Since you clearly live in your parents basement and have never actually worked for a corporation, let me 'splain something to you Lucy.
A job posting does not show up in a week. Assuming that some antenna engineer was immediately fired for an unclearly diagnosed symptom instead of being assigned to, oh say, FIX IT, the paperwork involved in just the HR gymnastics needed to post an opening would take weeks.
I work in a fortune 10 company, job postings can go out so fast it would make you head spin. Especially if the CEO said 'Do it now'. Geesh.
Out of curiosity what's the number of posts required before somebody has standing credibility at AI?
Fair enough! I hardly ever even notice a join date-- unless the poster appears to: have an agenda; be overly negative; is stirring the pot; is changing sides on an issue of contention; is not addressing reasonable questions asked of him; is making assertions with no valid citations or references...
At some point, I ask myself: "why is he here?".
I have been here a while, and am familiar with most of the authors and posters, including yourself. I believe that most come to the AI forums for reasonable discussion, enlightenment, and to express their opinions and facts as they see them. I enjoy the discussions, agree with some members on some issues and disagree on others. Sometimes I learn things that give me a different perspective or change my views.
When someone, unfamiliar, is generating a lot of flack (whether I agree with it or not), I try to determine why,
Then I look at the Flacker's stats... you'd be surprised how often a Flacker has joined AI within a few days of a major Apple occurrence: iPad announcement; iPhone announcement, Flash announcement.
When this happens, I try to point out the coincidence, that's all!
Based on what? Apple has one of the top management teams in the country and is achieving incredible results with modest R&D spending. Something like half of their revenue is from products that didn't even exist 5 years ago - yet they're doing that with R&D expenses that are not out of line with the rest of the industry. You don't achieve those results with a lousy work culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1
It implies there is an issue. That was my point !!! The other poster said Apple hasn't admitted there is an issue. Also, why are they suggesting to the customers to buy covers if that's an unproven fix, to an undiagnosed issue ?
It doesn't imply that the problem you're complaining about is real.
Everything I've seen says that:
1. There is a problem with the reported number of bars dropping if you hold your phone in some special way (which you probably wouldn't be able to do when making a call).
2. Apple says that this does not affect call quality - and Anand confirmed this.
3. Apple will have a software fix for the inaccurate bars - as reported by Mossberg.
So, Apple's statement that there's no reception problem but a fix will be out later for the bars problem is not inconsistent.
I've seen a lot of people claim that they can artificially induce the 'lower bars' issue. I haven't seen anything other than isolated anecdotal evidence that this affects call quality - so there may not be a reception problem.
Now, if you have real, valid, statistical evidence that the iPhone 4 drops calls more than previous phones under identical conditions, you might have a point. Until then, you're just spewing FUD.
There has always been chatter about the interference and bad reception caused by the internal antenna. Apple has gotten slammed for 'poor reception' for 3 years, and when they finally think outside the box (literally in this case) they get slammed for THAT.
Its a no-win, hence Jobs' reply.
My reception has improved markedly with this device, and yes, I've found occasional locations where the bars (NOT, btw necessarily actual signal strength) have reduced.
Big F-ing deal.
Again, the whiners = FAIL (to use their favorite cliche.)
I suppose because it sunny at your house, it must be sunny everywhere. LOL
2. Apple says that this does not affect call quality - and Anand confirmed this.
Nowhere does AnandTech's article says it does not affect call quality. In fact they show how the iPhone 4 is affected the most by signal attenuation. Not just a bar display issue.
And because it's raining at yours, it must be raining everywhere? Do positive reports not carry the same weight as negative ones in your estimation?
Nope, but I'm not calling the people that don't have problems names. I'm sure there are many people not having issues. And that's fine. You are the one complaining about the people that have issues.
Nope, but I'm not calling the people that don't have problems names. I'm sure there are many people not having issues. And that's fine. You are the one complaining about the people that have issues.
I'm not anymore. Read my earlier posts today. Just wanted to see if your metaphorical knife cut both ways. No judging.
It may be that your contact with Apple Support was early in the appearance of the "issue". Like most support people, Apple's technicians are trained to be wary and not overreact. They also have "policy" answers they are allowed to give out to unresolved issues.
It might be interesting to call Apple Support, again, now that the issue has gained a certain newsworthiness. Then, if you are not satisfied with the answer, escalate to the next level... and so on, up the chain of command. Log names, badge numbers, and responses at each step.
