Moogs, if that is your attitude, why do you even come and read here... much less post. No information posted here (or on other sites) under the label of rumour or insider information can be believed. It could all be fiction. Only when Apple finally plays its hand do we know for sure. Even then it is sometimes false!! (the infamous 50MHz "downgrade")
Dorsal's post matching the various discussions on AI can mean two things... (1) He is making it all up and just combs through the forum looking for reasonable bits, assembling them into a decent sound guess written in "Dorsal-speak", or (2) he is what he says and his posted matches the AI discussion because the AI discussion actually contains elements of truth gleaned from various other sources. Nobody except Dorsal really knows, and there is no reason to believe your counter view any more than Dorsal's.
<strong>Moogs, if that is your attitude, why do you even come and read here... much less post. No information posted here (or on other sites) under the label of rumour or insider information can be believed. It could all be fiction. Only when Apple finally plays its hand do we know for sure. Even then it is sometimes false!! (the infamous 50MHz "downgrade")
Dorsal's post matching the various discussions on AI can mean two things... (1) He is making it all up and just combs through the forum looking for reasonable bits, assembling them into a decent sound guess written in "Dorsal-speak", or (2) he is what he says and his posted matches the AI discussion because the AI discussion actually contains elements of truth gleaned from various other sources. Nobody except Dorsal really knows, and there is no reason to believe your counter view any more than Dorsal's.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm pretty sure you're relatively new here as I don't remember your nickname from the "old AI" but recently (last year or so) Future Hardware has become ridiculous. There WAS a time when the main purpose of future hardware was to discuss future hardware and speculate not have single post posters come here and make stuff up or members create false accounts to lie to everyone.
There were a few people who posted "inside info" and that was enough. it was more believable when there was a handful. now its 10 people a week and no one ever knows anything. it's gotten out of hand. the "confirmed" crap is really tiring
<strong> just stop it, kid. it doesnt make you big in any of our estimations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Niji, grand AI master with two posts to his name speaks...
As someone who has been around these boards for a while and who has read plenty of Eugene's posts I for one would rather hear his take on things than yours, at this point. Why don't you build a rep for yourself before questioning the rep / tactics of others?
[quote]Eugene (I think , too lazy to go back and look now) was right. Dorsal has not said a single thing in his post that hasn't already been speculated to death in here over the last three months. He's combined and regurgitated all the most reasonable predictions / rumors in his own writing style knowing that 80% of you will bow at his feet, thanking him for his "wisdom."<hr></blockquote>
What a bunch of dorks this board has. people respect what Dorsal (and a few others) say because of the way they deliver their speculations/information; Not because they're right 100% of the time. What they do not do is post for post count, or post to post, or post because they want people to "talk" to them; they post when they genuinely feel that they have something worth sharing; whereas you piss drinkers post whenever and about anything at all. That's the difference between a Dorsal post and a Moogs post. As for his similarity to the other bs posted here, why shouldn't there be? I think anyone could sit down and tell you what the future mac will hold by merely looking at the PC market. Just because he didn't come to us with info like " and it talks to you. it really does. oh and it sings and dances all for a quarter. the software is called iFag." does not at all disprove the credibility of his post.
So would all of the fanboys that do not like or are jealous of the celebrity Dorsal enjoys on these forums please STFU!!!
We don't know if Dorsal is right, if he is making it all up, or that he is even the real dorsal. I find it amazing that there really is no info out there on the the Powermacs. Some of these rumors must be true. The question is which ones are true and which ones are made up. Therefore just because dorsals post incorporates some of the rumors going around doesn't mean he is a fake.
I believe dorsal is telling the truth. He may be wrong but he has told us what he knows. These things are always subject to change.
M5884
You know Philbot said many of the same things as dorsal M in his topic. He just said them in a less trust worthy way. Nothing really meant by this, I was just thinking.
- Ambrosia is hardly a large and important software developer (sorry), so correct operation of your products on the day that they ship machines isn't exactly critical. And on the flip side, I'm sure Apple employees love testing your products on all the new hardware. Its probably very extensive testing too. This means you aren't first in line for what is always a limited number of prototypes.
So, no offense, but we can't really take what you say here very seriously. </strong><hr></blockquote>
We're important enough to have two of our products bundled on every single Macintosh sold.
