optimize the code for Mac, especially when they have essentially been told that no matter what they do, they will never have access to the mobile platform.
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2010/04/flashiphone.jpg
Sorry no I was not inferring that at all. I was making an attempt at sarcasm that all these Adobe haters will happily use and profit from Adobe products despite their complaints. And if they can get said product for free, kewl!
thanks for clearing that up.
i think the hate you get from long time mac users (like myself) is very much based in the neglect we've endured at the hands of adobe. when up to 50% of CS revenue comes from mac users, i think we're entitled to have our complaints heard and acted upon.
so far that hasn't happened.
(I keep reading all kinds of numbers on adobe's mac revenue, i'd love it if somebody could point me to a credible source, i'd appreciate that.)
when you ignore an important part of your user base (and revenue) for this long, it shouldn't surprise adobe if we take the opportunity to climb on the soapbox they handed us. we rely on adobe's software, and we used to love them. i want them to STFU and start working.
I want adobe to be a proud & competent mac developer again. i don't give a shit about their platform plans. i'm curious how profitable this whole flash app development really is for them.
sometimes it feels like the microsoft scenario, where they sink billions of windows/office revenue into xbox development.
I understand your point, but at a certain level, why should Adobe optimize the code for Mac, especially when they have essentially been told that no matter what they do, they will never have access to the mobile platform.
because a huge chunk of their income comes from mac users. that's why.
so far very little income comes from iphone users.
Flash 9 and Flash 10 already run on mobile devices FAR BETTER than anything in HTML5 and Canvas which you probably don't know is ONLY A DRAFT! Dude, you guys are pimping something that's not even adopted or finalized! When Flash Player 10.1 hits all the android, symbian, windows, and rim devices, the cheese will stand alone.
I agree with you. I want flash on my phone. However adobe has nothing working worth a crap out there yet on any phones. Anyone who says otherwise has not actually tried it in real world. A friend of mine was bragging about flash 9 on his phone. I went to hulu and guess what. It doesn't work! Let adobe stop whinning when they have a "REAL" version of flash on ANY phone. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but as of today, I have never actually seen a working version of flash on a mobile device that does everything the desktop version does.
The weird thing about all of this is that Adobe is getting belligerent about Apple not participating in some imaginary world where Flash runs great on other mobile devices.
Whereas in fact there are, let's see now..... none. All we have is the promise of software already going on a year late. It's just bizarre that anyone, let alone Adobe, could excoriate Apple for not getting with a program that doesn't fucking exist.
I love this comment because it's true!
When it comes right down to it, there is no really Flash on any phone out there now anyway. All we have is Flash Lite (which sucks ass) and yet Adobe and every dipshit pundit out there (and those who listens to them) are screaming and yelling about how there is no Flash on the iPhone.
Flash has it's place and that place is the desktop. I personally dont think it has any place on the iPhone (or any mobile device for that matter) simply because it was designed on the desktop for the desktop YEARS before touch technology was anything other than a concept.
You can't just duct tape and hot glue an old technology onto a piece of new technology and hope it works. You have to rethink it from the ground up; something Adobe is not good at (and never has been).
Apple seems to be singlehandedly driving how the future of touch is implemented and this is what they are saying:
"These are not desktop devices people! If they were, we would have slapped some touch capability on OS X (like MS did with Windows "touch") and left you with that. Instead we've started from scratch with a touch OS and are creating the rules to make it go... and Flash has no place here."
Maybe Adobe will try and hurt Apple back by producing mediocre software for the Mac platform so that when benchmarks will show how much faster things are on the Windows platform?
you mean business as usual?
If Apple were to allow Flash on the iPhone, nobody would ever download a game from the App Store ever again. Launch the Flash app, navigate to a Flash-based game, and never have to buy a game again.
So, in theory, you would only need one app to play a thousand games instead of download a thousand games from the App Store.
Seems like a pretty smart decision if you run a company who happens to want to turn a profit for its shareholders.
right. because there are no free games on the app store. this canard is getting old. kill it now.
I understand your point, but at a certain level, why should Adobe optimize the code for Mac, especially when they have essentially been told that no matter what they do, they will never have access to the mobile platform.
Are you saying that Adobe should not optimize Flash for Mac, because it won't be getting access to the iPhone?
btw: Am I the only one who sometimes wake up in the morning and find their mac running all night unable to go into sleep mode because of some crappy flash ads?
I love this comment because it's true!
When it comes right down to it, there is no really Flash on any phone out there now anyway. All we have is Flash Lite (which sucks ass) and yet Adobe and every dipshit pundit out there (and those who listens to them) are screaming and yelling about how there is no Flash on the iPhone.
It goes both ways you know. Jobs has no problem trashing flash for mobile when it doesn't exist yet, then everyone here repeats it. CPU HOG! DRAIN BATTERY! ADOBE=BAD!
It's all bullshit.
It goes both ways you know. Jobs has no problem trashing flash for mobile when it doesn't exist yet, then everyone here repeats it. CPU HOG! DRAIN BATTERY! ADOBE=BAD!
It's all bullshit.
I think Flash on desktop is a good indicator for the same crap on phone.
You are kidding yourself if you say that flash is working great for you, whether you are on mac, windows or linux.
I agree with you. I want flash on my phone. However adobe has nothing working worth a crap out there yet on any phones. Anyone who says otherwise has not actually tried it in real world. A friend of mine was bragging about flash 9 on his phone. I went to hulu and guess what. It doesn't work! Let adobe stop whinning when they have a "REAL" version of flash on ANY phone. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but as of today, I have never actually seen a working version of flash on a mobile device that does everything the desktop version does.
i think that's exactly what all this mudslinging and whining from adobe's people is all about. misdirecting from the fact that they don't actually have a shipping version. for any mobile device.
mike chambers claims 'There is no technical reason that Flash can?t run on the iPhone', and even some people here have claimed to have working versions of flash on their iphones.
i want to see it! show me! but i also want to see it run well, not eat batteries and provide the same experience as the desktop version (but obviously without the power drainage like the mac osx version).
i think it's up to adobe now to prove steve jobs wrong. it's been 3 years of claims.
now put up - or shut up.
when flash finally emerges for android/webos/winmo7, we will find out what the minimum hardware requirements are going to be. if it needs anything more than the original iphone offered, i'd be inclined to think that steve jobs was right all along.
It goes both ways you know. Jobs has no problem trashing flash for mobile when it doesn't exist yet, then everyone here repeats it. CPU HOG! DRAIN BATTERY! ADOBE=BAD!
It's all bullshit.
i'm guessing steve is a mac user. he probably has experienced it himself.
by that logic microsoft would have never worked as closely with adobe to optimise flash for windows as the adobe boys want us to believe when they lay the blame for flash performance on the mac at apple's feet.
The alleged cooperation would have been years earlier when Macromedia was in charge. Silverlight is relatively new, only a couple years old. I would assume the warm relations between Adobe and MS has cooled considerably over the Silverlight launch.