At some point, if you are still not satisfied with Apple Support, it may be worth a call to Public Relations in Cupertino. There you can explain the problem, the actions you've taken, and the reasons for your dissatisfaction. I would emphasize that the issue is important to you, beyond the iPhone, itself-- and that you think that the issue should be equally important to Apple
I suspect you will get the issue resolved.
However, resolution may be a refund/return for the iPhone.
.
I have done that to the degree that by this Tuesday the problem had been downgraded from significant to just hold it differently according to the same level 2 technician. Like he told me, a new replacement phone would exhibit the same behavior. The point here really is that on Friday he thought that it was a serious issue, serious enough to warrant the replacement of the phone and by Tuesday the issue isn't serious it's just the way the phone has been designed and to add insult to injury he won't even offer a free case when they know it helps to solve the problem. That's the real point here.
Mine is 88026. No issues to report. Any antenna signal attenuation is minimal as I haven't noticed any problems.
Mine is 84025. I received it on June 23.
I have a HUGE signal attenuation problem -- it disappears quickly and impressively (take the finger or palm off, and it comes back fully in about 30 seconds).
I have a HUGE signal attenuation problem -- it disappears quickly and impressively (take the finger or palm off, and it comes back fully in about 30 seconds).
Well I'd like to believe you but I have it on authority from jragosta that unless "you have real, valid, statistical evidence that the iPhone 4 drops calls more than previous phones under identical conditions, you might have a point. Until then, you're just spewing FUD."
MS has just pulled the plug on the Kin. Another iPhone killer has bit the dust. Oh, I know, the Kin was never considered an iPhone killer. Still, at the rate new Android phone models are being released, they'll have to kill older ones off pretty frequently or risk a bewildering number of choices for consumers. They're gonna run out of names. Samsung has three or four different names for the same phone depending upon who sells it. Sometimes, less is more.
Well I'd like to believe you but I have it on authority from jragosta that unless "you have real, valid, statistical evidence that the iPhone 4 drops calls more than previous phones under identical conditions, you might have a point. Until then, you're just spewing FUD."
In my experience, Apple won't publicly admit that a problem exists.
They also won't admit that they are working on a fix, because that in itself would be admitting that a problem existed.
I have experienced this numerous times with Apple products recently. The problem as a consumer is that it is difficult to judge whether you should hold on to the affected product, in the hope that Apple are secretly working on a fix, or should you return it for a refund?
Every Apple employee that you talk to will just clam-up and deny any knowledge of anybody else suffering the same problems. When you point out all the threads on responses on their own Discussion Forums, they tell you that the website has nothing to do with Apple Retail, and that they can't account for comments left by members of the public. It's very, very, frustrating. And it's beyond me how Apple's customer support ratings are so good?
I've had four different 30" Cinema Displays that either displayed dancing pixels or couldn't be driven via the MiniDP to DL DVI adapter, and four different 24" LED Displays with the colour temperature cycling problem. The 30" Cinema Displays were never fixed, and the 24" LED Displays were mysteriously fixed upon the next double-dot Software Update. Again Apple never admitted a problem. Funny how it was fixed upon the next Software Update though, right?
My iPad couldn't remember ANY of the WiFi passwords I typed in. Of course, Apple and the Fanboys would have you believe that that was a problem with each of the routers configurations, rather than the iPad. Of course ten different WiFi routers are wrong and the iPad is the only thing that's right. Funny how every other device seems to connect OK, including two MacBook Pros and two iPhones?
So back the iPad went, and PC World, who always put up one hell of a fight, took it back and offered a full refund without batting an eyelid. They simply added my iPad to the pile behind the counter. "That's most of them back now" said the sales assistant.
Unfortunately, lawsuits are a cost of doing business! Just as Apple has Engineers to design antennas, they have Lawyers to protect their interests... Let the lawyers earn their pay!
,
Yes but the customers are taking the hit. That's wrong, and simply on a PR level it's bad for Apple. The issues are too severe to play games with. Apple could have saved some face if it at least had offered to help those experiencing issues by offering them a free case to help reduce the problem. I'm sure SJ and his lawyers understand that but they're taking the harder approach. They are betraying their customers, period. This is the first time I personally have experienced bad customer service from Apple all the other times they were all too happy to help.
I have done that to the degree that by this Tuesday the problem had been downgraded from significant to just hold it differently according to the same level 2 technician. Like he told me, a new replacement phone would exhibit the same behavior. The point here really is that on Friday he thought that it was a serious issue, serious enough to warrant the replacement of the phone and by Tuesday the issue isn't serious it's just the way the phone has been designed and to add insult to injury he won't even offer a free case when they know it helps to solve the problem. That's the real point here.
