And, obviously, you'd like us to believe their numbers are misleading, but just as obviously your assertions are based on nothing at all.
Really ? So you believe that since Applecare only had 0.55% of the customers call in on the problem, this must accurately represent the actual number of people experiencing this issue ? Many people are aware of this issue. Many of these same people know Apple is aware of the issue. So why would the customer who is experiencing this issue call Applecare to report it, if they know Apple is already aware of it and is working on it. What good would it do ? So you really think every customer who has this issue is reporting it to Applecare ? Do you think even 5% of the customers who have the issue are wasting their time calling Applecare about it ? Why would they call ? Apple knows about the issue, they have no fix at the time, and the customer knows Apple is aware of the issue. That's why stating the Applecare data is very misleading. It makes it appear like only 0.55% of their customers have this issue. Which is probably very far from the true percentage. If this was an issue that wasn't in the media, or already acknowledged by Apple, then yes, the customer would call Applecare, because those customers would believe their phone has a unique issue.
I have a case on my iPhone 4. The first case I bought for a phone. Because I had many dropped calls on my iPhone 4. I had more dropped calls on my iPhone 4 in a few days then I had in 2 years of owning a iPhone 3G & 3GS. And I don't want to consciously always have to think about how to hold the phone differently then what comes naturally. I also used the speedtest.app and was shocked to see how dramatic the download/upload speed changes if I touched the seam in less then idea reception areas. The case fixes the issue, no doubt. And actually I don't mind the case now. I just don't like the way Apple is spinning and dancing around the issue. I think they should be more forthcoming of the issue, and stop pointing fingers at other phones. Because other phones do not have the issue as bad as the iPhone 4. Nor do the other phones have the critical spot in an area so easily touched by naturally holding the phone.
Apple bragged about how much testing they used when developing the iPhone 4. I'm surprised they didn't see this issue a long time ago with all that testing. Seems like they try to have it both ways. They say they do extensive testing in high tech labs, but yet they say they didn't see this issue.
I'm under the impression you do NOT own an IP4, and you're here just to stir the pot. Every post of yours is so redundant. Don't you have anything better to do? You MUST be getting paid by Google to post all this nonsense over-and-over. Get rid of your (non-existent)) IP4 please! And stop whining like a little B#†ch.
... The average user actually does need FTM, because everyone wants the best for their money. FTM helps people discover what's best, even if the knowledge comes indirectly from others who know how to use FTM. FTM costs Apple next to nothing to include. Field Test Mode in iOS4 would help quantify signal strength and attenuation so easily under a wide variety of conditions. Why wouldn't the average user want that capability to be available?
Well I kind of agree with your premise but not your conclusion. Also, you're just restating what you said last time here. I gave you at least three sentences as to why I think they don't need it, and you are basically just replying with "but they do."
I agree with the premise that (in general), the more information the user has the better. This is one reason why I'm absolutely *loving* the new bar display. I am in Canada where all the big cities have excellent coverage and all the cell towers are newer. So with the old bar display, all I ever saw was five bars or once in a blue moon I saw four bars. With the new bar display I now actually can see the signal go up and down as I walk through a room or down a street and I find that absolutely invaluable.
The main reasons I think the average user doesn't need field test mode on the phone are the same as before so I'll just restate them in a slightly different way:
- It's a scale of negative numbers and the average American hasn't finished high school.
- It's something a Linux user might want, but not a Mac or Windows user
I get that *you* want it, and I actually agree with your reasoning on why. I'm just saying that the average user has no need for it and it would confuse more people than it would please. The obvious counter argument to that is that they could put it in as a setting that people like yourself can enable if they wanted to, but historically Apple is adverse to doing that and generally "doesn't do settings."
Well I kind of agree with your premise but not your conclusion. Also, you're just restating what you said last time here. I gave you at least three sentences as to why I think they don't need it, and you are basically just replying with "but they do."
I agree with the premise that (in general), the more information the user has the better. This is one reason why I'm absolutely *loving* the new bar display. I am in Canada where all the big cities have excellent coverage and all the cell towers are newer. So with the old bar display, all I ever saw was five bars or once in a blue moon I saw four bars. With the new bar display I now actually can see the signal go up and down as I walk through a room or down a street and I find that absolutely invaluable.
The main reasons I think the average user doesn't need field test mode on the phone are the same as before so I'll just restate them in a slightly different way:
- It's a scale of negative numbers and the average American hasn't finished high school.
