They're totally onboard as far I know. Truthfully, absolutely every web developer I know is too, html4 is dead! All these big announcements "We see html5 as the way of the future!", really, is kinda funny really. Of course html5 is future, did they think we'd keep using html4??
html5 asaik, isn't reaching candidate status until 2012. Yet many are calling this whole thing as all wrapped up and done as of today.
No, I mean more than that... Something like: "Let Adobe help you migrate your [web] technology to the latest standard" "Flash to HTML5" go to where your customers will be... be ready when they arrive!
Get used to it. The root word of "AppleInsider" is "Apple": As the poster you replied to was honest enough to note, anyone who disagrees with Steve Jobs here will be attacked, and defense will not be tolerated.
I am all for it as long as it's standard based, and not require a plugin.
I tried to use the one on one reservation system through the latest chrome beta and it wouldn't work. Asked me to use safari 3. If this was standards based, shouldn't it run on other browsers and not just safari ?
I tried to use the one on one reservation system through the latest chrome beta and it wouldn't work. Asked me to use safari 3. If this was standards based, shouldn't it run on other browsers and not just safari ?
That's a good question. What does Safari 3 have that the latest version of Chrome does not? Off the top of my head...
It could be as simple as Apple making an artificial limitation simply so they don't have to worry about cross browser incompatibilites, even minor ones.
Or, it could be something very specific they they've included in Safari and use because it's easier to code. Not necessarily something in the Giandula framework, which itself may be compliant.
Or, maybe Apple is planning this for the future of web development, using experimental JS functions (for example) for semi-internal testing that it may one present to gain wide adoption.
I'm sure there are many angles to look at it, but it seems clear that whatever Gainduia (the iPhone does not like that word, couldn't even select the letters in the right order) is it will have to at least work on Chrome and Firefox.
Get used to it. The root word of "AppleInsider" is "Apple": As the poster you replied to was honest enough to note, anyone who disagrees with Steve Jobs here will be attacked, and defense will not be tolerated.
Mmmm.... I am the poster he replied to.
My first encounter with Steve Jobs was when I was giving a demo of the Apple ][ to a group of about 20 people in my store* in Sunnyvale, CA in 1979. A voice from behind me said "You're doing it all wrong!"... and SJ came up and gave the best Apple ][ demo I ever saw! (AIR, no "Boom").
* owned with 2 partners.
Some time later, I posted publicly that "the 3 best things that ever happened to Apple were: 1) SJ founding Apple with WOZ; 2) SJ maneuvered into quitting by Sculley; 3) SJ returning to Apple."
There was a story being told by Apple management before SJ was ousted from management--
Question: "How is Apple different from The Boy Scouts Of America?"
Answer: "One of them has adult supervision!"
I also publicly stated that the true force responsible for the early success of Apple Computer was the businessman Mike Markkula, who put together a company that attracted the likes of Scottie, Gene Carter, Wil Houd, etc!
I still believe that!... and yes, you can criticize SJ and Apple on this site!
Here, I disagree! I think we have, all-of-a-sudden, reached a point where everyone wakes up and says: "Of course! That's the way it it is supposed to be".
The battle of the techies is over... millions of users, who could care less "how"... will buy "what".
The guy who buys a minivan and demurs on the $1500 entertainment package to buy 2 iPads that do more (and pockets $500). This is happening today!
Grandma/Grandpa, who forget more than we'll ever know, now have something that does what they want it to do-- their way! This is happening today!
The salesman of anything, who really understands his products and customers... but this computer thingie comes between them and muddies the water.... Now, he can "strut his stuff" and the customer can enjoy the show. This is happening today!
The battle never was about Flash, Silverlight, OS X, Windows, CP/M, CoBOL...
It's enabling the end user, stupid! (not you in particular, but all of us).
Sure, and there lies the success of apple, having risen from pretty much near obsolescence. I continue to enjoy the mac platform, but don't kid yourself, it may seem like we're the only ones on the block and rah rah we're victorious, windows still owns 90% and even though their mobile platform sucked so hard it wasn't funny, they still managed to have decent numbers. I attended the last major mobile developers conference about almost a year ago. apple wasn't even there, the excitement was at apple, blackberry, nokia and google. The poor guy at the microsoft table wasn't getting any love at all.
