yes, but it would drop by about 90% if you would turn off your computer and stop posting here.
That is only a 'fact' for Adobe shills.
In the real world, Flash sucks on Mac OS X and Linux. It runs adequately (some of the time) on Windows. It doesn't run at all on the rest of the platforms out there.
Right. You just said yourself. Everything but mac. SInce when did linux really matter. Get real.
What part of Beta don't you understand?
I have said beta all along genius. Read the posts, and please try to act like you somewhat understand. This is getting annoying.
Not to mention that it's only in Beta for Android and only for systems with > 800 MHz A8. No Symbian. No WebOS. No Windows Mobile. No iPhoneOS. That's only a tiny, tiny fraction of mobile devices - even if they DO manage to get it working well.
I have posted links to announcements that the other OSs are being worked on. I have been clear that things are in beta, and that it is a work in progress. I have also been clear on, the fact that a 10 year old can find info on how well 10.1 in private beta on mobile currently, is running extremely well. I'm not quite sure why you can't quite understand this, as you keep repeating things already said. If you can't have a meaningful conversation on the subject, give up, and just read k?
But most reports are that it's choppy and slow even on Android.
What reports. Because there are thousands of developers who have seen it first hand recently, who will call you, a liar. Myself, included. I'll expect an outdated googled in link in 3...2...1..
yes, but it would drop by about 90% if you would turn off your computer and stop posting here.
That is only a 'fact' for Adobe shills.
In the real world, Flash sucks on Mac OS X and Linux. It runs adequately (some of the time) on Windows. It doesn't run at all on the rest of the platforms out there.
What part of Beta don't you understand?
Not to mention that it's only in Beta for Android and only for systems with > 800 MHz A8. No Symbian. No WebOS. No Windows Mobile. No iPhoneOS. That's only a tiny, tiny fraction of mobile devices - even if they DO manage to get it working well.
But most reports are that it's choppy and slow even on Android.
Ok this is getting stupid. You're telling ME it's beta? My god man, I've been saying it all along. Are you now going in circles? Obviously, you can't have a proper discussion on this subject, because clearly you don't know the basics of this issue. You simply hate flash, you're not sure why, and you read a couple blogs. End of story.
And all you got is calling me an adobe shill. I've been clear all along, my intentions, and my thoughts on the matter. It isn't being a shill genius, it's hoping a company delivers on a platform I happened to like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
And that is all without the Android version in play. There are rumours it will require v2.2 while other rumours say it will come with v2.2 but will be installable as a package on earlier versions of Android, but since this is still a Beta and Adobe is still struggling to figure out how to make it viable it's all really up in the air. In any regard, we still have BRAND NEW Android phones being sold with v1.x that will likely not v2.x. It's like saying Flash is coming to iPhone OS, but only to the iPad and only the 3G version; it's just a shitty design all around.
And while I think Adobe will get Flash 10.1 to stream 360p and 480p video with stuttering (because they have to or it will be a complete fail), 720p or greater is unlikely and that still doesn't address the battery usage issue. According to Groovetube and WilliamG Flash doesn't affect the battery anymore than HTML5 video. I can't wait for Flash 10.1 to finally land and these kids have to scramble to redefine their arguments once again.
You called me a liar solipsism. I would like to know where. I see you haven't stepped up.
btw I saw first hand 10.1 stream 720p on an android phone, no stutter. I also saw it beat HTML5 canvas in performance, hands down. We all did. There were 1200 people in the audience at the conference. The same keynote is delivered at conferences around the world currently. Perhaps speak to someone in the industry, who knows something of the subject, and save the googled crap.
This boondoggle keeps getting better! As of May 08, 2010 Adobe still can't get a controlled demo to work right on the fastest Android phone with years of development time behind them.
Then, he pulled up the same thing on his Nexus One. The site’s progress bar filled in and the 3D world appeared for a few seconds before the browser crashed. Ryan said (paraphrasing), “Whoops! Well, it’s beta, and this is an intense example — let’s try it again.” He tried it again and got the same result. So he said to the audience, “Well, this one isn’t going to work, but does anyone have a Flash site they’d like to see running?” Someone shouted out “Hulu.” Ryan said, “Hulu doesn’t work,” and then wrapped up his demo, telling people if they wanted to try more sites they could find him later and he’d let them play with his Nexus One.
Adobe, you are in a hole. It is already very deep. Time to stop digging.
Usually I'd say a Beta is proof that it is no longer vapourware, but Adobe's track record is so poor that this is vapourware until there are independent tests showing full and stable Flash support, and a release date.
Ok this is getting stupid. You're telling ME it's beta? My god man, I've been saying it all along.
Not even close to what you've been saying. You've been saying that Flash IS available on mobile platforms.
