Too many hearsay variables to have any credibility. Why don't you take a video showing us the all of the relevant content on screen and the Activity Monitor live in real time. BTW I can write and HTML5 canvas that will peg your CPU as well.
oh come on. if you're on a mac, you don't need documentation. you've seen it!
... his blog post, while more adult than lee brimelow's rant, is full of flamebait and FUD. hardly what i would call 'fair, reasonable and helpful'. while it's probably useful for riling up the faithful flash devs, it hardly makes adobe look like a company run by reasonable adults.
passion for your product is one thing. washing your dirty laundry in public is another. apple has been characteristically quiet as usual...
Actually, it seems Apple did respond (found this on Daring Fireball):
Here's the response from Apple that Gruber quoted:
Quote:
?Someone has it backwards ? it is HTML5, CSS, JavaScript, and H.264 (all supported by the iPhone and iPad) that are open and standard, while Adobe?s Flash is closed and proprietary,? said spokeswoman Trudy Miller in a statement."
Too many hearsay variables to have any credibility. Why don't you take a video showing us the all of the relevant content on screen and the Activity Monitor live in real time. BTW I can write and HTML5 canvas that will peg your CPU as well.
Sure... while I'm working that why don't you whip up a case (with citations, movies, etc.) that proves that Flash is Not a resource hog on a Mac...
I would love to see them optimize flash for the Mac, as it is a pain. I don't use Adobe products except for their free reader.
If you read the boards here and at macrumors, the general consensus is that mobile is the next frontier so to speak, in terms of revenue growth etc.
Apple, as is their right and I have no conceptual issue with this, has said that Flash will never run on the iPhone platform, no matter what Adobe does. So, Adobe has been locked out of a potentially large source of revenue by Apple, based on what may or may not be legitimate technical issues (I am not a programmer).
Given that situation, what incentive does Adobe have to optimize their software, particularly when they read these boards (and they most certainly do), and they read Adobe sucks, should die, etc etc.
Adobe could, along with Apple's actions, get the impression that no matter what they do with their software, Mac people are going to complain etc.
you make it sound as if the complaints of mac users are made up and have taken adobe by surprise. that's just not the reality. adobe has heard these complaints for years and has done little about it. the only impression that i think they got is this: it doesn't matter how badly we treat mac users. they have little choice but to lump it.
after being told that they don't get to play in steve's new sandbox, they are suddenly waking up. well - all i can say to that is: thanks steve, what took you so long? a company that doesn't listen to half of its core customers for years doesn't deserve sympathy. it's sad that it had to take a semi-public scolding by steve jobs to wake them up.
let's hope they do something about it - other than just blogging.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter if Flash can be converted to HTML5. The move for video is already under way, Gruber has a link today for some HTML5 games that some guy threw together, and Flash doesn't really have anything compelling to offer over the long run: being effectively locked out of the entire mobile market for the moment, and the iP* using segment of that market permanently, isn't exactly going to make it a good choice for anyone that wants to reach those consumers, and everybody does want to reach them.
The move away from Flash towards standards based content is already well under way, and there will be no turning back. Someone, if not Adobe, will create the tools for designers, and they are probably working on them as you read this. People update their websites constantly, so it's not necessary to convert the Flash content, it will simply be replaced with HTML5 content when the next update cycle comes around. In not too long a time, the only place Flash will continue to exist is in Web archives.
Here's the response from Apple that Gruber quoted:
i stand corrected.
how dare they point to facts in a single sentence! where is the inflammatory rhetoric? what? no 'screw you adobe' from a company official? and so the 'war' continues...
you make it sound as if the complaints of mac users are made up and have taken adobe by surprise. that's just not the reality. adobe has heard these complaints for years and has done little about it. the only impression that i think they got is this: it doesn't matter how badly we treat mac users. they have little choice but to lump it.
after being told that they don't get to play in steve's new sandbox, they are suddenly waking up. well - all i can say to that is: thanks steve, what took you so long? a company that doesn't listen to half of its core customers for years doesn't deserve sympathy. it's sad that it had to take a semi-public scolding by steve jobs to wake them up.
let's hope they do something about it - other than just blogging.