However, a look at the recent growth numbers, shows 2 platforms growing currently. iphone, and android. Guess which is growing fastest? nope, Android. Yes indeed, I will tell you this is FAR from over, and calling this at this stage of the game, is very short sighted, trust me. I can guarantee you, Mr. Jobs isn't considering this a done deal by any means at all. I bet he sees this, as very much emerging. Didn't apple have the wind in it's sails, and a vastly superior platform the last time? I recall many mac users telling me then, it was over. I'd say, that's a mistake not to make again.
The major players will be apple, google, nokia, and microsoft. My opinion. I think act II is on it's way... I really do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
No, I mean more than that... Something like: "Let Adobe help you migrate your [web] technology to the latest standard" "Flash to HTML5" go to where your customers will be... be ready when they arrive!
.
It isn't the latest "standard" though. It's "proposed". As I said, it won't reach candidate status until 2012.I know flash haters are desperate to have this a standard NOW and come on baby let's soot us some flash guys!, but back to the reality of things... I don't know why people aren't wise to this. Yes general features we surmise will be a part of the official standard years down the road are being utilized, and supported, but let's face it we're all tired of html4, ajax etc., we want the next level, NOW. The next couple years, -will- be about technologies becoming standards , and in the case of flash, finding if it can still remain relevant in the new spaces. I still say, calling things now, is far, far too early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Jesus H! Your very post to TenoBell was filled with smarmy comments including "...until Steve Jobs wants you to believe it..." Now you're the victim?
Well it's true. Any developer I have spoken to, all agree Steve Job's comments were not wholly accurate. I suppose it depends on where you sit on how you personally want things to play out. I openly admit, I like flash, have developed in it for well over 10 years (since flash 3), and would be sad to see a great development platform go down because it wasn't kept current enough. I don't have any control over adobe, I nearly gave up a year ago after watching them sit on their hands, but after what I've seen at recent conferences, I have reason to believe they may be, very much still in the game. I think if you hate flash though, that's not what you want to hear.
But I can post links, share what I see firsthand and what I know as a developer all I like, but it won't make a lick of difference if all I'm faced with are outdated links, links to tablets trying to play an outdated desktop version of flash, and a barrage of half truths no one has the energy to try and dispel.
There is no doubt apple will play a serious role in the emerging platforms, but I think it's too early to call as I said. There are seriously deep pockets that want in the new platforms, and aren't about to concede to apple by any means, and SJ knows it. However, SJ will only be around for so long, unfortunately, and as well are aware of, any of these companies need a strong visionary to keep the pace. Have a look at what's transpired over at microsoft with monkey boy at the helm...
Some time later, I posted publicly that "the 3 best things that ever happened to Apple were: 1) SJ founding Apple with WOZ; 2) SJ maneuvered into quitting by Sculley; 3) SJ returning to Apple."
You forgot #4: the promotion of Jonathan Ive to VP in charge of the designs that powered Apple's comeback:
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming.
I don't think anyone's going to LET Apple continue to grow - any more than Sony or other MP3 manufacturers LET Apple dominate the MP3 market.
Apple has created a solid niche for itself by building an ecosystem built around ease of use. No one LET them do that. Until others learn from Apple, they don't have a chance of taking that away. All the initial tablet offerings ("but ours will have a full version of Windows 7, 6 USB ports, 3 media card slots, and a parallel and serial port") indicated that they haven't learned (although the cancellation of Courier and the HP slate indicates that MAYBE they're listening).
It has nothing to do with how deep your pockets are. Palm had very deep pockets at one point. MIcrosoft has incredibly deep pockets, but just dropped Courier. Deep pockets don't matter - vision does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
despite some impressive statements, which is great, but let's face reality again.
macs are still under 10%, iphones are still only at 16%.
I love the way uninformed people throw percentages around without understanding them.
10% of WHAT?
Apple sells about 90% of all premium (over $1 K) PCs.
Apple has about 35% of the ENTIRE PC INDUSTRY's profits.
They don't sell disposable, junkware $299 PCs, but as a shareholder and customer, I don't want them to.
iPhones are 16% of WHAT?
They account for 50-70% of ALL mobile internet access.
By one account, they account for 99% of all mobile application purchases (although I don't believe that figure, they undoubtedly account for the majority).
Then there's their mind share. You can pretty well predict what the rest of the industry will be emphasizing in 2 years by looking at what Apple sells today.