However, I've never said I had access to any hardware seeds -- if I did, I would not be able to post about what I know, because I'd be under NDA for that hardware.
You can take seriously whatever you choose, but you're being incredibly short-sighted to dismiss what anyone with any shred of inside information knows: the G5 is barely even on the radar screen.
Everyone who has insulted or disparaged me for what I've been saying, I think you really should re-think ad-hominem attacks. Don't attack someone simply because you don't like what they are saying.
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's, and that there were two separate platforms (SDRAM and DDR) in semi-parallel development. If the delay in the new Pro line release wasn't simply a marketing decision, it is possible that they are skipping the SDRAM speedbump in favor of the DDR platform.
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know. Sure, they all could be wrong, or all might not know what the true deal is -- but somehow I doubt it.
If you want to attach more credibility to any random person with an Internet connection, then by all means, go for it. I attach more credibility to my friends and colleagues in the industry.
I suppose we'll see who is right soon enough, but in the meantime, lay off attacking the messenger simply because you don't like the message.
[quote] I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's, and that there were two separate platforms (SDRAM and DDR) in semi-parallel development. <hr></blockquote>
mmm, Dorsal said 2 machines 1 G4 and 1 G5, and you're saying 2 machines, both G4s. Could both of you be right but one of you have the 2nd machine wrong?
mmm, Dorsal said 2 machines 1 G4 and 1 G5, and you're saying 2 machines, both G4s. Could both of you be right but one of you have the 2nd machine wrong?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My best guess from what I've been told is that there were SDRAM speed bumped Apollo G4s, DDR speed bumped Apollo G4s, and also down the road, G5s.
Everyone was quite mystified that the SDRAM speed bumps were not released at MacWorld/SF -- I'm told the hardware was ready, so the delay wasn't technical. So either it is a marketing decision, or the SDRAM speedbump has been scrapped in favor of waiting for DDR machines to be good to go.
My best guess from what I've been told is that there were SDRAM speed bumped Apollo G4s, DDR speed bumped Apollo G4s, and also down the road, G5s.
Everyone was quite mystified that the SDRAM speed bumps were not released at MacWorld/SF -- I'm told the hardware was ready, so the delay wasn't technical. So either it is a marketing decision, or the SDRAM speedbump has been scrapped in favor of waiting for DDR machines to be good to go.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, the delay could be just lack of hardware quantities.
<strong>Hey Belle, when did you become such a TEASE?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry. No intriguing hardware insights, just a couple of judgmental posts written in anger that would result in me being flamed. Better to delete than put up with that.
moki is braver. And in a better position to comment.
My best guess from what I've been told is that there were SDRAM speed bumped Apollo G4s, DDR speed bumped Apollo G4s, and also down the road, G5s.
Everyone was quite mystified that the SDRAM speed bumps were not released at MacWorld/SF -- I'm told the hardware was ready, so the delay wasn't technical. So either it is a marketing decision, or the SDRAM speedbump has been scrapped in favor of waiting for DDR machines to be good to go.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So your gut says what? Apple will be releaseing the DDR Apollos next and opted to scrap the SDRAM Apollo? Or more importantly, whatever we get next IS going to be Apollo based?
If you want to attach more credibility to any random person with an Internet connection, then by all means, go for it. I attach more credibility to my friends and colleagues in the industry.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well that's good for you, but we don't know your friends and colleagues so for us, they have just as much credability as Dorsal.
We're important enough to have two of our products bundled on every single Macintosh sold.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really? Then how come when I look at the software bundle list for both the new iMac and the Powerbook G4 on Apple's web site (I didn't bother to check the iBook or Powermac G4) I see no mention of ANY Ambrosia title?
[quote]<strong>
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's, and that there were two separate platforms (SDRAM and DDR) in semi-parallel development. If the delay in the new Pro line release wasn't simply a marketing decision, it is possible that they are skipping the SDRAM speedbump in favor of the DDR platform.
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know. Sure, they all could be wrong, or all might not know what the true deal is -- but somehow I doubt it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
So do you think the Apollo-advertised-as G5 theory is a decent possibility?
Great, Dorsal has now covered his arse for both the Apollo rumors and the G5 rumors. He can't be wrong. Brilliant.