I will be calling them back to take this further.
Good! I wish you satisfaction!
If you go through PR, be sure to get a name and an 800 callback number-- if you get switched to Apple Support. The initial PR call is not toll free-- intentionally!
If what you want is a free case, that could be easy or difficult... depending. I suspect the cost of the case is not the issue with you-- rather it is the principal! The same goes for Apple!
I suspect if Apple could resolve the issue with a "free case with every iPhone"-- they would do it, boom... and it would add a buck to their cost of the iPhone 4. 2.5 million phones, so far == $2.5 million... a pittance-- Apple couldn't address the issue with $5 million worth of advertising.
The problem is that the case is a band-aid-- it doesn't fix the issue, it just mitigates it.
I can hear it all now: But I wanted a $50 case; Why do I have to accept that case-- give me a credit, so I can buy what I want; I wanted one with an external battery; Apple didn't fix the problem-- they just provided a iPhone condom (band-aid)... the beat goes on (and on, and on...).
I do hope you get satisfaction! Barring that, I hope you get to where you accept the results. At some point in time, there are bigger windmills that need our attention!
I am not experiencing the problem-- if I were, I'd be pissed! But, hey, $30 isn't sacrificing my principles-- it's just that there are better things to do with my time*...
... I am reminded of my old T-Mobile Nokia, where I had to go n (I forget) menu levels deep to send a text (or do damn near anything)... Never could figure out that phone.
* I am trying to get an app ready for the app store and I spent all day on this thread! Duh!
It implies there is an issue. That was my point !!! The other poster said Apple hasn't admitted there is an issue. Also, why are they suggesting to the customers to buy covers if that's an unproven fix, to an undiagnosed issue ?
I am usually not a grammar snob... but I gotta' say:
You do not know what the article implies!
You infer that there is in issue based on how you interpret what is in the article!
Comments
Since you clearly live in your parents basement and have never actually worked for a corporation, let me 'splain something to you Lucy.
A job posting does not show up in a week. Assuming that some antenna engineer was immediately fired for an unclearly diagnosed symptom instead of being assigned to, oh say, FIX IT, the paperwork involved in just the HR gymnastics needed to post an opening would take weeks.
I work in a fortune 10 company, job postings can go out so fast it would make you head spin. Especially if the CEO said 'Do it now'. Geesh.
Out of curiosity what's the number of posts required before somebody has standing credibility at AI?
Fair enough! I hardly ever even notice a join date-- unless the poster appears to: have an agenda; be overly negative; is stirring the pot; is changing sides on an issue of contention; is not addressing reasonable questions asked of him; is making assertions with no valid citations or references...
At some point, I ask myself: "why is he here?".
I have been here a while, and am familiar with most of the authors and posters, including yourself. I believe that most come to the AI forums for reasonable discussion, enlightenment, and to express their opinions and facts as they see them. I enjoy the discussions, agree with some members on some issues and disagree on others. Sometimes I learn things that give me a different perspective or change my views.
When someone, unfamiliar, is generating a lot of flack (whether I agree with it or not), I try to determine why,
Then I look at the Flacker's stats... you'd be surprised how often a Flacker has joined AI within a few days of a major Apple occurrence: iPad announcement; iPhone announcement, Flash announcement.
When this happens, I try to point out the coincidence, that's all!
.
work culture at Apple is very unattractive.
Based on what? Apple has one of the top management teams in the country and is achieving incredible results with modest R&D spending. Something like half of their revenue is from products that didn't even exist 5 years ago - yet they're doing that with R&D expenses that are not out of line with the rest of the industry. You don't achieve those results with a lousy work culture.
It implies there is an issue. That was my point !!! The other poster said Apple hasn't admitted there is an issue. Also, why are they suggesting to the customers to buy covers if that's an unproven fix, to an undiagnosed issue ?
It doesn't imply that the problem you're complaining about is real.
Everything I've seen says that:
1. There is a problem with the reported number of bars dropping if you hold your phone in some special way (which you probably wouldn't be able to do when making a call).
2. Apple says that this does not affect call quality - and Anand confirmed this.
3. Apple will have a software fix for the inaccurate bars - as reported by Mossberg.
So, Apple's statement that there's no reception problem but a fix will be out later for the bars problem is not inconsistent.
I've seen a lot of people claim that they can artificially induce the 'lower bars' issue. I haven't seen anything other than isolated anecdotal evidence that this affects call quality - so there may not be a reception problem.