Ask your third grade teacher what 'is' is. 'Is' is present tense. You've been saying that it works today - when it doesn't. All we have is a very limited beat that might be released this summer and which will work on a tiny fraction of existing phones. That hardly supports your contention that it works today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I'm not sure which one you've seen, but this might be number two.
This blog attempts to make excuses as to why the battery life dropped by 25% in the 3 minute video. What's so great about this blog are the excuses as to why they didn't go full screen with the video (they wanted to show the battery stats on screen in realtime, not at the end of the test), why the video looks choppy (it's the compression, not their fault), and that 3 hours of Flash video with a low-bitrate in 1/4 of the display using HW acceleration is fantastic. They also oddly use 199Mbits to state the video size, not MBytes, which would only less than 24.8MB for a 17 minute video. That's under 200Kbps. For video!
I'd say this shows Adobe has come a long way with Flash ? and that's great, in and of itself? but they are so far behind being able to compete with with real world option that they are just kidding themselves by trying. What they should be doing is demonstrating that it's a good option to have for the occasional sites you go to that require Flash and what they've done to make mouse and keyboard inputs work just fine with stubby fingers.
That is a key point. All these qualifiers and excuses for Flash. I can't be walking my mom through all these issues saying that she needs to see if the source file in H.264 for HW acceleration, what the baseline it is, what the bit rate is, etc. It's silly on every level. I know what iPhone OS will do and independent testing shows that Apple's numbers are honest and straightforward.
My favorite is the Tablet video they showed running Flash - until it crashed. It's really funny that they couldn't get it working long enough to even do a demo.
I wonder how much it pays to be an Adobe shill. Surely they must be getting something for all the nonsense they're spreading.
Not even close to what you've been saying. You've been saying that Flash IS available on mobile platforms.
Ask your third grade teacher what 'is' is. 'Is' is present tense. You've been saying that it works today - when it doesn't. All we have is a very limited beat that might be released this summer and which will work on a tiny fraction of existing phones. That hardly supports your contention that it works today.
My favorite is the Tablet video they showed running Flash - until it crashed. It's really funny that they couldn't get it working long enough to even do a demo.
I wonder how much it pays to be an Adobe shill. Surely they must be getting something for all the nonsense they're spreading.
Show me where. I have discussed where it will -be-. I've told you very recently many of us saw it work. in beta.
Let's have it. Still waiting for the other genius to show me where I lied. I suppose I found a couple trolls eh?
btw brilliant on finding videos. So should I now post all the youtubes of html5 running like total crap on the ipad, including apple's own site? Oh sur you HAVE seen those right? Right???
Not even close to what you've been saying. You've been saying that Flash IS available on mobile platforms.
Ask your third grade teacher what 'is' is. 'Is' is present tense. You've been saying that it works today - when it doesn't. All we have is a very limited beat that might be released this summer and which will work on a tiny fraction of existing phones. That hardly supports your contention that it works today.
He could have stated that it's come a long away and that it'll be good to have for a backup for the few stragglers that won't switch to the more efficient HTML5 video option, but he decided to paint such a false picture and spread so many lies while insulting anyone who didn't agree with him that I had to put him on my ignore list.
I bet he thinks the HP Slate is an iPad killer because he saw in on stage during CES... oh wait.
Quote:
My favorite is the Tablet video they showed running Flash - until it crashed. It's really funny that they couldn't get it working long enough to even do a demo.
I wonder how much it pays to be an Adobe shill. Surely they must be getting something for all the nonsense they're spreading.
Check out the JooJoo. It can apparently do 1080p video, unless that video is Flash then even 720p is a slideshow when windowed (not even fullscreen). That is with a 1.6GHz Atom with Nvidia Ion (9400M IGP) and the Flash 10.1 Beta!!! I won't even get into battery life. So much for that iPad killer.
He could have stated that it's come a long away and that it'll be good to have for a backup for the few stragglers that won't switch to the more efficient HTML5 video option, but he decided to paint such a false picture and spread so many lies while insulting anyone who didn't agree with him that I had to put him on my ignore list.
I bet he thinks the HP Slate is an iPad killer because he saw in on stage during CES... oh wait.
Check out the JooJoo. It can apparently do 1080p video, unless that video is Flash then even 720p is a slideshow when windowed (not even fullscreen. That is with a 1.6GHz Atom with Nvidia Ion (9400M IGP) and the Flash 10.1 Beta. I won't even get into battery life. So much for that iPad killer.
Let's go pal. You don't go calling people a liar, and not be able to show where.
So let's have it...
oh btw you do know the example you posted is using 10.1 beta 1 meant for desktop use right? Yeah I'm sure you sweat the details when you're busy googling for example to explain why you hate flash. Speaking of shilling...
