-- were waiting for Apple's response before purchasing an iPhone 4
-- have already returned their iPhone 4s, awaiting a hardware change
think of Apple's response.
Are you satisfied, or, at least, mollified?
Will you purchase your first iPhone 4?
will you purchase another iPhone 4 to replace a returned iPhone 4?
.
I was waiting for Apple's response before I went ahead and bought an iPhone4. I am a current 3GS user, had one crap out on me 2 days after my warranty and Apple replaced it for free, so I feel like I have to use it for a while before I get another phone.
I'm not completely satisfied with the free bumper response, but it's better than nothing. I'd really rather they put some kind of permanent non conductive coating on the antenna so I wouldn't be required to put the phone in a case.
Did some of you even read the transcript: They are NOT giving away Bumpers, only 3rd party cases, which are very cheap - the reason (supposedly) is because they don't have enough bumpers (BS). The cases are less than $1 to make, and the bumpers are high quality, multi-material, precision cases - totally different, and much costlier to make. This means Apple will still make a bunch of money, because no one will want to use the cheapo case, even if free. Loved his comment about Eminem maybe coming out with a piece of tape that everyone may want to use instead (what next "Eminem Personalized Battleribbon Duct-tape")
WRONG AGAIN!
Apple's own website says:
"iPhone 4 Bumpers are currently unavailable for sale.
Apple will offer a free iPhone 4 Bumper or other select cases to iPhone 4 customers. Details on how to order a free Bumper or case will be available soon on apple.com."
the only thing that surprised me was caving in to the whiners with free cases, after he made it fairly obvious that there wasn't really even a problem
I can't believe that they are trying to appease the haters. That never works, and they will continue to whine and whine, even while enjoying the heck out of their IP4 and their free case.
They may indeed be providing a bumper refund, but they will NOT be providing a free bumper with each new purchase (until Sep 30th - or longer perhaps - he left this open-ended). The freebe will be a 3rd party case, because he said they do not have enough bumpers to go around (from the live blog of the event, which may or may not be accurate, of course)
Don't keep quoting a transcript that is NOT from Apple. Here are the FACTS from the Apple web site:
"iPhone 4 Bumpers are currently unavailable for sale.
Apple will offer a free iPhone 4 Bumper or other select cases to iPhone 4 customers. Details on how to order a free Bumper or case will be available soon on apple.com."
I don't remember too many people saying that. Many (myself included) said that Apple SHOULDN'T give away free bumpers, but that's not the same thing. They clearly went for the PR.
So, JR, you going to opt for the free bumpers? Even though you don't need one, there is not problem and you said they shouldn't? Going to take advantage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
However, as long as you're trying to make people stand by their earlier words, where are the people who said that the iPhone was being returned in massive numbers? Where are the people who said it was a massive problem and affected massive numbers of iPhone owners? Where are the people who said that the iPhone was the only phone that dropped calls?
The return rates are useless. Many people might have been waiting to see what Apple would do about it. Now they know. Some might have just decided to deal with it. Lots of reasons to keep what is otherwise a great phone.
And who did say the iPhone was the only one that dropped calls. That must have been the same people that said it kills people. Wait, they didn't. Just another strawman. They get tired.
Apple admitted to a problem and said it affects all iPhone. They just happened to also try to prove it applies to all phones. Of course, all the showed was other phones being squeezed and only showed them dropping bars. Nothing about how many dBs were dropped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yes, it's all PR. IMHO, the important part of the press conference was the facts - few iPhones being returned. Less than 0.5% of customers calling to complain. Only a slight increase in dropped calls from the 3G (although I suspect that a lot of those were people intentionally going out of their way to demonstrate the problem). Dropped calls experienced on other smart phones. All of that set the stage for Steve to have said "there's nothing wrong with this phone", but he didn't. He made concessions to appease the whiners. And it appears to be working.
