C'mon, Apple - now you're just being needlessly stubborn. Add it as a goddam option and get it over with.
I think the stubborn is you. Its a smaller machine compared to the old, the old didn't had space for a blue ray drive. This mac Mini got CNC treatment that I think it is the reason it got expensive. Either way you can always buy an external blue ray. OWC has them and they come bundled with Toast that supports burning and all the goodies related.
I think that's what people have a problem with. Apple prioritized miniaturization, but for a stationary machine that seems to be an unsavory (and unnecessary) compromise. By shrinking the form factor Apple has both boxed themselves in a corner in terms of user-expandability AND added to the production costs. And for what?
What part of 'Mini' don't you get? The desktop Macs are iMacs and Mac Pros.
Let's go through the process:
Apple evaluates all the options out there. They could build a computer in a cardboard box. They could build the legendary midi-Mac. They could build a Mini with BD. They could build a Mac Pro with 8 six-core processors. And so on.
Now, based on their 30 years of experience and best marketing skills in the industry, they have chosen a product range. This range was selected as being their evaluation of what would yield them the greatest profits by satisfying the largest number of customers. They've demonstrated an uncanny ability to do this - at least based on results over the last 5 years or so.
They don't offer the specific item you want - whether it's BD or larger box or more RAM or cheaper price or whatever. Too bad. It's not going to happen. Obviously, Apple thinks that the number of people wanting (and willing to pay for ) what you are requesting is not large enough to make it worthwhile. Until you can demonstrate that your abilities to succeed in this industry are greater than Apple's, JUST STOP THE WHINING.
Didn't saw a post about the drives... but could be interesting to see if removing the super drive on the regular model will let you add the second drive... could be nice to have a second drive internally for bootcamp like you can do on a Mac Pro. I have other macs so I could share the super drive from one of those if needed or boot the mini as target and install anything I want that way..
As I said, you're free to buy a cheapo system with immense failure rates and support lines that require you to speak Swahili if you wish. No one is stopping you.
BTW, That Inspiron is over twice the size of the Mini - miniaturization costs money.
The footprint is the same because it can stand on end.
And stop being racist about off-shore call centres, they speak English, often a lot better than the natives do.
And Dell's reliability isn't that poor, you really need to stop exaggerating. It's not as if Apple's products don't fail, you only need to look back at the major failures there have been.
It seems like Apple no long wants this to be an entry level product. The design, attention to detail and (likely) the engineering we'll see from the teardown will show this is now svelt premium product.
There is very little reason for them to use a milled block of aluminium for this machine type and to make it so small. It's more like a proof-of-concept than a machine you'd expect to see on the market.
It's not a bad premium either - it's only 28% more expensive than the original $499 Mac Mini when you take five years of inflation into account - even with the deflation included last years. It's around a total of 9% between 2005 and 2010.
But it is above that $500 barrier, and above the $600 barrier too. Could they have created a low-end variant to hit the $600 price point - slower CPU, no FW800, etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77
I believe that would be the green "power on" light. It is far too small to be an IR port, or even a paper clip hole--as some have suggested.
It's (the IR sensor) embedded in the drive bay, notice the gap to the right of the disc.
I believe that would be the green "power on" light. It is far too small to be an IR port, or even a paper clip hole--as some have suggested.
You're looking at the wrong place. It's that black hole on the right side of the disc that's actually not the hole, it's the IR receiver. So clever. Damn, 2 others beat me to it. Way too slow
It's not a bad premium either - it's only 28% more expensive than the original $499 Mac Mini when you take five years of inflation into account - even with the deflation included last years. It's around a total of 9% between 2005 and 2010.
But it is above that $500 barrier, and above the $600 barrier too. Could they have created a low-end variant to hit the $600 price point - slower CPU, no FW800, etc?
It's (the IR sensor) embedded in the drive bay, notice the gap to the right of the disc.
if you check PC prices than it's about the same. Expect to pay at least $650 for a PC with a graphics card not made by Intel that is close to what you get in the new Mini.
all the cheapo $500 PC's that everyone talks about all have Intel graphics
Didn't saw a post about the drives... but could be interesting to see if removing the super drive on the regular model will let you add the second drive... could be nice to have a second drive internally for bootcamp like you can do on a Mac Pro. I have other macs so I could share the super drive from one of those if needed or boot the mini as target and install anything I want that way..
