ok, Wow. I think you took that a little too personally. It did sound, like you were trying to sell me on it. So, hence, a bit like a commercial. I'm sorry if that offended you. I merely said you are preaching, to the converted. You don't need, to sell me on the iphone platform! I'm already sold! (I bought 2 iphones!)
I hope this clarifies things for you.
Whether you realize it or not, your response is flippant, patronizing and condescending... Normally, I'd just let it pass, but this typifies, my frustration with your, otherwise, valid points.
If we are talking about truth, then it needs to be pointed out that you are spinning it fairly hard here.
Yes, it's technically true that Adobe is part of the team working very hard on HTML5, but you fail to mention that they are at the same time, working to push the HTML5 group away from using or developing the "Canvas" elementwhich is the part of HTML5 that would basically replace Flash animations on the web.
The Canvas element is nowhere near like Flash, and anybody that has done Flash work would know that. Flash is a timeline-based development tool, not a 2D drawing tool with JS hooks like canvas. Just to create a square in a <canvas> tag that can move across the screen takes a fair amount of JavaScript code, whereas in Flash you can create it with a timeline editor. You could theoretically make an application that spit out JS code and a canvas object, but such a tool is very difficult to create because of inherent limitations in the canvas tag and the JS code; most importantly is that the canvas tag is a rendering canvas, and therefore manipulation of the bitmaps therein is very difficult. CAKE and other tools attempt to rectify this, but they are buggy, especially on Firefox, and suffer from performance problems when dealing with a number of elements.
Fact of the matter is, Flash is still the only way to create animations quickly & easily, especially ones that have to work on 4 different browser platforms (Safari, Firefox, IE 6, IE 7/8). For example I personally know some of the people that created heavily Flash-based Web sites. The route map for the new United (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/route-map) and community map (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/community-map) were created in a couple of days after the initial concept design. It's not even possible to do what they did in HTML5, let alone "in a couple of days".
The Canvas element is nowhere near like Flash, and anybody that has done Flash work would know that. Flash is a timeline-based development tool, not a 2D drawing tool with JS hooks like canvas. Just to create a square in a <canvas> tag that can move across the screen takes a fair amount of JavaScript code, whereas in Flash you can create it with a timeline editor. You could theoretically make an application that spit out JS code and a canvas object, but such a tool is very difficult to create because of inherent limitations in the canvas tag and the JS code; most importantly is that the canvas tag is a rendering canvas, and therefore manipulation of the bitmaps therein is very difficult. CAKE and other tools attempt to rectify this, but they are buggy, especially on Firefox, and suffer from performance problems when dealing with a number of elements.
Fact of the matter is, Flash is still the only way to create animations quickly & easily, especially ones that have to work on 4 different browser platforms (Safari, Firefox, IE 6, IE 7/8). For example I personally know some of the people that created heavily Flash-based Web sites. The route map for the new United (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/route-map) and community map (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/community-map) were created in a couple of days after the initial concept design. It's not even possible to do what they did in HTML5, let alone "in a couple of days".
What?
I didn't find anything compelling about those animations!
It's been 10 years since I did any serious web development, but back then we used image maps (the standard HTML map and area tags along with a little JavaScript,
The map tag has been around since 1996 according to the wiki:
There are free tools available (online or download) to help you create interactive image maps.
What you say took a couple of days with Flash could easily be done in HTML2, in the same time or less... and it would run on any standards-compliant browser without plugins
Fact of the matter is, Flash is still the only way to create animations quickly & easily, especially ones that have to work on 4 different browser platforms (Safari, Firefox, IE 6, IE 7/8). For example I personally know some of the people that created heavily Flash-based Web sites. The route map for the new United (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/route-map) and community map (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/community-map) were created in a couple of days after the initial concept design. It's not even possible to do what they did in HTML5, let alone "in a couple of days".
What I like about the iPhone UI is that it tends to make the app or web site developer focus on the essentials and eliminate the cruft.
