Piracy problems undermine Android's growth against iPhone

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  • Reply 121 of 217
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,924member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shawnb View Post


    The article is just as substantive and factual as the AI article.



    We are not currently discussing the AI article. We are discussing your baseless assertion. So, just to restate the obvious, your assertion that piracy on iOS is as common as it is on Android is utterly without any supporting evidence of any kind. OK, glad we cleared that up.
  • Reply 122 of 217
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    Note to Developers:



    Android users are Cheap Penny Pinching Freeloaders. They don't buy Apps.









    There is no money in ANDROID.







    Report: 98.9% Of Downloads On The Android Market Are Free



    http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2010/03...989-free-apps/



    Android Market a haven for cheapskates



    http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...en_cheapskates



    Male Android Cheapskates To Dominate Mobile Market



    http://phandroid.com/2010/02/27/male...mobile-market/















    this is 100% true.
  • Reply 123 of 217
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post




    If the platform is as golden as you and the other fanboys keep claiming in here, where is the money? Where are the hoards of devs abandoning Apple app store to dev only for Android? Non-existent? Of course. You get a nice body of cross-over dev work - as they port their apps to Android AS WELL (not exclusively), because they want wider exposure - but if Google ever tried to insist on exclusivity by the devs - they would be laughed at! The Android app monetization for devs is pathetically underdeveloped and not functionally improving in the near-term.

    .





    If you're asking ME where the money is, you never read any of my posts. I've talked about that in most of my posts.



    So you can either actually read what's going on before responding, or you can shut up.
  • Reply 124 of 217
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    people buy iPhone's because they love it. <== LOVE





    people buy Android phones because they hate the iPhone. <== JEALOUSY, HATRED, IGNORANCE
  • Reply 125 of 217
    shawnbshawnb Posts: 155member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    We are not currently discussing the AI article. We are discussing your baseless assertion. So, just to restate the obvious, your assertion that piracy on iOS is as common as it is on Android is utterly without any supporting evidence of any kind. OK, glad we cleared that up.



    I'm not sure how much simpler it can be explained. Developer sells 10 copies of app with "phone home" function. Developer gets pings from 100 unique devices. Five different, independent developers report similar results. How is that baseless?
  • Reply 126 of 217
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    people buy iPhone's because they love it. <== LOVE





    people buy Android phones because they hate the iPhone. <== JEALOUSY, HATRED, IGNORANCE



    another lie.



    wasting more words on you is pointless, since you can't read so we'll leave it at that.
  • Reply 127 of 217
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,924member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shawnb View Post


    I'm not sure how much simpler it can be explained. Developer sells 10 copies of app with "phone home" function. Developer gets pings from 100 unique devices. Five different, independent developers report similar results. How is that baseless?



    How many iOS devices do legitimate users of these apps own? Is this experience representative of all App Store developers or simply an anecdotal report from an unrepresentative sample? Did this sample present confirmed numbers or were these just casual reports? How does this compare with Android piracy rates? How reliable is the source of this report: what's their track record on this sort of analysis? What other reports are there that corroborate this? And so on, and so on, and so on...



    Clearly you aren't very discerning when it comes to evaluating information. Since this seems to constitute your only evidence, since it's uncorroborated, since it isn't based on a reliable survey, it's baseless.
  • Reply 128 of 217
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    There is no "legalized" jailbreaking - it was a frik'n person at the library of congress that said it is legal and this is bound to get overturned. When jailbreaking breaks the security of the device, people will be screaming.



    It seems to me that anyone who sets out to alter their device in a way that gives them more control over it than they had when they bought it knows or should know that doing so may involve some level of security risk to the device. They choose to do so anyway.



    It's analogous to saying that it shouldn't be legal to make any modifications to your vehicle because they might compromise safety. Putting 18" low profile tires on a car that came with 15" standard profiles will clearly change the driving dynamics of the vehicle and could ostensibly make it "less safe". But the kinds of people who do that to their cars understand and accept those risks, and it's their right to choose.



