13" MBP should be called MB. Still don't get why they did rebranding. Why no offer of black plastic MB?
P.S. notebook branding at Apple is really unapple. Why have MBP? just call all of them MacBook. With current specs of MB and 13MBP seems just right to call them both MB.
Other than the increased memory, what else does the 13" MacBook Pro offer over the new MacBook.???
Thank you for asking the question, I was going to ask the same question after looking at the specs for both and wanted a clear answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B
Aluminum unibody enclosure. FireWire 800, built-in SD card slot, backlit keyboard, and a battery level indicator. If that's the form factor you are looking for, it's totally worth the $100 price difference between the 13" MBP and the 13" white MacBook upgraded to 4GB.
IMO, FW800 alone is worth the difference just to get target disk mode support.
Thank you for answering the question. Seems worth the extra $199 for the MBP.
It's awfully presumptuous to make the statement "after you upgrade the memory to 4GB". My hunch the percentage of MacBooks that leave Apple's store with 4GB of memory is pretty darn small. Yes, people who know they need 4GB of RAM are probably looking at the MBP quite seriously. However, Apple is still selling MacBooks by the boatload according to all accounts.
I'm presuming nothing, I was speaking to the value differences between the MB and the MBP. When trying to make the comparison as accurately as possible, you first have to equal out what you can, ie upgrade the RAM to match the base RAM in the MBP. The difference is 4GB is only half the max of the MBP, whereas it is the max for the MB. I'm not saying one way or the other whether I think people need the 8GB or not, but if you are on the fence between the 2, that could well be one of the things that makes you choose one way or the other.
13" MBP should be called MB. Still don't get why they did rebranding. Why no offer of black plastic MB?
P.S. notebook branding at Apple is really unapple. Why have MBP? just call all of them MacBook. With current specs of MB and 13MBP seems just right to call them both MB.
Because there's the consumer line and the pro line. MacBook is the consumer line and MacBook Pro is the pro line. What part of that do you need to have spelled out for you?
That is how I used to do a migration before Time Machine. Now I can do the same thing with more automation, without the need for a FW cable that was designed to go from Mac-to-Mac (not Mac-to-external-HDD), and without having two Macs tied up at the same time in the same place to accomplish this goal.
Two weeks ago when I was transferring data from my 2.0GHz mini to my 2.53GHz mini, I literally used the same FW800->FW800 cable for TDM that I normally use for my FW HDD or my FW CF card reader. The only reason I keep FW800->FW400 or FW400 cables around is that my FireWireaudiointerfaces haven't been updated to FW800 connectors yet.
I certainly couldn't chain two audio interfaces through a hard drive via USB (nor would performance be acceptable).
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Any HDD, SSD, USB Flash Drive or SD card with Mac OS X or Restore Disc on it. Apple Stores use this via USB or FW to get into any Mac without the need of a 2nd Mac. Just hold down Option key and choose a boot partition.
Why give up one of your tools in your toolset? It's not like any of the stuff above prevents you from using TDM where it makes sense.
Frankly, thumb drives and keyboards are the places where USB makes sense (where performance doesn't matter).
Two weeks ago when I was transferring data from my 2.0GHz mini to my 2.53GHz mini, I literally used the same FW800->FW800 cable for TDM that I normally use for my FW HDD or my FW CF card reader. The only reason I keep FW800->FW400 or FW400 cables around is that my FireWireaudiointerfaces haven't been updated to FW800 connectors yet.
I certainly couldn't chain two audio interfaces through a hard drive via USB (nor would performance be acceptable).
Why give up one of your tools in your toolset? It's not like any of the stuff above prevents you from using TDM where it makes sense.
Frankly, thumb drives and keyboards are the places where USB makes sense (where performance doesn't matter).
There are pros and cons here. You need a different adapter if the Mac has FW400 or FW800. With USB1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 the connector is backwards compatible, not just in the signaling but in the port interface.
I have nothing against FW. My comments focusing on the extra effort to migrate, troubleshoot and repair using a 2nd Mac, the extra effort to troubleshoot using an extra Mac, and the speed issues with troubleshooting using the optical Restore Disc.
