Some threads have imploded so badly they read like the minutes of a tea-bagger meeting.
Amen brother. The internet has unfortunately given voice to crazy people the world over. Traditionally they had no voice in our society and we were all better off for that.
The problems Steve Jobs had during keynote are due to the same design issue? He was cupping the phone, if you watch carefully.
The press have really not payed attention to this and instead only choose to point out the wifi problems. The wifi it seems failed and because of that it switched to it's cellular data. Apple though must have some how restricted that, probably to hide the signal loss as SJ was holding the phone, as even though it showed full bars of coverage the network wouldn't allow any downloading. The signal blue box popped up displaying- "Could not acivate cellular data network." which should only come up if ATT had restricted it's use. They must have wanted to make sure nobody would see the bars drop, but didn't count on the wifi failing and then it switching over to cellular data.
If anyone has another reason why Apple wouldn't have access to ATT's network on that iPhone 4 I'd be interested to hear it beacuse it looks very suspicious given the now widespread antenna issues.
That's not true - unless you have some really bizarre anatomy. If you hold the phone cupped in your palm as people are suggesting, it's nearly impossible to hold it to your ear. You can do so, but your arm is twisted across the middle of your chest.
I don't know where you got the idea that unnaturally cupping the phone was necessary to kill iPhone 4 reception, unless you're just projecting your experience with other cell phones onto the iPhone 4. All one needs to do with the iPhone 4 is bridge the antenna gap in the lower left corner, as happens naturally both while using apps and holding it to the ear to talk.
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The most natural way to hold it (and the way almost everyone I've seen holds their phone) is between the thumb and fingers-which does not cause any problems.
Sometimes that's the most natural way, but most of the time I find it more natural and relaxing to rest the lower left corner of the phone on the base of my left thumb, which bridges the antenna gap. I expect there are many people (even a vast majority) who find this the most natural and relaxing way to hold the iPhone 4, too.
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There are pleny of examples of phone companies explaining that the signal drops if you put your hand near the bottom.
You're absolutely correct. The issue here is the degree of the signal drop and the effort required to induce the drop. Merely by touching the little antenna gap, the iPhone 4 goes from being perhaps the best communicator ever to being one of the worst.
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Since you can't even get the most basic facts right, why should anyone believe anything you say?
Until you can demonstrate an understanding of the relevant issues, why don't you take a break?
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Then exchange your phone. Or you can take your phone back for a refund.
Or demand a free bumper from the company that prides itself on quality products and service.
The press have really not payed attention to this and instead only choose to point out the wifi problems.
You seem to be reading old news reports. As you know, wi-fi issues arose during Jobs' keynote. Wi-fi is faster than 3G cellular and FaceTime only works over wi-fi, so that's the technology Jobs wished to use during his keynote. The issue at that time, which was widely reported, was interference from hundreds of distinct wi-fi networks that were being operated in his vicinity.
The present issue is entirely different and only involves cellular voice and data services (at least so far as anyone has reported). This issue was not discovered until the iPhone 4 reached the hands of reviewers (like Walt Mossberg) and consumers. It was not reported in the press until the embargo on reporting was lifted on roughly June 23rd.
You seem to be reading old news reports. As you know, wi-fi issues arose during Jobs' keynote. Wi-fi is faster than 3G cellular and FaceTime only works over wi-fi, so that's the technology Jobs wished to use during his keynote. The issue at that time, which was widely reported, was interference from hundreds of distinct wi-fi networks that were being operated in his vicinity.
The present issue is entirely different and only involves cellular voice and data services (at least so far as anyone has reported). This issue was not discovered until the iPhone 4 reached the hands of reviewers (like Walt Mossberg) and consumers. It was not reported in the press until the embargo on reporting was lifted on roughly June 23rd.
Yes, I understand why it was appropriate to use wifi it's why that "Could not activate cellular data" popped up that's got me curious. Obviously it switched to it to when the wifi failed, but why would that in particular pop up?
I agree with you too that at the time it wouldn't have rung bells, but now it would at least be nice to know what was really going on.