The 2 URLS you posted, IMO, illustrate much of what is bad about Flash sites:
--there is a lot of unnecessary eye candy
--you can't get in, get what you want, and get out
--they are more about form than function
For example, the 1st link:
1) you need to scroll down and accept a disclaimer before you can do anything
2) you select a country state and city (standard HTML), then Flash is used to animate (zoom in) and focus the user's attention, on a totally unreadable route map that dominates the top half of the page, while the desired info is down below.
The 2nd Link:
1) Has a USA map that when you mouse-over a state shows a pop-up... while good in theory, it suffers in execution: as you slide the mouse to the desired state, multiple, irritating and distracting, pop-ups appear along the way (often obscuring the state you are trying to mouse to}
2) Then, when you click on a state, a totally superfluous outline of the state zooms into view (an unnecessary animation) that shows useless additional location pins with no indication of what they point to (unless you mouse-over), while the desired info is displayed in text to the right.
For a real exercise in futility, try to find and click on Rhode Island... then explain why it was worth doing!
Both could be better (and, more easily) done, IMO:
1) eliminate the animation
2) eliminate the mouse-over
3) when you click on a state provide all the info, including that from the mouse-over, (if necessary) in the sidebar or a popup.
4) eliminate use of Flash
Then, people in a hurry, could quickly access the info from a mobile device... say, people like those who are trying to schedule an airlines flight... rather than be forced to play some frustrating hide-and-seek animation game (and not a very good one, at that)!
What I learned from that site:
Find a different airline who is interested in what's important to me, a traveler
Or
Use an app on the iPhone or iPad that gives me the info without all the gratuitous crap!
Funny, but I think you've just proved the point that Flash isn't ready for prime time.
If it's big news that someone has managed to create a DEMO of a VAPORWARE product, then the product is obviously not a mainstream product that people are able to use today - as all the Apple bashers have been crowing.
At best, it means that SOME DAY, Adobe may actually have a version of Flash that runs on a tiny number of very high end phones. Meaningless in terms of the discussion of whether Flash should be running on the iPhone today - it's just not an option, no matter how much Apple supported it.
I also got more of a full storey from people who actually attended the event where the flash player crashed, saying the demo was completely unplanned, and the person was candid about the fact that the player wasn't even the latest version, but an older version. Attendees apparently tried other flash sites on it, and it worked fine. You can find these pieces of information from a number of the people who attended on twitter. Though someone will call everyone a LIAR! But I think he's busy in another thread calling a couple other guys liars.
But this headline sure got the flash haters just a'hootin now didn't it.
Now back to be called an apple basher, and hearing endless streams of nonsense about vapourware. Whatever, are they gonna do once this player gets released, real soon
Is it possible to be both pro apple, -and- pro flash?
Naw I suppose you gotta FIGHT THE POWAH! Somewhere...
I have to agree that as much as I love flash, Gianduia looks like it will be a cool piece of software as well. After all competition makes for a healthy market and keeps pushing the technology.
I'm not an Apple fan, but not a hater either. I am a fan of flash but they have been serious deadbeats lately.
truthfully I'm rather surprised apple didn't suddenly stun everyone with a better version of flash something or other. Adoibe could indeed be in trouble.
Though apple probably smartly realizes though, it takes a serious amount of work to get yourself up to the 90+% level though. Small detail.
Hey guys, cut the crap about the name: it's a kind of Italian chocolate from my native city, Torino, it's delicious (tastes like the solid version of Nutella) and there's nothing wrong in being a little cosmopolitan for a change.
By the way: many Apple names are based on northern italian food specialties, Cappuccino comes to mind.
Comments
ok, Wow. I think you took that a little too personally. It did sound, like you were trying to sell me on it. So, hence, a bit like a commercial. I'm sorry if that offended you. I merely said you are preaching, to the converted. You don't need, to sell me on the iphone platform! I'm already sold! (I bought 2 iphones!)
I hope this clarifies things for you.