If I need to fix a friend or family member's Mac I don't need to take my Mac with me. I can do it all from a device that fits in my pocket. If I need to repair my boot drive I can do it all without the need of another Mac or the optical Restore Disc.
It's all extra effort, extra HW and extra time.
For instance, I bought a new MBP recently. One I installed the SSD, removed the ODD and placed an extra HDD in its place I installed the Mac OS X using an SD Card. Then I "migrated" my system using Time Machine.
While this was going on I was able to clean up my previous MBP and box everything up nicely. There was no need to run both of them or us the slow optical disc for the installation.
edit: FW HDDs aren't always FW800 or FW400. I had one that used the 3-pin connector, but yeah, usually they are one of those two ports so you can get away with having a single adapter and single cable for troubleshooting so long as you are using a Mac with the same FW port.
Because there's the consumer line and the pro line. MacBook is the consumer line and MacBook Pro is the pro line. What part of that do you need to have spelled out for you?
I'm in the unique (or infamous) Aluminium Macbook club, the only OS X Mac with built in optical drive not to come with Firewire.
It wasn't the Pro model in 2008 but it has most of the features of the current Macbook Pro 13", so the lines can be blurred.
Firewire would have been useful for transferring files via TDM from the old Powerbook. I was more worried about using it for the camcorder.
Two years later and I'm still very happy with its performance - the camcorder I use plugs into the USB and all the files are transferred from the old Powerbook.
Nevertheless I'd be pleased with Firewire when I buy a new Macbook (Pro) in the next few years.
I'm in the unique (or infamous) Aluminium Macbook club, the only OS X Mac with built in optical drive not to come with Firewire.
It wasn't the Pro model in 2008 but it has most of the features of the current Macbook Pro 13", so the lines can be blurred.
Presumably, you knew it didn't have Firewire when you bought it, so it's not clear why you're complaining.
Perhaps there might be some consumer models with some pro features, but that doesn't change the fact that there's value to having at least 2 product lines for laptops - just like 2 product lines for desktops (iMac and Pro).
So the new MB starts out $200 less than a 13" MBP. By the time you put 4 GB of RAM in the MB, it'll be only $100 cheaper. By spending just $100 more for the MBP, you get firewire, an SD card slot, aluminum enclosure, and backlit keyboard. In all seriousness, considering the minute difference in price, why would anyone buy a MacBook over the low-end 13" MacBook Pro?
Having played the pricing game with several 3rd party startups, I would have to think they are targeting volume, discounted pricing for education and government.
The 10 hr battery life is a bunch of crap. Just got the 10 hr macbook pro and see maybe about 7 or 8 at the most with not too much running in the background and screen turned down.
Maybe you should read the fine print to learn how Apple achieved the 10 hours. It wasn't from running multiple programs in the background, as you suggested. So I guess the reported gas mileage on your car is a bunch of crap too because no one drives their car the way the manufacturer achieved those numbers either.
Apple on Tuesday quietly updated its low-end MacBook, giving the entry-level hardware a 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, Nvidia GeForce 320M graphics, and a reported 10 hours of battery life.
I never understand why Apple issues machine updates in this "quiet" or "silent" method -- without even a press release or any way for anyone to know it actually happened unless they are checking and comparing specs daily. (or reading the insider/tech news sites .
just curious why they do not bother with announcing what is obviously a (slightly) more bang-for-your-buck situation?
Presumably, you knew it didn't have Firewire when you bought it, so it's not clear why you're complaining.
Perhaps there might be some consumer models with some pro features, but that doesn't change the fact that there's value to having at least 2 product lines for laptops - just like 2 product lines for desktops (iMac and Pro).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA
Two years later and I'm still very happy with its performance
I'm surprised you thought I was complaining.