- It's something a Linux user might want, but not a Mac or Windows user
I get that *you* want it, and I actually agree with your reasoning on why. I'm just saying that the average user has no need for it and it would confuse more people than it would please. The obvious counter argument to that is that they could put it in as a setting that people like yourself can enable if they wanted to, but historically Apple is adverse to doing that and generally "doesn't do settings."
It should be downloadable as an app if that's not possible a special setting - but the point is it would confuse most people, just as they're confused over what the signal bars mean.
Something like FTM needs to show signal strength, interference, switching speed 3g to edge and a host of other things so that people can actually work out why they can't make a call, is it because of poor signal strength, interference, slow switching, de-tuning etc
Really ? So you believe that since Applecare only had 0.55% of the customers call in on the problem, this must accurately represent the actual number of people experiencing this issue ? ... [blah, blah blah] ...
I think that number, along with the returns, accurately reflects the number of people actual affected by it in a meaningful way, yes.
I think that number, along with the returns, accurately reflects the number of people actual affected by it in a meaningful way, yes.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
No, clearly I'm saying that you are just making stuff up.
Really ? So I'm making up all the independent expert tests and opinions too ? Go do your own research of the independent tests and opinions and let us know the results you come up with.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
As said earlier the people who cannot live with this limitation have returned their phones. That's an accurate representation in my opinion. As for Applecare - we could go round the houses all day with that. Whether people are being quiet, going to the place where they bought the phone in larger number than they are complaining via Applecare we don't know. What we do have is a stat that's checkable, the rest is conjecture.
From the manufacturer's (Apple's) point of view - it would seem the product is acceptable. They can't tell the # of people who may sulk or visit boards to complain. Apple can only act on the data they have. They have acted. In my opinion they've done all they can for now. Let's see what Sept brings.
It should be downloadable as an app if that's not possible a special setting - but the point is it would confuse most people, just as they're confused over what the signal bars mean.
Something like FTM needs to show signal strength, interference, switching speed 3g to edge and a host of other things so that people can actually work out why they can't make a call, is it because of poor signal strength, interference, slow switching, de-tuning etc
Sorry, it's not necessary. Cars don't display all the internal diagnostics, either. The average consumer has no need to know the diagnostic info. If you do need to know it, you have the correct equipment to make FTM meaningless.
Why would the user need FTM to know why they can't make a call? "No signal" is far, far, far more meaningful for the average user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
No, clearly I'm saying that you are just making stuff up.
But that's Ski1's standard practice.
Ski1: All the experts agree that Apple is wrong.
You: Where did you come up with that?
Ski1: So you're saying that all the experts agree with Apple? You're an idiot.
These lesser trolls have no concept of logical thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
He never said that everyone experiencing the issue called AppleCare. He said that the figure was a fair representation - that is, that the frequency is small. The low number of returns relative to the 3GS is confirmation.
Now, if you have evidence to back your claim that the figures are inaccurate, feel free to present it. Your incessant whining is not evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1
I never said I had better data then Apple, Strawman !!! Lol.
Actually, you did. You said that Apple's numbers were wrong. They only way you'd know that is if you had better numbers. So why in the world would any rational person believe that you have better numbers than Apple?
I think that number, along with the returns, accurately reflects the number of people actual affected by it in a meaningful way, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
What anonymouse is saying makes sense. I'm sure MORE people have the issue. Anyone can admit to that because it is entirely unlikely that EVERY person called in. But assuming "people affected by it in a meaningful way" means "people who actually care about the issue", I believe that's true. The people who cared called and returned their phones most likely, and those who can live with it are living with it. Think about it, if for you the phone delivers an unparalleled experience EXCEPT for the attenuation issue, which can be solved by a bumper, would you get another phone you don't like as much? I don't feel a case would be a burden if it meant having your ideal phone and never seeing that issue again.
- How many have gone back to Wal-Mart, RadioShack, BestBuy or any of the other outlets?
With these numbers, I think, the iPhone 4 will not look so good
Nice try Steve but Apple Care is not all of the facts.
And most if not all users have likely been told, there are fixes coming, hold on to your phone for awhile to see what they are coming up with.
Skip
This is a ridiculous assertion -- I'm quite sure that every single incident, whether via telephone or Genius Bar is tracked; it is standard industry practice. They capture information on the phone, on the time spent, etc, while being serviced at the Genius Bar.
Why do you think that this information is not being captured?
That is an incredibly bad idea...I recommend diversifying away even though APPL has really been awesome. Enron stock was amazing too...for a while. Not that APPL is likely to go the route of Enron but Jobs cant live forever.