None of that data relates to how wide spread the problem might or might not be. Owners might still be very satisfied, might not have bothered to call, might not have returned, etc. Those number represent a very positive reaction to the iPhone 4. Great. Hard to use those to say there is no problem at all.
Did he ever say "sorry" or "I/we apologize?" Just curious as the feed obviously isnt a verbatim report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc
no he didn't.
10:07AM "You know, we're not perfect. We know that, you know that. And phones aren't perfect either."
10:16AM "And we had a reporting error -- we screwed up on our algorithm. Some of these other phones may be too generous. Our choice was to put the correct algorithm in. And we did that with the new update. You'll still see a drop... we haven't figured out a way around the laws of physics yet."
10:36AM "We do this because we love our users, and if we screw up, we pick ourselves up and we try harder. And when we succeed, they reward us by staying our users. ..."
10:45 "there are some customers who are having problems.. and i apologize to them.'
The return rate is lower than the previous phone, and the call drop rate is well within margin of error compared to the previous phone. In fact, if you factor in 4x fewer cases on the new phone then its actually dropping fewer calls.
There are some things to consider with this stat. The iPhone 4 was launched with very little in the way of cases. Even Apple is on short supply of their Bumpers. On the other hand, the 3GS was the exact same shell and dimension of the 3G so there were a year of cases on the market waiting for the 3GS so I would expect iPhone 4 case sales to be significantly lower than the 3GS.
The expensive facility is necessary for optimizing antenna performance. No such facility is required to confirm that a problem exists.
In other words, eliminating or preventing problems is hard and requires tons of expertise and equipment. Proving that a problem exists requires very little if any equipment and no expertise at all.
Its the elementary axiom that proving something never happens is impossible. Proving that something sometimes happens is easy.
Steve spent a good chunk of time pointing out how all smartphones have this problem. It isn't just an iPhone problem.
Now that Apple is the world leader in mobile phones, it is up to them to educate the public. It is their responsibility. That is why Steve spent his time that way - to educate the public. His time is valuable, and so we should be grateful.
The other topic that he spent a lot of time on is how much everyone at Apple loves every customer and cares about every customer. For example, he told us that they built 300 Apple Stores because they love their customers so much. Those store cost Apple a FORTUNE! And they built them for us.
Saying: "If you don't like the phone it, return it".
Is the same as saying: "If you don't like the discussion, don't read it".
No it is not. It is a sensible suggestion.
If I buy a product and it does not do what I want or it is faulty and I have the chance for a full refund, I don't keep it and moan about it, I return it and move on.
Why keep a product that you don't like or want?
Some would say that was "cutting of your nose to spite your face".
It a perfectly reasonable offer from Apple:
1. If you are not 100% happy with the product we will give a 100% refund and you can get out of your contract, can't really do more than that.
2. If you are happy on the whole but feel a case would help then they will give you a case for free, no questions asked.
3. You are happy as you are, no case or return required. Great.
What exactly do you want to happen, a new iPhone design? Well it is not going to happen, so you have to choose one of the above options, end of.
Actually, when asked if they were planning a redesign, Jobs answer was
"Steve: We’re still working on this — we’re happy with the design. … we’re getting a lot of reports from customers that it’s way better than the 3GS. I don’t know what our next antenna design will be — maybe our wizards in the antenna lab will come up with something better. But looking at the data, we don’t think we have a problem."
hardly a no. Obviously, if they are still selling the iPhone 4, something has to give. Either the extend the free bumper offer or something changes on the phone itself.
Try harder. I'm not sure what you're hoping for, but a redesign for a hyped antenna issue is not in the cards. Even AI is repeating the same news.
"Jobs said the external antenna allows more space inside the phone for features like a larger battery, all while being smaller than the previous iPhone 3GS. The company has no plans to modify its design of the iPhone 4."
I see a lot of people in the queue who "never" had any signal issues! Hypocrites.