At the time of purchase, October 2008, there was no Apple 13" laptop with Firewire and the then new NVidia GeForce 9400M graphics. There was a choice between:
- the old plastic Macbook with Firewire but with Intel X3100 graphics and no backlit keyboard
- the brand new Aluminium Macbook 13" with faster processor, Nvidia graphics but no Firewire
- the new 15" Aluminium Macbook Pro with Firewire but larger size and weight.
For me portability and performance were a priority over Firewire which would have had at most occasional use.
I think Jobs once said something about compromise in designing laptops in response to why there's no $600 Apple laptop.
Equally there's compromise in what you buy and what you can afford to spend.
Those who want a compact machine with Firewire and backlit keyboard will go for the 13" Macbook Pro. Those who can quite happily live without will go for the cheaper white Macbook.
The MacBook bump didn't make the homepage (not even as a below-the-fold tile).
I know it's not a big bump, but it tells you that iPad, iPhone OS 4, MacBook Pro, iPhone 3GS and iMac are all more important to Apple than the once all-conquering MacBook.
September: new iPods, iPhone OS 4.0 arrives for iPad
October: Mac mini and iMac
November/December: as usual, nothing new
No Mac Pro until August?
If that's the case it's really time for Apple to introduce a desktop without all the ”Xeon class” components. We are in need of Mac Pro's at work (photo retouch), but it would feel crazy to pay such a high price for the technology in the current Mac Pro (over one year old). If one look around what components are available if you build your own PC it almost makes a switch to Windows feel like a good option – especially now with Windows 7 which seems to work pretty well and I think the new user interface is the first really good one for Windows.
Come on Apple - keep up a little more with technology on the desktop side of computing (and I'm not talking about iMac here, which is pretty good except for the graphics card and the display won't cut it for professional photo retouching).
I think the days of nVidia integrated video in the iMac are over. Apple will move to Core i3/i5/i7 for the iMac making it necessary to include discrete GPUs in all models.
Yup, Core i5 and i7 through the whole iMac line. Hopefully some ATI 5 series discrete GPUs... Who knows, Nvidia maybe throwing their GPUs at Apple, "Please, take them, take them!!".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new iMac. Apple is waiting for Intel to update their product line and thus improve performance per dollar before making any changes to the iMac.
Yeah. Intel's production of Core i5 and i7 is a bit lower than Intel even expected. Meaning Core 2 Duos will still be churned out and Core i5 and i7s still command a premium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
Here's my revised predictions for 2010...
June: new iPhone 3Gx with OS 4.0
July: nothing new
August: MacBook Air, Mac Pro
September: new iPods, iPhone OS 4.0 arrives for iPad
October: Mac mini and iMac
November/December: as usual, nothing new
Yup, we may not see an iMac refresh until it is prepared for holiday season frenzy, meaning September or as late as October.
I never understand why Apple issues machine updates in this "quiet" or "silent" method -- without even a press release or any way for anyone to know it actually happened unless they are checking and comparing specs daily. (or reading the insider/tech news sites .
just curious why they do not bother with announcing what is obviously a (slightly) more bang-for-your-buck situation?
I think it's mostly branding and market focus. Probably several factors involved:
1. Apple is pushing the iPad hard right now and while they continue to improve Macs, they don't want to distract from the main focus. Next month, it will probably be the iPhone. After that, they'll get back to making the Mac more visible.
2. Leftover channel supply. There may be older ones in the channel and they don't want retailers to have to resort to clearance sales.
3. Branding. Apple doesn't want to be perceived as the geek vendor who's all concerned about specs. It's all about usability and style. Adding a couple hundred MHz to the CPU doesn't change that. Do you know what the processor is in your HDTV? Do you care? That's what Apple is working to achieve - appliance computers for the consumer lines, at least. The pro lines are a little different.
Comments
P.S. notebook branding at Apple is really unapple. Why have MBP? just call all of them MacBook. With current specs of MB and 13MBP seems just right to call them both MB.
I like the silver better because I think the White can get filthy dirty.
Having said that if you go on the apple web site under the refurb today they hvae the white one for $759!!! That is a deal
Other than the increased memory, what else does the 13" MacBook Pro offer over the new MacBook.???
