There is almost no one suffering. They THINK they are because all of these sites and 'news' sites are saying oh there is this huge issue lets sue APPLE!!!! And they think well I must be having the issue. Then they convince themselves they ARE having the issue. It is funny because I got my phone a day early and I actually get an added bar if I touch all 3 pieces... There is no Scandal. There is no shocking news.. It is all blown out of proportion. What should be blown up is how open the Droid marketplace is and how much information the apps on the marketplace can take from its users like malware.
Sheeshopete
@Hands Sandon has demonstrated that he has a valid issue and he has discussed this rationally in at least 2 other AI threads.
What I don't understand is why @Hands Sandon feels he needs to come on so strong at the beginning of a new thread... seems counter productive!
Like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon
-Tired lies for money on the backs of iPhone 4 purchasers-
There are going to be a lot of people who suffer serious problems who won't trust Apple or reviewers ever again. This goes well beyond a slight problem, it's a huge problem with no case and will still be a problem with a case. It's great that the antenna works better than it did when it's not held as 95%, at least, of people will, but it's shocking how bad it is when you hold it normally. It's scandalous that reviewers and Apple are saying you have to squeeze it tight to experience any kind of serious signal loss, that isn't the case at all.
@Hands Sandon has demonstrated that he has a valid issue and he has discussed this rationally in at least 2 other AI threads.
What I don't understand is why @Hands Sandon feels he needs to come on so strong at the beginning of a new thread... seems counter productive!
Like this:
.
I stand by what you quoted completely. That letter to ip4 owners makes it sound like there's barely a problem and you'll only experience it enough to have any problems if you squeeze the phone tightly, which for hundreds of thousands of people, and soon millions, is an insult because all we are doing is holding it the way we've been holding it before and that practically every picture that Apple have ever shown of people holding it, holding it.
How anyone can defend Apple's stance, even if they themselves aren't having issues makes ME stunned!
Consumer Reports added, "Apple's Steve Jobs helpfully reminds new iPhone buyers that 'you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.'"
And they forgot to mention that someone else would likely want to buy it off from you, since you're giving back such a rare piece of work
I stand by what you quoted completely. That letter to ip4 owners makes it sound like there's barely a problem and you'll only experience it enough to have any problems if you squeeze the phone tightly, which for hundreds of thousands of people, and soon millions, is an insult because all we are doing is holding it the way we've been holding it before and that practically every picture that Apple have ever shown of people holding it, holding it.
How anyone can defend Apple's stance, even if they themselves aren't having issues makes ME stunned!
I for one, am not defending Apple. I feel they made a design choice that impacts phone operation for some people. While that is true, there are actions that can be taken by YOU to get a functioning phone, and they have been well documented in this and other threads.
While righteous indignation may make you feel better, just because the phone does not operate in the manner to which you wished it did doesn't change anything. You still have a phone that does not work the way you want it to. It does work well for many many other people.
You can continue to rage at Apple/Steve Jobs, or you can get an Android phone, or you can get a case. Or you can take a chill pill and see how things shake out in the next week or two. Your choice.
After a week of mass hysteria, thanks to the work by Anandtech, Consumer Reports and others, the issue is finally getting a true, analytical vetting-and the conclusion is that iP4 is the best phone on the planet.
SJ was right, don't hold it that way, but even if you are a masochist and insist on deliberately trying to drop your call, you actually only loose one bar, unless of course you have bad signal to start off with.
For the Android lovers, you day of reckoning is coming in 2 weeks. Your new Android XYZ will also get the same vetting, and guess what, your precious phone will loose bars just like any other phone. The only bad thing is that no one is going to carry the story because no one wants one and no one cares. How many people are going to stand in line all night for this phone? How much phone do you think it will sell in 3 days? When the Android XYZ goes on sale, it will be a nonevent.
So you Trolls, go back to your cave before you get hurt. The night is lifting and the sun is coming out. But if you insist on coming back, come back on Android XYZ launch day. As they say, turnabout it fair play. Should be fun...
I had an iPhone 4 ordered from Apple that would have been here next week. But I could not bring myself to sign another 2 years with AT&T. Is the iPhone a better device? Yes. There is no better device on the market right now. But being back on Verizon makes me realize how much I have missed for the last 3 years with the iPhone (and yes, I was an original owner in 2007). I can actually make and receive phone calls, texts, and use the Internet consistently and reliably. So I will see you in 2 years when the exclusivity contract is up with AT&T.