In no way am I saying that the complaints are made up. The complaints are legitimate, and long standing.
OTOH, given the history of mac users and adobe, and all of the bad blood, do you believe that if Adobe optimized their software so that it ran smoothly and bug free on Mac OSX, that Mac users would suddenly embrace Adobe and its products, and that all would be forgiven?
In no way am I saying that the complaints are made up. The complaints are legitimate, and long standing.
OTOH, given the history of mac users and adobe, and all of the bad blood, do you believe that if Adobe optimized their software so that it ran smoothly and bug free on Mac OSX, that Mac users would suddenly embrace Adobe and its products, and that all would be forgiven?
Given the fact that Adobe got their start with Mac People, why would they suddenly turn on Adobe? Mac People must be mentally unstable.
Given the fact that Adobe got their start with Mac People, why would they suddenly turn on Adobe? Mac People must be mentally unstable.
It's not always about how you start it's about how you finish.
Adobe basically turned their backs on Apple and their Mac users. Now that Apple's fortunes have improved Adobe wishes to hitch a ride on the mobile platform wave and they're getting shutout.
I think our anger towards Adobe is justified and if anything means we are more stable than ever.
In no way am I saying that the complaints are made up. The complaints are legitimate, and long standing.
OTOH, given the history of mac users and adobe, and all of the bad blood, do you believe that if Adobe optimized their software so that it ran smoothly and bug free on Mac OSX, that Mac users would suddenly embrace Adobe and its products, and that all would be forgiven?
no. i'm not saying that. i said that if adobe had been more pro-active in getting flash on osx up to snuff years ago, there would have been a much better chance in getting flash on the iphone.
we were all speculating if flash would be part of the iphone in 2007, and at the time there was no definite 'no. never. not ever.' coming from apple (iirc). i think steve jobs' comments (resource hog, battery life, cpu killer) didn't surface until later, probably after adobe showed them work in progress (admittedly pure speculation on my part).
i seem to recall that jobs was dismissing flash lite pretty much right away as 'useless'. maybe we read too much into it at the time, but adobe was talking a lot about bringing a full flash version for mobiles out. it was just around the corner. and has been for three years now.
we have to remember also that at the time of the iphone launch, nobody could have predicted it to be a runaway success. i'm sure that apple is more confident now than they were back then and have adjusted their roadmap accordingly. three years of no-flash iphone sales do prove that apple doesn't need flash.
if adobe pulls it off, they might want it at some point. time will tell. i wouldn't bet money on it.
i don't think this is about video playback. that train has left the platform. 3 years of iphone, and the support for other solutions by youtube/vimeo and maybe soon hulu prove that you don't need flash for that. i don't think adobe was pushing their flash-to-iphone development platform to put more flash video online.
What's this hulu thing? Remember 96% of the worlds population doesn't care about a restricted US product. At the moment the local TV streaming available here is still Flash, and while flash is a resource hog, a massive resource hog, a damn pig of a resource hog, it seems to be a lot more reliable than HTML5 via Safari on Youtube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino
h264 is licensed free until 2015 (?) i think. i sure hope we're not going to drag out this discussion until then...
No, but in 2015 when everyone is using h.264 what happens when the mpeg-la starts passing the hat around?
Comments
Too many hearsay variables to have any credibility. Why don't you take a video showing us the all of the relevant content on screen and the Activity Monitor live in real time. BTW I can write and HTML5 canvas that will peg your CPU as well.
oh come on. if you're on a mac, you don't need documentation. you've seen it!
... his blog post, while more adult than lee brimelow's rant, is full of flamebait and FUD. hardly what i would call 'fair, reasonable and helpful'. while it's probably useful for riling up the faithful flash devs, it hardly makes adobe look like a company run by reasonable adults.
passion for your product is one thing. washing your dirty laundry in public is another. apple has been characteristically quiet as usual...