Whether you realize it or not, your response is flippant, patronizing and condescending... Normally, I'd just let it pass, but this typifies, my frustration with your, otherwise, valid points.
.
Anyway, this apparently "anti-apple" guy is currently trying to decide which ipad model to pre order. Cheers!
If we are talking about truth, then it needs to be pointed out that you are spinning it fairly hard here.
Yes, it's technically true that Adobe is part of the team working very hard on HTML5, but you fail to mention that they are at the same time, working to push the HTML5 group away from using or developing the "Canvas" element which is the part of HTML5 that would basically replace Flash animations on the web.
The Canvas element is nowhere near like Flash, and anybody that has done Flash work would know that. Flash is a timeline-based development tool, not a 2D drawing tool with JS hooks like canvas. Just to create a square in a <canvas> tag that can move across the screen takes a fair amount of JavaScript code, whereas in Flash you can create it with a timeline editor. You could theoretically make an application that spit out JS code and a canvas object, but such a tool is very difficult to create because of inherent limitations in the canvas tag and the JS code; most importantly is that the canvas tag is a rendering canvas, and therefore manipulation of the bitmaps therein is very difficult. CAKE and other tools attempt to rectify this, but they are buggy, especially on Firefox, and suffer from performance problems when dealing with a number of elements.
Fact of the matter is, Flash is still the only way to create animations quickly & easily, especially ones that have to work on 4 different browser platforms (Safari, Firefox, IE 6, IE 7/8). For example I personally know some of the people that created heavily Flash-based Web sites. The route map for the new United (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/route-map) and community map (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/community-map) were created in a couple of days after the initial concept design. It's not even possible to do what they did in HTML5, let alone "in a couple of days".
The Canvas element is nowhere near like Flash, and anybody that has done Flash work would know that. Flash is a timeline-based development tool, not a 2D drawing tool with JS hooks like canvas. Just to create a square in a <canvas> tag that can move across the screen takes a fair amount of JavaScript code, whereas in Flash you can create it with a timeline editor. You could theoretically make an application that spit out JS code and a canvas object, but such a tool is very difficult to create because of inherent limitations in the canvas tag and the JS code; most importantly is that the canvas tag is a rendering canvas, and therefore manipulation of the bitmaps therein is very difficult. CAKE and other tools attempt to rectify this, but they are buggy, especially on Firefox, and suffer from performance problems when dealing with a number of elements.
Fact of the matter is, Flash is still the only way to create animations quickly & easily, especially ones that have to work on 4 different browser platforms (Safari, Firefox, IE 6, IE 7/8). For example I personally know some of the people that created heavily Flash-based Web sites. The route map for the new United (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/route-map) and community map (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/community-map) were created in a couple of days after the initial concept design. It's not even possible to do what they did in HTML5, let alone "in a couple of days".
What?
I didn't find anything compelling about those animations!
It's been 10 years since I did any serious web development, but back then we used image maps (the standard HTML map and area tags along with a little JavaScript,
The map tag has been around since 1996 according to the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML
HTML version timeline
November 24, 1995
HTML 2.0 was published as IETF RFC 1866. Supplemental RFCs added capabilities:
November 25, 1995: RFC 1867 (form-based file upload)
May 1996: RFC 1942 (tables)
August 1996: RFC 1980 (client-side image maps)
January 1997: RFC 2070 (internationalization)
In June 2000, all of these were declared obsolete/historic by RFC 2854.
Here is a simple example analogous to your 2nd link:
http://www.beauscott.com/examples/he...c/imagemap.htm
There are free tools available (online or download) to help you create interactive image maps.
What you say took a couple of days with Flash could easily be done in HTML2, in the same time or less... and it would run on any standards-compliant browser without plugins
???
A couple of DAYS????
Though if that was all the requirement, I wouldn't even suggest flash.