The point is that Apple isn't in the 'our market share is greater than yours' game. They are building niche, high quality, consumer-oriented products for discerning customers. Simply throwing out a market share figure is completely irrelevant.
You are only looking at it from unit sales. Which are important, but not the only metric. If you are a web developer or app developer. You are going to be looking at which device is going to get the most hits on your web site or which device is going to get your app downloaded the most. For that the iPhone beats all the rest combined by a country mile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
despite some impressive statements, which is great, but let's face reality again.
macs are still under 10%, iphones are still only at 16%.
rim, google, nokia, win, combined, still whacks iphone's share by a country mile.
Disclaimer:
Now let's not get excited. I'm merely stating some balance here. I like my macs and have 2 iphones.
I don't think anyone's going to LET Apple continue to grow - any more than Sony or other MP3 manufacturers LET Apple dominate the MP3 market.
Apple has created a solid niche for itself by building an ecosystem built around ease of use. No one LET them do that. Until others learn from Apple, they don't have a chance of taking that away. All the initial tablet offerings ("but ours will have a full version of Windows 7, 6 USB ports, 3 media card slots, and a parallel and serial port") indicated that they haven't learned (although the cancellation of Courier and the HP slate indicates that MAYBE they're listening).
It has nothing to do with how deep your pockets are. Palm had very deep pockets at one point. MIcrosoft has incredibly deep pockets, but just dropped Courier. Deep pockets don't matter - vision does.
I don't disagree. Money is simply, the admission price to the challenge. Apple clearly, as evidenced by the number of macs I personally own (I'm pre ordering the ipad this morning since it's finally available in Canuckistan), got things right, microsoft is currently playing catchup in the desktop space. Never mind mobile...
I love the way uninformed people throw percentages around without understanding them.
10% of WHAT?
Apple sells about 90% of all premium (over $1 K) PCs.
Apple has about 35% of the ENTIRE PC INDUSTRY's profits.
They don't sell disposable, junkware $299 PCs, but as a shareholder and customer, I don't want them to.
iPhones are 16% of WHAT?
They account for 50-70% of ALL mobile internet access.
By one account, they account for 99% of all mobile application purchases (although I don't believe that figure, they undoubtedly account for the majority).
Then there's their mind share. You can pretty well predict what the rest of the industry will be emphasizing in 2 years by looking at what Apple sells today.
The point is that Apple isn't in the 'our market share is greater than yours' game. They are building niche, high quality, consumer-oriented products for discerning customers. Simply throwing out a market share figure is completely irrelevant.
ok. What's not to understand here. You throw uninformed at me, then proceed to throw a whole bunch of numbers, which have pretty much zero meaning to a developer targeting, an audience.
How exactly, does the fact that a large number of people spend more dollars, affect real hard number of bodies you reach with your online whatever. (website/ad campaign etc).
And 16%, is 16% of the smartphone marketshare currently. Meaning, 84%, are NOT iphones. Nokia leads with almost 40% globally, followed by rim, at nearly 20%. And watch google, because they doubled last year, and are considered to have the highest growth rate currently. Even microsoft
So I very much know what I'm talking about, and am quite informed thanks. There are some stats there that clearly show, advertisers only targeting apple devices currently, are really selling themselves short. I suspect this will become more apparent as the other platforms mature and have learned from apple's success.
You are only looking at it from unit sales. Which are important, but not the only metric. If you are a web developer or app developer. You are going to be looking at which device is going to get the most hits on your web site or which device is going to get your app downloaded the most. For that the iPhone beats all the rest combined by a country mile.
you are talking about apps. I wasn't talking about targeting users with apps.
I'm talking about targeting the most users with a website, or ad campaign. Apps, are but one method of delivery, albeit a good one.
Make no mistake, before my statements once again get twisted and spit back out to mean what I never said, and I'm called a liar again...
I am not suggesting apple isn;t a huge market to target. Of course they are. But to put things into perspective, they are by far not the only game in town. Though, they are currently, likely the most organized as a platform, which makes it more attractive, not based on it's numbers alone.
ok. What's not to understand here. You throw uninformed at me, then proceed to throw a whole bunch of numbers, which have pretty much zero meaning to a developer targeting, an audience.
How exactly, does the fact that a large number of people spend more dollars, affect real hard number of bodies you reach with your online whatever. (website/ad campaign etc).
