Nielson: Android flourished before iPhone 4, but Apple 'most desired'

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  • Reply 81 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davestall View Post


    You may also compare OS activations if you like which would include ipad, itouch and iphone for ois, and for android; well mostly phones. Android activations per day are significantly higher than ois activations. Apple is flat; android is in a steep growth curve. The end result is pretty obvious to me (and most analysis) unless apple makes a significant change to the "plan". Apples products are no longer better enough (or imho better at all) than the competition.



    Source for the first assertion above, please?



    In any case, as I mentioned initially, marketshare is second-bat to developers (who care how many users are buying), second-bat to a company (who cares about profitability and platform strength when the dust settles, and neither has to have any dominant tie to marketshare; especially not Apple), and utterly meaningless users (who care about the capability of their product to improve their lives in any number of ways). So to begin with you're basing all of your opinion here on a statistic that isn't relevant to end-user experience, company profitability, developer profitability, the proliferation of quality apps, product quality, or anything else of value. That is to say, a user who buys a cheap Android phone and never uses it to do anything other than work with its vanilla features (and there's a lot of them) contributes nothing of value to the platform—only to the company collecting their cellular service fees. And I could use your argument to suggest that Lexus makes utter trash because GM sells more cars.



    And finally, your jump taking this number to discuss product quality (as I initially mentioned above) is absurd. You're not really interested in understanding facts here, and probably don't even know much about the platform you're bashing anyway. I'd hazard a guess that, instead, you're supporting an argument simply because it is what you want to believe yourself.
  • Reply 82 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


    Source for the first assertion above, please?



    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...0&postcount=62
  • Reply 83 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


    Source for the first assertion above, please?



    In any case, as I mentioned initially, marketshare is second-bat to developers (who care how many users are buying), second-bat to a company (who cares about profitability and platform strength when the dust settles, and neither has to have any dominant tie to marketshare; especially not Apple), and utterly meaningless users (who care about the capability of their product to improve their lives in any number of ways). So to begin with you're basing all of your opinion here on a statistic that isn't relevant to end-user experience, company profitability, developer profitability, the proliferation of quality apps, product quality, or anything else of value. That is to say, a user who buys a cheap Android phone and never uses it to do anything other than work with its vanilla features (and there's a lot of them) contributes nothing of value to the platform?only to the company collecting their cellular service fees. And I could use your argument to suggest that Lexus makes utter trash because GM sells more cars.



    And finally, your jump taking this number to discuss product quality (as I initially mentioned above) is absurd. You're not really interested in understanding facts here, and probably don't even know much about the platform you're bashing anyway. I'd hazard a guess that, instead, you're supporting an argument simply because it is what you want to believe yourself.



    The activation data I quoted is available on any non apple technical blog.



    I had an iphone and though impressed with its packaging, loathed its limiting nature. You cant change anything. It is feature poor and clearly the worst cell phone of all smartphones. A great phone for those who want limited features. For the rest of us there are much better alternatives; which is what the market is showing.
  • Reply 84 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davestall View Post


    The activation data I quoted is available on any non apple technical blog.



    The Android piece linked above does not discuss Apple's non-phone numbers, which, to the best of my knowledge, are not available. So before you decide to draw dramatic blanket conclusions you should probably wait for all the facts. And regardless, I could repeat most everything I said above, which you ignored, again. I'll always be curious why someone like you wastes their time on a site like this.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davestall View Post


    I had an iphone and though impressed with its packaging, loathed its limiting nature. You cant change anything. It is feature poor and clearly the worst cell phone of all smartphones. A great phone for those who want limited features. For the rest of us there are much better alternatives; which is what the market is showing.



    Wow. Just, wow. I don't think you did.



    In any case, I think we're back to your responses speaking well enough for you.
  • Reply 85 of 126
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davestall View Post


    The activation data I quoted is available on any non apple technical blog.



    No, it wasn't. YOU claimed that Android activations were greater than all iDevices put together. The URL that was cited by another of the Android trolls (and which repeats the data that has been all over the web) compares only phones, not the rest of the iDevices (iPod Touch or iPad).



