RIM, Nokia respond to Apple's "Antennagate" press conference

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  • Reply 481 of 547
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    One, you are compare dissimilar things.

    Two, you ignore that this data from SquareTrade.

    Three, you ignore that fact that Apple is in the top ranking and has "better-than-average performance? than the overall total and total for premium notebooks.

    Four, you didn?t use any critical thinking in determining why one would use SquareTrade over AppleCare or if Mac longevity over non-Mac PCs is a contributing factor as to why a 2 or 3 year PC might not be "fixed? as often as a Mac.









    Exhibit A.



    Case closed!





    Oops-- didn't mean to step on your pic!



    .
  • Reply 482 of 547
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I don't think Apple will make quick hardware change as that would be the same thing as a complete recall of every iPhone 4. Everyone who bought the original would complain that they deserved a fixed version. If they do make any changes it won't be to remove the external antenna. They may quietly tweak the guts to minimize the issue but they will likely keep the design until next year.



    Besides it isn't the "Death Grip" it is "A Slight Inconvenience Grip". Just don't hold it like that when in a weak signal zone. There are many things in life that require modified behavior considerations. For example when it is raining or snowing, if you have a lick of sense you don't drive fast, you slow down accordingly. If you notice the sound quality of your phone is starting to falter and you have only a one small bar, don't hold your finger on the weak spot.



    You are right! There is just so much [potential] advantage to having the antenna outside the case. Once they get it right (and they will) the external antenna opens up possibilities for what you can cram inside-- and use the outside antenna to interface the outside world!



    The camera, A4 processor, iOS... are all good, but the iP4 breakthrough is the external antenna/frame-- the exoskeleton!



    So, all this insufferable crap means, that once again Apple has a 3-year lead on its competitors-- What? KimoSabe, me have death grip too? I never even left the reservation!



    Apologies in advance to Native Americans... it is a poor illustration!



    .
  • Reply 483 of 547
    firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,502member
    Never ending threeeeeaaaaaaad. La da daaa, la da daaa, la da daaaaaaaaa!





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    hah so true!

    i bet jfanning is one of those jealous Android users who cant stand the fact that their phones are junk.



    Fail in a thread of fail... clueless or peer pressure?
  • Reply 484 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post


    You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.



    1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.



    What are you talking about? In the videos we saw the hand touch those other phones NORMALLY, not squeeze the life out of them. We are all seeing the same thing with our own eyes. When Steve shows bars drop the exact same way by holding a competitors phone in a gentle and normal fashion, then you come back and say "it's different because you have to be "squeezing the life out of competing phones", you come across as either ignorant at best or intentionally lying at worst.
  • Reply 485 of 547
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post


    I hope Apple can make the external antenna work - and I hope Apple figure out a way of bringing back something like hypercard. I'm not sure how they're going to allow you to create your own apps and load them on your own machine without allowing an alternative distribution channel. Not that I mind.





    Ironically the Google system is based on the MIT Scratch technology that Apple banned from the iPad initially ( I believe now their spat with Adobe is over, they're in talks to allow it, just as they're allowing gaming interpreters).



    The difference with the Google solution is the app must be created on a pc rather than the target device.



    Nothing wrong with that, but if iOS had an AppleScript record....



    .
  • Reply 486 of 547
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    http://forums.appleinsider.com/searc...earchid=354792



    I see you did the same thing, but you have to grab the link before it switches. Luckily for me I?m on a slow network right now.



    Also, it?s not liking an internal link with the quotes around the URL so I had to remove them to make it work.



    PS: I beat you!
  • Reply 487 of 547
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I see you did the same thing, but you have to grab the link before it switches. Luckily for me I’m on a slow network right now.



    Also, it’s not liking an internal link with the quotes around the URL so I had to remove them to make it work.



    PS: I beat you!



    Neener, Neener, Neener (Pittsburgh accent)



    So much for technique!



    My link worked yours-- not so much!



    ... more's the pity!



    ,
  • Reply 488 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    The difference with the Google solution is the app must be created on a pc rather than the target device.



    Nothing wrong with that, but if iOS had an AppleScript record....



    .



    A record AppleScript would be good for automating processess. What would be awesome is a scratch type interface for Cocoa on the iDevices - that would lead to lots of people building apps and a great training tool for kids. The only problem would be distribution.





    Back to the antenna, I wonder if perfecting the external antenna would give Apple an advantage in near field technology ?
  • Reply 489 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post


    A record AppleScript would be good for automating processess. What would be awesome is a scratch type interface for Cocoa on the iDevices - that would lead to lots of people building apps and a great training tool for kids. The only problem would be distribution.




    Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!... Bump distro (and you can bump over the Internet, email, web pages, etc.



    Back to the antenna, I wonder if perfecting the external antenna would give Apple an advantage in near field technology ?[/QUOTE]



    Ohhhhhh..... yeah!! That's what this last 3 weeks have been all about!



    .
  • Reply 490 of 547
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post


    Back to the antenna, I wonder if perfecting the external antenna would give Apple an advantage in near field technology ?



    Perfection isn?t possible in this case as there is always room to better a product. What?s bound to happen is next year?s iPhone 5 will likely have an external antenna frame with some ?advancements? which the trolls will claim is proof that the iPhone 4 had a design flaw, otherwise they wouldn?t have changed it. So sad, really.



    I think it?s likely some slight issue, possibly affecting an even smaller percentage than this year?s antenna issue, will cause a dramatic outburst that will be exponentially echoed throughout the internets. This might suck for Apple, but it?s a good position to be in. Despite the longstanding proof that attenuation from holding the device and bars representation are mostly pointless it took Apple to make these issue known to the world, and I?m sure every vendor would change places with Apple given the chance.
  • Reply 491 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Ok. Let's attack this from the other direction. Are there any other phones current out there where, if you touch a single spot, you can lose your entire signal? This is what I perceive to be the real issue (regardless of whether people think it's a non-starter in the first place). The attenuation issue is hardly a dirty little secret. It's been in Nokia's documentation for years, as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread. All this talk of gripping and 'their's does it too' is diverting from the what I think is the substantive point.



    No I don't have an iPhone 4, but I am contemplating it. I update my 3GS to 4.0.1 last night and my signal is now three instead of five. Now that it's more 'accurate' it would appear I now live in an area where the signal could be affected negatively by the phenomenon: the 'death touch' you might more accurately say.



    From the videos shown in Steve Jobs' presentation, the other phones will lose bars easily with a NORMAL grip. If ALL I have to do is move one single finger to avoid that issue from happening on the iPhone, then it seems to me that the competitors' phones de-tuning issues are WORSE. I can easily move one finger off the spot on the iPhone, not so easily grip the others in a manner different than what was shown.



    Put another way, it seems from the videos that to avoid the signal drop, you need a complete reorganization of your grip on the competitors' phones, while you may or may not just need to move a solitary finger to alleviate the issue on the iPhone.



    Personally I love the way my iPhone 3Gs feels in the palm of my hand. I am in Canada and will be getting the iPhone 4 as soon as it's available. I never liked the way most other phones feel in my hand. I will shift a finger over if I need to and even still that will make for a more pleasurable holding experience than I can get with any other phone out there. People who feel otherwise, don't buy the iPhone! I am amazed you and others want to keep dragging this out... don't like the way you may need to grip the iPhone 4 to avoid a decrease in reception and prefer a different phone? Then buy the competition! Sheesh!
  • Reply 492 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post




    " I?m sure every vendor would change places with Apple given the chance."



    Once again, you get to the nut of the issue!



    .
  • Reply 493 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    The iPhone 4 is the only phone that can go from 5 bars to 0 bars with the touch of a single finger at a small part of the case.



    Apple is right to be criticized for this obvious design flaw. This is not standard attenuation.



    Yeah I agree. I've tried the deathgrip on BB Curve and my iPhone 3G but I couldn't manage to drop a signal bar. I even cupped the phone in between both my hands and squeezed the life out of it, but nothing happened. Either I haven't perfected my deathgrip technique or the force is not with me.
  • Reply 494 of 547
    shadashshadash Posts: 470member
    The problem with Apple "defenders" is they will (rightly) jump down somebody's throat when they post some numbers about high iPhone 4 defect rate, low satisfaction rates, etc. But if someone (that's you, davesw) posts some numbers, which indeed he did pull out of his ass, that happen to flatter Apple, or in this case attack Apple's competitors, nothing is said.



    Nokia:

    This post just says 20%, as if that's all Nokia phones. Then if you go to the poster's original posting (as his link just goes to a previous post of his), you find that this is really only about the N97. Then if we click on the link, we get taken to the "reputable" hotmobilebuzz.com. There we find that these return rates are 1. sourced to "Mobile News." Can either davesw or solipsism tell me who the hell they are? 2. only apply to one carrier in the UK.



    Blackberry:

    This post says 35%-50%. One would think such an imprecise percentage would have aroused somebody's suspicions. I know that stuck out to me when I read it. Are these all Blackberrys? We don't know from this post. So we click through to davesw's original post, where it states that the Tour had a 50% return rate and the Storm was 35%-50%.