Why do you say that? Who are the hypocrites? Those who avail of the free bumpers? Why are they hypocrites? Apple announced that it will give it away for free for every iPhone 4 customers. So why not avail of the freebie, it might help.
I talked to a friend who experienced some drop-off, but is still happy with her iPhone and has no intentionn to return it.
The hypocrites are those who claim they are not satisfied with their iPhones, and not just take the most logical course -- return it within 30 days, if you did not mess it up. Instead, they took the opportunity simply to complain. I bet some of the complainers in the internet are not even iPhone 4 owners, but just took the opportunity to bash Apple.
There are people who take delight at the mistakes or misfortunes of others.
CGC
N.B. I was at the main Boston Apple Store in Bolyston yesterday. I was amazed how crowded the store was. The first floor and the second floor were mostly iPhone. There were so many people trying them, in spite of all the negative publicity, as if it was worse than the oil spill in Louisiana.
I used it to call a friend of mine, no problem of dropped call whatsoever, on either side..
I tried the camera, and it was awesome for a mobile phone. The zoom was great. My hands are not the most steady, but the image was stil very clear. Not even the one I took outside, past the thick transparent facade And, you can zoom the photo taken. I wanted to try more features, but the place was just so noisy, plus I was pressed for time.
Comments
.
I am interested to know what those who:
-- were experiencing real problems
-- were waiting for Apple's response before purchasing an iPhone 4
-- have already returned their iPhone 4s, awaiting a hardware change
think of Apple's response.
Are you satisfied, or, at least, mollified?
Will you purchase your first iPhone 4?
will you purchase another iPhone 4 to replace a returned iPhone 4?
.
I was waiting for Apple's response before I went ahead and bought an iPhone4. I am a current 3GS user, had one crap out on me 2 days after my warranty and Apple replaced it for free, so I feel like I have to use it for a while before I get another phone.
I'm not completely satisfied with the free bumper response, but it's better than nothing. I'd really rather they put some kind of permanent non conductive coating on the antenna so I wouldn't be required to put the phone in a case.
Did some of you even read the transcript: They are NOT giving away Bumpers, only 3rd party cases, which are very cheap - the reason (supposedly) is because they don't have enough bumpers (BS). The cases are less than $1 to make, and the bumpers are high quality, multi-material, precision cases - totally different, and much costlier to make. This means Apple will still make a bunch of money, because no one will want to use the cheapo case, even if free. Loved his comment about Eminem maybe coming out with a piece of tape that everyone may want to use instead (what next "Eminem Personalized Battleribbon Duct-tape")
WRONG AGAIN!
Apple's own website says:
"iPhone 4 Bumpers are currently unavailable for sale.
Apple will offer a free iPhone 4 Bumper or other select cases to iPhone 4 customers. Details on how to order a free Bumper or case will be available soon on apple.com."
Apology?
the only thing that surprised me was caving in to the whiners with free cases, after he made it fairly obvious that there wasn't really even a problem
I can't believe that they are trying to appease the haters. That never works, and they will continue to whine and whine, even while enjoying the heck out of their IP4 and their free case.
So all of you who stated here that you never had issues with attenuation( Solipsism, etc. ), won't be
getting the free case, right? Right.. that's what I thought.
That?s a silly assumption. Can you not think of any other reason why one would want a thick ring of rubber around their iPhone? Hint: protection.
I?ll also be buying a MarWare SportShell case for the iPhone 4 when they finally start shipping.
Some people would whine if you hung them with a new rope.
They may indeed be providing a bumper refund, but they will NOT be providing a free bumper with each new purchase (until Sep 30th - or longer perhaps - he left this open-ended). The freebe will be a 3rd party case, because he said they do not have enough bumpers to go around (from the live blog of the event, which may or may not be accurate, of course)
Don't keep quoting a transcript that is NOT from Apple. Here are the FACTS from the Apple web site:
"iPhone 4 Bumpers are currently unavailable for sale.