Yes, I understand why it was appropriate to use wifi it's why that "Could not activate cellular data" popped up that's got me curious. Obviously it switched to it to when the wifi failed, but why would that in particular pop up?
Just a guess, but perhaps the iPhones Jobs used hadn't been activated in the normal manner for the cellular network. They might have been specially activated only for voice service (even though Jobs never even tried to demo cellular voice service) in order to force use of wi-fi. I'm not sure why the pop-up is relevant, unless you're suggesting the activation failed because Jobs was holding the bare iPhone 4 in a "death grip".
Just a guess, but perhaps the iPhones Jobs used had not been activated in the normal manner for the cellular network. I'm not sure why the pop-up is relevant, unless you're suggesting the activation failed because Jobs was holding the bare iPhone 4 in a "death grip". ;-)
If it had been activated in the normal manner people might have seen the bars drop. It may be that when a phone isn't activated it still shows ATT and the signal, I'm not sure. Doesn't face time too need a network connection too to first activate?
I'm not trying to suggest the activation failed because of the way he was holding it, no.
If it had been activated in the normal manner people might have seen the bars drop. It may be that when a phone isn't activated it still shows ATT and the signal, I'm not sure. Doesn't face time too need a network connection too to first activate?
The talk is there has to be one cellular connection made from the iPhone 4 before FaceTime can work. The theory is it sends some data over the carrier line (maybe a hidden SMS) to a FaceTime server. After that, you can initialize FaceTime directly from your contacts or Safari*.
* If you have excluded FaceTime or SMS in Parental Controls or Config. Profiles you can't bypass this lock by using Safari.
Just a guess, but perhaps the iPhones Jobs used hadn't been activated in the normal manner for the cellular network. They might have been specially activated only for voice service (even though Jobs never even tried to demo cellular voice service) in order to force use of wi-fi. I'm not sure why the pop-up is relevant, unless you're suggesting the activation failed because Jobs was holding the bare iPhone 4 in a "death grip".
Maybe voice only and maybe to force wifi only, but I've never had wifi switch to cellular unless I've got a very low wifi signal which he shouldn't have had, at least that I've ever been aware of.
Whoever called this article our for being bias was right on the money...
When I hold the phone in my left hand, resting it in my palm, and holding the edges with my fingers (which I just assumed was the natural way every person out there held a cell phone) my calls drop and I get no internet. I did speed tests and call tests. Tangible and finite results that the true problem is the "grounding of the antenna by touching the left and bottom-left metal rim" which is the exact phrase an Apple employee used to describe my problem...
Holding the phone in a special way is how you get the thing to work... not the other way around... it's not the other way around.
You're wasting your time. Any kind of logic left this forum weeks ago. It's like trying to make a point while surround by a thousand vuvuzelas.
The talk is there has to be one cellular connection made from the iPhone 4 before FaceTime can work. The theory is it sends some data over the carrier line (maybe a hidden SMS) to a FaceTime server. After that, you can initialize FaceTime directly from your contacts or Safari*.
* If you have excluded FaceTime or SMS in Parental Controls or Config. Profiles you can't bypass this lock by using Safari.
Yes, I've read that too. So why did Apple not activate it's cellular data on that ip4 and is it normal to still show ATT and bars when the phones displaying that message?
If it had been activated in the normal manner people might have seen the bars drop.
The video could be examined for signs of this. That could be an interesting find. But keep in mind that the keynote was held in a location that might have had a strong cellular signal. Evidence suggests the "death grip" doesn't kill reception when the signal is strong.
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Doesn't face time too need a network connection too to first activate?
Yes, a cellular voice call is required the first time FaceTime is used to connect two users. The keynote iPhones might have been specially configured to do just about anything, though.
Maybe voice only and maybe to force wifi only, but I've never had wifi switch to cellular unless I've got a very low wifi signal which he shouldn't have had, at least that I've ever been aware of.
I'm not sure anybody has much knowledge of how wi-fi devices behave in the presence of over 500 distinct wi-fi networks and thousands of wi-fi devices such as laptops and smart phones.