... I have maintained from the start. Adobe is lazy. Flash sucks for mobile in it's current form. There is a lot we developers dislike about adobe. But a massive number of interactive shops use flash (obviously...) and love the platform for development. Anyone who works on it hopes, that Adobe will get their act together, and put out a killer player for mobile. We had out doubts based on past offerings like flash lite, 10.1 had promise, but after the latest flurry of demonstrations many thousands of us have seen with our own two eyes, it's no longer vapourware as the ones who haven't seen squat mouth off about, it's very close to actual release, and we will begin to start seeing a rollout on each platform. We know it'll be on android, blacklberry, win7, and symbian. (not sure about webOS but suspect so).
I don't know how successful it will be, but odds are, it will be. ...
Well, you are right that Adobe is lazy and that Flash sucks: it is in fact a stinking pile of ancient, creaky, buggy, and now irrelevant code. If Adobe weren't so lazy, it might not suck so much now, but it does, and the odds are, based on the realities of complex software projects, that they can't rewrite it in time to save it. In fact, odds are that it's already too late. Odds are also that there will not be even moderate quality versions of it running in 2010 on all, and maybe even not on a single one, of the mobile platforms you mention.
As for that, "massive number of interactive shops [using] flash (sic)," they are, like rats deserting a sinking ship, abandoning it in accelerating numbers (Scribd is a recent high profile defection), and the empirical evidence supports the notion that Adobe ran out of time about a year ago, that Flash's destiny is already decided and that its destiny is to become a largely irrelevant plugin very quickly.
Content providers don't really care about Flash vs. HTML5, at least the company executives don't in large part. What they do care is being able to reach desirable demographics, and Flash can no longer do that. So, if you're a designer with a religious devotion to Flash, you'll soon be facing the day when you have to explain to your boss why your websites aren't reaching the audience he wants, and he's not really going to care that Flash was all that 5 years ago. So, if you are that designer, my advice is to learn as much about HTML5 as you can as fast as you can, otherwise, some young kid is going to be eating your lunch this time next year.
You can rant about it and call people names here as much as you like, but that doesn't change the fact that Flash is a dead man walking.
...And, as you mentioned, we all know it'll on android. And you said 'it doesn't appear to working well'. Really. Have you seen it? I have, in person, and you're full of it. It is indeed working very well....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
...What reports. Because there are thousands of developers who have seen it first hand recently, who will call you, a liar. Myself, included. I'll expect an outdated googled in link in 3...2...1..
The emphasis in your statements, above, is mine.
1) Why don't you post a few links showing Flash 10.1 working "very well" on any mobile device.
2) Why don't cite (links) to 10 of the "thousands of developers" who have seen it first hand, and will call him a "liar." Obviously, these should not be Adobe employees or independent developers, under contract to Adobe or consulting/evangelizing for Adobe.
If what you claim is true, it should be a simple matter to prove your points and quiet the nay-sayers.
I'd like to see Apple make a Dreamweaver like HTML5 development program. It would make a nice addition to their pro apps suite.
You know what, I think this is going to be iWeb. We still haven't seen any updates to the iLife suite so it seems plausible that Apple is working on something with this although a pro version with code editing would be invaluable and I would definitely buy it in a heartbeat.
At the moment though I'm working between Flux and Coda as a workaround.
1) Why don't you post a few links showing Flash 10.1 working "very well" on any mobile device.
2) Why don't cite (links) to 10 of the "thousands of developers" who have seen it first hand, and will call him a "liar." Obviously, these should not be Adobe employees or independent developers, under contract to Adobe or consulting/evangelizing for Adobe.
If what you claim is true, it should be a simple matter to prove your points and quiet the nay-sayers.
.
I witnessed it with 1200 other developers at the design and technology festival in Toronto a few weeks ago, 1200 in attendance at the keynote, they ran 10.1 latest release on an android phone. I didn't get this from a link, a blog, nor did I google it like this guy. If one is interested in more than finding examples in google of flash player performing badly, you can find it. I didn't take video, nor did I take down names of the participants sitting beside me. However, this is well known. The only video I know of that shows of flash on android, is 2 months old. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbmnvikY0rg What I saw, was the more recent update. I could try to see if anyone took video at the event. But really, I doubt that's going to stop this pair from calling me a liar or an adobe shill. They're more interested in flash hating at all costs...
But I'm not the one throwing around the name liar here. I'd like to see where it is I 'lied'. I've been honest about what I know, seen, and my opinion. I don't need some poster calling me a liar.
oh my, another playing the look I found an example of something running badly. Holy mother of god you found something running badly at a public event?
We can spend pages, and pages, of posting links to every technology in existence. I can post youtubes of ipads choking on html5. Does this prove something too?
No, it doesn't. Again, I have been honest about my thoughts on adobe, and where they've fallen down. I've seen things first hand, and have enough experience to predict what -might- happen.
Throwing links around with little background or context, little information other than "LOOK! I"M RIGHT" accomplishes little other than looking smart on a forum I'm afraid.