So we have from dorsal:
Apollo G4: speeds and fab are what rumors have been saying for months. Machines are speced out with few changes from current powermacs, in line with such a small speed bump.
G5: He describes the G5 EXACTLY as it is on many rumors, right down to the 400 MHz bus. No Level 3 cache, that is a new part but also, it is the sort of knowledge one who is well versed technically would know. If fast memory speeds negate the need for a L3 cache, then why would Apple use one? They wouldn't.
Dorsal knows his sh!t, but I don't believe he knows sh!t. All he did is serve up current rumors with technical jargon. I have no idea why anyone sucks his d!ck so hard.
I'm going with Apple scrapping the SDR mobos in favor of waiting for the DDR boards. That jibes with a lot of what I've been reading, and it makes sense.
There probably are G5 test mules out there somewhere, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're anywhere near release. Chips sample months before they go into production, and Apple almost certainly gets to work with CPUs that are still under development. Especially if the G5 is 64-bit and features a significantly overhauled architecture, it seems to me that Apple would want it to go through a long testing phase.
I have no industry contacts, but I'm going with moki: A G5 would be a pleasant surprise, but a DDR G4 (which would require a G4 tweaked to support DDR...) is more likely.
[quote]Apple will ship the fastest machine that they can manage and still be price competitive and have sufficient supply.<hr></blockquote>
This is not always true. Apple will sometimes release a machine with a slower processor, when they very easily could have shipped it with a faster one. Why? As insurance. Say Apple releases a 1.6Ghz G5 in 2 days. Motorolla has said to them that they will have 2Ghz G5's in 6 months. But what if Motorolla screws up, and it takes 12 months to reach 2Ghz? Wouldnt it be in Apple's best interest to play it safe and release a 1.4, or 1.5 G5, to guard against delays, and still have chips to release by the 6 month rev?
Dorsal(M) got his fame from his first post, where he more or less nailed the MWSF01 PowerMacs. However he was so far off the base on the MWNY01 PowerMacs that he reminded me of MOSR. Do I think that he is legit? Yes. However that meens little as to what Apple will release and when. Fred Anderson himself said something to the effect of the first half of 02 would be a time of transition, while big things would happen in the second. Frankly there are so many rumors flying around that I realy dont know what to believe. Dual SDR 1Ghz G4's from one place, DDR G4's from another, Apollo 1.2 GHz G4's from yet another. And G5's at 1 THZ from Joe down the street. Its gotten quite confusing. Purhaps Apple could clear some of this mess up?
PS Why all the Ambrosia bashing? They're a great little company that makes great software for the Mac.
Comments
Dorsal's post matching the various discussions on AI can mean two things... (1) He is making it all up and just combs through the forum looking for reasonable bits, assembling them into a decent sound guess written in "Dorsal-speak", or (2) he is what he says and his posted matches the AI discussion because the AI discussion actually contains elements of truth gleaned from various other sources. Nobody except Dorsal really knows, and there is no reason to believe your counter view any more than Dorsal's.
<strong>Moogs, if that is your attitude, why do you even come and read here... much less post. No information posted here (or on other sites) under the label of rumour or insider information can be believed. It could all be fiction. Only when Apple finally plays its hand do we know for sure. Even then it is sometimes false!! (the infamous 50MHz "downgrade")
Dorsal's post matching the various discussions on AI can mean two things... (1) He is making it all up and just combs through the forum looking for reasonable bits, assembling them into a decent sound guess written in "Dorsal-speak", or (2) he is what he says and his posted matches the AI discussion because the AI discussion actually contains elements of truth gleaned from various other sources. Nobody except Dorsal really knows, and there is no reason to believe your counter view any more than Dorsal's.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm pretty sure you're relatively new here as I don't remember your nickname from the "old AI" but recently (last year or so) Future Hardware has become ridiculous. There WAS a time when the main purpose of future hardware was to discuss future hardware and speculate not have single post posters come here and make stuff up or members create false accounts to lie to everyone.
There were a few people who posted "inside info" and that was enough. it was more believable when there was a handful. now its 10 people a week and no one ever knows anything. it's gotten out of hand. the "confirmed" crap is really tiring
<strong> just stop it, kid. it doesnt make you big in any of our estimations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Niji, grand AI master with two posts to his name speaks...