Are we now giving investment advice on this thread?
Would you take investment advice from someone who:
-- posts anonymously on a thread with the alias nht (or any alias)
-- you have never met
-- you know nothing of their acumen, credentials, background, morals, ethics, etc.
-- knows nothing about your financial situation and investment goals
He'd be better off answering one of those spam investment opportunities that comes from the friend of the Minister of Goodness and Stupidity for the government of Nigeria.
Really ? So I'm making up all the independent expert tests and opinions too ? Go do your own research of the independent tests and opinions and let us know the results you come up with.
No, you're making up that they all support your position, and that most "independent experts" support your position. You know you haven't compiled data to support that assertion, and we know you haven't compiled data to support that assertion. We also know you aren't engaged in honest discussion here.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
There you go again. I clearly said, "affected by it in a meaningful way." Most of us experience something slightly unpleasant on a daily basis. Does it affect our lives in a meaningful way? No. It's not significant.
And, again, your opinion is based on nothing but the fact that you don't like the idea that people will realize that the uproar around the iP4 is much ado about nothing.
I'm usually part of those who keep their mouths shut when it's not necessary to open it ; but watching the bull that just delivred to us Steve Jobs (whom I admire otherwise) led me to think that we should all participate to something that may make him go 360 on what he said :
How about we all take 2 min of our time and call APPLECARE and tell them how bad the Antenna is ... just so that their know the real number of unsatisfied people..
what do you say ? shall we all do it throughout the world ?
There you go again. I clearly said, "affected by it in a meaningful way." Most of us experience something slightly unpleasant on a daily basis. Does it affect our lives in a meaningful way? No. It's not significant.
And, again, your opinion is based on nothing but the fact that you don't like the idea that people will realize that the uproar around the iP4 is much ado about nothing.
Comments
sorry you are so blinded by the spin that you believe the iPhone 4's issue is similar to other phones. Most independent experts disagree.
Do they? Did someone survey independent experts to find out what they think about this? Oh, you just made that up, didn't you.
And, obviously, you'd like us to believe their numbers are misleading, but just as obviously your assertions are based on nothing at all.
Really ? So you believe that since Applecare only had 0.55% of the customers call in on the problem, this must accurately represent the actual number of people experiencing this issue ? Many people are aware of this issue. Many of these same people know Apple is aware of the issue. So why would the customer who is experiencing this issue call Applecare to report it, if they know Apple is already aware of it and is working on it. What good would it do ? So you really think every customer who has this issue is reporting it to Applecare ? Do you think even 5% of the customers who have the issue are wasting their time calling Applecare about it ? Why would they call ? Apple knows about the issue, they have no fix at the time, and the customer knows Apple is aware of the issue. That's why stating the Applecare data is very misleading. It makes it appear like only 0.55% of their customers have this issue. Which is probably very far from the true percentage. If this was an issue that wasn't in the media, or already acknowledged by Apple, then yes, the customer would call Applecare, because those customers would believe their phone has a unique issue.
Do they? Did someone survey independent experts to find out what they think about this? Oh, you just made that up, didn't you.
Uhh, so are you trying to saying most independent experts agree with Apple ?
I have a case on my iPhone 4. The first case I bought for a phone. Because I had many dropped calls on my iPhone 4. I had more dropped calls on my iPhone 4 in a few days then I had in 2 years of owning a iPhone 3G & 3GS. And I don't want to consciously always have to think about how to hold the phone differently then what comes naturally. I also used the speedtest.app and was shocked to see how dramatic the download/upload speed changes if I touched the seam in less then idea reception areas. The case fixes the issue, no doubt. And actually I don't mind the case now. I just don't like the way Apple is spinning and dancing around the issue. I think they should be more forthcoming of the issue, and stop pointing fingers at other phones. Because other phones do not have the issue as bad as the iPhone 4. Nor do the other phones have the critical spot in an area so easily touched by naturally holding the phone.
Apple bragged about how much testing they used when developing the iPhone 4. I'm surprised they didn't see this issue a long time ago with all that testing. Seems like they try to have it both ways. They say they do extensive testing in high tech labs, but yet they say they didn't see this issue.
I'm under the impression you do NOT own an IP4, and you're here just to stir the pot. Every post of yours is so redundant. Don't you have anything better to do? You MUST be getting paid by Google to post all this nonsense over-and-over. Get rid of your (non-existent)) IP4 please! And stop whining like a little B#†ch.