He could have stated that it's come a long away and that it'll be good to have for a backup for the few stragglers that won't switch to the more efficient HTML5 video option, but he decided to paint such a false picture and spread so many lies while insulting anyone who didn't agree with him that I had to put him on my ignore list.
I bet he thinks the HP Slate is an iPad killer because he saw in on stage during CES... oh wait.
"Here?s what happened: On his Mac, Ryan pulled up a site called Eco Zoo. It is, seemingly, a pretty intense example of Flash development ? full of 3D rendering, rich interactions, and cute little characters. Then, he pulled up the same thing on his Nexus One. The site?s progress bar filled in and the 3D world appeared for a few seconds before the browser crashed. Ryan said (paraphrasing), ?Whoops! Well, it?s beta, and this is an intense example ? let?s try it again.? He tried it again and got the same result. So he said to the audience, ?Well, this one isn?t going to work, but does anyone have a Flash site they?d like to see running?? Someone shouted out ?Hulu.? Ryan said, ?Hulu doesn?t work,? and then wrapped up his demo, telling people if they wanted to try more sites they could find him later and he?d let them play with his Nexus One."
The thing I have a hard time understanding is how so many people can be gullible enough for Adobe to get any sympathy at all.
"Here’s what happened: On his Mac, Ryan pulled up a site called Eco Zoo. It is, seemingly, a pretty intense example of Flash development — full of 3D rendering, rich interactions, and cute little characters. Then, he pulled up the same thing on his Nexus One. The site’s progress bar filled in and the 3D world appeared for a few seconds before the browser crashed. Ryan said (paraphrasing), “Whoops! Well, it’s beta, and this is an intense example — let’s try it again.” He tried it again and got the same result. So he said to the audience, “Well, this one isn’t going to work, but does anyone have a Flash site they’d like to see running?” Someone shouted out “Hulu.” Ryan said, “Hulu doesn’t work,” and then wrapped up his demo, telling people if they wanted to try more sites they could find him later and he’d let them play with his Nexus One."
The thing I have a hard time understanding is how so many people can be gullible enough for Adobe to get any sympathy at all.
So here we have it. A pair of trolls, who have't the ability to carry a conversation. This one, twisted every post I made, because he can't see past the flash hating, his buddy, calls me a liar, but has cut and run because he won't answer to where it is I apparently "lied".
So now they high five each other, posting links of flash crashing or running badly. This isn't discussion, this is a bunch of 2 year olds who can't talk.
Should there be a circle jerk on posting bad performance of html5 on the ipad? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4 Does this prove anything? Are we gonna have a flurry of googled links screaming "I'M RIGHT" now?
Waste of time. I suspect there's a couple here capable of balanced discussion, but these two aren't it.
March 6, 2008 » Apple demos and aunches public SDK for iPhone v2.0.
March 18, 2008 » Adobe CEO, Shantanu Narayen states, "We believe Flash is synonymous with the Internet experience, and we are committed to bringing Flash to the iPhone," adding, "We have evaluated (the software developer tools) and we think we can develop an iPhone Flash player ourselves."
Remember, the iPhone was ARM11 @ 412MHz clockspeed, not the Cortex-A8 @ 800MHz that is now the bare minimum requirement.
Okay, so there is some slippery wording in there and he stated the next day that isn't what he meant, that he meant for other phones that weren't as walled up as the iPhone. Fine, I'll give him that, but that was over 2 years ago and it still doesn't exist for the open Android platform with the Nexus One running a Cortex A8 @ 1Ghz w/512MB RAM. Isn't this the same Android platform that was known to the world before the iPhone was even debuted? What about WinMO and WebOS and Symbian? Didn't those also predate the iPhone and aren't they allowing Flash to be installed?
So how are we in May 2010 and it still doesn't exist in a public Beta and all controlled demos are being ripped to shreds by either not working at all or using very low bitrates in small windows without any giving any useful specs. It's all been smoke and mirrors so far but with their head up their collective ass they can't see how pathetic they look or choke on their own vapours.
Last week Kevin Lynch, Adobe's CTO, apparently stated that Flash works fine on the iPhone. If that were true it would work great on every other platform, especially the more open ones with the faster HW. Enough shenanigans!
The thing I have a hard time understanding is how so many people can be gullible enough for Adobe to get any sympathy at all.
I have no idea what this love for road kill is all about. Adobe has great products. Flash is still viable on a desktop. They have done a lot more in the past 6 months to bring Flash to Android than they have probably done to develop Flash in general in the past several years. But it's not nearly enough effort and it far too late to start thinking about innovation after sitting on their asses for so long letting it fester.
Comments
I suggest they change the name to Giada. Hubba hubba! Who's with me?
yes, but it would drop by about 90% if you would turn off your computer and stop posting here.
That is only a 'fact' for Adobe shills.