And 16%, is 16% of the smartphone marketshare currently. Meaning, 84%, are NOT iphones. Nokia leads with almost 40% globally, followed by rim, at nearly 20%. And watch google, because they doubled last year, and are considered to have the highest growth rate currently. Even microsoft
So I very much know what I'm talking about, and am quite informed thanks. There are some stats there that clearly show, advertisers only targeting apple devices currently, are really selling themselves short. I suspect this will become more apparent as the other platforms mature and have learned from apple's success.
That's a great idea of why your posts are worthless. You're confusing desktop sales with mobile sales. No one is suggesting that Flash is going to disappear from Mac desktops. The issue is mobile devices. If you want to look at whether Flash is important on mobile devices, you look at the amount of Internet access FROM MOBILE DEVICES, not desktops.
Apple has something like 75% of ALL MOBILE INTERNET ACCESS according to the most recent reports. Ignoring that would be insane.
my posts are "worthless". Well. According to you anyway.
And,you need to learn to stop just googling for numbers or links that imply or appear to support your position.
Iphones, do NOT have 75% of ALL MOBILE INTERNET ACCESS.
That, is a bald faced lie.
Currently, we are aware that iphones, account for just over 50% of internet requests.
I know Americans feel they're the only country in the world, but, there -is- a world market out there too.
Now again, before you get too too excited, nowhere did I say the iphone wasn't a huge market not to be very much taken seriously in an ad campaign strategy.
That's some worldwide numbers for you. Note androids growth in the past year. Also note, that only targeting iphone users, cuts out pretty half your audience.
No one cares much about Nokia, Symibian is a totally unfocused mess right now.
RIM's development platform is not that great and its browser completely sucks. But its making strides on improvement.
Palm has a great OS and a great development platform that is largely ignored. Hopefully HP will take advantage of its potential.
Android has the most potential to compete with the iPhone OS. Androids biggest strength and weakness is that its open source. Which is making it a fragmented platform with different phones that have different functionality and different versions of the OS.
Despite the fact that people complain about Apple's control of the iPhone. This control gives the iPhone platform a clarity, organization, and purpose that none of the others have. And is why the platform is so successful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
I am not suggesting apple isn;t a huge market to target. Of course they are. But to put things into perspective, they are by far not the only game in town. Though, they are currently, likely the most organized as a platform, which makes it more attractive, not based on it's numbers alone.
You are right not the iPhone by itself. But when you include the iPod Touch, mobile safari does hold about 65% of the mobile web market share. Now with the iPad, by quarter 3 of the year mobile safari will likely hold about 75%.
I think whats most important about your link is how fast mobile internet access in general is growing. Its now 48% of all worldwide traffic. Mobile device sales are growing twice as fast as PC sales. And guess what rules mobile devices? HTML5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
Iphones, do NOT have 75% of ALL MOBILE INTERNET ACCESS.
No one cares much about Nokia, Symibian is a totally unfocused mess right now.
RIM's development platform is not that great and its browser completely sucks. But its making strides on improvement.
Palm has a great OS and a great development platform that is largely ignored. Hopefully HP will take advantage of its potential.
Android has the most potential to compete with the iPhone OS. Androids biggest strength and weakness is that its open source. Which is making it a fragmented platform with different phones that have different functionality and different versions of the OS.
Despite the fact that people complain about Apple's control of the iPhone. This control gives the iPhone platform a clarity, organization, and purpose that none of the others have. And is why the platform is so successful.
Well that's a rather narrow view isn't it? One can take any sampling, set of numbers, and spin anyway they like.
Oh, only mobile sites, and apps! Like that isn't skewing things just a wee bit now isn't it. Why don't you go a step further, and say only apps! Then you can screech 100%!! We are the champions!
You are right not the iPhone by itself. But when you include the iPod Touch, mobile safari does hold about 65% of the mobile web market share. Now with the iPad, by quarter 3 of the year mobile safari will likely hole about 75%.
that still doesn't tell me there are more iphone users specifically to target, just that iphone users surf more. Certainly a valuable stat, (I seem to need to disclaimer anything that may be taken somewhat negative...) There are still, only one pair of eyes on that screen
How can such a huge country be so insular? I hereby apologize to the rest of the freaking world on behalf of my fellow countrymen who have evidently neither heard of nor tasted gianduia. They have no clue what they're missing. They need to get out more.
Comments
That's makes no sense.
Precisely.
