Other than the increased memory, what else does the 13" MacBook Pro offer over the new MacBook.
???
• Stronger case with better resale value
• Smaller on all three dimensions and lighter
• IR port
• They used to use a better display tech, starting with the MBA, but it might be cheaper to just buy all the same now. We'd have to check the manu/mod in Sys Prefs » Displays » Color tab » Open Profile » #17.
Wow, you'd still have to pay VAT if you bought something from outside the country? That's a little nuts.
Of course, I live in Delaware, where there is NO sales tax on anything at all So, $999.00 is $999.00 to me.
How would they know you bought a computer on your trip though? Do you have to declare it on your way out of the country?
I take it you've not traveled much out of the country. This is the whole reason you have to go through customs when you travel internationally. Goods over a certain amount (in the US I believe it's still $200 for a single day, or $400 for any travel longer than a day) are required to be claimed upon return to one's home country, and local tax (duty) is then levied on those goods (this is why you can frequently receive a refund of taxes paid in the foreign country upon departure; you avoid paying taxes twice).
Customs can choose to inspect your bags to verify you are not bringing unclaimed items. Many people travel with receipts for any electronics they travel with (imagine bringing your personal laptop or an expensive camera with you when you travel, and customs believing you bought it overseas--you'd end up paying duty on an item you'd already paid local tax on). If they catch you, you'll pay penalties on top of the levy.
Me as well. And I think the low-end 21.5" iMac still has the 9400M that also needs the 320M.
Does anyone know if the updated white MacBook got audio out on the mini-DisplayPort connector like the refreshed MBPs got? (Not that I'm interested in that model of MacBook, I'm just curious when it will show up in the mini...)
I think the days of nVidia integrated video in the iMac are over. Apple will move to Core i3/i5/i7 for the iMac making it necessary to include discrete GPUs in all models.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new iMac. Apple is waiting for Intel to update their product line and thus improve performance per dollar before making any changes to the iMac. The Core i5-750 and Core i7-860 that Apple uses haven't dropped in price even one penny since their introduction in 2009.
Lack of movement by Intel and the generally weak economy is what's behind the long delay in getting a new Mac Pro too. The mini sells well even when it's crippled so Apple has little reason to update its specs any time soon.
Here's my revised predictions for 2010...
June: new iPhone 3Gx with OS 4.0
July: nothing new
August: MacBook Air, Mac Pro
September: new iPods, iPhone OS 4.0 arrives for iPad
I have no idea why anyone uses TDM. It's not even close to being the most efficient method for troubleshooting a modern Mac.
Not for trouble-shooting. For fixing/repairing disk data problems. Often times, it is faster to boot an ailing Mac in the target disc mode, hook it up to a working Mac with all the disk diagnostic tools and trouble-shoot from there, rather than booting from a trouble-shooting bootable CD (sloooooow), or having a separate, dedicated external bootable hard drive with those diagnostic tools.
I use both, although I'll always prefer booting in target mode and working from my other Mac, over booting from a 'TechTool Pro' DVD (or a USB disk/flash equivalent). It is just much faster.
It is however a darned fast way of migration or simply moving large amounts of stuff from Mac to Mac.
That is how I used to do a migration before Time Machine. Now I can do the same thing with more automation, without the need for a FW cable that was designed to go from Mac-to-Mac (not Mac-to-external-HDD), and without having two Macs tied up at the same time in the same place to accomplish this goal.
Quote:
OK I'll bite - what is the "most efficient method for troubleshooting a modern Mac"?
Any HDD, SSD, USB Flash Drive or SD card with Mac OS X or Restore Disc on it. Apple Stores use this via USB or FW to get into any Mac without the need of a 2nd Mac. Just hold down Option key and choose a boot partition.
Not for trouble-shooting. For fixing/repairing disk data problems. Often times, it is faster to boot an ailing Mac in the target disc mode, hook it up to a working Mac with all the disk diagnostic tools and trouble-shoot from there, rather than booting from a trouble-shooting bootable CD (sloooooow), or having a separate, dedicated external bootable hard drive with those diagnostic tools.