Actually, it seems Apple did respond (found this on Daring Fireball): Here's the response from Apple that Gruber quoted:
?Someone has it backwards ? it is HTML5, CSS, JavaScript, and H.264 (all supported by the iPhone and iPad) that are open and standard, while Adobe?s Flash is closed and proprietary,? said spokeswoman Trudy Miller in a statement."
H.264 though is far from "free"
One is open to license H.264 from MPEG-LA and implement it to their product needs.
Can you say the same for Flash?
Adobe could, along with Apple's actions, get the impression that no matter what they do with their software, Mac people are going to complain etc.
You really think Mac people are just complaining for no reason other than to complain.
Too many hearsay variables to have any credibility. Why don't you take a video showing us the all of the relevant content on screen and the Activity Monitor live in real time. BTW I can write and HTML5 canvas that will peg your CPU as well.
Sure... while I'm working that why don't you whip up a case (with citations, movies, etc.) that proves that Flash is Not a resource hog on a Mac...
I'll show you mine, if you'll show me yours!
.
I would love to see them optimize flash for the Mac, as it is a pain. I don't use Adobe products except for their free reader.
If you read the boards here and at macrumors, the general consensus is that mobile is the next frontier so to speak, in terms of revenue growth etc.
Apple, as is their right and I have no conceptual issue with this, has said that Flash will never run on the iPhone platform, no matter what Adobe does. So, Adobe has been locked out of a potentially large source of revenue by Apple, based on what may or may not be legitimate technical issues (I am not a programmer).
Given that situation, what incentive does Adobe have to optimize their software, particularly when they read these boards (and they most certainly do), and they read Adobe sucks, should die, etc etc.
Adobe could, along with Apple's actions, get the impression that no matter what they do with their software, Mac people are going to complain etc.
you make it sound as if the complaints of mac users are made up and have taken adobe by surprise. that's just not the reality. adobe has heard these complaints for years and has done little about it. the only impression that i think they got is this: it doesn't matter how badly we treat mac users. they have little choice but to lump it.
after being told that they don't get to play in steve's new sandbox, they are suddenly waking up. well - all i can say to that is: thanks steve, what took you so long? a company that doesn't listen to half of its core customers for years doesn't deserve sympathy. it's sad that it had to take a semi-public scolding by steve jobs to wake them up.
let's hope they do something about it - other than just blogging.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter if Flash can be converted to HTML5. The move for video is already under way, Gruber has a link today for some HTML5 games that some guy threw together, and Flash doesn't really have anything compelling to offer over the long run: being effectively locked out of the entire mobile market for the moment, and the iP* using segment of that market permanently, isn't exactly going to make it a good choice for anyone that wants to reach those consumers, and everybody does want to reach them.
The move away from Flash towards standards based content is already well under way, and there will be no turning back. Someone, if not Adobe, will create the tools for designers, and they are probably working on them as you read this. People update their websites constantly, so it's not necessary to convert the Flash content, it will simply be replaced with HTML5 content when the next update cycle comes around. In not too long a time, the only place Flash will continue to exist is in Web archives.
http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/
Impressive stuff!
Actually, it seems Apple did respond (found this on Daring Fireball): Here's the response from Apple that Gruber quoted:
i stand corrected.
how dare they point to facts in a single sentence! where is the inflammatory rhetoric? what? no 'screw you adobe' from a company official? and so the 'war' continues...
http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/
Impressive stuff!
Apparently even Farmville are porting to iPhone OS.
you make it sound as if the complaints of mac users are made up and have taken adobe by surprise. that's just not the reality. adobe has heard these complaints for years and has done little about it. the only impression that i think they got is this: it doesn't matter how badly we treat mac users. they have little choice but to lump it.
after being told that they don't get to play in steve's new sandbox, they are suddenly waking up. well - all i can say to that is: thanks steve, what took you so long? a company that doesn't listen to half of its core customers for years doesn't deserve sympathy. it's sad that it had to take a semi-public scolding by steve jobs to wake them up.
let's hope they do something about it - other than just blogging.
In no way am I saying that the complaints are made up. The complaints are legitimate, and long standing.