They're totally onboard as far I know. Truthfully, absolutely every web developer I know is too, html4 is dead! All these big announcements "We see html5 as the way of the future!", really, is kinda funny really. Of course html5 is future, did they think we'd keep using html4??
html5 asaik, isn't reaching candidate status until 2012. Yet many are calling this whole thing as all wrapped up and done as of today.
No, I mean more than that... Something like: "Let Adobe help you migrate your [web] technology to the latest standard" "Flash to HTML5" go to where your customers will be... be ready when they arrive!
.
i'll keep that under advisement.
Sorry, when attacked, I have fangs too.
Get used to it. The root word of "AppleInsider" is "Apple": As the poster you replied to was honest enough to note, anyone who disagrees with Steve Jobs here will be attacked, and defense will not be tolerated.
i'll keep that under advisement.
Sorry, when attacked, I have fangs too.
Jesus H! Your very post to TenoBell was filled with smarmy comments including "...until Steve Jobs wants you to believe it..." Now you're the victim?
I am all for it as long as it's standard based, and not require a plugin.
I tried to use the one on one reservation system through the latest chrome beta and it wouldn't work. Asked me to use safari 3. If this was standards based, shouldn't it run on other browsers and not just safari ?
I tried to use the one on one reservation system through the latest chrome beta and it wouldn't work. Asked me to use safari 3. If this was standards based, shouldn't it run on other browsers and not just safari ?
That's a good question. What does Safari 3 have that the latest version of Chrome does not? Off the top of my head...
It could be as simple as Apple making an artificial limitation simply so they don't have to worry about cross browser incompatibilites, even minor ones.
Or, it could be something very specific they they've included in Safari and use because it's easier to code. Not necessarily something in the Giandula framework, which itself may be compliant.
Or, maybe Apple is planning this for the future of web development, using experimental JS functions (for example) for semi-internal testing that it may one present to gain wide adoption.
I'm sure there are many angles to look at it, but it seems clear that whatever Gainduia (the iPhone does not like that word, couldn't even select the letters in the right order) is it will have to at least work on Chrome and Firefox.
Get used to it. The root word of "AppleInsider" is "Apple": As the poster you replied to was honest enough to note, anyone who disagrees with Steve Jobs here will be attacked, and defense will not be tolerated.
Mmmm.... I am the poster he replied to.
My first encounter with Steve Jobs was when I was giving a demo of the Apple ][ to a group of about 20 people in my store* in Sunnyvale, CA in 1979. A voice from behind me said "You're doing it all wrong!"... and SJ came up and gave the best Apple ][ demo I ever saw! (AIR, no "Boom").
* owned with 2 partners.
Some time later, I posted publicly that "the 3 best things that ever happened to Apple were: 1) SJ founding Apple with WOZ; 2) SJ maneuvered into quitting by Sculley; 3) SJ returning to Apple."
There was a story being told by Apple management before SJ was ousted from management--
Question: "How is Apple different from The Boy Scouts Of America?"
Answer: "One of them has adult supervision!"
I also publicly stated that the true force responsible for the early success of Apple Computer was the businessman Mike Markkula, who put together a company that attracted the likes of Scottie, Gene Carter, Wil Houd, etc!
I still believe that!... and yes, you can criticize SJ and Apple on this site!
.
Here, I disagree! I think we have, all-of-a-sudden, reached a point where everyone wakes up and says: "Of course! That's the way it it is supposed to be".
The battle of the techies is over... millions of users, who could care less "how"... will buy "what".
The guy who buys a minivan and demurs on the $1500 entertainment package to buy 2 iPads that do more (and pockets $500). This is happening today!
Grandma/Grandpa, who forget more than we'll ever know, now have something that does what they want it to do-- their way! This is happening today!
The salesman of anything, who really understands his products and customers... but this computer thingie comes between them and muddies the water.... Now, he can "strut his stuff" and the customer can enjoy the show. This is happening today!
The battle never was about Flash, Silverlight, OS X, Windows, CP/M, CoBOL...
It's enabling the end user, stupid! (not you in particular, but all of us).
If you want to see what enablement is all about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50L44hEtVos
.
