Nielson: Android flourished before iPhone 4, but Apple 'most desired'

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  • Reply 101 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    What percentage of Android phone do you imagine were given away for "free"?



    At least half of the phones that were on a BOGOF deal, plus all of the ones that were free on contract. How many is that? Don't know, but it is considerably more than what Apple has given away.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    And of those, how many were also activated without any charges at all?



    That question is just as stupid now as it was earlier. All phones are subject to activation fees and monthly service. Therefore, those fees do not enter into the price discussion as it is ubiquitous.



    No matter how you try to massage it, heavily discounting and giving away for free is not the same as selling a similar item. If carriers could sell all of the Android based phones they purchase at the full starting subsidy price, they would. They can't, so they discount and/or give them away. Yes, the carriers still make up the difference in contract fees, but they would rather SELL the phones.



    What a strange definition of "compete" the smartphone industry has invented. Since when does the cheap/free item compete with the premium item? I'm sure more people get their clothes from Wal Mart, and other discount stores rather than Sax Fifth Avenue. The number is even more lopsided when you include charities that give away clothes for free. But to my knowledge, that is not considered competition. They are not in the same category.



    Google tried to position Android devices in a competitive category with the iPhone. They failed miserably. Now, they are really competing with Nokia, and the rest of the bottom feeder industry. With a push into enterprise, workers may get free Android devices from their corporations. In that event, Android will provide stiff competition for RIM and WinMO. But Apple is still in the business of making and selling premium, high-end devices to end users.



    The top Android phone today will quickly race to the bottom as it has no staying power as a high-end, premium smartphone experience like the iPhone. One new model a year, and it holds its value and drawing power the whole time. Nothing competes with that.
  • Reply 102 of 126
    brettfbrettf Posts: 13member
    Wow, oh my...



    I am not a Apple Hater, Google Hater, or Microsoft Hater. Heck, the only one I truly hate is Blackberry. But the majority of these rants are well crap.



    I own an iPad w/Wifi. It is a great little device. Love to read emails, surf "basic" webpages, and a few games.



    I also own a Nexus One. My nifty little Nexus One provides the internet access to my iPad on the go. Its a neat trick, and don't bother checking. None of your iPhones (even the ones with iOS4) can do it unless you "break the rules".



    My Nexus One also provides voice navigation, doubles as a memory stick, works with Adobe Flash, offers true multitasking, is expandable in both memory/battery, has a nifty car and desktop dock w/seperate home screens. All cool stuff... oh and I can replace my desktop UI if I decide to do so. Of course, I can also use the stock one with widgets, animated wallpapers, shortcuts to tasks (e.g. disable Wifi), among other things.



    In a nutshell. It is not a POS, nor are the far superior Android devices that have been released since January. You all can live in your own little bubble all you want, but this is 100% exactly what happen with Windows/Mac about 20 years ago. The only difference? Andriod is free, whereas OEMs had to pay for Windows.



    Sure you guys have a few better games. I play them on my iPad . That is about it though. And deny it all you want, but ultimately the developers are going to go with the winning team (hint: it ain't going to be Apple).



    And for the morons who don't think Android devices sell unless given away? Well you guys are just crazy. All the hot devices sell out at full retail price. Interesting fact, there is a new "hot" device about once a month.



    And yes, the comments about activations are right. In fact, if you quote Mr. Tim from his Shareholders call you could sum up all Mac Purchases and iOS Platform Purchases and still not hit the number of activations that Android have on an average day (according to their own press releases).



    No worries... you guys were happy in 1994-95, right?
  • Reply 103 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    Google tried to position Android devices in a competitive category with the iPhone. They failed miserably.



    no they didn't, they're kicking ass. Just like the iphone, and rim. Now you may (and I) may think the iphone is the best one, and feel proud we -paid- more for our phone than say a hapless android user did, but that doesn't mean android isn't competing effectively with the iphone at all.



    that's nonsense.



    Sure, you can compare android to walmart all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that android, regardless of wether it has an upfront cost of 2 or 300 bucks upfront or not, is competing quite well.