    When I paid Apple $540 for my iPad, I got a piece of metal and glass and some intellectual engineering with it. Now Apple's opinion is that if I use this thing in any way other than their people imagined and allowed that I would, that I am automatically a criminal. The Library of Congress disagrees, and I choose to disagree right with them.
  • Reply 129 of 217
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rind View Post


    Please , Go to the Android Sites. Tell them the same thing.

    Tell them to stop posting about the iPhone and completely ignoring the truth.

    A few examples are below:

    Phandroid

    ancroidcentral

    droidforums.net



    The Phone bashing is really getting out of control its sad that people just read

    something on a forum and dont look at the device themselves.

    I am using an iPhone 3G now but migrating to a Droid X simply becuase we are moving to Verizon.

    Im really Hoping the iPhone makes its way to Verizon.



    I read Android Central every day. the ONLY time they post apple releated news is when it directly has something to do with android (aka, apple's antennagate video responses, or ads android makers take out about the iPhone).



    AC editor is part of a network of blogs, including theiphoneblog and so occasionally they cross post something TiPB posts, but they've NEVER posted an article directly about iOS with no real links back to android.



    Droidforums are FORUMS, not a news site.



    Phandroid:

    http://phandroid.com/?s=apple



    They posted an article about someone changing the wallpapers in an apple store, a post about a new tshirt design (any v apple, and posts on applevandroid sales



    Again, NOTHING like the trash coming from this site in the past few days. Apple insider is posting ANDROID news with spin headlines to paint it in the worst light possible, and they're not doing it to highlights movements of iOS but rather a lame attempt to prove superiority. This is completely different from the news sites you posted.



    Please point out posts to me where they're posting against apple while ignoring the truth.
  • Reply 130 of 217
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    How many iOS devices do legitimate users of these apps own? Is this experience representative of all App Store developers or simply an anecdotal report from an unrepresentative sample? Did this sample present confirmed numbers or were these just casual reports? How does this compare with Android piracy rates? How reliable is the source of this report: what's their track record on this sort of analysis? What other reports are there that corroborate this? And so on, and so on, and so on...



    Clearly you aren't very discerning when it comes to evaluating information. Since this seems to constitute your only evidence, since it's uncorroborated, since it isn't based on a reliable survey, it's baseless.



    you mean how the article who's comments you're posting in is based off of a SINGLE app developer, about a SINGLE app, without any confirmed numbers from Google or a third party to back up these rates? How reliable is the source of this report: What's their track record on this sort of analysis? What other reports are there that corroborate this? And so on, and so on, and so on...



    Clearly you arn't very discerning when it comes to evaluating information. Since this seems to constitute your only evidence, since it's uncorroborated, since it isn't based on a reliable survey, it's baseless.







    And yet you're here defending it. The app store piracy article at least had over 5 developers (who weren't related in any way) backing up the SAME data, most likely using the SAME coding to get the data as the android developer you're holding onto so dearly.
  • Reply 131 of 217
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    another lie.



    wasting more words on you is pointless, since you can't read so we'll leave it at that.



    it's not a lie. it's the truth. iPhone owners are more loyal than Android users to their phones.



    No other manufacturer can claim nearly the loyalty of iPhone owners. RIM (RIMM) BlackBerry owners see a touch-screen device as the antithesis of their hard keyboards. However, even in this category, 23 percent of respondents plan to buy an Apple iPhone. We see similar results with all other mobile phone owners. In fact, 36 percent of Google (GOOG)-branded Android phone owners say they plan to buy an iPhone, surpassing the 32 percent of Google-branded phone owners who intend to buy another Android phone.





    http://seekingalpha.com/article/2165...lty-statistics
  • Reply 132 of 217
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,924member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    you mean how the article who's comments you're posting in is based off of a SINGLE app developer, about a SINGLE app, without any confirmed numbers from Google or a third party to back up these rates? How reliable is the source of this report: What's their track record on this sort of analysis? What other reports are there that corroborate this? And so on, and so on, and so on...