Sure, and there lies the success of apple, having risen from pretty much near obsolescence. I continue to enjoy the mac platform, but don't kid yourself, it may seem like we're the only ones on the block and rah rah we're victorious, windows still owns 90% and even though their mobile platform sucked so hard it wasn't funny, they still managed to have decent numbers. I attended the last major mobile developers conference about almost a year ago. apple wasn't even there, the excitement was at apple, blackberry, nokia and google. The poor guy at the microsoft table wasn't getting any love at all.
However, a look at the recent growth numbers, shows 2 platforms growing currently. iphone, and android. Guess which is growing fastest? nope, Android. Yes indeed, I will tell you this is FAR from over, and calling this at this stage of the game, is very short sighted, trust me. I can guarantee you, Mr. Jobs isn't considering this a done deal by any means at all. I bet he sees this, as very much emerging. Didn't apple have the wind in it's sails, and a vastly superior platform the last time? I recall many mac users telling me then, it was over. I'd say, that's a mistake not to make again.
The major players will be apple, google, nokia, and microsoft. My opinion. I think act II is on it's way... I really do.
No, I mean more than that... Something like: "Let Adobe help you migrate your [web] technology to the latest standard" "Flash to HTML5" go to where your customers will be... be ready when they arrive!
.
It isn't the latest "standard" though. It's "proposed". As I said, it won't reach candidate status until 2012.I know flash haters are desperate to have this a standard NOW and come on baby let's soot us some flash guys!, but back to the reality of things... I don't know why people aren't wise to this. Yes general features we surmise will be a part of the official standard years down the road are being utilized, and supported, but let's face it we're all tired of html4, ajax etc., we want the next level, NOW. The next couple years, -will- be about technologies becoming standards , and in the case of flash, finding if it can still remain relevant in the new spaces. I still say, calling things now, is far, far too early.
Jesus H! Your very post to TenoBell was filled with smarmy comments including "...until Steve Jobs wants you to believe it..." Now you're the victim?
Well it's true. Any developer I have spoken to, all agree Steve Job's comments were not wholly accurate. I suppose it depends on where you sit on how you personally want things to play out. I openly admit, I like flash, have developed in it for well over 10 years (since flash 3), and would be sad to see a great development platform go down because it wasn't kept current enough. I don't have any control over adobe, I nearly gave up a year ago after watching them sit on their hands, but after what I've seen at recent conferences, I have reason to believe they may be, very much still in the game. I think if you hate flash though, that's not what you want to hear.
But I can post links, share what I see firsthand and what I know as a developer all I like, but it won't make a lick of difference if all I'm faced with are outdated links, links to tablets trying to play an outdated desktop version of flash, and a barrage of half truths no one has the energy to try and dispel.
There is no doubt apple will play a serious role in the emerging platforms, but I think it's too early to call as I said. There are seriously deep pockets that want in the new platforms, and aren't about to concede to apple by any means, and SJ knows it. However, SJ will only be around for so long, unfortunately, and as well are aware of, any of these companies need a strong visionary to keep the pace. Have a look at what's transpired over at microsoft with monkey boy at the helm...
Some time later, I posted publicly that "the 3 best things that ever happened to Apple were: 1) SJ founding Apple with WOZ; 2) SJ maneuvered into quitting by Sculley; 3) SJ returning to Apple."
You forgot #4: the promotion of Jonathan Ive to VP in charge of the designs that powered Apple's comeback:
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=3000947
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming.
I don't think anyone's going to LET Apple continue to grow - any more than Sony or other MP3 manufacturers LET Apple dominate the MP3 market.
Apple has created a solid niche for itself by building an ecosystem built around ease of use. No one LET them do that. Until others learn from Apple, they don't have a chance of taking that away. All the initial tablet offerings ("but ours will have a full version of Windows 7, 6 USB ports, 3 media card slots, and a parallel and serial port") indicated that they haven't learned (although the cancellation of Courier and the HP slate indicates that MAYBE they're listening).
It has nothing to do with how deep your pockets are. Palm had very deep pockets at one point. MIcrosoft has incredibly deep pockets, but just dropped Courier. Deep pockets don't matter - vision does.
despite some impressive statements, which is great, but let's face reality again.
macs are still under 10%, iphones are still only at 16%.
I love the way uninformed people throw percentages around without understanding them.
10% of WHAT?
Apple sells about 90% of all premium (over $1 K) PCs.
Apple has about 35% of the ENTIRE PC INDUSTRY's profits.
They don't sell disposable, junkware $299 PCs, but as a shareholder and customer, I don't want them to.
iPhones are 16% of WHAT?