    I'm glad to see apple, and competition doing well. I'm not interested in either one of them becoming dominant enough to control content.
  • Reply 104 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Sure, you can compare android to walmart all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that android, regardless of wether it has an upfront cost of 2 or 300 bucks upfront or not, is competing quite well.



    There you go again with that strange definition of "competing." I keep hearing about Mac v. Windows redux. Hmmm... Which PC competes with the 27" i5 iMac? Is it the Dell XPS 24Z Turbo whatever the hell they're calling them these days? Perhaps it is the HP KIRF of the week special. No. When people make those bogus comparisons, they are talking about all of the Windows PC desktop machines versus the iMac line. Absurd!



    The same thing is happening in the smartphone arena. Companies quickly discovered they could never compete with Apple on a head to head basis. So instead, people talk about ALL Android phones versus the iPhone. Competition at its finest.



    Tell me again, which Android phone did you want to hold up as sales competition to the iPhone? Which ten? No? Then we're not actually talking about competition, are we?
  • Reply 105 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    There you go again with that strange definition of "competing." I keep hearing about Mac v. Windows redux. Hmmm... Which PC competes with the 27" i5 iMac? Is it the Dell XPS 24Z Turbo whatever the hell they're calling them these days? Perhaps it is the HP KIRF of the week special. No. When people make those bogus comparisons, they are talking about all of the Windows PC desktop machines versus the iMac line. Absurd!



    The same thing is happening in the smartphone arena. Companies quickly discovered they could never compete with Apple on a head to head basis. So instead, people talk about ALL Android phones versus the iPhone. Competition at its finest.



    Tell me again, which Android phone did you want to hold up as sales competition to the iPhone? Which ten? No? Then we're not actually talking about competition, are we?



    I'm not asianBob. And don't go in circles.



    I'm not talking about the 27" iMac, that's another conversation altogether. I'm not aware of anything that comes close that machine in the PC world.



    I don't care what you think, of the competition, it is competition, and it's doing very well. I may think iPhones are as superior as much as I like, but Android is competing very well, despite being different in that it's on many different handsets.
  • Reply 106 of 126
    chopperchopper Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    Yes, the carriers still make up the difference in contract fees, but they would rather SELL the phones.



    Apple is still in the business of making and selling premium, high-end devices to end users.



    One new model a year, and it holds its value and drawing power the whole time. Nothing competes with that.



    My carrier was happy to give me my 3Gs for "free" in return for me agreeing to 2 years with them. They might rather have sold me my phone for NZ$200, but since they couldn't they settled for what probably seemed a better deal than losing me to the opposition.



    A funny thing about that "premium" thing - if the consumer's perception is that there's little or no difference between the products, the perception of premium disappears. So Apple will retain its premium perception so long as it can provide a credible justification in the consumer's mind. If it cannot do so, as in its features and benefits become indistinguishable in the consumer's perception with less expensive yet competitive products, then Apple will inevitably lose its premium status to a segment of its audience and potential audience.



    When virtually monthly there are new competitors' smartphones appearing with the latest and greatest in features and benefits, the iPhone is in danger of looking "old hat" between refreshes, so your assumed benefit of being 'current' for longer may well be an achilles's heel.



    Speculation perhaps, but we'll be seeing that soon enough. There are many examples historically where a premium brand became a mainstream or even budget brand over time. I'm happy with the deal I did for my 3Gs now, but I don't know if I'll still feel that way when my contract runs out.



    The smartphone sector has become a very exciting place lately, and long may that continue.
  • Reply 107 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    I'm not asianBob.



    I based my reply on the argument, not the username. No offense intended.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    I'm not talking about the 27" iMac, that's another conversation altogether. I'm not aware of anything that comes close that machine in the PC world.



    I think it is an appropriate example and stand by it. What's happening in the two product categories is very similar, so much so that some in this thread have referred to the PC market to make their point. I am just pointing out that the argument actually works in favor of Apple, just like the iPhone v. Android arguments being tossed about.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    I don't care what you think, of the competition, it is competition, and it's doing very well.



    Please tell me how you define competition. Would a game of amateur basketball be fair competition if one side had ten professional athletes on the floor?