    Clearly you arn't very discerning when it comes to evaluating information. Since this seems to constitute your only evidence, since it's uncorroborated, since it isn't based on a reliable survey, it's baseless.







    And yet you're here defending it. The app store piracy article at least had over 5 developers (who weren't related in any way) backing up the SAME data, most likely using the SAME coding to get the data as the android developer you're holding onto so dearly.



    Have you been drinking? Your post would seem to be a non sequitur in response to mine. It's certainly irrelevant to the criticisms I've made of other posts.
  • Reply 133 of 217
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    it's not a lie. it's the truth. iPhone owners are more loyal than Android users to their phones.



    No other manufacturer can claim nearly the loyalty of iPhone owners. RIM (RIMM) BlackBerry owners see a touch-screen device as the antithesis of their hard keyboards. However, even in this category, 23 percent of respondents plan to buy an Apple iPhone. We see similar results with all other mobile phone owners. In fact, 36 percent of Google (GOOG)-branded Android phone owners say they plan to buy an iPhone, surpassing the 32 percent of Google-branded phone owners who intend to buy another Android phone.





    http://seekingalpha.com/article/2165...lty-statistics



    That link has NOTHING to do with why they bought android in the first place (what I called a lie)



    Posting links at the end of your statements only makes them more valid if the links actually have anything to do with what you're talking about.



    On top of that, it's basically ONLY for Nexus One owners. Read the article



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by seeking alpha


    So what is the right statistic for Android owners? The honest answer is that we don’t know. You’ll note in the excerpt above, we were careful to say “Google-branded Android phone owners.” That’s because our data keys on the manufacturer of the phone as the way to determine what type of phone a consumer owns. Because all non-Google Android brands make phones using other operating systems, Google-branded phones are the only ones we can be certain run Android. However, restricting ourselves to that category means that we leave out a big segment of Android owners, specifically those who own Motorola (MOT) Droids and HTC (HTC) EVOs among others. Clearly these owners may have differing future buying preferences, but our survey is unable to differentiate those Android phone owners from non-Android phones made by those manufacturers.



    So they are discounting the Droid, Droid incredible, HTC Evo, all the Tmobile phones, etc. Aka well over 90% of the android user base.
  • Reply 134 of 217
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Have you been drinking? Your post would seem to be a non sequitur in response to mine. It's certainly irrelevant to the criticisms I've made of other posts.



    I intentionally copied your post to show how your SAME arguments can apply to this article, and this article has even LESS backing it up than the data you're trying to discount.



    This article is citing a SINGLE developer, using his own call home techniques in a SINGLE app.



    The post you are trying to discredit has 5+ developers all saying the same thing.



    So if the post with FIVE developers isn't a wide enough sample, the post about a SINGLE APP isn't a wide enough sample.



    So the post of yours I responded to (aka, your post) is completely irrelevant to the discussion since if we accept it it invalidates this entire article. Savvy? I don't care about your other posts. I was responding to ONE post.
  • Reply 135 of 217
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    That link has NOTHING to do with why they bought android in the first place (what I called a lie)



    Posting links at the end of your statements only makes them more valid if the links actually have anything to do with what you're talking about.





    you know why i know Android users are jealous of iPhone users?





    You're IN AN APPLE FORUM! what the hell are you doing here?? go to an Android forum and leave us alone you troll.
  • Reply 136 of 217
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,924member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    I intentionally copied your post to show how your SAME arguments can apply to this article, and this article has even LESS backing it up than the data you're trying to discount.



    This article is citing a SINGLE developer, using his own call home techniques in a SINGLE app.



    The post you are trying to discredit has 5+ developers all saying the same thing.



    So if the post with FIVE developers isn't a wide enough sample, the post about a SINGLE APP isn't a wide enough sample.



    So the post of yours I responded to (aka, your post) is completely irrelevant to the discussion since if we accept it it invalidates this entire article. Savvy? I don't care about your other posts. I was responding to ONE post.