... The average user actually does need FTM, because everyone wants the best for their money. FTM helps people discover what's best, even if the knowledge comes indirectly from others who know how to use FTM. FTM costs Apple next to nothing to include. Field Test Mode in iOS4 would help quantify signal strength and attenuation so easily under a wide variety of conditions. Why wouldn't the average user want that capability to be available?
Well I kind of agree with your premise but not your conclusion. Also, you're just restating what you said last time here. I gave you at least three sentences as to why I think they don't need it, and you are basically just replying with "but they do."
I agree with the premise that (in general), the more information the user has the better. This is one reason why I'm absolutely *loving* the new bar display. I am in Canada where all the big cities have excellent coverage and all the cell towers are newer. So with the old bar display, all I ever saw was five bars or once in a blue moon I saw four bars. With the new bar display I now actually can see the signal go up and down as I walk through a room or down a street and I find that absolutely invaluable.
The main reasons I think the average user doesn't need field test mode on the phone are the same as before so I'll just restate them in a slightly different way:
- It's a scale of negative numbers and the average American hasn't finished high school.
- It's something a Linux user might want, but not a Mac or Windows user
I get that *you* want it, and I actually agree with your reasoning on why. I'm just saying that the average user has no need for it and it would confuse more people than it would please. The obvious counter argument to that is that they could put it in as a setting that people like yourself can enable if they wanted to, but historically Apple is adverse to doing that and generally "doesn't do settings."
Well I kind of agree with your premise but not your conclusion. Also, you're just restating what you said last time here. I gave you at least three sentences as to why I think they don't need it, and you are basically just replying with "but they do."
I agree with the premise that (in general), the more information the user has the better. This is one reason why I'm absolutely *loving* the new bar display. I am in Canada where all the big cities have excellent coverage and all the cell towers are newer. So with the old bar display, all I ever saw was five bars or once in a blue moon I saw four bars. With the new bar display I now actually can see the signal go up and down as I walk through a room or down a street and I find that absolutely invaluable.
The main reasons I think the average user doesn't need field test mode on the phone are the same as before so I'll just restate them in a slightly different way:
- It's a scale of negative numbers and the average American hasn't finished high school.
- It's something a Linux user might want, but not a Mac or Windows user
I get that *you* want it, and I actually agree with your reasoning on why. I'm just saying that the average user has no need for it and it would confuse more people than it would please. The obvious counter argument to that is that they could put it in as a setting that people like yourself can enable if they wanted to, but historically Apple is adverse to doing that and generally "doesn't do settings."
It should be downloadable as an app if that's not possible a special setting - but the point is it would confuse most people, just as they're confused over what the signal bars mean.
Something like FTM needs to show signal strength, interference, switching speed 3g to edge and a host of other things so that people can actually work out why they can't make a call, is it because of poor signal strength, interference, slow switching, de-tuning etc
Really ? So you believe that since Applecare only had 0.55% of the customers call in on the problem, this must accurately represent the actual number of people experiencing this issue ? ... [blah, blah blah] ...
I think that number, along with the returns, accurately reflects the number of people actual affected by it in a meaningful way, yes.
Uhh, so are you trying to saying most independent experts agree with Apple ?
No, clearly I'm saying that you are just making stuff up.
I think that number, along with the returns, accurately reflects the number of people actual affected by it in a meaningful way, yes.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
No, clearly I'm saying that you are just making stuff up.
Really ? So I'm making up all the independent expert tests and opinions too ? Go do your own research of the independent tests and opinions and let us know the results you come up with.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
As said earlier the people who cannot live with this limitation have returned their phones. That's an accurate representation in my opinion. As for Applecare - we could go round the houses all day with that. Whether people are being quiet, going to the place where they bought the phone in larger number than they are complaining via Applecare we don't know. What we do have is a stat that's checkable, the rest is conjecture.
From the manufacturer's (Apple's) point of view - it would seem the product is acceptable. They can't tell the # of people who may sulk or visit boards to complain. Apple can only act on the data they have. They have acted. In my opinion they've done all they can for now. Let's see what Sept brings.
It should be downloadable as an app if that's not possible a special setting - but the point is it would confuse most people, just as they're confused over what the signal bars mean.
Something like FTM needs to show signal strength, interference, switching speed 3g to edge and a host of other things so that people can actually work out why they can't make a call, is it because of poor signal strength, interference, slow switching, de-tuning etc
Sorry, it's not necessary. Cars don't display all the internal diagnostics, either. The average consumer has no need to know the diagnostic info. If you do need to know it, you have the correct equipment to make FTM meaningless.