Thank you for asking the question, I was going to ask the same question after looking at the specs for both and wanted a clear answer.
Aluminum unibody enclosure. FireWire 800, built-in SD card slot, backlit keyboard, and a battery level indicator. If that's the form factor you are looking for, it's totally worth the $100 price difference between the 13" MBP and the 13" white MacBook upgraded to 4GB.
IMO, FW800 alone is worth the difference just to get target disk mode support.
Thank you for answering the question. Seems worth the extra $199 for the MBP.
Thanks people.
It's awfully presumptuous to make the statement "after you upgrade the memory to 4GB". My hunch the percentage of MacBooks that leave Apple's store with 4GB of memory is pretty darn small. Yes, people who know they need 4GB of RAM are probably looking at the MBP quite seriously. However, Apple is still selling MacBooks by the boatload according to all accounts.
I'm presuming nothing, I was speaking to the value differences between the MB and the MBP. When trying to make the comparison as accurately as possible, you first have to equal out what you can, ie upgrade the RAM to match the base RAM in the MBP. The difference is 4GB is only half the max of the MBP, whereas it is the max for the MB. I'm not saying one way or the other whether I think people need the 8GB or not, but if you are on the fence between the 2, that could well be one of the things that makes you choose one way or the other.
13" MBP should be called MB. Still don't get why they did rebranding. Why no offer of black plastic MB?
P.S. notebook branding at Apple is really unapple. Why have MBP? just call all of them MacBook. With current specs of MB and 13MBP seems just right to call them both MB.
Because there's the consumer line and the pro line. MacBook is the consumer line and MacBook Pro is the pro line. What part of that do you need to have spelled out for you?
That is how I used to do a migration before Time Machine. Now I can do the same thing with more automation, without the need for a FW cable that was designed to go from Mac-to-Mac (not Mac-to-external-HDD), and without having two Macs tied up at the same time in the same place to accomplish this goal.
Sol, I really don't get this.
It's USB that has separate types of connectors for the computer (Type A) and peripheral (Type
Two weeks ago when I was transferring data from my 2.0GHz mini to my 2.53GHz mini, I literally used the same FW800->FW800 cable for TDM that I normally use for my FW HDD or my FW CF card reader. The only reason I keep FW800->FW400 or FW400 cables around is that my FireWire audio interfaces haven't been updated to FW800 connectors yet.
I certainly couldn't chain two audio interfaces through a hard drive via USB (nor would performance be acceptable).
Any HDD, SSD, USB Flash Drive or SD card with Mac OS X or Restore Disc on it. Apple Stores use this via USB or FW to get into any Mac without the need of a 2nd Mac. Just hold down Option key and choose a boot partition.
Why give up one of your tools in your toolset? It's not like any of the stuff above prevents you from using TDM where it makes sense.
Frankly, thumb drives and keyboards are the places where USB makes sense (where performance doesn't matter).
Sol, I really don't get this.
It's USB that has separate types of connectors for the computer (Type A) and peripheral (Type
Two weeks ago when I was transferring data from my 2.0GHz mini to my 2.53GHz mini, I literally used the same FW800->FW800 cable for TDM that I normally use for my FW HDD or my FW CF card reader. The only reason I keep FW800->FW400 or FW400 cables around is that my FireWire audio interfaces haven't been updated to FW800 connectors yet.
I certainly couldn't chain two audio interfaces through a hard drive via USB (nor would performance be acceptable).
Why give up one of your tools in your toolset? It's not like any of the stuff above prevents you from using TDM where it makes sense.
Frankly, thumb drives and keyboards are the places where USB makes sense (where performance doesn't matter).
There are pros and cons here. You need a different adapter if the Mac has FW400 or FW800. With USB1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 the connector is backwards compatible, not just in the signaling but in the port interface.
I have nothing against FW. My comments focusing on the extra effort to migrate, troubleshoot and repair using a 2nd Mac, the extra effort to troubleshoot using an extra Mac, and the speed issues with troubleshooting using the optical Restore Disc.