    So where's the evidence to back up your claim?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davestall View Post


    I had an iphone and though impressed with its packaging, loathed its limiting nature. You cant change anything. It is feature poor and clearly the worst cell phone of all smartphones. A great phone for those who want limited features. For the rest of us there are much better alternatives; which is what the market is showing.



    ROTFLMAO. So much for your ability to evaluate the product honestly:



    "You can't change anything"???? Are we supposed to believe that you are being objective when you start with such a blatant lie?



    "Feature poor"?? Yet it's the standard in the industry for being full-featured. It's what every other phone has tried to emulate. And if it's missing a given feature, there are 225,000 apps to give you what you need.



    Worst cell phone? Not according to Consumer Reports. Not according to ANY review I've seen. In fact, other than minor reception issues for a small number of users almost entirely using AT&T, it is widely reported as having the best cell phone reception of any modern phone.



    Thanks for proving beyond any doubt that you have no desire to let honesty and integrity be any part of your posting.
  • Reply 86 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


    The Android piece linked above does not discuss Apple's non-phone numbers, which, to the best of my knowledge, are not available.



    Since we're talking about activations and computers don't need to be activated, "non-phone" in this context means iPad. And we know that iPad numbers are far below iPhone numbers.



    So I'm willing to go out on a limb here: what will you bet me that when iPad numbers become available you can add those to the iPhone numbers cited above and it will exceed the number of Android activations over the same period?



    $50?

    $100?

    $1000?

    How certain are you?
  • Reply 87 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    No, it wasn't. YOU claimed that Android activations were greater than all iDevices put together. The URL that was cited by another of the Android trolls (and which repeats the data that has been all over the web) compares only phones, not the rest of the iDevices (iPod Touch or iPad).



    So where's the evidence to back up your claim?







    ROTFLMAO. So much for your ability to evaluate the product honestly:



    "You can't change anything"???? Are we supposed to believe that you are being objective when you start with such a blatant lie?



    "Feature poor"?? Yet it's the standard in the industry for being full-featured. It's what every other phone has tried to emulate. And if it's missing a given feature, there are 225,000 apps to give you what you need.



    Worst cell phone? Not according to Consumer Reports. Not according to ANY review I've seen. In fact, other than minor reception issues for a small number of users almost entirely using AT&T, it is widely reported as having the best cell phone reception of any modern phone.



    Thanks for proving beyond any doubt that you have no desire to let honesty and integrity be any part of your posting.



    Please google Activations, not Sales. IOS vs android activations has been in the news for quite some time. Not discussed here of course since it shows apple slipping further behind.



    Or; ignore the facts and instead believe what Steve Jobs tells you. The rest of the world will move on to superior products. (as the market indicates) Maybe Bill Gates will bail apple out AGAIN once iphone goes the way of the MAC.
  • Reply 88 of 126
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shadash View Post


    This is not how Apple operated in establishing dominance with the iPod. Otherwise we would not have the Shuffle, for example. Is the Mac the model for the iPhone or is the iPod?



    You are absolutely right... Apple needs to introduce the iPhone Mini/Nano/Micro/Pocket/Whatever already.
  • Reply 89 of 126
    Check out this and you'll see that Android is just about unstoppable.



    866% growth year over year compared to Apple's 61%.



    Iphone is "most desired"? Well, the real numbers aren't reflecting that at all.



    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2010/r2010081.html
  • Reply 90 of 126
    shadashshadash Posts: 470member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    ...it is widely reported as having the best cell phone reception of any modern phone.



    What is your evidence for this assertion?
  • Reply 91 of 126
    icyfogicyfog Posts: 338member
    Whew ... this is great news. Now the DOJ and the rest of the U.S. government can pursue RIM or Google for having a monopoly in the smartphone biz instead of Apple.
  • Reply 92 of 126
    gescomgescom Posts: 69member
    Quote:

    they are so fugly I wouldnt use them if they gave them to me free.