    Two kids go into a neighborhood to sell newspapers. One kid sells to half the people in the neighborhood, a subscription that costs $3 per week. The other kid, with the help of several friends, moves twice as many subscriptions by giving away free papers for a local rag. The first kid is selling the New York Times, (what a deal), the second kid is dropping off a free, weekly circular. Competition? Not by my way of reckoning.



    I will say it again: There is no "competitor" within shouting distance of the iPhone. Go ahead, pick your champion... Hell, pick any ten champions. Currently, it takes over sixty to get to what you think of as competition.
  • Reply 108 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    I based my reply on the argument, not the username. No offense intended.







    I think it is an appropriate example and stand by it. What's happening in the two product categories is very similar, so much so that some in this thread have referred to the PC market to make their point. I am just pointing out that the argument actually works in favor of Apple, just like the iPhone v. Android arguments being tossed about.



    And I don't think it is at all. Apple has the imac, the mini, the mac pro, 3 different macbook pros, a macbook air, etc etc (did I mis any?)



    We're talking the smartphone. Period. Yes Android is on several, of varying quality. SOme not bad, a couple, very good. Depending on your opinions.





    Quote:

    Please tell me how you define competition. Would a game of amateur basketball be fair competition if one side had ten professional athletes on the floor?



    Why the definition is very simple. Both Android, and Apple offer smartphones. You can split hairs, and go around in circles all you like, apple makes theirs, google doesn't, apple makes one android is on 10, Apple is better, around around around you go. They're both smartphones, very similar in what they do, and offer, and consumers buy each product to do pretty much the same thing. So I don't know what you're really arguing about here.



    Quote:

    Two kids go into a neighborhood to sell newspapers. One kid sells to half the people in the neighborhood, a subscription that costs $3 per week. The other kid, with the help of several friends, moves twice as many subscriptions by giving away free papers for a local rag. The first kid is selling the New York Times, (what a deal), the second kid is dropping off a free, weekly circular. Competition? Not by my way of reckoning.



    It isn't free. There is a difference as far as the upfront cost is, but once you pay that 200 bucks or whatever, you're paying through the nose for a voice data plan for likely 3 years. I've had my iphone for over 2 years now, I'm paying 105/month for mine. I've forgotten all about whether I paid 200 bucks at the start or not. Red herring. You analogy is silly.



    Quote:

    I will say it again: There is no "competitor" within shouting distance of the iPhone. Go ahead, pick your champion... Hell, pick any ten champions. Currently, it takes over sixty to get to what you think of as competition.



    That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But it doesn't erase the fact that Android, whether it's shit, or not, is capturing a huge percentage, very quickly. So yes, it -is-, competition.



    I think all of them, the iphones, droids, and balckberrys, need stiff competition, the keep it rolling for consumers. We win.





    I've weathered over a decade of dominance from one company as far as a computing platform goes, and I'm not interested in another, even, Apple, despite the fact they are my choice, of platforms.
  • Reply 109 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    That's your opinion



    No, it's not. I am talking about sales, not about a subjective measure of which is better. There is no Android phone that competes with the iPhone. The last report I read said the Android numbers include 60 handsets. That was before the Galaxy release.



    You keep wanting to compare sales numbers even though the business models are completely different. Go ahead. What Android phone compares to iPhone in the market? Please tell me what you are comparing to what. Otherwise, you are just trying to spin this into an Android victory when it should be an Android embarrassment.
  • Reply 110 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    No, it's not. I am talking about sales, not about a subjective measure of which is better. There is no Android phone that competes with the iPhone. The last report I read said the Android numbers include 60 handsets. That was before the Galaxy release.



    You keep wanting to compare sales numbers even though the business models are completely different. Go ahead. What Android phone compares to iPhone in the market? Please tell me what you are comparing to what. Otherwise, you are just trying to spin this into an Android victory when it should be an Android embarrassment.



    That's all you're arguing about? Apple is one phone, and Android on several?



    Gee this sound familiar. Perhaps you'll argue microsoft didn't compete with apple or, doesn't. Brainless.



    But it sounds to me, you're just looking for a reason why your choice is superior. There's no need to argue this here. But you need to I guess.



    As I said. They're both smartphones, they do very similar things, and are for sale in the same country.