If I need to fix a friend or family member's Mac I don't need to take my Mac with me. I can do it all from a device that fits in my pocket. If I need to repair my boot drive I can do it all without the need of another Mac or the optical Restore Disc.
It's all extra effort, extra HW and extra time.
For instance, I bought a new MBP recently. One I installed the SSD, removed the ODD and placed an extra HDD in its place I installed the Mac OS X using an SD Card. Then I "migrated" my system using Time Machine.
While this was going on I was able to clean up my previous MBP and box everything up nicely. There was no need to run both of them or us the slow optical disc for the installation.
edit: FW HDDs aren't always FW800 or FW400. I had one that used the 3-pin connector, but yeah, usually they are one of those two ports so you can get away with having a single adapter and single cable for troubleshooting so long as you are using a Mac with the same FW port.
Because there's the consumer line and the pro line. MacBook is the consumer line and MacBook Pro is the pro line. What part of that do you need to have spelled out for you?
I'm in the unique (or infamous) Aluminium Macbook club, the only OS X Mac with built in optical drive not to come with Firewire.
It wasn't the Pro model in 2008 but it has most of the features of the current Macbook Pro 13", so the lines can be blurred.
Firewire would have been useful for transferring files via TDM from the old Powerbook. I was more worried about using it for the camcorder.
Two years later and I'm still very happy with its performance - the camcorder I use plugs into the USB and all the files are transferred from the old Powerbook.
Nevertheless I'd be pleased with Firewire when I buy a new Macbook (Pro) in the next few years.
I'm in the unique (or infamous) Aluminium Macbook club, the only OS X Mac with built in optical drive not to come with Firewire.
It wasn't the Pro model in 2008 but it has most of the features of the current Macbook Pro 13", so the lines can be blurred.
Presumably, you knew it didn't have Firewire when you bought it, so it's not clear why you're complaining.
Perhaps there might be some consumer models with some pro features, but that doesn't change the fact that there's value to having at least 2 product lines for laptops - just like 2 product lines for desktops (iMac and Pro).
So the new MB starts out $200 less than a 13" MBP. By the time you put 4 GB of RAM in the MB, it'll be only $100 cheaper. By spending just $100 more for the MBP, you get firewire, an SD card slot, aluminum enclosure, and backlit keyboard. In all seriousness, considering the minute difference in price, why would anyone buy a MacBook over the low-end 13" MacBook Pro?
Having played the pricing game with several 3rd party startups, I would have to think they are targeting volume, discounted pricing for education and government.
But that's just me....
The 10 hr battery life is a bunch of crap. Just got the 10 hr macbook pro and see maybe about 7 or 8 at the most with not too much running in the background and screen turned down.
Maybe you should read the fine print to learn how Apple achieved the 10 hours. It wasn't from running multiple programs in the background, as you suggested. So I guess the reported gas mileage on your car is a bunch of crap too because no one drives their car the way the manufacturer achieved those numbers either.
Here is how you can maximize your battery life:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
Apple on Tuesday quietly updated its low-end MacBook, giving the entry-level hardware a 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, Nvidia GeForce 320M graphics, and a reported 10 hours of battery life.
I never understand why Apple issues machine updates in this "quiet" or "silent" method -- without even a press release or any way for anyone to know it actually happened unless they are checking and comparing specs daily. (or reading the insider/tech news sites
just curious why they do not bother with announcing what is obviously a (slightly) more bang-for-your-buck situation?
Presumably, you knew it didn't have Firewire when you bought it, so it's not clear why you're complaining.
Perhaps there might be some consumer models with some pro features, but that doesn't change the fact that there's value to having at least 2 product lines for laptops - just like 2 product lines for desktops (iMac and Pro).
Two years later and I'm still very happy with its performance
I'm surprised you thought I was complaining.
At the time of purchase, October 2008, there was no Apple 13" laptop with Firewire and the then new NVidia GeForce 9400M graphics. There was a choice between:
- the old plastic Macbook with Firewire but with Intel X3100 graphics and no backlit keyboard
- the brand new Aluminium Macbook 13" with faster processor, Nvidia graphics but no Firewire
- the new 15" Aluminium Macbook Pro with Firewire but larger size and weight.