Heck, the iPhone has "wrong ways" to hold it since the beginning (I don't think any Apple iPhone app will orient with the Home Button to the top) and with the iPad they even inform you, by law, how you should hold the device to prevent RF interference and exposure. Good marketing and reality are never fully in sync, nor should they be.
What? No wants to hold their iPhones upside-down. They want to hold their iPhone in a phone-like-manner. They can't. Well some can, but other's can't. Depends on location. Yeah, it's complex.
Best avoid. Or use it with a case, but you'll have to want to, 'cause you can't without it. Well some can. Yeah I know, it's complex.
The video could be examined for signs of this. That could be an interesting find. But keep in mind that the keynote was held in a location that might have had a strong cellular signal. Evidence suggests the "death grip" doesn't kill reception when the signal is strong.
Yes, a cellular voice call is required the first time FaceTime is used to connect two users. The keynote iPhones might have been specially configured to do just about anything, though.
It would be interesting to find out if the keynote was done in a location with super strong 3G coverage or just ordinary 3G coverage, whether Apple had full control over how strong the signal would be their from by using signal boosters etc.
It certainly would be interesting to see if the signal changed at all during the keynote, though I'd be surprised if they'd let that happen even if it wasn't an unfair signal drop, like we're seeing now.
I'm not sure anybody has much knowledge of how wi-fi devices behave in the presence of over 500 distinct wi-fi networks and thousands of wi-fi devices such as laptops and smart phones.
Yes, I can well believe that that caused problems and deactivating the cellular data connection may have helped the issue somehow, but I fail to see why.
Comments
Some threads have imploded so badly they read like the minutes of a tea-bagger meeting.
Amen brother. The internet has unfortunately given voice to crazy people the world over. Traditionally they had no voice in our society and we were all better off for that.
The problems Steve Jobs had during keynote are due to the same design issue? He was cupping the phone, if you watch carefully.
The press have really not payed attention to this and instead only choose to point out the wifi problems. The wifi it seems failed and because of that it switched to it's cellular data. Apple though must have some how restricted that, probably to hide the signal loss as SJ was holding the phone, as even though it showed full bars of coverage the network wouldn't allow any downloading. The signal blue box popped up displaying- "Could not acivate cellular data network." which should only come up if ATT had restricted it's use. They must have wanted to make sure nobody would see the bars drop, but didn't count on the wifi failing and then it switching over to cellular data.
Here's a video of SJ using the iPhone 4 shot by someone in the audience, the message pops up at 26 seconds- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxZZa...eature=related
If anyone has another reason why Apple wouldn't have access to ATT's network on that iPhone 4 I'd be interested to hear it beacuse it looks very suspicious given the now widespread antenna issues.
That's not true - unless you have some really bizarre anatomy. If you hold the phone cupped in your palm as people are suggesting, it's nearly impossible to hold it to your ear. You can do so, but your arm is twisted across the middle of your chest.
I don't know where you got the idea that unnaturally cupping the phone was necessary to kill iPhone 4 reception, unless you're just projecting your experience with other cell phones onto the iPhone 4. All one needs to do with the iPhone 4 is bridge the antenna gap in the lower left corner, as happens naturally both while using apps and holding it to the ear to talk.
The most natural way to hold it (and the way almost everyone I've seen holds their phone) is between the thumb and fingers-which does not cause any problems.
Sometimes that's the most natural way, but most of the time I find it more natural and relaxing to rest the lower left corner of the phone on the base of my left thumb, which bridges the antenna gap. I expect there are many people (even a vast majority) who find this the most natural and relaxing way to hold the iPhone 4, too.
There are pleny of examples of phone companies explaining that the signal drops if you put your hand near the bottom.
You're absolutely correct. The issue here is the degree of the signal drop and the effort required to induce the drop. Merely by touching the little antenna gap, the iPhone 4 goes from being perhaps the best communicator ever to being one of the worst.
Since you can't even get the most basic facts right, why should anyone believe anything you say?
Until you can demonstrate an understanding of the relevant issues, why don't you take a break?