    Maybe that's the reason iphone OS not doing so well. Snobs think that bumper solution is fugly. How Bizarre.
  • Reply 93 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Let's put a little more flesh on these bones. Android sales represent over sixty (60) handsets. Android is just now gaining more sales? Really? 60+ handsets can ban together and claim victory? Really? Pick any Android based handset. Hell, pick any 10 handsets. Anyone trying to spin this as a win for Android ought to be ashamed of themselves.
  • Reply 94 of 126
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    Let's put a little more flesh on these bones. Android sales represent over sixty (60) handsets. Android is just now gaining more sales? Really? 60+ handsets can ban together and claim victory? Really? Pick any Android based handset. Hell, pick any 10 handsets. Anyone trying to spin this as a win for Android ought to be ashamed of themselves.



    But if those 60 handsets weren't good, then the public wouldn't be buying them at all and it wouldn't matter how many handsets were running Android. This also applies to the OEMs. If they didn't see any future in Android, then there wouldn't be 60 handsets on the market. Considering where Android came from with the G1 (RIP), I'd say that's a definite win. To be able to create an device and make it successful yourself (as Apple has done) is good. To create an OS and have other companies jumping onboard with their own support is just as good.



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe I've read a single article that says that Android's numbers are slipping. Maybe when/if ever the iPhone shows up on more carriers than AT&T (remember, the NPD numbers are US only). But until that day happens, Android will continue to rise.



    There is no "spin". People are buying Android phones and the OEMs are seeing this and releasing designs to try and fit everyone's tastes.
  • Reply 95 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    But if those 60 handsets weren't good, then the public wouldn't be buying them at all and it wouldn't matter how many handsets were running Android. This also applies to the OEMs. If they didn't see any future in Android, then there wouldn't be 60 handsets on the market. Considering where Android came from with the G1 (RIP), I'd say that's a definite win.



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe I've read a single article that says that Android's numbers are slipping. Maybe when/if ever the iPhone shows up on more carriers than AT&T (remember, the NPD numbers are US only). But until that day happens, Android will continue to rise.



    There is no "spin". People are buying Android phones and the OEMs are seeing this and releasing designs to try and fit everyone's tastes.



    I beg to differ. You are assuming that people are "buying" Android phones. That is only half true, as many Android phones are given away for free. People are "buying" iPhones. You have over sixty handsets, probably half of which are obtained for free, against the iPhone, and they are just now getting ahead. That is an embarrassment any way you look at it.
  • Reply 96 of 126
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    I beg to differ. You are assuming that people are "buying" Android phones. That is only half true, as many Android phones are given away for free. People are "buying" iPhones. You have over sixty handsets, probably half of which are obtained for free, against the iPhone, and they are just now getting ahead. That is an embarrassment any way you look at it.



    My assumption comes from the fact that many of the latest Android phones have sold out of stock within days of being released. If no one's "buying" them as you claim, then were are they disappearing to? Is there a secret organization somewhere buying them all to lock in a vault to keep the public from getting exposed to Android?



    Even though they're given away for "free", it's not really free. You still have to activate the phone and pay for the line. If it was truly free (no cost to the phone and line), then you would have a point. This also in a way supports my point. People are still choosing to go with these offers. Again, if Android really was a POS OS, then the people wouldn't choose to spend the extra money for the second line. They like it enough to agree to be locked in for 2 years for two lines and spend an many times the amount of the $199.99 they saved on the second phone in service fees. Successful marketing is successful marketing.



    Let me ask you this. If Apple allowed AT&T to do a BOGO offer on the iPhone 4 and that gave the iPhone numbers a booster shot in the arm, would you continue to discount those numbers like you do for Android phones?
  • Reply 97 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Even though they're given away for "free", it's not really free. You still have to activate the phone and pay for the line. ...



    That argument makes no sense as you have to activate and pay for any line. Those costs cancel out. Therefore, the only difference in what the end user pays is the up front cost of the phone. Free is no where near the same as $200-$300. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Let me ask you this. If Apple allowed AT&T to do a BOGO offer on the iPhone 4 and that gave the iPhone numbers a booster shot in the arm, would you continue to discount those numbers like you do for Android phones?