OTOH, given the history of mac users and adobe, and all of the bad blood, do you believe that if Adobe optimized their software so that it ran smoothly and bug free on Mac OSX, that Mac users would suddenly embrace Adobe and its products, and that all would be forgiven?
In no way am I saying that the complaints are made up. The complaints are legitimate, and long standing.
OTOH, given the history of mac users and adobe, and all of the bad blood, do you believe that if Adobe optimized their software so that it ran smoothly and bug free on Mac OSX, that Mac users would suddenly embrace Adobe and its products, and that all would be forgiven?
Given the fact that Adobe got their start with Mac People, why would they suddenly turn on Adobe? Mac People must be mentally unstable.
Given the fact that Adobe got their start with Mac People, why would they suddenly turn on Adobe? Mac People must be mentally unstable.
It's not always about how you start it's about how you finish.
Adobe basically turned their backs on Apple and their Mac users. Now that Apple's fortunes have improved Adobe wishes to hitch a ride on the mobile platform wave and they're getting shutout.
I think our anger towards Adobe is justified and if anything means we are more stable than ever.
Apparently even Farmville are porting to iPhone OS.
I know nothing of this Farmville, my fine fellow.
I have recent (and continued) personal experience that shows that Flash is, in fact, a resource hog on a Mac.
I had run a couple of YouTube Flash videos... all had completed... only one open window had a Flash player in it... the Flash player was not running:
This was run on a 2.8GHz Intel Core 2 Duo iMac 24 with 4GB RAM
This person, agrees with this Jobs truth, because it is consistent with my own experience.
.
Excellent post. (I am reposting the picture because people should see it again).
Sometimes (esp. on the AI website, much to my chagrin), Activity Monitor shows 120% - 140% of CPU!!
In no way am I saying that the complaints are made up. The complaints are legitimate, and long standing.
OTOH, given the history of mac users and adobe, and all of the bad blood, do you believe that if Adobe optimized their software so that it ran smoothly and bug free on Mac OSX, that Mac users would suddenly embrace Adobe and its products, and that all would be forgiven?
no. i'm not saying that. i said that if adobe had been more pro-active in getting flash on osx up to snuff years ago, there would have been a much better chance in getting flash on the iphone.
we were all speculating if flash would be part of the iphone in 2007, and at the time there was no definite 'no. never. not ever.' coming from apple (iirc). i think steve jobs' comments (resource hog, battery life, cpu killer) didn't surface until later, probably after adobe showed them work in progress (admittedly pure speculation on my part).
i seem to recall that jobs was dismissing flash lite pretty much right away as 'useless'. maybe we read too much into it at the time, but adobe was talking a lot about bringing a full flash version for mobiles out. it was just around the corner. and has been for three years now.
we have to remember also that at the time of the iphone launch, nobody could have predicted it to be a runaway success. i'm sure that apple is more confident now than they were back then and have adjusted their roadmap accordingly. three years of no-flash iphone sales do prove that apple doesn't need flash.
if adobe pulls it off, they might want it at some point. time will tell. i wouldn't bet money on it.
Can you say the same for Flash?
Have you tried?
What's 'Flash?'
Saviour of the Universe.
Where have you been for the last couple of decades, anyway?
Given the fact that Adobe got their start with Mac People, why would they suddenly turn on Adobe? Mac People must be mentally unstable.
some of us 'mentally unstable mac people' just have memories that last longer than the average youtube video!
now get off my lawn!
You just described the App Store.
i don't think this is about video playback. that train has left the platform. 3 years of iphone, and the support for other solutions by youtube/vimeo and maybe soon hulu prove that you don't need flash for that. i don't think adobe was pushing their flash-to-iphone development platform to put more flash video online.
What's this hulu thing? Remember 96% of the worlds population doesn't care about a restricted US product. At the moment the local TV streaming available here is still Flash, and while flash is a resource hog, a massive resource hog, a damn pig of a resource hog, it seems to be a lot more reliable than HTML5 via Safari on Youtube
h264 is licensed free until 2015 (?) i think. i sure hope we're not going to drag out this discussion until then...
No, but in 2015 when everyone is using h.264 what happens when the mpeg-la starts passing the hat around?