I use both, although I'll always prefer booting in target mode and working from my other Mac, over booting from a 'TechTool Pro' DVD (or a USB disk/flash equivalent). It is just much faster.
What is slow about USB or SD? Surely that is faster than a HDD in another Mac. Unless there is some HW issue that allows you to access TDM but disallows you to use that Mac from a different boot partitionI don't see the benefit of having of using two Macs, carrying a FW cable and adapters or additional cables incase you need to go from W400-to-FW400, FW400-to-FW800 or FW800-to-FW800. I've never tried doing it over Ethernet.
I have FW800 on my mini and I've used it all of about twice: once to migrate data and settings over to it from my previous Mac and once or twice to hook up my aging video cam which never gets used anymore it seems.
Probably not in this audience but a lot of Mac users will never hook up anything to their FW port. Your typical MacBook user would definitely fit into the category.
People who don't know about computer specs and are attracted to the soothing white ceramic looks of the case.
Women and children mostly.
Actually, the white MacBook is the best selling Mac, so it's obviously seen as desirable by a lot more than women and children, although price is probably the biggest factor. While you may perceive the 13" MBP as a better value, it still costs more and many who buy this machine are probably converts from $400-$500 Dell machines, so they're already paying a lot more than they have in the past.
And that's aside from the fact that your comment is both sexist and ageist.
People who don't know about computer specs and are attracted to the soothing white ceramic looks of the case.
I find there are a lot of people who think they know about "computer specs" but make choices based on very limited data points. For instance, claiming that the C2D is from 2006 and saying that Core-i3 with Intel HD would have been better simply because it's "newer". Or wanting a higher-rez display without ever mentioning the other numerous and important aspects of the display and its backlight.
I think the $899 MacBook is a great buy, but I think the $1,099 13" MBP is a better choice. In fact, I was so impressed with the additions to the latest 13" MBP update that decided to not go with a 15" MBP this time and choose the 13" again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
Actually, the white MacBook is the best selling Mac, so it's obviously seen as desirable by a lot more than women and children, although price is probably the biggest factor. While you may perceive the 13" MBP as a better value, it still costs more and many who buy this machine are probably converts from $400-$500 Dell machines, so they're already paying a lot more than they have in the past.
And that's aside from the fact that your comment is both sexist and ageist.
Core-i3 with Intel HD would have been better simply because it's "newer". Or wanting a higher-rez display without ever mentioning the other numerous and important aspects of the display and its backlight.
I think the $899 MacBook is a great buy, but I think the $1,099 13" MBP is a better choice.
People react to buzzwords and, not being tech geeks, don't always know all the various bits that make up a better quality item (IPS over TFT for screens for example).
You're missing $100 on both of those options. If you mean from the education store, then it's $949 and $1099. The MBP is only $100 more after you upgrade the Macbook to 4GB of RAM, plus the MBP can get another 4GB on top of that, as well as the other differences.
What is slow about USB or SD? Surely that is faster than a HDD in another Mac.
FireWire is practically ALWAYS faster than USB2 (SD card slot goes via USB bus). Theoretically, USB2 has 480Mbps throughput, and original FW had 400Mbps, but due to significant amount of overhead on USB2, and inconsistent data transfer speeds, FireWire is always faster for moving massive amounts of non-contiguous data (such as thousands of small files) back and forth.
For me, target mode often did the trick faster than booting from USB. My iMac is always at my home desk, and FW cable is in the drawer beneath it. Hooking up my MacBook takes 8 seconds, as does booting either of the two in target mode. I don't need to re-boot either of the two Macs in order to get to Disk Utility (or TechTool Pro); the Macs are always up. I just have to shut down the ailing one and re-start in target mode. Booting from a System DVD takes at least 4 minutes.
FireWire is practically ALWAYS faster than USB2 (SD card slot goes via USB bus). Theoretically, USB2 has 480Mbps throughput, and original FW had 400Mbps, but due to significant amount of overhead on USB2, and inconsistent data transfer speeds, FireWire is always faster for moving massive amounts of non-contiguous data (such as thousands of small files) back and forth.