In the real world, Flash sucks on Mac OS X and Linux. It runs adequately (some of the time) on Windows. It doesn't run at all on the rest of the platforms out there.
Right. You just said yourself. Everything but mac. SInce when did linux really matter. Get real.
What part of Beta don't you understand?
I have said beta all along genius. Read the posts, and please try to act like you somewhat understand. This is getting annoying.
Not to mention that it's only in Beta for Android and only for systems with > 800 MHz A8. No Symbian. No WebOS. No Windows Mobile. No iPhoneOS. That's only a tiny, tiny fraction of mobile devices - even if they DO manage to get it working well.
I have posted links to announcements that the other OSs are being worked on. I have been clear that things are in beta, and that it is a work in progress. I have also been clear on, the fact that a 10 year old can find info on how well 10.1 in private beta on mobile currently, is running extremely well. I'm not quite sure why you can't quite understand this, as you keep repeating things already said. If you can't have a meaningful conversation on the subject, give up, and just read k?
But most reports are that it's choppy and slow even on Android.
What reports. Because there are thousands of developers who have seen it first hand recently, who will call you, a liar. Myself, included. I'll expect an outdated googled in link in 3...2...1..
yes, but it would drop by about 90% if you would turn off your computer and stop posting here.
That is only a 'fact' for Adobe shills.
In the real world, Flash sucks on Mac OS X and Linux. It runs adequately (some of the time) on Windows. It doesn't run at all on the rest of the platforms out there.
What part of Beta don't you understand?
Not to mention that it's only in Beta for Android and only for systems with > 800 MHz A8. No Symbian. No WebOS. No Windows Mobile. No iPhoneOS. That's only a tiny, tiny fraction of mobile devices - even if they DO manage to get it working well.
But most reports are that it's choppy and slow even on Android.
Ok this is getting stupid. You're telling ME it's beta? My god man, I've been saying it all along. Are you now going in circles? Obviously, you can't have a proper discussion on this subject, because clearly you don't know the basics of this issue. You simply hate flash, you're not sure why, and you read a couple blogs. End of story.
And all you got is calling me an adobe shill. I've been clear all along, my intentions, and my thoughts on the matter. It isn't being a shill genius, it's hoping a company delivers on a platform I happened to like.
And that is all without the Android version in play. There are rumours it will require v2.2 while other rumours say it will come with v2.2 but will be installable as a package on earlier versions of Android, but since this is still a Beta and Adobe is still struggling to figure out how to make it viable it's all really up in the air. In any regard, we still have BRAND NEW Android phones being sold with v1.x that will likely not v2.x. It's like saying Flash is coming to iPhone OS, but only to the iPad and only the 3G version; it's just a shitty design all around.
And while I think Adobe will get Flash 10.1 to stream 360p and 480p video with stuttering (because they have to or it will be a complete fail), 720p or greater is unlikely and that still doesn't address the battery usage issue. According to Groovetube and WilliamG Flash doesn't affect the battery anymore than HTML5 video. I can't wait for Flash 10.1 to finally land and these kids have to scramble to redefine their arguments once again.
You called me a liar solipsism. I would like to know where. I see you haven't stepped up.
btw I saw first hand 10.1 stream 720p on an android phone, no stutter. I also saw it beat HTML5 canvas in performance, hands down. We all did. There were 1200 people in the audience at the conference. The same keynote is delivered at conferences around the world currently. Perhaps speak to someone in the industry, who knows something of the subject, and save the googled crap.
Jeff Croft on Adobe’s Android Flash Demo at FlashCamp Seattle ★
Then, he pulled up the same thing on his Nexus One. The site’s progress bar filled in and the 3D world appeared for a few seconds before the browser crashed. Ryan said (paraphrasing), “Whoops! Well, it’s beta, and this is an intense example — let’s try it again.” He tried it again and got the same result. So he said to the audience, “Well, this one isn’t going to work, but does anyone have a Flash site they’d like to see running?” Someone shouted out “Hulu.” Ryan said, “Hulu doesn’t work,” and then wrapped up his demo, telling people if they wanted to try more sites they could find him later and he’d let them play with his Nexus One.
Adobe, you are in a hole. It is already very deep. Time to stop digging.
Usually I'd say a Beta is proof that it is no longer vapourware, but Adobe's track record is so poor that this is vapourware until there are independent tests showing full and stable Flash support, and a release date.
Ok this is getting stupid. You're telling ME it's beta? My god man, I've been saying it all along.
Not even close to what you've been saying. You've been saying that Flash IS available on mobile platforms.
Ask your third grade teacher what 'is' is.