As someone who has been around these boards for a while and who has read plenty of Eugene's posts I for one would rather hear his take on things than yours, at this point. Why don't you build a rep for yourself before questioning the rep / tactics of others?
What a bunch of dorks this board has. people respect what Dorsal (and a few others) say because of the way they deliver their speculations/information; Not because they're right 100% of the time. What they do not do is post for post count, or post to post, or post because they want people to "talk" to them; they post when they genuinely feel that they have something worth sharing; whereas you piss drinkers post whenever and about anything at all. That's the difference between a Dorsal post and a Moogs post. As for his similarity to the other bs posted here, why shouldn't there be? I think anyone could sit down and tell you what the future mac will hold by merely looking at the PC market. Just because he didn't come to us with info like " and it talks to you. it really does. oh and it sings and dances all for a quarter. the software is called iFag." does not at all disprove the credibility of his post.
So would all of the fanboys that do not like or are jealous of the celebrity Dorsal enjoys on these forums please STFU!!!
I believe dorsal is telling the truth. He may be wrong but he has told us what he knows. These things are always subject to change.
M5884
You know Philbot said many of the same things as dorsal M in his topic. He just said them in a less trust worthy way. Nothing really meant by this, I was just thinking.
<strong>
- Ambrosia is hardly a large and important software developer (sorry), so correct operation of your products on the day that they ship machines isn't exactly critical. And on the flip side, I'm sure Apple employees love testing your products on all the new hardware. Its probably very extensive testing too. This means you aren't first in line for what is always a limited number of prototypes.
So, no offense, but we can't really take what you say here very seriously.
We're important enough to have two of our products bundled on every single Macintosh sold.
However, I've never said I had access to any hardware seeds -- if I did, I would not be able to post about what I know, because I'd be under NDA for that hardware.
You can take seriously whatever you choose, but you're being incredibly short-sighted to dismiss what anyone with any shred of inside information knows: the G5 is barely even on the radar screen.
Everyone who has insulted or disparaged me for what I've been saying, I think you really should re-think ad-hominem attacks. Don't attack someone simply because you don't like what they are saying.
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's, and that there were two separate platforms (SDRAM and DDR) in semi-parallel development. If the delay in the new Pro line release wasn't simply a marketing decision, it is possible that they are skipping the SDRAM speedbump in favor of the DDR platform.
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know. Sure, they all could be wrong, or all might not know what the true deal is -- but somehow I doubt it.
If you want to attach more credibility to any random person with an Internet connection, then by all means, go for it. I attach more credibility to my friends and colleagues in the industry.
I suppose we'll see who is right soon enough, but in the meantime, lay off attacking the messenger simply because you don't like the message.
[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: moki ]</p>
mmm, Dorsal said 2 machines 1 G4 and 1 G5, and you're saying 2 machines, both G4s. Could both of you be right but one of you have the 2nd machine wrong?
<strong>
mmm, Dorsal said 2 machines 1 G4 and 1 G5, and you're saying 2 machines, both G4s. Could both of you be right but one of you have the 2nd machine wrong?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My best guess from what I've been told is that there were SDRAM speed bumped Apollo G4s, DDR speed bumped Apollo G4s, and also down the road, G5s.
Everyone was quite mystified that the SDRAM speed bumps were not released at MacWorld/SF -- I'm told the hardware was ready, so the delay wasn't technical. So either it is a marketing decision, or the SDRAM speedbump has been scrapped in favor of waiting for DDR machines to be good to go.
Smart posting, moki.
[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
<strong>
My best guess from what I've been told is that there were SDRAM speed bumped Apollo G4s, DDR speed bumped Apollo G4s, and also down the road, G5s.
Everyone was quite mystified that the SDRAM speed bumps were not released at MacWorld/SF -- I'm told the hardware was ready, so the delay wasn't technical. So either it is a marketing decision, or the SDRAM speedbump has been scrapped in favor of waiting for DDR machines to be good to go.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, the delay could be just lack of hardware quantities.
<strong>Nearly did it again. Never mind.
Smart posting, moki.
[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey Belle, when did you become such a TEASE?
[quote]Originally posted by moki:
<strong>
We're important enough to have two of our products bundled on every single Macintosh sold.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
ZING!!