What you think about that?
I recall reading that they use a special connector for the SuperDrive in the Mac Mini. I have no idea if that is correct or was ever correct, but OptiBay offers a solution for the older Mac Minis. I have to assume they will be getting this machine immediately and offer a solution on their site this week if it's a straight drop in.
Let me just say that the SD card slot on the back is nice, but inconvenient. My use case for SD cards is to pop them out of a camera, into a reader, import into iPhoto, pop out, put back in camera. Hiding the slot on the back side, possibly covered with cables, reduces its usefulness.
I also agree that the new mini is a gorgeous looking chunk of aluminum, but I also share the concern that the price is a bit high. Except for the server version. These things'll make great little servers to rack mount or for a small business.
Obviously, Apple thinks that the number of people wanting (and willing to pay for ) what you are requesting is not large enough to make it worthwhile. Until you can demonstrate that your abilities to succeed in this industry are greater than Apple's, JUST STOP THE WHINING.
You know, in numerous other threads we've been in complete agreement. But this is a sore point for me because, yes, I would personally like to upgrade my living room to Blu-ray at some point, and Apple has come so close to offering One Box To Rule Them All. I simply cannot stand having a table top full of remotes - that is a gigantic design failure on behalf of the CE industry. I dislike cable clutter as much as any purist Apple product designer. I want in integrated software interface that deals with all mainstream media types equally well.
What I don't agree with here is the post-facto rationalization that Apple has made the best product for this category. I'm an Apple user since 1984, and have owned probably three dozen Macs since then (including secondhand). But I don't think that every product decision from Apple has been a success. The Apple TV is one such example, and while it might be partially the problem of the studios who have completely screwed content licensing, there's no reason that Apple couldn't have offered a model with a BD option. There's the short-lived Apple HiFi (anyone remember that one?) There's the missed opportunity with NetFlix for Mac OS where Microsoft grabbed the ring instead with SilverLight. There's the fact that the iPhone remote app doesn't control Front Row, which seems like a pretty big oversight. There's Quicktime X putting the controls inside the window, obscuring the image you're trying to watch.
So no, I don't agree that Apple knows what they're doing in the living room, which is a huge shame because, again, they are so close! Meanwhile, the hated Microsoft, of all people, has probably sold more Xboxes and Media Servers (or whatever they're called) than Apple has sold Minis, Apple TVs, etc. combined. Do we really want to see Microsoft win the living room because of Apple's ideological hardware purity and botched efforts?
There's a lot to like from Apple. A tremendous amount, but I'm not in agreement that the new Mini is the best package that they could have offered, and certainly not for this price.
I'm just amazed this thing came about without one leaked photo, half assembled case, or whatever reaching the press. It is only a mini, but still, when was the last time you went to Apple's homepage and saw a product completely new and unexpected?
There's a lot of hand-wrining out ther about the price increase, and how the "entry-level" is now too high for many. I'm not so sure that market exists as it once did. Apple's moved beyond needing to have a low end hook to lure Windows users into their stores... Mac's pretty much sell themselves these days, and aren't the goofy one off laptop with the glowing logo in a sea of Dells... If you need proof of that go to any airport, library or coffee shop.
I don't think Apple sees this as the hook anymore... Rather it's now a niche machine (as it always was) for those who don't want a laptop and don't like the bulk of the iMac. This is a full featured Mac that is completely unobtrusive. Does it cost more than its PC Equivalent (if one existed)? Yep. Do MacBooks cost more than other laptops... Yep. Do Mac pro's cost more... You get the idea. People have been bitching about the cost of Apple's hardware since day one. Apple seems to be doing pretty well for themselves regardless of our thoughts. I for one think this thing is a damn engineering marvel like most of Apple's products these days. Looking at the old Mini I now use for a home server, it suddenly looks old and out of place in Apple's line up. Yesterday, I didn't give it a second thought. Still though, it's been the most rock solid little computer I've ever had, it's little G4 processor serving the needs of three daughters and now the entire family.