I'm not sure which one you've seen, but this might be number two.This blog attempts to make excuses as to why the battery life dropped by 25% in the 3 minute video. What's so great about this blog are the excuses as to why they didn't go full screen with the video (they wanted to show the battery stats on screen in realtime, not at the end of the test), why the video looks choppy (it's the compression, not their fault), and that 3 hours of Flash video with a low-bitrate in 1/4 of the display using HW acceleration is fantastic. They also oddly use 199Mbits to state the video size, not MBytes, which would only less than 24.8MB for a 17 minute video. That's under 200Kbps. For video!
I'd say this shows Adobe has come a long way with Flash ? and that's great, in and of itself? but they are so far behind being able to compete with with real world option that they are just kidding themselves by trying. What they should be doing is demonstrating that it's a good option to have for the occasional sites you go to that require Flash and what they've done to make mouse and keyboard inputs work just fine with stubby fingers.
That is a key point. All these qualifiers and excuses for Flash. I can't be walking my mom through all these issues saying that she needs to see if the source file in H.264 for HW acceleration, what the baseline it is, what the bit rate is, etc. It's silly on every level. I know what iPhone OS will do and independent testing shows that Apple's numbers are honest and straightforward.
My favorite is the Tablet video they showed running Flash - until it crashed. It's really funny that they couldn't get it working long enough to even do a demo.
I wonder how much it pays to be an Adobe shill. Surely they must be getting something for all the nonsense they're spreading.
Not even close to what you've been saying. You've been saying that Flash IS available on mobile platforms.
Ask your third grade teacher what 'is' is.
My favorite is the Tablet video they showed running Flash - until it crashed. It's really funny that they couldn't get it working long enough to even do a demo.
I wonder how much it pays to be an Adobe shill. Surely they must be getting something for all the nonsense they're spreading.
Show me where. I have discussed where it will -be-. I've told you very recently many of us saw it work. in beta.
Let's have it. Still waiting for the other genius to show me where I lied. I suppose I found a couple trolls eh?
btw brilliant on finding videos. So should I now post all the youtubes of html5 running like total crap on the ipad, including apple's own site? Oh sur you HAVE seen those right? Right???
Yay that sounds meaningful.
Not even close to what you've been saying. You've been saying that Flash IS available on mobile platforms.
Ask your third grade teacher what 'is' is.
He could have stated that it's come a long away and that it'll be good to have for a backup for the few stragglers that won't switch to the more efficient HTML5 video option, but he decided to paint such a false picture and spread so many lies while insulting anyone who didn't agree with him that I had to put him on my ignore list.
I bet he thinks the HP Slate is an iPad killer because he saw in on stage during CES... oh wait.
My favorite is the Tablet video they showed running Flash - until it crashed. It's really funny that they couldn't get it working long enough to even do a demo.
I wonder how much it pays to be an Adobe shill. Surely they must be getting something for all the nonsense they're spreading.
Check out the JooJoo. It can apparently do 1080p video, unless that video is Flash then even 720p is a slideshow when windowed (not even fullscreen). That is with a 1.6GHz Atom with Nvidia Ion (9400M IGP) and the Flash 10.1 Beta!!! I won't even get into battery life. So much for that iPad killer.
He could have stated that it's come a long away and that it'll be good to have for a backup for the few stragglers that won't switch to the more efficient HTML5 video option, but he decided to paint such a false picture and spread so many lies while insulting anyone who didn't agree with him that I had to put him on my ignore list.
I bet he thinks the HP Slate is an iPad killer because he saw in on stage during CES... oh wait.
Check out the JooJoo. It can apparently do 1080p video, unless that video is Flash then even 720p is a slideshow when windowed (not even fullscreen. That is with a 1.6GHz Atom with Nvidia Ion (9400M IGP) and the Flash 10.1 Beta. I won't even get into battery life. So much for that iPad killer.
Let's go pal. You don't go calling people a liar, and not be able to show where.
So let's have it...
oh btw you do know the example you posted is using 10.1 beta 1 meant for desktop use right? Yeah I'm sure you sweat the details when you're busy googling for example to explain why you hate flash. Speaking of shilling...
LOL
... I have maintained from the start. Adobe is lazy. Flash sucks for mobile in it's current form. There is a lot we developers dislike about adobe. But a massive number of interactive shops use flash (obviously...) and love the platform for development. Anyone who works on it hopes, that Adobe will get their act together, and put out a killer player for mobile. We had out doubts based on past offerings like flash lite, 10.1 had promise, but after the latest flurry of demonstrations many thousands of us have seen with our own two eyes, it's no longer vapourware as the ones who haven't seen squat mouth off about, it's very close to actual release, and we will begin to start seeing a rollout on each platform. We know it'll be on android, blacklberry, win7, and symbian. (not sure about webOS but suspect so).
I don't know how successful it will be, but odds are, it will be. ...
Well, you are right that Adobe is lazy and that Flash sucks: it is in fact a stinking pile of ancient, creaky, buggy, and now irrelevant code. If Adobe weren't so lazy, it might not suck so much now, but it does, and the odds are, based on the realities of complex software projects, that they can't rewrite it in time to save it. In fact, odds are that it's already too late. Odds are also that there will not be even moderate quality versions of it running in 2010 on all, and maybe even not on a single one, of the mobile platforms you mention.