Then exchange your phone. Or you can take your phone back for a refund.
Or demand a free bumper from the company that prides itself on quality products and service.
The press have really not payed attention to this and instead only choose to point out the wifi problems.
You seem to be reading old news reports. As you know, wi-fi issues arose during Jobs' keynote. Wi-fi is faster than 3G cellular and FaceTime only works over wi-fi, so that's the technology Jobs wished to use during his keynote. The issue at that time, which was widely reported, was interference from hundreds of distinct wi-fi networks that were being operated in his vicinity.
The present issue is entirely different and only involves cellular voice and data services (at least so far as anyone has reported). This issue was not discovered until the iPhone 4 reached the hands of reviewers (like Walt Mossberg) and consumers. It was not reported in the press until the embargo on reporting was lifted on roughly June 23rd.
Are reporters really so ignorant of the English language, logic, and market-speak that they will merely echo Apple's statements without question?
You seem to be reading old news reports. As you know, wi-fi issues arose during Jobs' keynote. Wi-fi is faster than 3G cellular and FaceTime only works over wi-fi, so that's the technology Jobs wished to use during his keynote. The issue at that time, which was widely reported, was interference from hundreds of distinct wi-fi networks that were being operated in his vicinity.
The present issue is entirely different and only involves cellular voice and data services (at least so far as anyone has reported). This issue was not discovered until the iPhone 4 reached the hands of reviewers (like Walt Mossberg) and consumers. It was not reported in the press until the embargo on reporting was lifted on roughly June 23rd.
Yes, I understand why it was appropriate to use wifi it's why that "Could not activate cellular data" popped up that's got me curious. Obviously it switched to it to when the wifi failed, but why would that in particular pop up?
I agree with you too that at the time it wouldn't have rung bells, but now it would at least be nice to know what was really going on.
I downloaded a signal testing app last night that does this on the iPhone, which kind of took me by surprise.
I guess with the blending of 3.2 with 4.0 and iPad with iPhone that we will see more of that kind of thing.
There are plenty of 3rd-Party App Store apps that do this, it's up to the developer, it's Apple's native apps and likely App Store apps that don't.
Yes, I understand why it was appropriate to use wifi it's why that "Could not activate cellular data" popped up that's got me curious. Obviously it switched to it to when the wifi failed, but why would that in particular pop up?
Just a guess, but perhaps the iPhones Jobs used hadn't been activated in the normal manner for the cellular network. They might have been specially activated only for voice service (even though Jobs never even tried to demo cellular voice service) in order to force use of wi-fi. I'm not sure why the pop-up is relevant, unless you're suggesting the activation failed because Jobs was holding the bare iPhone 4 in a "death grip".
Just a guess, but perhaps the iPhones Jobs used had not been activated in the normal manner for the cellular network. I'm not sure why the pop-up is relevant, unless you're suggesting the activation failed because Jobs was holding the bare iPhone 4 in a "death grip". ;-)
If it had been activated in the normal manner people might have seen the bars drop. It may be that when a phone isn't activated it still shows ATT and the signal, I'm not sure. Doesn't face time too need a network connection too to first activate?
I'm not trying to suggest the activation failed because of the way he was holding it, no.
If it had been activated in the normal manner people might have seen the bars drop. It may be that when a phone isn't activated it still shows ATT and the signal, I'm not sure. Doesn't face time too need a network connection too to first activate?
The talk is there has to be one cellular connection made from the iPhone 4 before FaceTime can work. The theory is it sends some data over the carrier line (maybe a hidden SMS) to a FaceTime server. After that, you can initialize FaceTime directly from your contacts or Safari*.
* If you have excluded FaceTime or SMS in Parental Controls or Config. Profiles you can't bypass this lock by using Safari.
Just a guess, but perhaps the iPhones Jobs used hadn't been activated in the normal manner for the cellular network. They might have been specially activated only for voice service (even though Jobs never even tried to demo cellular voice service) in order to force use of wi-fi. I'm not sure why the pop-up is relevant, unless you're suggesting the activation failed because Jobs was holding the bare iPhone 4 in a "death grip".