    No. But Apple will never need to give their phones away for free. You see, they make a product so compelling, people are willing to pay for it. Android is quickly becoming the choice of the lowest common denominator.



    By your standard, Nokia probably moves more phones than anyone in the world. You can practically get Nokia phones in cereal boxes. Once a phone is heavily discounted, or given away for free, it is no longer competing in the premium phone market.
  • Reply 98 of 126
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    That argument makes no sense as you have to activate and pay for any line. Those costs cancel out. Therefore, the only difference in what the end user pays is the up front cost of the phone. Free is no where near the same as $200-$300. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.



    Ok, that makes sense. But you're still crying fowl because the carriers decide to embrace capitalism. They picked the business model that best competed against the iPhone and found success in it. We can argue what makes up the numbers until we're both blue in the face, but at the end of the day, the numbers are what they are. If it means that in your opinion that makes Android a lesser success, then I guess that something I'll have to live with...



    Again, my original point was that going from the G1 days of Android being an "experiment" on T-Mobile to now being an international hit with the backing of multiple big-name OEMs makes Android a success no matter how you want to view the numbers.



    Quote:

    No. But Apple will never need to give their phones away for free. You see, they make a product so compelling, people are willing to pay for it. Android is quickly becoming the choice of the lowest common denominator.



    By your standard, Nokia probably moves more phones than anyone in the world. You can practically get Nokia phones in cereal boxes. Once a phone is heavily discounted, or given away for free, it is no longer competing in the premium phone market.



    And can you not say the same for Android devices? Sold out within days of release with no BOGO. People are still compelled to purchase Android devices. I will agree that Apple has gained a bit of a religious cult status, which leads to more people already wanting the iPhone. Android has the uphill fight here and it's doing quite well for itself against the odds.



    I personally don't use the price alone to determine how well a phone performs. If I get a device that I feel is in every way as good or better than the iPhone for 1/2 the cost, then who am I to say no to the savings?



    It may be your opinion that Android is for the lowest common denominator, but that lowest common denominator happens to be the majority of the people in the US, it seems. If the Android/iPhone market goes the way of the PC/Mac (which it seems to be), I'm happy to give you that slice of the "premium" market if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
  • Reply 99 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    That is only half true, as many Android phones are given away for free.



    What percentage of Android phone do you imagine were given away for "free"?



    And of those, how many were also activated without any charges at all?
  • Reply 100 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    [QUOTE=RationalTroll;1690062]What percentage of Android phone do you imagine were given away for "free"?/QUOTE]



    At least half of the phones that were on a BOGOF deal, plus all of the ones that were free on contract. How many is that? Don't know, but it is considerably more than what Apple has given away.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    What percentage of Android phone do you imagine were given away for "free"?



    And of those, how many were also activated without any charges at all?



    That question is just as stupid now as it was earlier. All phones are subject to activation fees and monthly service. Therefore, those fees do not enter into the price discussion as it is ubiquitous.



    No matter how you try to massage it, heavily discounting and giving away for free is not the same as selling a similar item. If carriers could sell all of the Android based phones they purchase at the full starting subsidy price, they would. They can't, so they discount and/or give them away. Yes, the carriers still make up the difference in contract fees, but they would rather SELL the phones.



    What a strange definition of "compete" the smartphone industry has invented. Since when does the cheap/free item compete with the premium item? I'm sure more people get their clothes from Wal Mart, and other discount stores rather than Sax Fifth Avenue. The number is even more lopsided when you include charities that give away clothes for free. But to my knowledge, that is not considered competition. They are not in the same category.



    Google tried to position Android devices in a competitive category with the iPhone. They failed miserably. Now, they are really competing with Nokia, and the rest of the bottom feeder industry. With a push into enterprise, workers may get free Android devices from their corporations. In that event, Android will provide stiff competition for RIM and WinMO. But Apple is still in the business of making and selling premium, high-end devices to end users.



    The top Android phone today will quickly race to the bottom as it has no staying power as a high-end, premium smartphone experience like the iPhone. One new model a year, and it holds its value and drawing power the whole time. Nothing competes with that.
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