I like the new mini, price tag and all... Will I be getting one? Probably not anytime soon, but I'd certainly think no less anyone who did. And let's not miss the fact here that this is the first Mac with full HDMI output (although the last MacBook revision did kind of back it in of the DisplayPort). It's probably a safe bet to assume the next iMac refresh will include HDMI, and that the MacBook pros (space permitting) will most likely be sporting them soon, if not the enhanced DisplayPort of their lower priced cousin.
Berating people is uncalled for. The point is that Apple has increased the price. Which is a step backwards.
Unless I am completely off base here, the price increase is more a function of our failing, devalued currency than proof of a vindictive Apple. Expect all future product intros to reflect the plummeting value of the dollar in the pricing.
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
I suspect this topic has been covered hundreds of times on this forum. The belief / hope/ bet (take your pick) by Steve Jobs is that now or in the near future HD movies will be so readily available to rent or buy over the net that no one would drive to a store to buy or rent a DVD of any size shape or color. I am not expressing my opinion one way or the other here, simply explaining Apple's reasoning for not including BR in any Macs. It's a brave man that bets against SJ's batting average in predicting obsolete hardware ahead of the also ran hardware manufacturers. This list is quite large of past, correct decisions.
Let me just say that the SD card slot on the back is nice, but inconvenient. My use case for SD cards is to pop them out of a camera, into a reader, import into iPhoto, pop out, put back in camera. Hiding the slot on the back side, possibly covered with cables, reduces its usefulness.
I also agree that the new mini is a gorgeous looking chunk of aluminum, but I also share the concern that the price is a bit high. Except for the server version. These things'll make great little servers to rack mount or for a small business.
- Jasen.
It's inconvenient if you have the Mini tucked away, but seriously, this isn't like reaching around the back of a Dell Optiplex sitting under your desk. If the Mini's sitting on the desk in front of you, the slot's pretty easy to access... Front or back. The SD slot is above all cable ports near it, so I don't think it will get too covered up. Is it a bit of form over function... yes, but what else is new?
Comments
HDMI, but still no Blu-ray drive?
C'mon, Apple - now you're just being needlessly stubborn. Add it as a goddam option and get it over with.
I think the stubborn is you. Its a smaller machine compared to the old, the old didn't had space for a blue ray drive. This mac Mini got CNC treatment that I think it is the reason it got expensive. Either way you can always buy an external blue ray. OWC has them and they come bundled with Toast that supports burning and all the goodies related.
You are only bitching out without been rational
I think that's what people have a problem with. Apple prioritized miniaturization, but for a stationary machine that seems to be an unsavory (and unnecessary) compromise. By shrinking the form factor Apple has both boxed themselves in a corner in terms of user-expandability AND added to the production costs. And for what?
What part of 'Mini' don't you get? The desktop Macs are iMacs and Mac Pros.
Let's go through the process:
Apple evaluates all the options out there. They could build a computer in a cardboard box. They could build the legendary midi-Mac. They could build a Mini with BD. They could build a Mac Pro with 8 six-core processors. And so on.
Now, based on their 30 years of experience and best marketing skills in the industry, they have chosen a product range. This range was selected as being their evaluation of what would yield them the greatest profits by satisfying the largest number of customers. They've demonstrated an uncanny ability to do this - at least based on results over the last 5 years or so.
They don't offer the specific item you want - whether it's BD or larger box or more RAM or cheaper price or whatever. Too bad. It's not going to happen. Obviously, Apple thinks that the number of people wanting (and willing to pay for ) what you are requesting is not large enough to make it worthwhile. Until you can demonstrate that your abilities to succeed in this industry are greater than Apple's, JUST STOP THE WHINING.
http://www.lyricsdomain.com/18/rolli..._you_want.html
What you think about that?
As I said, you're free to buy a cheapo system with immense failure rates and support lines that require you to speak Swahili if you wish. No one is stopping you.
BTW, That Inspiron is over twice the size of the Mini - miniaturization costs money.
The footprint is the same because it can stand on end.
And stop being racist about off-shore call centres, they speak English, often a lot better than the natives do.
And Dell's reliability isn't that poor, you really need to stop exaggerating. It's not as if Apple's products don't fail, you only need to look back at the major failures there have been.