For me, target mode often did the trick faster than booting from USB. My iMac is always at my home desk, and FW cable is in the drawer beneath it. Hooking up my MacBook takes 8 seconds, as does booting either of the two in target mode. I don't need to re-boot either of the two Macs in order to get to Disk Utility (or TechTool Pro); the Macs are always up. I just have to shut down the ailing one and re-start in target mode. Booting from a System DVD takes at least 4 minutes.
But you still need two Macs and nothing I stated precludes the ability to use a FW attached external drive.
The MBP is only $100 more after you upgrade the Macbook to 4GB of RAM, plus the MBP can get another 4GB on top of that, as well as the other differences.
It's awfully presumptuous to make the statement "after you upgrade the memory to 4GB". My hunch the percentage of MacBooks that leave Apple's store with 4GB of memory is pretty darn small. Yes, people who know they need 4GB of RAM are probably looking at the MBP quite seriously. However, Apple is still selling MacBooks by the boatload according to all accounts.
It's awfully presumptuous to make the statement "after you upgrade the memory to 4GB". My hunch the percentage of MacBooks that leave Apple's store with 4GB of memory is pretty darn small. Yes, people who know they need 4GB of RAM are probably looking at the MBP quite seriously. However, Apple is still selling MacBooks by the boatload according to all accounts.
There was a time that you really couldn't have enough RAM if you could afford it, but I have been using 4GB since 2006(?) and rarely go over 50% despite running many apps. Of course, I'm not running Pro apps that require excessive RAM but neither is the average user. I'd say that 2GB is more than adequate for the average user, even if they are coming from a Windows machine that had 3-4GB since Windows machines typically use more, especially if they came with pre-installed crapware.
Comments
Other than the increased memory, what else does the 13" MacBook Pro offer over the new MacBook.
???
• Stronger case with better resale value
• Smaller on all three dimensions and lighter
• IR port
• They used to use a better display tech, starting with the MBA, but it might be cheaper to just buy all the same now. We'd have to check the manu/mod in Sys Prefs » Displays » Color tab » Open Profile » #17.
edit: Pipped by John.B. Removed duplicate items.
Wow, you'd still have to pay VAT if you bought something from outside the country? That's a little nuts.
Of course, I live in Delaware, where there is NO sales tax on anything at all
How would they know you bought a computer on your trip though? Do you have to declare it on your way out of the country?
I take it you've not traveled much out of the country. This is the whole reason you have to go through customs when you travel internationally. Goods over a certain amount (in the US I believe it's still $200 for a single day, or $400 for any travel longer than a day) are required to be claimed upon return to one's home country, and local tax (duty) is then levied on those goods (this is why you can frequently receive a refund of taxes paid in the foreign country upon departure; you avoid paying taxes twice).
Customs can choose to inspect your bags to verify you are not bringing unclaimed items. Many people travel with receipts for any electronics they travel with (imagine bringing your personal laptop or an expensive camera with you when you travel, and customs believing you bought it overseas--you'd end up paying duty on an item you'd already paid local tax on). If they catch you, you'll pay penalties on top of the levy.
Me as well. And I think the low-end 21.5" iMac still has the 9400M that also needs the 320M.
Does anyone know if the updated white MacBook got audio out on the mini-DisplayPort connector like the refreshed MBPs got? (Not that I'm interested in that model of MacBook, I'm just curious when it will show up in the mini...)
I think the days of nVidia integrated video in the iMac are over. Apple will move to Core i3/i5/i7 for the iMac making it necessary to include discrete GPUs in all models.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new iMac. Apple is waiting for Intel to update their product line and thus improve performance per dollar before making any changes to the iMac. The Core i5-750 and Core i7-860 that Apple uses haven't dropped in price even one penny since their introduction in 2009.
Lack of movement by Intel and the generally weak economy is what's behind the long delay in getting a new Mac Pro too. The mini sells well even when it's crippled so Apple has little reason to update its specs any time soon.
Here's my revised predictions for 2010...
June: new iPhone 3Gx with OS 4.0
July: nothing new
August: MacBook Air, Mac Pro
September: new iPods, iPhone OS 4.0 arrives for iPad
October: Mac mini and iMac
November/December: as usual, nothing new
IMO, FW800 alone is worth the difference just to get target disk mode support.