    Done. Enjoy your merry go round.
  • Reply 111 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    That's all you're arguing about? Apple is one phone, and Android on several?



    Isn't that enough? You keep saying that they are "both" smartphones. What is the "both" you keep referring to? The iPhone vs. what? To compare the sales numbers of one phone to the sales numbers of sixty + phones running several versions of a free OS is not a comparison worth anything. There is no "both."



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    Gee this sound familiar. Perhaps you'll argue microsoft didn't compete with apple or, doesn't.



    I do argue just that. Apple makes computers; MS doesn't. A better comparison would be Apple's MBP vs. HP's Envy KIRF. Now, that is competition. But that type of comparison makes the PC industry look stupid, so the MBP is "compared" to ALL Windows based notebooks.



    All I am calling for is that we compare "like" things. That is the sort of thing we learn in preschool. We say, "My dad is bigger than your dad!" not, "My family is bigger than your dad!" The latter would be absurd, even for a kindergartner. This whole thread, indeed, this whole meme of comparing the iPhone (phone) sales to Android (system of phones) sales is completely absurd. It is about time people with sense quit letting Android spinners get away with shaping the conversation by letting these ridiculous arguments pass.
  • Reply 112 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    Isn't that enough? You keep saying that they are "both" smartphones. What is the "both" you keep referring to? The iPhone vs. what? To compare the sales numbers of one phone to the sales numbers of sixty + phones running several versions of a free OS is not a comparison worth anything. There is no "both."







    I do argue just that. Apple makes computers; MS doesn't. A better comparison would be Apple's MBP vs. HP's Envy KIRF. Now, that is competition. But that type of comparison makes the PC industry look stupid, so the MBP is "compared" to ALL Windows based notebooks.



    All I am calling for is that we compare "like" things. That is the sort of thing we learn in preschool. We say, "My dad is bigger than your dad!" not, "My family is bigger than your dad!" The latter would be absurd, even for a kindergartner. This whole thread, indeed, this whole meme of comparing the iPhone (phone) sales to Android (system of phones) sales is completely absurd. It is about time people with sense quit letting Android spinners get away with shaping the conversation by letting these ridiculous arguments pass.



    it's absurd because you don't like it. But the real truth is, despite the platform differences, it's an entry on the smartphone list that is grabbing significant marketshare, just as is the iphone.



    I suppose apple was whacked when it did it's mac vs pc ads eh?



    LOL.
  • Reply 113 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    it's absurd because you don't like it. But the real truth is, despite the platform differences, it's an entry on the smartphone list that is grabbing significant marketshare, just as is the iphone.



    I suppose apple was whacked when it did it's mac vs pc ads eh?



    LOL.



    I thought you were done.



    What's an entry on the smartphone list? You say "it," but you mean "they.'



    As for the Mac v. PC ads... You do realize those were qualitative comparisons, not quantitative, right. I think it is perfectly fair to talk about the competitive "qualitative" aspects of iOS v. Android. That is not what we are discussing. We are talking about numbers of units sold. That only makes sense when comparing one item to another like item. MBP to ENVY. iPhone to Droid X. See how that works.
  • Reply 114 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    I thought you were done.



    What's an entry on the smartphone list? You say "it," but you mean "they.'



    As for the Mac v. PC ads... You do realize those were qualitative comparisons, not quantitative, right. I think it is perfectly fair to talk about the competitive "qualitative" aspects of iOS v. Android. That is not what we are discussing. We are talking about numbers of units sold. That only makes sense when comparing one item to another like item. MBP to ENVY. iPhone to Droid X. See how that works.



    holy anal retentive batman.



    Who CARES. Android, whether 'quaility', or 'quantity', is presenting itself good competition.



    I addressed your silly notion that Android has failed to be real competition to the iPhone. I never spoke of sales, and now you are going around merry go rounds. Seems many do that.



    And it seems Steve Jobs very much disagrees with you too.

  • Reply 115 of 126
    now, I know you like merry go rounds, and you'll go in circles for whatever reason. It's a mystery as to what you're really arguing here really, because, you asserted that Android, FAILED to give the iphone any real competition.