In 2 or 3 days I'll have a new mini server with 2 drives and APPLE SOFTWARE!
Too expensive - ballderdash - and other, more appropriate, expletives
Wow that's pretty, but seems way over-priced for what you get. Only 2gb of RAM??
CNC machining dude, that is not cheap.. even on great numbers
It seems like Apple no long wants this to be an entry level product. The design, attention to detail and (likely) the engineering we'll see from the teardown will show this is now svelt premium product.
There is very little reason for them to use a milled block of aluminium for this machine type and to make it so small. It's more like a proof-of-concept than a machine you'd expect to see on the market.
It's not a bad premium either - it's only 28% more expensive than the original $499 Mac Mini when you take five years of inflation into account - even with the deflation included last years. It's around a total of 9% between 2005 and 2010.
But it is above that $500 barrier, and above the $600 barrier too. Could they have created a low-end variant to hit the $600 price point - slower CPU, no FW800, etc?
I believe that would be the green "power on" light. It is far too small to be an IR port, or even a paper clip hole--as some have suggested.
It's (the IR sensor) embedded in the drive bay, notice the gap to the right of the disc.
I believe that would be the green "power on" light. It is far too small to be an IR port, or even a paper clip hole--as some have suggested.
You're looking at the wrong place. It's that black hole on the right side of the disc that's actually not the hole, it's the IR receiver. So clever. Damn, 2 others beat me to it. Way too slow
It's not a bad premium either - it's only 28% more expensive than the original $499 Mac Mini when you take five years of inflation into account - even with the deflation included last years. It's around a total of 9% between 2005 and 2010.
But it is above that $500 barrier, and above the $600 barrier too. Could they have created a low-end variant to hit the $600 price point - slower CPU, no FW800, etc?
It's (the IR sensor) embedded in the drive bay, notice the gap to the right of the disc.
if you check PC prices than it's about the same. Expect to pay at least $650 for a PC with a graphics card not made by Intel that is close to what you get in the new Mini.
all the cheapo $500 PC's that everyone talks about all have Intel graphics
Smaller form factor + no external PSU. The box for this thing is barely gonna be bigger than the Mac Mini itself.
And the easier it is to hide within your luggage from a flight back from the US.
Didn't saw a post about the drives... but could be interesting to see if removing the super drive on the regular model will let you add the second drive... could be nice to have a second drive internally for bootcamp like you can do on a Mac Pro. I have other macs so I could share the super drive from one of those if needed or boot the mini as target and install anything I want that way..
What you think about that?
I recall reading that they use a special connector for the SuperDrive in the Mac Mini. I have no idea if that is correct or was ever correct, but OptiBay offers a solution for the older Mac Minis. I have to assume they will be getting this machine immediately and offer a solution on their site this week if it's a straight drop in.
I also agree that the new mini is a gorgeous looking chunk of aluminum, but I also share the concern that the price is a bit high. Except for the server version. These things'll make great little servers to rack mount or for a small business.
- Jasen.
Obviously, Apple thinks that the number of people wanting (and willing to pay for ) what you are requesting is not large enough to make it worthwhile. Until you can demonstrate that your abilities to succeed in this industry are greater than Apple's, JUST STOP THE WHINING.
You know, in numerous other threads we've been in complete agreement. But this is a sore point for me because, yes, I would personally like to upgrade my living room to Blu-ray at some point, and Apple has come so close to offering One Box To Rule Them All. I simply cannot stand having a table top full of remotes - that is a gigantic design failure on behalf of the CE industry. I dislike cable clutter as much as any purist Apple product designer. I want in integrated software interface that deals with all mainstream media types equally well.
What I don't agree with here is the post-facto rationalization that Apple has made the best product for this category. I'm an Apple user since 1984, and have owned probably three dozen Macs since then (including secondhand). But I don't think that every product decision from Apple has been a success. The Apple TV is one such example, and while it might be partially the problem of the studios who have completely screwed content licensing, there's no reason that Apple couldn't have offered a model with a BD option. There's the short-lived Apple HiFi (anyone remember that one?) There's the missed opportunity with NetFlix for Mac OS where Microsoft grabbed the ring instead with SilverLight. There's the fact that the iPhone remote app doesn't control Front Row, which seems like a pretty big oversight. There's Quicktime X putting the controls inside the window, obscuring the image you're trying to watch.