I have no idea why anyone uses TDM. It's not even close to being the most efficient method for troubleshooting a modern Mac.
I have no idea why anyone uses TDM. It's not even close to being the most efficient method for troubleshooting a modern Mac.
It is however a darned fast way of migration or simply moving large amounts of stuff from Mac to Mac.
OK I'll bite - what is the "most efficient method for troubleshooting a modern Mac"?
I have no idea why anyone uses TDM. It's not even close to being the most efficient method for troubleshooting a modern Mac.
Not for trouble-shooting. For fixing/repairing disk data problems. Often times, it is faster to boot an ailing Mac in the target disc mode, hook it up to a working Mac with all the disk diagnostic tools and trouble-shoot from there, rather than booting from a trouble-shooting bootable CD (sloooooow), or having a separate, dedicated external bootable hard drive with those diagnostic tools.
I use both, although I'll always prefer booting in target mode and working from my other Mac, over booting from a 'TechTool Pro' DVD (or a USB disk/flash equivalent). It is just much faster.
Gone up from £816 to £840 in the UK
I wasn't saying it was Apple's fault for this btw. I was sad at the current exchange rate and VAT rise - I do realise how these things work
It is however a darned fast way of migration or simply moving large amounts of stuff from Mac to Mac.
That is how I used to do a migration before Time Machine. Now I can do the same thing with more automation, without the need for a FW cable that was designed to go from Mac-to-Mac (not Mac-to-external-HDD), and without having two Macs tied up at the same time in the same place to accomplish this goal.
OK I'll bite - what is the "most efficient method for troubleshooting a modern Mac"?
Any HDD, SSD, USB Flash Drive or SD card with Mac OS X or Restore Disc on it. Apple Stores use this via USB or FW to get into any Mac without the need of a 2nd Mac. Just hold down Option key and choose a boot partition.
Looks like Apple-related rumor-mongering has now been driven out of the US. (In these days of global supply chains, good luck, Apple!).
Outsourced rumors!
Not for trouble-shooting. For fixing/repairing disk data problems. Often times, it is faster to boot an ailing Mac in the target disc mode, hook it up to a working Mac with all the disk diagnostic tools and trouble-shoot from there, rather than booting from a trouble-shooting bootable CD (sloooooow), or having a separate, dedicated external bootable hard drive with those diagnostic tools.
I use both, although I'll always prefer booting in target mode and working from my other Mac, over booting from a 'TechTool Pro' DVD (or a USB disk/flash equivalent). It is just much faster.
What is slow about USB or SD? Surely that is faster than a HDD in another Mac. Unless there is some HW issue that allows you to access TDM but disallows you to use that Mac from a different boot partitionI don't see the benefit of having of using two Macs, carrying a FW cable and adapters or additional cables incase you need to go from W400-to-FW400, FW400-to-FW800 or FW800-to-FW800. I've never tried doing it over Ethernet.
Probably not in this audience but a lot of Mac users will never hook up anything to their FW port. Your typical MacBook user would definitely fit into the category.
People who don't know about computer specs and are attracted to the soothing white ceramic looks of the case.
Women and children mostly.
Actually, the white MacBook is the best selling Mac, so it's obviously seen as desirable by a lot more than women and children, although price is probably the biggest factor. While you may perceive the 13" MBP as a better value, it still costs more and many who buy this machine are probably converts from $400-$500 Dell machines, so they're already paying a lot more than they have in the past.
And that's aside from the fact that your comment is both sexist and ageist.
People who don't know about computer specs and are attracted to the soothing white ceramic looks of the case.
I find there are a lot of people who think they know about "computer specs" but make choices based on very limited data points. For instance, claiming that the C2D is from 2006 and saying that Core-i3 with Intel HD would have been better simply because it's "newer". Or wanting a higher-rez display without ever mentioning the other numerous and important aspects of the display and its backlight.
I think the $899 MacBook is a great buy, but I think the $1,099 13" MBP is a better choice. In fact, I was so impressed with the additions to the latest 13" MBP update that decided to not go with a 15" MBP this time and choose the 13" again.