Now, if you have real, valid, statistical evidence that the iPhone 4 drops calls more than previous phones under identical conditions, you might have a point. Until then, you're just spewing FUD.
There has always been chatter about the interference and bad reception caused by the internal antenna. Apple has gotten slammed for 'poor reception' for 3 years, and when they finally think outside the box (literally in this case) they get slammed for THAT.
Its a no-win, hence Jobs' reply.
My reception has improved markedly with this device, and yes, I've found occasional locations where the bars (NOT, btw necessarily actual signal strength) have reduced.
Big F-ing deal.
Again, the whiners = FAIL (to use their favorite cliche.)
I suppose because it sunny at your house, it must be sunny everywhere. LOL
I suppose because it sunny at your house, it must be sunny everywhere. LOL
And because it's raining at yours, it must be raining everywhere? Do positive reports not carry the same weight as negative ones in your estimation?
2. Apple says that this does not affect call quality - and Anand confirmed this.
Nowhere does AnandTech's article says it does not affect call quality. In fact they show how the iPhone 4 is affected the most by signal attenuation. Not just a bar display issue.
And because it's raining at yours, it must be raining everywhere? Do positive reports not carry the same weight as negative ones in your estimation?
Nope, but I'm not calling the people that don't have problems names. I'm sure there are many people not having issues. And that's fine. You are the one complaining about the people that have issues.
Nope, but I'm not calling the people that don't have problems names. I'm sure there are many people not having issues. And that's fine. You are the one complaining about the people that have issues.
I'm not anymore. Read my earlier posts today. Just wanted to see if your metaphorical knife cut both ways. No judging.
I'm not anymore. Read my earlier posts today. Just wanted to see if your metaphorical knife cut both ways. No judging.
Oops, sorry, I thought I was responding to a "GQB" post. LOL
It may be that your contact with Apple Support was early in the appearance of the "issue". Like most support people, Apple's technicians are trained to be wary and not overreact. They also have "policy" answers they are allowed to give out to unresolved issues.
It might be interesting to call Apple Support, again, now that the issue has gained a certain newsworthiness. Then, if you are not satisfied with the answer, escalate to the next level... and so on, up the chain of command. Log names, badge numbers, and responses at each step.
At some point, if you are still not satisfied with Apple Support, it may be worth a call to Public Relations in Cupertino. There you can explain the problem, the actions you've taken, and the reasons for your dissatisfaction. I would emphasize that the issue is important to you, beyond the iPhone, itself-- and that you think that the issue should be equally important to Apple
I suspect you will get the issue resolved.
However, resolution may be a refund/return for the iPhone.
.
I have done that to the degree that by this Tuesday the problem had been downgraded from significant to just hold it differently according to the same level 2 technician. Like he told me, a new replacement phone would exhibit the same behavior. The point here really is that on Friday he thought that it was a serious issue, serious enough to warrant the replacement of the phone and by Tuesday the issue isn't serious it's just the way the phone has been designed and to add insult to injury he won't even offer a free case when they know it helps to solve the problem. That's the real point here.
I will be calling them back to take this further.
Mine is 88026. No issues to report. Any antenna signal attenuation is minimal as I haven't noticed any problems.
Mine is 84025. I received it on June 23.
I have a HUGE signal attenuation problem -- it disappears quickly and impressively (take the finger or palm off, and it comes back fully in about 30 seconds).
Until then, I'm just spewing FUD.
ftfy.
Mine is 84025. I received it on June 23.
I have a HUGE signal attenuation problem -- it disappears quickly and impressively (take the finger or palm off, and it comes back fully in about 30 seconds).
Well I'd like to believe you but I have it on authority from jragosta that unless "you have real, valid, statistical evidence that the iPhone 4 drops calls more than previous phones under identical conditions, you might have a point. Until then, you're just spewing FUD."
MS has just pulled the plug on the Kin. Another iPhone killer has bit the dust. Oh, I know, the Kin was never considered an iPhone killer. Still, at the rate new Android phone models are being released, they'll have to kill older ones off pretty frequently or risk a bewildering number of choices for consumers. They're gonna run out of names. Samsung has three or four different names for the same phone depending upon who sells it. Sometimes, less is more.
And yes, I know the Kin was not an Android phone.
Well I'd like to believe you but I have it on authority from jragosta that unless "you have real, valid, statistical evidence that the iPhone 4 drops calls more than previous phones under identical conditions, you might have a point. Until then, you're just spewing FUD."
Nah, he'll agree with me.
He'd better.
They also won't admit that they are working on a fix, because that in itself would be admitting that a problem existed.