They account for 50-70% of ALL mobile internet access.
By one account, they account for 99% of all mobile application purchases (although I don't believe that figure, they undoubtedly account for the majority).
Then there's their mind share. You can pretty well predict what the rest of the industry will be emphasizing in 2 years by looking at what Apple sells today.
The point is that Apple isn't in the 'our market share is greater than yours' game. They are building niche, high quality, consumer-oriented products for discerning customers. Simply throwing out a market share figure is completely irrelevant.
despite some impressive statements, which is great, but let's face reality again.
macs are still under 10%, iphones are still only at 16%.
rim, google, nokia, win, combined, still whacks iphone's share by a country mile.
Disclaimer:
Now let's not get excited. I'm merely stating some balance here. I like my macs and have 2 iphones.
I don't think anyone's going to LET Apple continue to grow - any more than Sony or other MP3 manufacturers LET Apple dominate the MP3 market.
Apple has created a solid niche for itself by building an ecosystem built around ease of use. No one LET them do that. Until others learn from Apple, they don't have a chance of taking that away. All the initial tablet offerings ("but ours will have a full version of Windows 7, 6 USB ports, 3 media card slots, and a parallel and serial port") indicated that they haven't learned (although the cancellation of Courier and the HP slate indicates that MAYBE they're listening).
It has nothing to do with how deep your pockets are. Palm had very deep pockets at one point. MIcrosoft has incredibly deep pockets, but just dropped Courier. Deep pockets don't matter - vision does.
I don't disagree. Money is simply, the admission price to the challenge. Apple clearly, as evidenced by the number of macs I personally own (I'm pre ordering the ipad this morning since it's finally available in Canuckistan), got things right, microsoft is currently playing catchup in the desktop space. Never mind mobile...
I love the way uninformed people throw percentages around without understanding them.
10% of WHAT?
Apple sells about 90% of all premium (over $1 K) PCs.
Apple has about 35% of the ENTIRE PC INDUSTRY's profits.
They don't sell disposable, junkware $299 PCs, but as a shareholder and customer, I don't want them to.
iPhones are 16% of WHAT?
They account for 50-70% of ALL mobile internet access.
By one account, they account for 99% of all mobile application purchases (although I don't believe that figure, they undoubtedly account for the majority).
Then there's their mind share. You can pretty well predict what the rest of the industry will be emphasizing in 2 years by looking at what Apple sells today.
The point is that Apple isn't in the 'our market share is greater than yours' game. They are building niche, high quality, consumer-oriented products for discerning customers. Simply throwing out a market share figure is completely irrelevant.
ok. What's not to understand here. You throw uninformed at me, then proceed to throw a whole bunch of numbers, which have pretty much zero meaning to a developer targeting, an audience.
How exactly, does the fact that a large number of people spend more dollars, affect real hard number of bodies you reach with your online whatever. (website/ad campaign etc).
Look here: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp You will see that someone developing something online, almost 93% are NOT macs, despite all that premium we are king stats.
And 16%, is 16% of the smartphone marketshare currently. Meaning, 84%, are NOT iphones. Nokia leads with almost 40% globally, followed by rim, at nearly 20%. And watch google, because they doubled last year, and are considered to have the highest growth rate currently. Even microsoft
So I very much know what I'm talking about, and am quite informed thanks. There are some stats there that clearly show, advertisers only targeting apple devices currently, are really selling themselves short. I suspect this will become more apparent as the other platforms mature and have learned from apple's success.
You are only looking at it from unit sales. Which are important, but not the only metric. If you are a web developer or app developer. You are going to be looking at which device is going to get the most hits on your web site or which device is going to get your app downloaded the most. For that the iPhone beats all the rest combined by a country mile.
you are talking about apps. I wasn't talking about targeting users with apps.
I'm talking about targeting the most users with a website, or ad campaign. Apps, are but one method of delivery, albeit a good one.
Make no mistake, before my statements once again get twisted and spit back out to mean what I never said, and I'm called a liar again...
I am not suggesting apple isn;t a huge market to target. Of course they are. But to put things into perspective, they are by far not the only game in town. Though, they are currently, likely the most organized as a platform, which makes it more attractive, not based on it's numbers alone.
ok. What's not to understand here. You throw uninformed at me, then proceed to throw a whole bunch of numbers, which have pretty much zero meaning to a developer targeting, an audience.