IPHONE 4 is a marvelous piece of technology. Unfortunately, due to ATT not providing enough towers what would be a 3 bar signal on Verizon is a 1 bar signal on ATT or even a dropped call. So the choice comes down to..........Keep the IPHONE4 for it being such a state of the art device or return it for the mediocre phone service.
You could rotate the phone so you are now holding it by the top right corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Me too. It is an issue.
However, I have learned to just readjust my grip, the bars come back, and I am fine with that. It's a great product overall, so this is an inconvenience that I plan to live with (I hate the bumpers).
The real problem I have is when I am 3G-only, and I am web surfing, with the handset cupped in my left hand...... still woking on the appropriate grip for that one...... \
Yeah, it's a lie actually. Keep in mind Daniel Eran is an Apple Shareholder. This seems to effect the stories he writes, and how he writes them.
What is interesting are people like Spam Sandwich: who is an Apple shareholder and can also asses things like this, honestly. He isn't afraid to call Apple out and say it as it is. We love him for that. He's not full of crap like some people.
Please keep your comments on topic and articulate ideas effectively rather than relying on unsubstantiated character attacks.
This article only presents comments from a Consumer Reports entry. Suggesting that DED is part of a vast conspiracy to hide reality because he has some unknown amount of shares in Apple (if he does) is complete bullshit.
Also, brush up on grammar and spelling. Affect/effect, Ford's is not plural, and so on. Please don't drag the conversation down to childish Gizmodo levels with emotional hysterics and ignorant language skills.
IPHONE 4 is a marvelous piece of technology. Unfortunately, due to ATT not providing enough towers what would be a 3 bar signal on Verizon is a 1 bar signal on ATT or even a dropped call. So the choice comes down to..........Keep the IPHONE4 for it being such a state of the art device or return it for the mediocre phone service.
Remember nobody is twisting your arm either way.
Not mediocre phone service in the SFBA. It's excellent. I'm having zero problems with the iPhone 4.
I'm sorry AT&T's service sucks in your local area. Don't know what to tell you. Maybe you can whine to your city leaders to let AT&T build more towers in your local area?
I had an iPhone 4 ordered from Apple that would have been here next week. But I could not bring myself to sign another 2 years with AT&T. Is the iPhone a better device? Yes. There is no better device on the market right now. But being back on Verizon makes me realize how much I have missed for the last 3 years with the iPhone (and yes, I was an original owner in 2007). I can actually make and receive phone calls, texts, and use the Internet consistently and reliably. So I will see you in 2 years when the exclusivity contract is up with AT&T.
Where I am located ATT is a very good carrier, and I can make the same sending and receiving phone calls, text messages and internet access. If (or when) the iPhone ever comes to Verizon you will probably find the same issues as on ATT due to increased data load. Except you will have an Android phone on contract for the next 2 years, or pay Verizon's exit fee. Enjoy.
Not mediocre phone service in the SFBA. It's excellent. I'm having zero problems with the iPhone 4.
I'm sorry AT&T's service sucks in your local area. Don't know what to tell you. Maybe you can whine to your city leaders to let AT&T build more towers in your local area?
Me too. I have a friend who is always having reception issues with Verizon, but that could be from the Moto Droid she is using.
However, I have learned to just readjust my grip, the bars come back, and I am fine with that. It's a great product overall, so this is an inconvenience that I plan to live with (I hate the bumpers).
The real problem I have is when I am 3G-only, and I am web surfing, with the handset cupped in my left hand...... still woking on the appropriate grip for that one...... \
It has been an issue for me since I first took my phone out of the box. I normally hold cup style to have a secure grip on my phone. I have changed my grip to thumb on o e side, middle finger on other with index finger on the Apple logo on back to secure the grip when making calls.
I still lose data rates and pages will stop loading when I hold when I am on the web. So if you find a good grip please share. I am ok with changing my grip for talking as I don't want a case or bumper.
Overall phone is amazing. Display, camera/video, speed and battery life are big improvements.