Maybe voice only and maybe to force wifi only, but I've never had wifi switch to cellular unless I've got a very low wifi signal which he shouldn't have had, at least that I've ever been aware of.
Whoever called this article our for being bias was right on the money...
When I hold the phone in my left hand, resting it in my palm, and holding the edges with my fingers (which I just assumed was the natural way every person out there held a cell phone) my calls drop and I get no internet. I did speed tests and call tests. Tangible and finite results that the true problem is the "grounding of the antenna by touching the left and bottom-left metal rim" which is the exact phrase an Apple employee used to describe my problem...
Holding the phone in a special way is how you get the thing to work... not the other way around... it's not the other way around.
You're wasting your time. Any kind of logic left this forum weeks ago. It's like trying to make a point while surround by a thousand vuvuzelas.
The talk is there has to be one cellular connection made from the iPhone 4 before FaceTime can work. The theory is it sends some data over the carrier line (maybe a hidden SMS) to a FaceTime server. After that, you can initialize FaceTime directly from your contacts or Safari*.
* If you have excluded FaceTime or SMS in Parental Controls or Config. Profiles you can't bypass this lock by using Safari.
Yes, I've read that too. So why did Apple not activate it's cellular data on that ip4 and is it normal to still show ATT and bars when the phones displaying that message?
If it had been activated in the normal manner people might have seen the bars drop.
The video could be examined for signs of this. That could be an interesting find. But keep in mind that the keynote was held in a location that might have had a strong cellular signal. Evidence suggests the "death grip" doesn't kill reception when the signal is strong.
Doesn't face time too need a network connection too to first activate?
Yes, a cellular voice call is required the first time FaceTime is used to connect two users. The keynote iPhones might have been specially configured to do just about anything, though.
Maybe voice only and maybe to force wifi only, but I've never had wifi switch to cellular unless I've got a very low wifi signal which he shouldn't have had, at least that I've ever been aware of.
I'm not sure anybody has much knowledge of how wi-fi devices behave in the presence of over 500 distinct wi-fi networks and thousands of wi-fi devices such as laptops and smart phones.
Heck, the iPhone has "wrong ways" to hold it since the beginning (I don't think any Apple iPhone app will orient with the Home Button to the top) and with the iPad they even inform you, by law, how you should hold the device to prevent RF interference and exposure. Good marketing and reality are never fully in sync, nor should they be.
What? No wants to hold their iPhones upside-down. They want to hold their iPhone in a phone-like-manner. They can't. Well some can, but other's can't. Depends on location. Yeah, it's complex.
Best avoid. Or use it with a case, but you'll have to want to, 'cause you can't without it. Well some can. Yeah I know, it's complex.
Awful antenna design.
The video could be examined for signs of this. That could be an interesting find. But keep in mind that the keynote was held in a location that might have had a strong cellular signal. Evidence suggests the "death grip" doesn't kill reception when the signal is strong.
Yes, a cellular voice call is required the first time FaceTime is used to connect two users. The keynote iPhones might have been specially configured to do just about anything, though.
It would be interesting to find out if the keynote was done in a location with super strong 3G coverage or just ordinary 3G coverage, whether Apple had full control over how strong the signal would be their from by using signal boosters etc.
It certainly would be interesting to see if the signal changed at all during the keynote, though I'd be surprised if they'd let that happen even if it wasn't an unfair signal drop, like we're seeing now.
Apple's explanation yesterday made it clear this is not an antenna issue - it is an AT&T issue.
What Apple made clear yesterday is they are not admitting an antenna design flaw.
I'm not sure anybody has much knowledge of how wi-fi devices behave in the presence of over 500 distinct wi-fi networks and thousands of wi-fi devices such as laptops and smart phones.
Yes, I can well believe that that caused problems and deactivating the cellular data connection may have helped the issue somehow, but I fail to see why.
How the heck does a case compensate for an allegedly weak ATT signal?
It doesn't. It compensates for a poorly thought through antenna design.