As for that, "massive number of interactive shops [using] flash (sic)," they are, like rats deserting a sinking ship, abandoning it in accelerating numbers (Scribd is a recent high profile defection), and the empirical evidence supports the notion that Adobe ran out of time about a year ago, that Flash's destiny is already decided and that its destiny is to become a largely irrelevant plugin very quickly.
Content providers don't really care about Flash vs. HTML5, at least the company executives don't in large part. What they do care is being able to reach desirable demographics, and Flash can no longer do that. So, if you're a designer with a religious devotion to Flash, you'll soon be facing the day when you have to explain to your boss why your websites aren't reaching the audience he wants, and he's not really going to care that Flash was all that 5 years ago. So, if you are that designer, my advice is to learn as much about HTML5 as you can as fast as you can, otherwise, some young kid is going to be eating your lunch this time next year.
You can rant about it and call people names here as much as you like, but that doesn't change the fact that Flash is a dead man walking.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE NAME
Freaking language bigots...
yes, there's something very wrong with the name. it looks and sounds like an infection - Giardia.
naming a program you want people to use after a virus, infection, or disease is a bad idea.
hell, even iJava would have been better. [or nestle, or mocha, or quik, or nutella as mentioned before]
would you name your child Sisyphus? how about naming your new software Donorrhea?
...And, as you mentioned, we all know it'll on android. And you said 'it doesn't appear to working well'. Really. Have you seen it? I have, in person, and you're full of it. It is indeed working very well....
...What reports. Because there are thousands of developers who have seen it first hand recently, who will call you, a liar. Myself, included. I'll expect an outdated googled in link in 3...2...1..
The emphasis in your statements, above, is mine.
1) Why don't you post a few links showing Flash 10.1 working "very well" on any mobile device.
2) Why don't cite (links) to 10 of the "thousands of developers" who have seen it first hand, and will call him a "liar." Obviously, these should not be Adobe employees or independent developers, under contract to Adobe or consulting/evangelizing for Adobe.
If what you claim is true, it should be a simple matter to prove your points and quiet the nay-sayers.
.
I'd like to see Apple make a Dreamweaver like HTML5 development program. It would make a nice addition to their pro apps suite.
You know what, I think this is going to be iWeb. We still haven't seen any updates to the iLife suite so it seems plausible that Apple is working on something with this although a pro version with code editing would be invaluable and I would definitely buy it in a heartbeat.
At the moment though I'm working between Flux and Coda as a workaround.
... 1) Why don't you post a few links showing Flash 10.1 working "very well" on any mobile device. ...
http://jeffcroft.com/blog/2010/may/0...hcamp-seattle/
(via Gruber)
Oh, wait, links showing it working... never mind.
The emphasis in your statements, above, is mine.
1) Why don't you post a few links showing Flash 10.1 working "very well" on any mobile device.
2) Why don't cite (links) to 10 of the "thousands of developers" who have seen it first hand, and will call him a "liar." Obviously, these should not be Adobe employees or independent developers, under contract to Adobe or consulting/evangelizing for Adobe.
If what you claim is true, it should be a simple matter to prove your points and quiet the nay-sayers.
.
I witnessed it with 1200 other developers at the design and technology festival in Toronto a few weeks ago, 1200 in attendance at the keynote, they ran 10.1 latest release on an android phone. I didn't get this from a link, a blog, nor did I google it like this guy. If one is interested in more than finding examples in google of flash player performing badly, you can find it. I didn't take video, nor did I take down names of the participants sitting beside me. However, this is well known. The only video I know of that shows of flash on android, is 2 months old. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbmnvikY0rg What I saw, was the more recent update. I could try to see if anyone took video at the event. But really, I doubt that's going to stop this pair from calling me a liar or an adobe shill. They're more interested in flash hating at all costs...
But I'm not the one throwing around the name liar here. I'd like to see where it is I 'lied'. I've been honest about what I know, seen, and my opinion. I don't need some poster calling me a liar.
http://jeffcroft.com/blog/2010/may/0...hcamp-seattle/
(via Gruber)
Oh, wait, links showing it working... never mind.
oh my, another playing the look I found an example of something running badly. Holy mother of god you found something running badly at a public event?
We can spend pages, and pages, of posting links to every technology in existence. I can post youtubes of ipads choking on html5. Does this prove something too?
No, it doesn't. Again, I have been honest about my thoughts on adobe, and where they've fallen down. I've seen things first hand, and have enough experience to predict what -might- happen.
Throwing links around with little background or context, little information other than "LOOK! I"M RIGHT" accomplishes little other than looking smart on a forum I'm afraid.