You obviously did not read the thread, or are being frivolous. Please look at post #25, and tell me how you would solve the problem of navigating the web on the iPhone.
Hold it from the sides rather than cupping it in your hand. Problem solved. Or, if you really aren't bright enough to change the way to hold your phone, turn the phone upside down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joguide
After a week of mass hysteria, thanks to the work by Anandtech, Consumer Reports and others, the issue is finally getting a true, analytical vetting-and the conclusion is that iP4 is the best phone on the planet.
SJ was right, don't hold it that way, but even if you are a masochist and insist on deliberately trying to drop your call, you actually only loose one bar, unless of course you have bad signal to start off with.
For the Android lovers, you day of reckoning is coming in 2 weeks. Your new Android XYZ will also get the same vetting, and guess what, your precious phone will loose bars just like any other phone.
Actually, it won't. The massive flaws of the Android phones have been largely ignored by the media. They seem to only be able to handle one target at a time - and Apple is this year's winner.
Because some of us like to be thorough and objective. You should give it a try sometime, you may like it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
What a load of crap. You only said it to be suggestive. To be thorough and objective? Bullshit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Absolutely. I'm suggesting that RF could be affected and effected with ease by a source not shown on that video because I, unlike you, are being objective by exploring and considering all possible reasons for signal loss instead of jumping to wild conclusions based on hard evidence.
Your entire paranoid argument falls apart because your view of my position on this matter would exclude me from making a post about the 3G Spot issue or posting a video detailing it.
Again, you're falling back into trolling mode with your knee-jerk one-liners calling people drug addicts simply for disagreeing with you yet having no viable argument to back up your statement.
It's sad to me when I read the AI forums and witness Solipsism and Ireland, the two whom I consider the mavens of the AI forums, as adversaries. I come here to be informed and instead I get a couple of guys arguing. I'm not taking sides but, in my opinion, Solipsism is keeping an objective head about the whole thing. Never have I seen Ireland so....hardnosed, for lack of a better term.
For the record, I am both a shareholder and an iPhone 4 owner, and proud owners of both. I can duplicate the bar issue, but NEVER had a problem with dropped calls or slower data transfer. I, also, have better reception and less dropped calls than I had with my 3G iPhone, which I handed down to my wife after loading 4.0 on it.
I do have a few issues with the 4.0 software, though. I'm not getting push notifications when the phone is in standby in certain open apps. I've noticed that I don't get a text notification when I put the phone in standby after viewing the recent calls list. Anyone else notice this? Not a big deal for me, I know Apple will make it so "it just works" in 4.1
Try to remember one thing. No matter how good one's intentions are to be perfect, and no matter how much one wishes that new, cutting edge technology will be perfect, it doesn't always happen the first time around. Patience is a virtue, and I believe in this company. One way or another, Apple will make it right for 99.8% of their customers. The other .2% will NEVER be happy, no matter what.....and that's sad.
All my calls so far have failed unless I hold it differently, then it's been fine. That said though the only calls I've made on it whilst holding it normally have been from inside my house which has 2 feet thick stone walls and shows between 1 and 2 bars on Vodafone's non 3G network. The manager at Vodafone had 5 bars of 3G coverage and when he made a call, and he certainly didn't look like he was tightly gripping it (I think he probably wanted to see what would happen if he did everything the way he does on his 3GS) the call failed within seconds.
Then you have a defective phone.
But that should be painfully obvious.
Mine has served me well, and I depend on it for business.
I'm happy that AT&T is good in your area. For me, it has been horrible. So because I have had a bad experience with AT&T I chose to go with a different carrier. I couldn't get an iPhone on Verizon so I went with the next best thing. Why does that bother you so much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerten-flash
Where I am located ATT is a very good carrier, and I can make the same sending and receiving phone calls, text messages and internet access. If (or when) the iPhone ever comes to Verizon you will probably find the same issues as on ATT due to increased data load. Except you will have an Android phone on contract for the next 2 years, or pay Verizon's exit fee. Enjoy.
You know, I just got the iphone 4 and I have no problems what so ever(the screen is amazing!). And if the signal issue is a problem get a bumper. I don't think anyone will walk around, unless they're stupid, with the iphone unprotected.
And if you want to know one of the worst phone services around then look no further than Metro Piece of S***!!!!!