For me portability and performance were a priority over Firewire which would have had at most occasional use.
I think Jobs once said something about compromise in designing laptops in response to why there's no $600 Apple laptop.
Equally there's compromise in what you buy and what you can afford to spend.
Those who want a compact machine with Firewire and backlit keyboard will go for the 13" Macbook Pro. Those who can quite happily live without will go for the cheaper white Macbook.
The MacBook bump didn't make the homepage (not even as a below-the-fold tile).
I know it's not a big bump, but it tells you that iPad, iPhone OS 4, MacBook Pro, iPhone 3GS and iMac are all more important to Apple than the once all-conquering MacBook.
Here's my revised predictions for 2010...
June: new iPhone 3Gx with OS 4.0
July: nothing new
August: MacBook Air, Mac Pro
September: new iPods, iPhone OS 4.0 arrives for iPad
October: Mac mini and iMac
November/December: as usual, nothing new
No Mac Pro until August?
If that's the case it's really time for Apple to introduce a desktop without all the ”Xeon class” components. We are in need of Mac Pro's at work (photo retouch), but it would feel crazy to pay such a high price for the technology in the current Mac Pro (over one year old). If one look around what components are available if you build your own PC it almost makes a switch to Windows feel like a good option – especially now with Windows 7 which seems to work pretty well and I think the new user interface is the first really good one for Windows.
Come on Apple - keep up a little more with technology on the desktop side of computing (and I'm not talking about iMac here, which is pretty good except for the graphics card and the display won't cut it for professional photo retouching).
I think the days of nVidia integrated video in the iMac are over. Apple will move to Core i3/i5/i7 for the iMac making it necessary to include discrete GPUs in all models.
Yup, Core i5 and i7 through the whole iMac line. Hopefully some ATI 5 series discrete GPUs... Who knows, Nvidia maybe throwing their GPUs at Apple, "Please, take them, take them!!".
Don't hold your breath waiting for a new iMac. Apple is waiting for Intel to update their product line and thus improve performance per dollar before making any changes to the iMac.
Yeah. Intel's production of Core i5 and i7 is a bit lower than Intel even expected. Meaning Core 2 Duos will still be churned out and Core i5 and i7s still command a premium.
Here's my revised predictions for 2010...
June: new iPhone 3Gx with OS 4.0
July: nothing new
August: MacBook Air, Mac Pro
September: new iPods, iPhone OS 4.0 arrives for iPad
October: Mac mini and iMac
November/December: as usual, nothing new
Yup, we may not see an iMac refresh until it is prepared for holiday season frenzy, meaning September or as late as October.
June: iPhone HD, OS 4.0 for iPhone 3G and 3GS
July: Maybe, maybe MacBook Air, Mac Pro otherwise
August/September
September: new iPods very likely
October: iMac
November/December: nothing
Mac mini: anytime between tomorrow and never.
I never understand why Apple issues machine updates in this "quiet" or "silent" method -- without even a press release or any way for anyone to know it actually happened unless they are checking and comparing specs daily. (or reading the insider/tech news sites
just curious why they do not bother with announcing what is obviously a (slightly) more bang-for-your-buck situation?
I think it's mostly branding and market focus. Probably several factors involved:
1. Apple is pushing the iPad hard right now and while they continue to improve Macs, they don't want to distract from the main focus. Next month, it will probably be the iPhone. After that, they'll get back to making the Mac more visible.
2. Leftover channel supply. There may be older ones in the channel and they don't want retailers to have to resort to clearance sales.
3. Branding. Apple doesn't want to be perceived as the geek vendor who's all concerned about specs. It's all about usability and style. Adding a couple hundred MHz to the CPU doesn't change that. Do you know what the processor is in your HDTV? Do you care? That's what Apple is working to achieve - appliance computers for the consumer lines, at least. The pro lines are a little different.