Fact of the matter is, Flash is still the only way to create animations quickly & easily, especially ones that have to work on 4 different browser platforms (Safari, Firefox, IE 6, IE 7/8). For example I personally know some of the people that created heavily Flash-based Web sites. The route map for the new United (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/route-map) and community map (http://www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com/community-map) were created in a couple of days after the initial concept design. It's not even possible to do what they did in HTML5, let alone "in a couple of days".
What I like about the iPhone UI is that it tends to make the app or web site developer focus on the essentials and eliminate the cruft.
The 2 URLS you posted, IMO, illustrate much of what is bad about Flash sites:
--there is a lot of unnecessary eye candy
--you can't get in, get what you want, and get out
--they are more about form than function
For example, the 1st link:
1) you need to scroll down and accept a disclaimer before you can do anything
2) you select a country state and city (standard HTML), then Flash is used to animate (zoom in) and focus the user's attention, on a totally unreadable route map that dominates the top half of the page, while the desired info is down below.
The 2nd Link:
1) Has a USA map that when you mouse-over a state shows a pop-up... while good in theory, it suffers in execution: as you slide the mouse to the desired state, multiple, irritating and distracting, pop-ups appear along the way (often obscuring the state you are trying to mouse to}
2) Then, when you click on a state, a totally superfluous outline of the state zooms into view (an unnecessary animation) that shows useless additional location pins with no indication of what they point to (unless you mouse-over), while the desired info is displayed in text to the right.
For a real exercise in futility, try to find and click on Rhode Island... then explain why it was worth doing!
Both could be better (and, more easily) done, IMO:
1) eliminate the animation
2) eliminate the mouse-over
3) when you click on a state provide all the info, including that from the mouse-over, (if necessary) in the sidebar or a popup.
4) eliminate use of Flash
Then, people in a hurry, could quickly access the info from a mobile device... say, people like those who are trying to schedule an airlines flight... rather than be forced to play some frustrating hide-and-seek animation game (and not a very good one, at that)!
What I learned from that site:
Find a different airline who is interested in what's important to me, a traveler
Or
Use an app on the iPhone or iPad that gives me the info without all the gratuitous crap!
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k
/thread
Flash running "smooth as butter" on a Nexus One (with Android 2.2):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k
/thread
Funny, but I think you've just proved the point that Flash isn't ready for prime time.
If it's big news that someone has managed to create a DEMO of a VAPORWARE product, then the product is obviously not a mainstream product that people are able to use today - as all the Apple bashers have been crowing.
At best, it means that SOME DAY, Adobe may actually have a version of Flash that runs on a tiny number of very high end phones. Meaningless in terms of the discussion of whether Flash should be running on the iPhone today - it's just not an option, no matter how much Apple supported it.
Flash running "smooth as butter" on a Nexus One (with Android 2.2):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k
/thread
I also got more of a full storey from people who actually attended the event where the flash player crashed, saying the demo was completely unplanned, and the person was candid about the fact that the player wasn't even the latest version, but an older version. Attendees apparently tried other flash sites on it, and it worked fine. You can find these pieces of information from a number of the people who attended on twitter. Though someone will call everyone a LIAR! But I think he's busy in another thread calling a couple other guys liars.
But this headline sure got the flash haters just a'hootin now didn't it.
Now back to be called an apple basher, and hearing endless streams of nonsense about vapourware. Whatever, are they gonna do once this player gets released, real soon
Is it possible to be both pro apple, -and- pro flash?
Naw I suppose you gotta FIGHT THE POWAH! Somewhere...
I'm not an Apple fan, but not a hater either. I am a fan of flash but they have been serious deadbeats lately.
A game changer might be the javascript program they are working on that the groovypost guys talked a little bit about, but I don't know how long it will be before they get that out.
If apple can build an independent flash machine of its own, well yeah I think Adobe might be in trouble.
Though apple probably smartly realizes though, it takes a serious amount of work to get yourself up to the 90+% level though. Small detail.
By the way: many Apple names are based on northern italian food specialties, Cappuccino comes to mind.
Got it?