So no, I don't agree that Apple knows what they're doing in the living room, which is a huge shame because, again, they are so close! Meanwhile, the hated Microsoft, of all people, has probably sold more Xboxes and Media Servers (or whatever they're called) than Apple has sold Minis, Apple TVs, etc. combined. Do we really want to see Microsoft win the living room because of Apple's ideological hardware purity and botched efforts?
There's a lot to like from Apple. A tremendous amount, but I'm not in agreement that the new Mini is the best package that they could have offered, and certainly not for this price.
There's a lot of hand-wrining out ther about the price increase, and how the "entry-level" is now too high for many. I'm not so sure that market exists as it once did. Apple's moved beyond needing to have a low end hook to lure Windows users into their stores... Mac's pretty much sell themselves these days, and aren't the goofy one off laptop with the glowing logo in a sea of Dells... If you need proof of that go to any airport, library or coffee shop.
I don't think Apple sees this as the hook anymore... Rather it's now a niche machine (as it always was) for those who don't want a laptop and don't like the bulk of the iMac. This is a full featured Mac that is completely unobtrusive. Does it cost more than its PC Equivalent (if one existed)? Yep. Do MacBooks cost more than other laptops... Yep. Do Mac pro's cost more... You get the idea. People have been bitching about the cost of Apple's hardware since day one. Apple seems to be doing pretty well for themselves regardless of our thoughts. I for one think this thing is a damn engineering marvel like most of Apple's products these days. Looking at the old Mini I now use for a home server, it suddenly looks old and out of place in Apple's line up. Yesterday, I didn't give it a second thought. Still though, it's been the most rock solid little computer I've ever had, it's little G4 processor serving the needs of three daughters and now the entire family.
I like the new mini, price tag and all... Will I be getting one? Probably not anytime soon, but I'd certainly think no less anyone who did. And let's not miss the fact here that this is the first Mac with full HDMI output (although the last MacBook revision did kind of back it in of the DisplayPort). It's probably a safe bet to assume the next iMac refresh will include HDMI, and that the MacBook pros (space permitting) will most likely be sporting them soon, if not the enhanced DisplayPort of their lower priced cousin.
The AppleTV seems to have been removed from the online store and the main website!
No, AppleTV still available. Mac mini and AppleTV ... the misfit toys
iMac pages are not accessable either....something must be happening there.
Nope, apparently nothing changed.
Berating people is uncalled for. The point is that Apple has increased the price. Which is a step backwards.
Unless I am completely off base here, the price increase is more a function of our failing, devalued currency than proof of a vindictive Apple. Expect all future product intros to reflect the plummeting value of the dollar in the pricing.
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
I suspect this topic has been covered hundreds of times on this forum. The belief / hope/ bet (take your pick) by Steve Jobs is that now or in the near future HD movies will be so readily available to rent or buy over the net that no one would drive to a store to buy or rent a DVD of any size shape or color. I am not expressing my opinion one way or the other here, simply explaining Apple's reasoning for not including BR in any Macs. It's a brave man that bets against SJ's batting average in predicting obsolete hardware ahead of the also ran hardware manufacturers. This list is quite large of past, correct decisions.
Let me just say that the SD card slot on the back is nice, but inconvenient. My use case for SD cards is to pop them out of a camera, into a reader, import into iPhoto, pop out, put back in camera. Hiding the slot on the back side, possibly covered with cables, reduces its usefulness.
I also agree that the new mini is a gorgeous looking chunk of aluminum, but I also share the concern that the price is a bit high. Except for the server version. These things'll make great little servers to rack mount or for a small business.
- Jasen.
It's inconvenient if you have the Mini tucked away, but seriously, this isn't like reaching around the back of a Dell Optiplex sitting under your desk. If the Mini's sitting on the desk in front of you, the slot's pretty easy to access... Front or back. The SD slot is above all cable ports near it, so I don't think it will get too covered up. Is it a bit of form over function... yes, but what else is new?