I have experienced this numerous times with Apple products recently. The problem as a consumer is that it is difficult to judge whether you should hold on to the affected product, in the hope that Apple are secretly working on a fix, or should you return it for a refund?
Every Apple employee that you talk to will just clam-up and deny any knowledge of anybody else suffering the same problems. When you point out all the threads on responses on their own Discussion Forums, they tell you that the website has nothing to do with Apple Retail, and that they can't account for comments left by members of the public. It's very, very, frustrating. And it's beyond me how Apple's customer support ratings are so good?
I've had four different 30" Cinema Displays that either displayed dancing pixels or couldn't be driven via the MiniDP to DL DVI adapter, and four different 24" LED Displays with the colour temperature cycling problem. The 30" Cinema Displays were never fixed, and the 24" LED Displays were mysteriously fixed upon the next double-dot Software Update. Again Apple never admitted a problem. Funny how it was fixed upon the next Software Update though, right?
My iPad couldn't remember ANY of the WiFi passwords I typed in. Of course, Apple and the Fanboys would have you believe that that was a problem with each of the routers configurations, rather than the iPad. Of course ten different WiFi routers are wrong and the iPad is the only thing that's right. Funny how every other device seems to connect OK, including two MacBook Pros and two iPhones?
So back the iPad went, and PC World, who always put up one hell of a fight, took it back and offered a full refund without batting an eyelid. They simply added my iPad to the pile behind the counter. "That's most of them back now" said the sales assistant.
Unfortunately, lawsuits are a cost of doing business! Just as Apple has Engineers to design antennas, they have Lawyers to protect their interests... Let the lawyers earn their pay!
,
Yes but the customers are taking the hit. That's wrong, and simply on a PR level it's bad for Apple. The issues are too severe to play games with. Apple could have saved some face if it at least had offered to help those experiencing issues by offering them a free case to help reduce the problem. I'm sure SJ and his lawyers understand that but they're taking the harder approach. They are betraying their customers, period. This is the first time I personally have experienced bad customer service from Apple all the other times they were all too happy to help.
I have done that to the degree that by this Tuesday the problem had been downgraded from significant to just hold it differently according to the same level 2 technician. Like he told me, a new replacement phone would exhibit the same behavior. The point here really is that on Friday he thought that it was a serious issue, serious enough to warrant the replacement of the phone and by Tuesday the issue isn't serious it's just the way the phone has been designed and to add insult to injury he won't even offer a free case when they know it helps to solve the problem. That's the real point here.
I will be calling them back to take this further.
Good! I wish you satisfaction!
If you go through PR, be sure to get a name and an 800 callback number-- if you get switched to Apple Support. The initial PR call is not toll free-- intentionally!
If what you want is a free case, that could be easy or difficult... depending. I suspect the cost of the case is not the issue with you-- rather it is the principal! The same goes for Apple!
I suspect if Apple could resolve the issue with a "free case with every iPhone"-- they would do it, boom... and it would add a buck to their cost of the iPhone 4. 2.5 million phones, so far == $2.5 million... a pittance-- Apple couldn't address the issue with $5 million worth of advertising.
The problem is that the case is a band-aid-- it doesn't fix the issue, it just mitigates it.
I can hear it all now: But I wanted a $50 case; Why do I have to accept that case-- give me a credit, so I can buy what I want; I wanted one with an external battery; Apple didn't fix the problem-- they just provided a iPhone condom (band-aid)... the beat goes on (and on, and on...).
I do hope you get satisfaction! Barring that, I hope you get to where you accept the results. At some point in time, there are bigger windmills that need our attention!
I am not experiencing the problem-- if I were, I'd be pissed! But, hey, $30 isn't sacrificing my principles-- it's just that there are better things to do with my time*...
... I am reminded of my old T-Mobile Nokia, where I had to go n (I forget) menu levels deep to send a text (or do damn near anything)... Never could figure out that phone.
* I am trying to get an app ready for the app store and I spent all day on this thread! Duh!
Peace!
.
Or did everyone forget the signal strength bit when the 3G first rolled out?
It implies there is an issue. That was my point !!! The other poster said Apple hasn't admitted there is an issue. Also, why are they suggesting to the customers to buy covers if that's an unproven fix, to an undiagnosed issue ?
I am usually not a grammar snob... but I gotta' say:
You do not know what the article implies!
You infer that there is in issue based on how you interpret what is in the article!
Here's a test for you:
Nina Simone is not a Caucasian!
What do I imply?
What do you infer?
... sorry to be so pedantic!
.