Nice one, Moki
<strong>Hey Belle, when did you become such a TEASE?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry. No intriguing hardware insights, just a couple of judgmental posts written in anger that would result in me being flamed. Better to delete than put up with that.
moki is braver. And in a better position to comment.
<strong>
My best guess from what I've been told is that there were SDRAM speed bumped Apollo G4s, DDR speed bumped Apollo G4s, and also down the road, G5s.
Everyone was quite mystified that the SDRAM speed bumps were not released at MacWorld/SF -- I'm told the hardware was ready, so the delay wasn't technical. So either it is a marketing decision, or the SDRAM speedbump has been scrapped in favor of waiting for DDR machines to be good to go.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So your gut says what? Apple will be releaseing the DDR Apollos next and opted to scrap the SDRAM Apollo? Or more importantly, whatever we get next IS going to be Apollo based?
I can deal nicely with a dual 1.0ghz DDR Apollo.
<strong>
If you want to attach more credibility to any random person with an Internet connection, then by all means, go for it. I attach more credibility to my friends and colleagues in the industry.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well that's good for you, but we don't know your friends and colleagues so for us, they have just as much credability as Dorsal.
<strong>
We're important enough to have two of our products bundled on every single Macintosh sold.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really? Then how come when I look at the software bundle list for both the new iMac and the Powerbook G4 on Apple's web site (I didn't bother to check the iBook or Powermac G4) I see no mention of ANY Ambrosia title?
[quote]<strong>
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's, and that there were two separate platforms (SDRAM and DDR) in semi-parallel development. If the delay in the new Pro line release wasn't simply a marketing decision, it is possible that they are skipping the SDRAM speedbump in favor of the DDR platform.
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know. Sure, they all could be wrong, or all might not know what the true deal is -- but somehow I doubt it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
So do you think the Apollo-advertised-as G5 theory is a decent possibility?
So we have from dorsal:
Apollo G4: speeds and fab are what rumors have been saying for months. Machines are speced out with few changes from current powermacs, in line with such a small speed bump.
G5: He describes the G5 EXACTLY as it is on many rumors, right down to the 400 MHz bus. No Level 3 cache, that is a new part but also, it is the sort of knowledge one who is well versed technically would know. If fast memory speeds negate the need for a L3 cache, then why would Apple use one? They wouldn't.
Dorsal knows his sh!t, but I don't believe he knows sh!t. All he did is serve up current rumors with technical jargon. I have no idea why anyone sucks his d!ck so hard.
There probably are G5 test mules out there somewhere, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're anywhere near release. Chips sample months before they go into production, and Apple almost certainly gets to work with CPUs that are still under development. Especially if the G5 is 64-bit and features a significantly overhauled architecture, it seems to me that Apple would want it to go through a long testing phase.
I have no industry contacts, but I'm going with moki: A G5 would be a pleasant surprise, but a DDR G4 (which would require a G4 tweaked to support DDR...) is more likely.
This is not always true. Apple will sometimes release a machine with a slower processor, when they very easily could have shipped it with a faster one. Why? As insurance. Say Apple releases a 1.6Ghz G5 in 2 days. Motorolla has said to them that they will have 2Ghz G5's in 6 months. But what if Motorolla screws up, and it takes 12 months to reach 2Ghz? Wouldnt it be in Apple's best interest to play it safe and release a 1.4, or 1.5 G5, to guard against delays, and still have chips to release by the 6 month rev?
Dorsal(M) got his fame from his first post, where he more or less nailed the MWSF01 PowerMacs. However he was so far off the base on the MWNY01 PowerMacs that he reminded me of MOSR. Do I think that he is legit? Yes. However that meens little as to what Apple will release and when. Fred Anderson himself said something to the effect of the first half of 02 would be a time of transition, while big things would happen in the second. Frankly there are so many rumors flying around that I realy dont know what to believe. Dual SDR 1Ghz G4's from one place, DDR G4's from another, Apollo 1.2 GHz G4's from yet another. And G5's at 1 THZ from Joe down the street. Its gotten quite confusing. Purhaps Apple could clear some of this mess up?
PS Why all the Ambrosia bashing? They're a great little company that makes great software for the Mac.
[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>