Why would the user need FTM to know why they can't make a call? "No signal" is far, far, far more meaningful for the average user.
No, clearly I'm saying that you are just making stuff up.
But that's Ski1's standard practice.
Ski1: All the experts agree that Apple is wrong.
You: Where did you come up with that?
Ski1: So you're saying that all the experts agree with Apple? You're an idiot.
These lesser trolls have no concept of logical thinking.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
He never said that everyone experiencing the issue called AppleCare. He said that the figure was a fair representation - that is, that the frequency is small. The low number of returns relative to the 3GS is confirmation.
Now, if you have evidence to back your claim that the figures are inaccurate, feel free to present it. Your incessant whining is not evidence.
I never said I had better data then Apple, Strawman !!! Lol.
Actually, you did. You said that Apple's numbers were wrong. They only way you'd know that is if you had better numbers. So why in the world would any rational person believe that you have better numbers than Apple?
I think that number, along with the returns, accurately reflects the number of people actual affected by it in a meaningful way, yes.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
What anonymouse is saying makes sense. I'm sure MORE people have the issue. Anyone can admit to that because it is entirely unlikely that EVERY person called in. But assuming "people affected by it in a meaningful way" means "people who actually care about the issue", I believe that's true. The people who cared called and returned their phones most likely, and those who can live with it are living with it. Think about it, if for you the phone delivers an unparalleled experience EXCEPT for the attenuation issue, which can be solved by a bumper, would you get another phone you don't like as much? I don't feel a case would be a burden if it meant having your ideal phone and never seeing that issue again.
0.55% have called AppleCare ?
- How many have gone into the Apple Stores?
- How many have called or gone into AT&T?
- How many have gone back to Wal-Mart, RadioShack, BestBuy or any of the other outlets?
With these numbers, I think, the iPhone 4 will not look so good
Nice try Steve but Apple Care is not all of the facts.
And most if not all users have likely been told, there are fixes coming, hold on to your phone for awhile to see what they are coming up with.
Skip
This is a ridiculous assertion -- I'm quite sure that every single incident, whether via telephone or Genius Bar is tracked; it is standard industry practice. They capture information on the phone, on the time spent, etc, while being serviced at the Genius Bar.
Why do you think that this information is not being captured?
That is an incredibly bad idea...I recommend diversifying away even though APPL has really been awesome. Enron stock was amazing too...for a while. Not that APPL is likely to go the route of Enron but Jobs cant live forever.
Are we now giving investment advice on this thread?
Would you take investment advice from someone who:
-- posts anonymously on a thread with the alias nht (or any alias)
-- you have never met
-- you know nothing of their acumen, credentials, background, morals, ethics, etc.
-- knows nothing about your financial situation and investment goals
He'd be better off answering one of those spam investment opportunities that comes from the friend of the Minister of Goodness and Stupidity for the government of Nigeria.
.
Really ? So I'm making up all the independent expert tests and opinions too ? Go do your own research of the independent tests and opinions and let us know the results you come up with.
No, you're making up that they all support your position, and that most "independent experts" support your position. You know you haven't compiled data to support that assertion, and we know you haven't compiled data to support that assertion. We also know you aren't engaged in honest discussion here.
Really ? So you believe everyone experiencing the issue is reporting the issue to Applecare ? My opinion is those Applecare numbers are far from representing the true numbers experiencing this issue. For the reasons above I previously stated.
There you go again. I clearly said, "affected by it in a meaningful way." Most of us experience something slightly unpleasant on a daily basis. Does it affect our lives in a meaningful way? No. It's not significant.
And, again, your opinion is based on nothing but the fact that you don't like the idea that people will realize that the uproar around the iP4 is much ado about nothing.
Hello People Out there,
I'm usually part of those who keep their mouths shut when it's not necessary to open it ; but watching the bull that just delivred to us Steve Jobs (whom I admire otherwise) led me to think that we should all participate to something that may make him go 360 on what he said :
How about we all take 2 min of our time and call APPLECARE and tell them how bad the Antenna is ... just so that their know the real number of unsatisfied people..
what do you say ? shall we all do it throughout the world ?
RYOSAEBAXYZ
Join Date
07-16-2010
Total Posts
1
There you go again. I clearly said, "affected by it in a meaningful way." Most of us experience something slightly unpleasant on a daily basis. Does it affect our lives in a meaningful way? No. It's not significant.
And, again, your opinion is based on nothing but the fact that you don't like the idea that people will realize that the uproar around the iP4 is much ado about nothing.
I could not agree more. Bravo.