He could have stated that it's come a long away and that it'll be good to have for a backup for the few stragglers that won't switch to the more efficient HTML5 video option, but he decided to paint such a false picture and spread so many lies while insulting anyone who didn't agree with him that I had to put him on my ignore list.
I bet he thinks the HP Slate is an iPad killer because he saw in on stage during CES... oh wait.
I think you meant the Courier.
Oh, wait.....
http://jeffcroft.com/blog/2010/may/0...hcamp-seattle/
(via Gruber)
Oh, wait, links showing it working... never mind.
Well worth quoting the relevant section:
"Here?s what happened: On his Mac, Ryan pulled up a site called Eco Zoo. It is, seemingly, a pretty intense example of Flash development ? full of 3D rendering, rich interactions, and cute little characters. Then, he pulled up the same thing on his Nexus One. The site?s progress bar filled in and the 3D world appeared for a few seconds before the browser crashed. Ryan said (paraphrasing), ?Whoops! Well, it?s beta, and this is an intense example ? let?s try it again.? He tried it again and got the same result. So he said to the audience, ?Well, this one isn?t going to work, but does anyone have a Flash site they?d like to see running?? Someone shouted out ?Hulu.? Ryan said, ?Hulu doesn?t work,? and then wrapped up his demo, telling people if they wanted to try more sites they could find him later and he?d let them play with his Nexus One."
The thing I have a hard time understanding is how so many people can be gullible enough for Adobe to get any sympathy at all.
I think you meant the Courier.
Oh, wait.....
Well worth quoting the relevant section:
"Here’s what happened: On his Mac, Ryan pulled up a site called Eco Zoo. It is, seemingly, a pretty intense example of Flash development — full of 3D rendering, rich interactions, and cute little characters. Then, he pulled up the same thing on his Nexus One. The site’s progress bar filled in and the 3D world appeared for a few seconds before the browser crashed. Ryan said (paraphrasing), “Whoops! Well, it’s beta, and this is an intense example — let’s try it again.” He tried it again and got the same result. So he said to the audience, “Well, this one isn’t going to work, but does anyone have a Flash site they’d like to see running?” Someone shouted out “Hulu.” Ryan said, “Hulu doesn’t work,” and then wrapped up his demo, telling people if they wanted to try more sites they could find him later and he’d let them play with his Nexus One."
The thing I have a hard time understanding is how so many people can be gullible enough for Adobe to get any sympathy at all.
So here we have it. A pair of trolls, who have't the ability to carry a conversation. This one, twisted every post I made, because he can't see past the flash hating, his buddy, calls me a liar, but has cut and run because he won't answer to where it is I apparently "lied".
So now they high five each other, posting links of flash crashing or running badly. This isn't discussion, this is a bunch of 2 year olds who can't talk.
Should there be a circle jerk on posting bad performance of html5 on the ipad? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4 Does this prove anything? Are we gonna have a flurry of googled links screaming "I'M RIGHT" now?
Waste of time. I suspect there's a couple here capable of balanced discussion, but these two aren't it.
March 18, 2008 » Adobe CEO, Shantanu Narayen states, "We believe Flash is synonymous with the Internet experience, and we are committed to bringing Flash to the iPhone," adding, "We have evaluated (the software developer tools) and we think we can develop an iPhone Flash player ourselves."
Remember, the iPhone was ARM11 @ 412MHz clockspeed, not the Cortex-A8 @ 800MHz that is now the bare minimum requirement.
Okay, so there is some slippery wording in there and he stated the next day that isn't what he meant, that he meant for other phones that weren't as walled up as the iPhone. Fine, I'll give him that, but that was over 2 years ago and it still doesn't exist for the open Android platform with the Nexus One running a Cortex A8 @ 1Ghz w/512MB RAM. Isn't this the same Android platform that was known to the world before the iPhone was even debuted? What about WinMO and WebOS and Symbian? Didn't those also predate the iPhone and aren't they allowing Flash to be installed?
So how are we in May 2010 and it still doesn't exist in a public Beta and all controlled demos are being ripped to shreds by either not working at all or using very low bitrates in small windows without any giving any useful specs. It's all been smoke and mirrors so far but with their head up their collective ass they can't see how pathetic they look or choke on their own vapours.
Last week Kevin Lynch, Adobe's CTO, apparently stated that Flash works fine on the iPhone. If that were true it would work great on every other platform, especially the more open ones with the faster HW. Enough shenanigans!
The thing I have a hard time understanding is how so many people can be gullible enough for Adobe to get any sympathy at all.
I have no idea what this love for road kill is all about. Adobe has great products. Flash is still viable on a desktop. They have done a lot more in the past 6 months to bring Flash to Android than they have probably done to develop Flash in general in the past several years. But it's not nearly enough effort and it far too late to start thinking about innovation after sitting on their asses for so long letting it fester.