Apple will offer a free iPhone 4 Bumper or other select cases to iPhone 4 customers. Details on how to order a free Bumper or case will be available soon on apple.com."
Now is that clear?
I don't remember too many people saying that. Many (myself included) said that Apple SHOULDN'T give away free bumpers, but that's not the same thing. They clearly went for the PR.
So, JR, you going to opt for the free bumpers? Even though you don't need one, there is not problem and you said they shouldn't? Going to take advantage?
However, as long as you're trying to make people stand by their earlier words, where are the people who said that the iPhone was being returned in massive numbers? Where are the people who said it was a massive problem and affected massive numbers of iPhone owners? Where are the people who said that the iPhone was the only phone that dropped calls?
The return rates are useless. Many people might have been waiting to see what Apple would do about it. Now they know. Some might have just decided to deal with it. Lots of reasons to keep what is otherwise a great phone.
And who did say the iPhone was the only one that dropped calls. That must have been the same people that said it kills people. Wait, they didn't. Just another strawman. They get tired.
Apple admitted to a problem and said it affects all iPhone. They just happened to also try to prove it applies to all phones. Of course, all the showed was other phones being squeezed and only showed them dropping bars. Nothing about how many dBs were dropped.
Yes, it's all PR. IMHO, the important part of the press conference was the facts - few iPhones being returned. Less than 0.5% of customers calling to complain. Only a slight increase in dropped calls from the 3G (although I suspect that a lot of those were people intentionally going out of their way to demonstrate the problem). Dropped calls experienced on other smart phones. All of that set the stage for Steve to have said "there's nothing wrong with this phone", but he didn't. He made concessions to appease the whiners. And it appears to be working.
None of that data relates to how wide spread the problem might or might not be. Owners might still be very satisfied, might not have bothered to call, might not have returned, etc. Those number represent a very positive reaction to the iPhone 4. Great. Hard to use those to say there is no problem at all.
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan
Did he ever say "sorry" or "I/we apologize?" Just curious as the feed obviously isnt a verbatim report.
no he didn't.
10:07AM "You know, we're not perfect. We know that, you know that. And phones aren't perfect either."
10:16AM "And we had a reporting error -- we screwed up on our algorithm. Some of these other phones may be too generous. Our choice was to put the correct algorithm in. And we did that with the new update. You'll still see a drop... we haven't figured out a way around the laws of physics yet."
10:36AM "We do this because we love our users, and if we screw up, we pick ourselves up and we try harder. And when we succeed, they reward us by staying our users. ..."
10:45 "there are some customers who are having problems.. and i apologize to them.'
The return rate is lower than the previous phone, and the call drop rate is well within margin of error compared to the previous phone. In fact, if you factor in 4x fewer cases on the new phone then its actually dropping fewer calls.
There are some things to consider with this stat. The iPhone 4 was launched with very little in the way of cases. Even Apple is on short supply of their Bumpers. On the other hand, the 3GS was the exact same shell and dimension of the 3G so there were a year of cases on the market waiting for the 3GS so I would expect iPhone 4 case sales to be significantly lower than the 3GS.
You're easily impressed.
The expensive facility is necessary for optimizing antenna performance. No such facility is required to confirm that a problem exists.
In other words, eliminating or preventing problems is hard and requires tons of expertise and equipment. Proving that a problem exists requires very little if any equipment and no expertise at all.
Its the elementary axiom that proving something never happens is impossible. Proving that something sometimes happens is easy.
Steve spent a good chunk of time pointing out how all smartphones have this problem. It isn't just an iPhone problem.
Now that Apple is the world leader in mobile phones, it is up to them to educate the public. It is their responsibility. That is why Steve spent his time that way - to educate the public. His time is valuable, and so we should be grateful.
The other topic that he spent a lot of time on is how much everyone at Apple loves every customer and cares about every customer. For example, he told us that they built 300 Apple Stores because they love their customers so much. Those store cost Apple a FORTUNE! And they built them for us.