    This, is brainless. Any halfwit can see, that android -is- provideing good competition, as is RIM. I dn't care if you yell that android is on many devices and iphone is one. Irrelevant. The very existence and significance of the mac vs. pc ads, laugh in your face.



    You simply love the iPhone, and that's fine! But to say Android is not competition to the iphone, or to rim, or nokia, is the most brainless thing I've read in this thread.



    (well, almost.)

  • Reply 116 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Echoing earlier NPD figures, newly released research from Nielsen shows that all of the vendors of Android-based phones put together outsold Apple's iPhone within the US in the quarter prior to the launch of iPhone 4.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    holy anal retentive batman.



    Who CARES.



    I take it you read the opening post in this thread. The first paragraph sets the stage. This is about comparing sales numbers. What are you on about? Apparently, you don't care to engage in a discussion about competitive sales numbers. I don't blame you. They don't look good for any one, ten, thirty, or fifty Android devices. Let's just stick with the whole Android as a platform is outselling the iPhone as a device theme. As long as we don't look at the details and avoid any meaningful sales comparisons, then you're absolutely right; Android is kicking butt.



    Fell better, Robin?
  • Reply 117 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    I take it you read the opening post in this thread. The first paragraph sets the stage. This is about comparing sales numbers. What are you on about? Apparently, you don't care to engage in a discussion about competitive sales numbers. I don't blame you. They don't look good for any one, ten, thirty, or fifty Android devices. Let's just stick with the whole Android as a platform is outselling the iPhone as a device theme. As long as we don't look at the details and avoid any meaningful sales comparisons, then you're absolutely right; Android is kicking butt.



    Fell better, Robin?



    I addressed your stupid notion that Android failed to provide competition. Period.



    Not the original post. Try to not go in circles k?
  • Reply 118 of 126
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    I addressed your stupid notion that Android failed to provide competition. Period.



    Not the original post. Try to not go in circles k?



    No Android phone provides any significant competition to the iPhone. Please indicate my error. Has the market proven me wrong? Name the phone. Well, I think any readers of this thread have enough information to see both our points.
  • Reply 119 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    No Android phone provides any significant competition to the iPhone. Please indicate my error. Has the market proven me wrong? Name the phone. Well, I think any readers of this thread have enough information to see both our points.



    you don't get it do you?



    I guess the mac vs pc ads go right over your head. But you'll come up with some bullshit excuse over that.



    It's about the platform. If Android ceased to exist, so would that platform, and consumers would choose another, possibly iphones or RIM.



    Apple users talk about how it's all about the platform, not just the machine. PC heads always yammer on about their processor, the upgradabilty of the video card, blah blah, the hardware. You're making the same mistake.



    It's about the platform. Period. Surly this is easy to see.



    Iphones, are just nice pieces of hardware, but the platform, the iOS etc., is really what makes the platform rock. It doesn't mater if there is one iphone, or 5.
  • Reply 120 of 126
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    you don't get it do you?



    I guess the mac vs pc ads go right over your head. But you'll come up with some bullshit excuse over that.



    It's about the platform. If Android ceased to exist, so would that platform, and consumers would choose another, possibly iphones or RIM.



    Apple users talk about how it's all about the platform, not just the machine. PC heads always yammer on about their processor, the upgradabilty of the video card, blah blah, the hardware. You're making the same mistake.



    It's about the platform. Period. Surly this is easy to see.



    Iphones, are just nice pieces of hardware, but the platform, the iOS etc., is really what makes the platform rock. It doesn't mater if there is one iphone, or 5.



    Exactly. Google picked a different philosophy to Apple. Apple wants to make a single smartphone device for their iOS platform. Good. Google wanted to make their software available "for the masses", so to speak, instead.



    So Google doesn't absolutely need to have a single item outsell the iPhone to have the Android platform be a success. Like I've been saying for a while now, the fact that Android is being picked up by however many dozens of companies as the OS of choice for their products (be it smartphones, tablets, refrigerators, toasters, academic research devices) is success enough in itself.



    When Android first came out, my college roommate wanted to program for it as a hobby. I saw it as yet another Linux experiment and kind of laughed at him a bit for it. Fast forward a few years and I've had to eat my words because I'm now carrying it on my phone.
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