Actually, the white MacBook is the best selling Mac, so it's obviously seen as desirable by a lot more than women and children, although price is probably the biggest factor. While you may perceive the 13" MBP as a better value, it still costs more and many who buy this machine are probably converts from $400-$500 Dell machines, so they're already paying a lot more than they have in the past.
And that's aside from the fact that your comment is both sexist and ageist.
Schiller says it's the best selling Mac, ever.In February 2009 it looks like the MBP was the best selling Mac. If true, I think it's possible that the 13" MBP could be outselling the MacBook.
Core-i3 with Intel HD would have been better simply because it's "newer". Or wanting a higher-rez display without ever mentioning the other numerous and important aspects of the display and its backlight.
I think the $899 MacBook is a great buy, but I think the $1,099 13" MBP is a better choice.
People react to buzzwords and, not being tech geeks, don't always know all the various bits that make up a better quality item (IPS over TFT for screens for example).
You're missing $100 on both of those options. If you mean from the education store, then it's $949 and $1099. The MBP is only $100 more after you upgrade the Macbook to 4GB of RAM, plus the MBP can get another 4GB on top of that, as well as the other differences.
Gone up from £816 to £840 in the UK
Remember we have tax too so add 7% on that $999 for me in Florida.
What is slow about USB or SD? Surely that is faster than a HDD in another Mac.
FireWire is practically ALWAYS faster than USB2 (SD card slot goes via USB bus). Theoretically, USB2 has 480Mbps throughput, and original FW had 400Mbps, but due to significant amount of overhead on USB2, and inconsistent data transfer speeds, FireWire is always faster for moving massive amounts of non-contiguous data (such as thousands of small files) back and forth.
For me, target mode often did the trick faster than booting from USB. My iMac is always at my home desk, and FW cable is in the drawer beneath it. Hooking up my MacBook takes 8 seconds, as does booting either of the two in target mode. I don't need to re-boot either of the two Macs in order to get to Disk Utility (or TechTool Pro); the Macs are always up. I just have to shut down the ailing one and re-start in target mode. Booting from a System DVD takes at least 4 minutes.
FireWire is practically ALWAYS faster than USB2 (SD card slot goes via USB bus). Theoretically, USB2 has 480Mbps throughput, and original FW had 400Mbps, but due to significant amount of overhead on USB2, and inconsistent data transfer speeds, FireWire is always faster for moving massive amounts of non-contiguous data (such as thousands of small files) back and forth.
For me, target mode often did the trick faster than booting from USB. My iMac is always at my home desk, and FW cable is in the drawer beneath it. Hooking up my MacBook takes 8 seconds, as does booting either of the two in target mode. I don't need to re-boot either of the two Macs in order to get to Disk Utility (or TechTool Pro); the Macs are always up. I just have to shut down the ailing one and re-start in target mode. Booting from a System DVD takes at least 4 minutes.
But you still need two Macs and nothing I stated precludes the ability to use a FW attached external drive.
...
The MBP is only $100 more after you upgrade the Macbook to 4GB of RAM, plus the MBP can get another 4GB on top of that, as well as the other differences.
It's awfully presumptuous to make the statement "after you upgrade the memory to 4GB". My hunch the percentage of MacBooks that leave Apple's store with 4GB of memory is pretty darn small. Yes, people who know they need 4GB of RAM are probably looking at the MBP quite seriously. However, Apple is still selling MacBooks by the boatload according to all accounts.
It's awfully presumptuous to make the statement "after you upgrade the memory to 4GB". My hunch the percentage of MacBooks that leave Apple's store with 4GB of memory is pretty darn small. Yes, people who know they need 4GB of RAM are probably looking at the MBP quite seriously. However, Apple is still selling MacBooks by the boatload according to all accounts.
There was a time that you really couldn't have enough RAM if you could afford it, but I have been using 4GB since 2006(?) and rarely go over 50% despite running many apps. Of course, I'm not running Pro apps that require excessive RAM but neither is the average user. I'd say that 2GB is more than adequate for the average user, even if they are coming from a Windows machine that had 3-4GB since Windows machines typically use more, especially if they came with pre-installed crapware.