But some people will still whine...
....fat-handed people who actually believe they have a problem holding the phone properly...
Yes, the audacity of holding a handheld device, with their hand. Don't they understand technology!?
Who's a whiner and who's someone with a legitimate complaint? How do YOU differentiate the two?
Posts history
So all of you who stated here that you never had issues with attenuation( Solipsism, etc. ), won't be
getting the free case, right? Right.. that's what I thought.
No, I'll just give it to the first person I meet that can demonstrate the problem.
Since launch I have unable to find one....
Just close this browser window and go away.
But seriously.
Saying: "If you don't like the phone it, return it".
Is the same as saying: "If you don't like the discussion, don't read it".
No it is not. It is a sensible suggestion.
If I buy a product and it does not do what I want or it is faulty and I have the chance for a full refund, I don't keep it and moan about it, I return it and move on.
Why keep a product that you don't like or want?
Some would say that was "cutting of your nose to spite your face".
It a perfectly reasonable offer from Apple:
1. If you are not 100% happy with the product we will give a 100% refund and you can get out of your contract, can't really do more than that.
2. If you are happy on the whole but feel a case would help then they will give you a case for free, no questions asked.
3. You are happy as you are, no case or return required. Great.
What exactly do you want to happen, a new iPhone design? Well it is not going to happen, so you have to choose one of the above options, end of.
Actually, when asked if they were planning a redesign, Jobs answer was
"Steve: We’re still working on this — we’re happy with the design. … we’re getting a lot of reports from customers that it’s way better than the 3GS. I don’t know what our next antenna design will be — maybe our wizards in the antenna lab will come up with something better. But looking at the data, we don’t think we have a problem."
hardly a no. Obviously, if they are still selling the iPhone 4, something has to give. Either the extend the free bumper offer or something changes on the phone itself.
Try harder. I'm not sure what you're hoping for, but a redesign for a hyped antenna issue is not in the cards. Even AI is repeating the same news.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...things_up.html
"Jobs said the external antenna allows more space inside the phone for features like a larger battery, all while being smaller than the previous iPhone 3GS. The company has no plans to modify its design of the iPhone 4."
I see a lot of people in the queue who "never" had any signal issues! Hypocrites.
Why do you say that? Who are the hypocrites? Those who avail of the free bumpers? Why are they hypocrites? Apple announced that it will give it away for free for every iPhone 4 customers. So why not avail of the freebie, it might help.
I talked to a friend who experienced some drop-off, but is still happy with her iPhone and has no intentionn to return it.
The hypocrites are those who claim they are not satisfied with their iPhones, and not just take the most logical course -- return it within 30 days, if you did not mess it up. Instead, they took the opportunity simply to complain. I bet some of the complainers in the internet are not even iPhone 4 owners, but just took the opportunity to bash Apple.
There are people who take delight at the mistakes or misfortunes of others.
CGC
N.B. I was at the main Boston Apple Store in Bolyston yesterday. I was amazed how crowded the store was. The first floor and the second floor were mostly iPhone. There were so many people trying them, in spite of all the negative publicity, as if it was worse than the oil spill in Louisiana.
I used it to call a friend of mine, no problem of dropped call whatsoever, on either side..
I tried the camera, and it was awesome for a mobile phone. The zoom was great. My hands are not the most steady, but the image was stil very clear. Not even the one I took outside, past the thick transparent facade And, you can zoom the photo taken. I wanted to try more features, but the place was just so noisy, plus I was pressed for time.
As some people predicted. A bunch of numbers and self-congratulatory remarks, followed by a free case.
Done. Next!
Which is exactly what most people will think of your post.
Try harder. I'm not sure what you're hoping for, but a redesign for a hyped antenna issue is not in the cards. Even AI is repeating the same news.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...things_up.html
AI wasn't even there. I'll take the word of the bloggers that were there covering it...on multiple sites that all said the same thing.