I had the awesome,IMHO, LG env in orange on Verizon and there was never a drop call. Nothing!
But when my wife got me the 3GS last year, I gave her the env and she had it hooked up to Metro pcs.
That phone now drops calls, in conjunction with metro pcs, more than Tiger Woods drops "WOOD" into woman that are not his wife.
Comments
There is almost no one suffering. They THINK they are because all of these sites and 'news' sites are saying oh there is this huge issue lets sue APPLE!!!! And they think well I must be having the issue. Then they convince themselves they ARE having the issue. It is funny because I got my phone a day early and I actually get an added bar if I touch all 3 pieces... There is no Scandal. There is no shocking news.. It is all blown out of proportion. What should be blown up is how open the Droid marketplace is and how much information the apps on the marketplace can take from its users like malware.
Sheeshopete
@Hands Sandon has demonstrated that he has a valid issue and he has discussed this rationally in at least 2 other AI threads.
What I don't understand is why @Hands Sandon feels he needs to come on so strong at the beginning of a new thread... seems counter productive!
Like this:
-Tired lies for money on the backs of iPhone 4 purchasers-
There are going to be a lot of people who suffer serious problems who won't trust Apple or reviewers ever again. This goes well beyond a slight problem, it's a huge problem with no case and will still be a problem with a case. It's great that the antenna works better than it did when it's not held as 95%, at least, of people will, but it's shocking how bad it is when you hold it normally. It's scandalous that reviewers and Apple are saying you have to squeeze it tight to experience any kind of serious signal loss, that isn't the case at all.
.
@Hands Sandon has demonstrated that he has a valid issue and he has discussed this rationally in at least 2 other AI threads.
What I don't understand is why @Hands Sandon feels he needs to come on so strong at the beginning of a new thread... seems counter productive!
Like this:
.
I stand by what you quoted completely. That letter to ip4 owners makes it sound like there's barely a problem and you'll only experience it enough to have any problems if you squeeze the phone tightly, which for hundreds of thousands of people, and soon millions, is an insult because all we are doing is holding it the way we've been holding it before and that practically every picture that Apple have ever shown of people holding it, holding it.
How anyone can defend Apple's stance, even if they themselves aren't having issues makes ME stunned!
Apple Iphone 4. Hold Different.
Consumer Reports added, "Apple's Steve Jobs helpfully reminds new iPhone buyers that 'you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.'"
And they forgot to mention that someone else would likely want to buy it off from you, since you're giving back such a rare piece of work
I stand by what you quoted completely. That letter to ip4 owners makes it sound like there's barely a problem and you'll only experience it enough to have any problems if you squeeze the phone tightly, which for hundreds of thousands of people, and soon millions, is an insult because all we are doing is holding it the way we've been holding it before and that practically every picture that Apple have ever shown of people holding it, holding it.
How anyone can defend Apple's stance, even if they themselves aren't having issues makes ME stunned!
I for one, am not defending Apple. I feel they made a design choice that impacts phone operation for some people. While that is true, there are actions that can be taken by YOU to get a functioning phone, and they have been well documented in this and other threads.
While righteous indignation may make you feel better, just because the phone does not operate in the manner to which you wished it did doesn't change anything. You still have a phone that does not work the way you want it to. It does work well for many many other people.
You can continue to rage at Apple/Steve Jobs, or you can get an Android phone, or you can get a case. Or you can take a chill pill and see how things shake out in the next week or two. Your choice.
http://www.macnn.com/articles/10/07/...eral.lawsuits/
Problem solved-
SJ was right, don't hold it that way, but even if you are a masochist and insist on deliberately trying to drop your call, you actually only loose one bar, unless of course you have bad signal to start off with.
For the Android lovers, you day of reckoning is coming in 2 weeks. Your new Android XYZ will also get the same vetting, and guess what, your precious phone will loose bars just like any other phone. The only bad thing is that no one is going to carry the story because no one wants one and no one cares. How many people are going to stand in line all night for this phone? How much phone do you think it will sell in 3 days? When the Android XYZ goes on sale, it will be a nonevent.
So you Trolls, go back to your cave before you get hurt. The night is lifting and the sun is coming out. But if you insist on coming back, come back on Android XYZ launch day. As they say, turnabout it fair play. Should be fun...