    On the Tour, the actual headline is: "Blackberry Tour facing 50% return rate?" Note the question mark. The articles source for this information is "an analyst." Who is he? What are his credentials? He is not identified in the article.



    On the Storm, the source of the original link is boygeniusreport.com. Yes, that's right, BGR. This is the same website that Apple fans are now attacking for paying money to some guy who supposedly had an e-mail conversation with Steve Jobs, but it now looks like he made all or part of it up - at least Apple is emphatically denying it. The article says that 3 "credible" (and this is BGR, so you can take that to the bank) sources of theirs claim the return rate is 35%-50%. Verizon (analagous to Apple in that they have the real numbers, not random speculation), claim in the article: "Verizon Wireless hit us up and here?s what a Verizon Wireless official had to say: ?The Storm has the lowest return rate of any of our PDAs and at this point in its life cycle, it has the lowest return rate of any PDA we currently sell.? Would davesw, solipsism, and jragosta be ticked if somebody attacking Apple ignored what Apple had to say? Of course. Did davesw include this information in his post? Of course not.



    I am willing to bet that return rates for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are much lower than these phones. I think Apple makes the best computers and phones on the market. I was an original iPhone owner in 2007 and then got the 3G. I switched to a Droid Incredible a few weeks ago ONLY because I could not stand another day with AT&T. I miss a ton about my iPhone.



    But, with all due respect, you guys are no better than the so-called "trolls" that you try and shut up wtih your half truths and attacks. Again I say, you are not helping Apple with these methods.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    There is a provided link in the post you quoted.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    Return Rate







    Nokia 20%



    Blackberry: 35-50%







    VERSUS







    iPhone 3GS 6%



    iPhone 4 1.77%





    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=111484



  • Reply 495 of 547
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Oh, looks like you're back on duty, now what day of the week is it?



    It's Monday, and it has been Monday for 16.5 hours
  • Reply 496 of 547
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Except mine is actually supported by facts.



    You're just pulling things out of the air. LIke you've been doing the entire time in this thread.



    Ha ha ha ha ha ha, man you are funny. All your posts here are just stuff pulled out of the air.
  • Reply 497 of 547
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    One, you are compare dissimilar things.

    Two, you ignore that this data from SquareTrade.

    Three, you ignore that fact that Apple is in the top ranking and has "better-than-average performance? than the overall total and total for premium notebooks.

    Four, you didn?t use any critical thinking in determining why one would use SquareTrade over AppleCare or if Mac longevity over non-Mac PCs is a contributing factor as to why a 2 or 3 year PC might not be "fixed? as often as a Mac.



    Can you please re-post this with the mistakes fixed, it is very difficult to read.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Case closed!



    Is that meant to be funny, it is something I would except from someone like you.
  • Reply 498 of 547
    shadashshadash Posts: 470member
    So there is no relationship between quality and customer satisfaction. You've had 2 Macs break. Are you satisfied? Your experience hasn't been my experience. I have a G4 Titanium PowerBook that I got in 2002 that is still running strong.



    But take a look at this survey from engadget again. First, the data on Apple is from SquareTrade. How many Apple computer users even know what that company is, much less buy a warranty from them?



    Even if we were to take the results of this survey at face value, how far off is Apple from the two ostensible leaders? Less than 2%.



    Maybe if I had had your experience, I might change my mind about Apple. But I think there are plenty of questions that should be raised about that survey.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Customer service quality, and engineering quality are two different things. If somethings breaks, and it is fixed well, and the customer is handled nicely they will give a higher customer service score.



    Here is one report from late last year, maybe they should have it referenced by retail price.



    http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/l...-win-hp-fails/



  • Reply 499 of 547
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Let's see. The range is 15.6% to 25.6% defects. Apple is at 17.4%. So, even on the surface, it doesn't support your claim.



    We are constantly told by people like you that Apple sells tonnes of expensive machines and all the other companies are selling cheap junk. If that is the case, why are the expensive machines at 17.4%? They are charging for quality, and not always producing it.
  • Reply 500 of 547
    bregaladbregalad Posts: 816member
    I have a cheap LG flip phone. Last month I was standing in a parking lot with 5 bars talking to my wife on our land line when the call dropped. I called her again and it dropped the moment she said hello. I looked at the phone it showed 5 bars. I walked across the parking lot, still 5 bars, and tried again. Again I barely got to say something about the previous call dropping before I realized I was talking to dead air again. Fourth time I walked across the street and finally I got to talk with her for a full minute.



    When I see only 1 bar I expect to have trouble placing or receiving a call, but solid unwavering 5 bars leads me to think the phone should work.
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