How exactly, does the fact that a large number of people spend more dollars, affect real hard number of bodies you reach with your online whatever. (website/ad campaign etc).
Look here: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp You will see that someone developing something online, almost 93% are NOT macs, despite all that premium we are king stats.
And 16%, is 16% of the smartphone marketshare currently. Meaning, 84%, are NOT iphones. Nokia leads with almost 40% globally, followed by rim, at nearly 20%. And watch google, because they doubled last year, and are considered to have the highest growth rate currently. Even microsoft
So I very much know what I'm talking about, and am quite informed thanks. There are some stats there that clearly show, advertisers only targeting apple devices currently, are really selling themselves short. I suspect this will become more apparent as the other platforms mature and have learned from apple's success.
That's a great idea of why your posts are worthless. You're confusing desktop sales with mobile sales. No one is suggesting that Flash is going to disappear from Mac desktops. The issue is mobile devices. If you want to look at whether Flash is important on mobile devices, you look at the amount of Internet access FROM MOBILE DEVICES, not desktops.
Apple has something like 75% of ALL MOBILE INTERNET ACCESS according to the most recent reports. Ignoring that would be insane.
And,you need to learn to stop just googling for numbers or links that imply or appear to support your position.
Iphones, do NOT have 75% of ALL MOBILE INTERNET ACCESS.
That, is a bald faced lie.
Currently, we are aware that iphones, account for just over 50% of internet requests.
I know Americans feel they're the only country in the world, but, there -is- a world market out there too.
Now again, before you get too too excited, nowhere did I say the iphone wasn't a huge market not to be very much taken seriously in an ad campaign strategy.
Here. a present for you. http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/25/adm...phone-traffic/
That's some worldwide numbers for you. Note androids growth in the past year. Also note, that only targeting iphone users, cuts out pretty half your audience.
No one cares much about Nokia, Symibian is a totally unfocused mess right now.
RIM's development platform is not that great and its browser completely sucks. But its making strides on improvement.
Palm has a great OS and a great development platform that is largely ignored. Hopefully HP will take advantage of its potential.
Android has the most potential to compete with the iPhone OS. Androids biggest strength and weakness is that its open source. Which is making it a fragmented platform with different phones that have different functionality and different versions of the OS.
Despite the fact that people complain about Apple's control of the iPhone. This control gives the iPhone platform a clarity, organization, and purpose that none of the others have. And is why the platform is so successful.
I am not suggesting apple isn;t a huge market to target. Of course they are. But to put things into perspective, they are by far not the only game in town. Though, they are currently, likely the most organized as a platform, which makes it more attractive, not based on it's numbers alone.
I think whats most important about your link is how fast mobile internet access in general is growing. Its now 48% of all worldwide traffic. Mobile device sales are growing twice as fast as PC sales. And guess what rules mobile devices? HTML5
Iphones, do NOT have 75% of ALL MOBILE INTERNET ACCESS.
That, is a bald faced lie.
I'm talking about mobile websites and apps.
No one cares much about Nokia, Symibian is a totally unfocused mess right now.
RIM's development platform is not that great and its browser completely sucks. But its making strides on improvement.
Palm has a great OS and a great development platform that is largely ignored. Hopefully HP will take advantage of its potential.
Android has the most potential to compete with the iPhone OS. Androids biggest strength and weakness is that its open source. Which is making it a fragmented platform with different phones that have different functionality and different versions of the OS.
Despite the fact that people complain about Apple's control of the iPhone. This control gives the iPhone platform a clarity, organization, and purpose that none of the others have. And is why the platform is so successful.
Well that's a rather narrow view isn't it? One can take any sampling, set of numbers, and spin anyway they like.
Oh, only mobile sites, and apps! Like that isn't skewing things just a wee bit now isn't it. Why don't you go a step further, and say only apps! Then you can screech 100%!! We are the champions!
And then you go off calling my posts "worthless".
You are right not the iPhone by itself. But when you include the iPod Touch, mobile safari does hold about 65% of the mobile web market share. Now with the iPad, by quarter 3 of the year mobile safari will likely hole about 75%.
that still doesn't tell me there are more iphone users specifically to target, just that iphone users surf more. Certainly a valuable stat, (I seem to need to disclaimer anything that may be taken somewhat negative...) There are still, only one pair of eyes on that screen