JoeG
Get a Droid Incredible - You deserve it.
I had an iPhone 4 ordered from Apple that would have been here next week. But I could not bring myself to sign another 2 years with AT&T. Is the iPhone a better device? Yes. There is no better device on the market right now. But being back on Verizon makes me realize how much I have missed for the last 3 years with the iPhone (and yes, I was an original owner in 2007). I can actually make and receive phone calls, texts, and use the Internet consistently and reliably. So I will see you in 2 years when the exclusivity contract is up with AT&T.
Remember nobody is twisting your arm either way.
Me too. It is an issue.
However, I have learned to just readjust my grip, the bars come back, and I am fine with that. It's a great product overall, so this is an inconvenience that I plan to live with (I hate the bumpers).
The real problem I have is when I am 3G-only, and I am web surfing, with the handset cupped in my left hand...... still woking on the appropriate grip for that one......
Yeah, it's a lie actually. Keep in mind Daniel Eran is an Apple Shareholder. This seems to effect the stories he writes, and how he writes them.
What is interesting are people like Spam Sandwich: who is an Apple shareholder and can also asses things like this, honestly. He isn't afraid to call Apple out and say it as it is. We love him for that. He's not full of crap like some people.
Please keep your comments on topic and articulate ideas effectively rather than relying on unsubstantiated character attacks.
This article only presents comments from a Consumer Reports entry. Suggesting that DED is part of a vast conspiracy to hide reality because he has some unknown amount of shares in Apple (if he does) is complete bullshit.
Also, brush up on grammar and spelling. Affect/effect, Ford's is not plural, and so on. Please don't drag the conversation down to childish Gizmodo levels with emotional hysterics and ignorant language skills.
IPHONE 4 is a marvelous piece of technology. Unfortunately, due to ATT not providing enough towers what would be a 3 bar signal on Verizon is a 1 bar signal on ATT or even a dropped call. So the choice comes down to..........Keep the IPHONE4 for it being such a state of the art device or return it for the mediocre phone service.
Remember nobody is twisting your arm either way.
Not mediocre phone service in the SFBA. It's excellent. I'm having zero problems with the iPhone 4.
I'm sorry AT&T's service sucks in your local area. Don't know what to tell you. Maybe you can whine to your city leaders to let AT&T build more towers in your local area?
I had an iPhone 4 ordered from Apple that would have been here next week. But I could not bring myself to sign another 2 years with AT&T. Is the iPhone a better device? Yes. There is no better device on the market right now. But being back on Verizon makes me realize how much I have missed for the last 3 years with the iPhone (and yes, I was an original owner in 2007). I can actually make and receive phone calls, texts, and use the Internet consistently and reliably. So I will see you in 2 years when the exclusivity contract is up with AT&T.
Where I am located ATT is a very good carrier, and I can make the same sending and receiving phone calls, text messages and internet access. If (or when) the iPhone ever comes to Verizon you will probably find the same issues as on ATT due to increased data load. Except you will have an Android phone on contract for the next 2 years, or pay Verizon's exit fee. Enjoy.
Not mediocre phone service in the SFBA. It's excellent. I'm having zero problems with the iPhone 4.
I'm sorry AT&T's service sucks in your local area. Don't know what to tell you. Maybe you can whine to your city leaders to let AT&T build more towers in your local area?
Me too. I have a friend who is always having reception issues with Verizon, but that could be from the Moto Droid she is using.
Me too. It is an issue.
However, I have learned to just readjust my grip, the bars come back, and I am fine with that. It's a great product overall, so this is an inconvenience that I plan to live with (I hate the bumpers).
The real problem I have is when I am 3G-only, and I am web surfing, with the handset cupped in my left hand...... still woking on the appropriate grip for that one......
It has been an issue for me since I first took my phone out of the box. I normally hold cup style to have a secure grip on my phone. I have changed my grip to thumb on o e side, middle finger on other with index finger on the Apple logo on back to secure the grip when making calls.
I still lose data rates and pages will stop loading when I hold when I am on the web. So if you find a good grip please share. I am ok with changing my grip for talking as I don't want a case or bumper.
Overall phone is amazing. Display, camera/video, speed and battery life are big improvements.