    You didn't answer my question, but I think I know the answer. As I said, your posts are entirely irrelevant to my particular criticisms, so, even if we accept that you think you were responding to one of them, you really weren't.
  • Reply 137 of 217
    shawnbshawnb Posts: 155member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    How many iOS devices do legitimate users of these apps own?



    While not precisely known, common sense would indicate probably not ten.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Is this experience representative of all App Store developers or simply an anecdotal report from an unrepresentative sample?



    Since the piracy is possible due to a systematic weakness in the "closed" ecosystem (i.e. easily stripped DRM and easily "opened" devices) and not developer-specific code, it is reasonable to assume that ANY app could be pirated.



    As stated before, one can briefly browse any of the jailbreak-oriented app "stores" and surmise without scientific analysis that the vast majority of paid apps are illegally available.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Did this sample present confirmed numbers or were these just casual reports?



    If by "confirmed" you mean that each user was personally tracked down, interviewed, and asked to sign an affidavit confirming the legitimacy of their application; then, no. However, I would not consider a systematic, code-based tracking system "casual reports".



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    How does this compare with Android piracy rates?



    Despite the "rampant" nature of Android piracy, only one (1) developer has published anecdotal, unconfirmed, uncorroborated statistics.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    How reliable is the source of this report: what's their track record on this sort of analysis? What other reports are there that corroborate this?



    The "source" is quoting numbers provided by the developers. As with the AI article, there is one "source" and dozens of other blog articles quoting the one source. However, with the AI article, there is one developer involved; compared with five iOS developers. To my knowledge, none of the six developers have released the IP addresses of each phone-home so that the data can be independently audited. There is also no evidence that the developers have falsified data.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Clearly you aren't very discerning when it comes to evaluating information. Since this seems to constitute your only evidence, since it's uncorroborated, since it isn't based on a reliable survey, it's baseless.



    You blew it off the last time I said this, but the exact same thing could be said about the AI article. At least I am willing to consider all sides of the argument and admit that neither platform is perfect. You hold opposing viewpoints to standards that clearly invalidate your own viewpoints.
  • Reply 138 of 217
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,924member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shawnb View Post


    While not precisely known... You hold opposing viewpoints to standards that clearly invalidate your own viewpoints.



    I won't even bother to address your points in detail. The important point to be made regarding your latest response is that your assertion that piracy is just as common on Android as on iOS is nothing but wild, perhaps hopeful, conjecture on your part. And your conjectures don't even extend to establishing your "just as common" point. Seriously, you Android boys need to learn some basic reasoning skills, or lay off the wild, unsubstantiated comments.
  • Reply 139 of 217
    orlandoorlando Posts: 601member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    Excuse me but who the FK are you? The thought police? (No - I expect a paid shill.) The public needs to be informed about these issues as they are key competitors to Apple trying to steal their customers away, and by trying to copy everything that apple does. The fact of the matter is that even apple users need to be armed with the facts to be able to counter all the mis-information out there, and to evaluate these issues themselves since everyone is trying pile it on apple right now - like the absolutely ridiculous media feeding frenzy over the non-existant "antennagate". Further, the truth of the matter is that Google is the new evil...



    Who am I? I am an iPhone owner who believes the iPhone is the best smartphone on the market and we don't need to go negative to win the argument. Just put it side by side with any android phone, talk about the merits of both platforms, and the iPhone will win.



    All that going negative and spouting hatred of anything non-Apple does is tarnish the image of your fellow Apple fans. Don't be so scared of the competition. Don't let them drag you down to their level. We have the best product and we can take the moral high ground.
  • Reply 140 of 217
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    you know why i know Android users are jealous of iPhone users?





    You're IN AN APPLE FORUM! what the hell are you doing here?? go to an Android forum and leave us alone you troll.



    Because I am a Mac OSX user as well. I started reading this site YEARS ago.



    You'll notice I only post on articles that are ONLY about android on this page. This is because they show up in my RSS feed that's set to look for ANDROID news. You want android posters to leave, stop posting trash about android that has NOTHING to do with iOS.
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