You obviously did not read the thread, or are being frivolous. Please look at post #25, and tell me how you would solve the problem of navigating the web on the iPhone.
Hold it from the sides rather than cupping it in your hand. Problem solved. Or, if you really aren't bright enough to change the way to hold your phone, turn the phone upside down.
After a week of mass hysteria, thanks to the work by Anandtech, Consumer Reports and others, the issue is finally getting a true, analytical vetting-and the conclusion is that iP4 is the best phone on the planet.
SJ was right, don't hold it that way, but even if you are a masochist and insist on deliberately trying to drop your call, you actually only loose one bar, unless of course you have bad signal to start off with.
For the Android lovers, you day of reckoning is coming in 2 weeks. Your new Android XYZ will also get the same vetting, and guess what, your precious phone will loose bars just like any other phone.
Actually, it won't. The massive flaws of the Android phones have been largely ignored by the media. They seem to only be able to handle one target at a time - and Apple is this year's winner.
So why even say that then?
Because some of us like to be thorough and objective. You should give it a try sometime, you may like it.
What a load of crap. You only said it to be suggestive. To be thorough and objective? Bullshit.
Absolutely. I'm suggesting that RF could be affected and effected with ease by a source not shown on that video because I, unlike you, are being objective by exploring and considering all possible reasons for signal loss instead of jumping to wild conclusions based on hard evidence.
Your entire paranoid argument falls apart because your view of my position on this matter would exclude me from making a post about the 3G Spot issue or posting a video detailing it.
Again, you're falling back into trolling mode with your knee-jerk one-liners calling people drug addicts simply for disagreeing with you yet having no viable argument to back up your statement.
It's sad to me when I read the AI forums and witness Solipsism and Ireland, the two whom I consider the mavens of the AI forums, as adversaries. I come here to be informed and instead I get a couple of guys arguing. I'm not taking sides but, in my opinion, Solipsism is keeping an objective head about the whole thing. Never have I seen Ireland so....hardnosed, for lack of a better term.
For the record, I am both a shareholder and an iPhone 4 owner, and proud owners of both. I can duplicate the bar issue, but NEVER had a problem with dropped calls or slower data transfer. I, also, have better reception and less dropped calls than I had with my 3G iPhone, which I handed down to my wife after loading 4.0 on it.
I do have a few issues with the 4.0 software, though. I'm not getting push notifications when the phone is in standby in certain open apps. I've noticed that I don't get a text notification when I put the phone in standby after viewing the recent calls list. Anyone else notice this? Not a big deal for me, I know Apple will make it so "it just works" in 4.1
Try to remember one thing. No matter how good one's intentions are to be perfect, and no matter how much one wishes that new, cutting edge technology will be perfect, it doesn't always happen the first time around. Patience is a virtue, and I believe in this company. One way or another, Apple will make it right for 99.8% of their customers. The other .2% will NEVER be happy, no matter what.....and that's sad.
All my calls so far have failed unless I hold it differently, then it's been fine. That said though the only calls I've made on it whilst holding it normally have been from inside my house which has 2 feet thick stone walls and shows between 1 and 2 bars on Vodafone's non 3G network. The manager at Vodafone had 5 bars of 3G coverage and when he made a call, and he certainly didn't look like he was tightly gripping it (I think he probably wanted to see what would happen if he did everything the way he does on his 3GS) the call failed within seconds.
Then you have a defective phone.
But that should be painfully obvious.
Mine has served me well, and I depend on it for business.
I hope your replacement works out great for you.
Where I am located ATT is a very good carrier, and I can make the same sending and receiving phone calls, text messages and internet access. If (or when) the iPhone ever comes to Verizon you will probably find the same issues as on ATT due to increased data load. Except you will have an Android phone on contract for the next 2 years, or pay Verizon's exit fee. Enjoy.
And if you want to know one of the worst phone services around then look no further than Metro Piece of S***!!!!!
I had the awesome,IMHO, LG env in orange on Verizon and there was never a drop call. Nothing!
But when my wife got me the 3GS last year, I gave her the env and she had it hooked up to Metro pcs.
That phone now drops calls, in conjunction with metro pcs, more than Tiger Woods drops "WOOD" into woman that are not his wife.