Give it up. Also if you really wanted to know if Dorsal was legit (as if you know what color the MB's on test units are...) why would you give him a color to choose from? Even if Red is a trick on your part, why not just ask an open-ended question of what color are the boards?
<strong>So your gut says what? Apple will be releaseing the DDR Apollos next and opted to scrap the SDRAM Apollo? Or more importantly, whatever we get next IS going to be Apollo based?
I can deal nicely with a dual 1.0ghz DDR Apollo.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, that would be my guess -- and I'm with you, I'd like one of those puppies on my desk too.
So do you think the Apollo-advertised-as G5 theory is a decent possibility?</strong><hr></blockquote>
God I hope not. I could see it happening, but I think it'd be a mistake if Apple branded the Apollo G4 as a G5.
As for the bundle, just wait and see. I'm by no means stating that we're a huge, important, billion dollar software company, but c'mon, we're not rank amatuers either.
Moki, you make a sensible post, but the problem is, these people you know in Apple are all under NDA. Why would they break their NDA to tell you, so you could go and spread it around on rumor boards? That doesn't make sense to me. All your friends at Apple need to do is look on this rumor board, and they know you spilled the beans. So it is very likely that they would withold information from you, because based on what I've heard, Apple employees take their NDAs VERY seriously. They are treated well by Apple and thus are very loyal employees.
Furthermore, if Jobs sees that your spreading around info that was obtained through the violation of an NDA, then your deal to have software bundled on new Macs could be in jeopardy. I'm shocked that you would risk so much to get some recognition on a rumor BB.</strong><hr></blockquote>
*sigh* I am not spreading any information that violates any NDA I have with Apple -- I have several, and I respect them to the letter. It would be entirely unprofessional to do otherwise.
However, I see no harm in countering the rampant over-hyping rumours that are being circulated. Indeed, a dose of reality tempers expectations, and is likely quite beneficial to Apple. Far better to be perceived as over-delivering than under-delivering.
I also have no spread any information that isn't already widely speculated on, I have not posted any specifics, nor do I plan to. All I have said is "don't hold your breath for G5 PowerMacs".
[quote]Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights:
<strong>
Thanks for being a reasonable voice around here, but I'm still going to tell your boss that your surfing the internet during business hours.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As for the bundle, just wait and see. I'm by no means stating that we're a huge, important, billion dollar software company, but c'mon, we're not rank amatuers either. </strong><hr></blockquote>
As for the bundle, just wait and see. I'm by no means stating that we're a huge, important, billion dollar software company, but c'mon, we're not rank amatuers either. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Ahh...so you meant that you will have two software titles shipping with every new Mac, as opposed to having them shipping with every new Mac
right now. The info supposedly on the Learn and Earn site said that Snapz Pro X would be shipping with every new PowerMac. That would be a logical thing to bundle (though I would think that Apple would just write an equivantally function program itself). Now what else? If EV Nova is bundled, assuming it's as addictive as its predecessors, then I could see how this would really help retail Mac sales. (Just have it running on every demo unit. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> )
You don't understand. It's not that Kormac has "confirmed" a rumor, it's that he covers ALL rumors. I find it suspicious when a person's prediction consists of hardware from every rumor circulating...so then whatever comes out, they are right. Duh.
If Kormac is right no matter what Apple releases, then he has not said anything of value. If he gives us something that could be proven wrong, then that has worth.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean Dorsal, don't you? That's who I was referring to. I don't even know what Kormac has been predicting.
Dorsal wasn't predicting anything, he was reporting what he saw. You can still argue that he is lying, although, like Programmer says, he doesn't seem to bask in the attention the way other, less reliable posters do. Like I say, determining what Apple is working on is relatively simple. Determining what they're going to release is very different, because so many factors go into the decision, the decision is made at only the highest levels, and the decision can be altered quite late in the day.
[QBYou can take seriously whatever you choose, but you're being incredibly short-sighted to dismiss what anyone with any shred of inside information knows: the G5 is barely even on the radar screen.
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's....
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
moki, pardon my curiosity, but did the G4's surprise announcement surprise you?
Would you be less or more surprised than that by the sudden appearance of G5s?
Not trying to make a case, just wondering....
--
The implicit portions of this post are presented as an exercise for the student
[quote]Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights:
<strong>
Thanks for being a reasonable voice around here, but I'm still going to tell your boss that your surfing the internet during business hours.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ummm....Garden...moki IS the boss!! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>The info supposedly on the Learn and Earn site said that Snapz Pro X would be shipping with every new PowerMac. That would be a logical thing to bundle (though I would think that Apple would just write an equivantally function program itself).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah...it's called Shift-Apple-4. <grumble, grumble>
Sorry, Moki, but that reality based stuff ain't gonna fly here. If that's what your peddling, you might want to try it in the saner quarters of, say, MOSR, ThinkSecret, or SpyMac. They are all over that boring speedbump story. In our hearts we know what the truth is, too, but, frankly, its a little depressing. This is the last place we can come to dream about a brighter future. If you want to be part of it, take the purple pill and join us. </strong><hr></blockquote>
That's exactly why people who have an inkling of the truth or experience in the industry shy away from places like this. No one here really wants to hear the truth unless it promises them fabulous improvements right now for free. Technology advances at a very rapid pace compared to other industries, but even it takes time.
My prediction for the G5 both past and present is MWSF in January of 2003. I have a little logic and experience on which to base this prediction. More than the average bear I guess
moki: I believe you because I know RIT alumn are only honorable and of the highest integrity Go Tigers!
p.s. - How much would it take to convince you to port EV and/or it's sequels to Windows? It's literally the thing i miss most about the Mac platform
Well my new iBook (I so need to change this nick) arrived three days ago, and I haven't seen any Ambrosia apps yet. Unless they're in 9... Wouldn't have seen them if that's the case. Don't touch the thing.
The above proves you can not ever "know" anything by reading these forums. As soon as a credible source posts 'A' then another equally credible source will post 'B'. What becomes most important for each reader is the choosing. It's a lot like Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco.
The other thing is that even if you did know exactly what was coming it wouldn't really change anything. The iMac announcement did not satiate anyone. Maybe a better question than "Is there going to be a G5 soon?" might be "If the G5 is released next week how will it change me? What will I have gained?" Pretend that the G5 has already been released. How much of your time has been made how much better by this faster computer? Some other questions are - How did Apple get so good at product secrecy? Compare and contrast the ways vaporware is good for most of the rest of the industry but bad for Apple. How come no one knows anyone at the actual manufacturing facilities who could take a peek? How come no one has snuck in with the laundry truck? When do you think a computer will be fast enough (real time effects with FCP3 being a long sought after goal)? What happpens when a computer is fast enough for 99.5% of users? What will the economic impetus be when that day comes to support further R&D? What could we possibly do that will require even more speed - 3d holographic displays??? Isn't it amazing that you can get 64meg of ram for the same price as a piece of good cheddar cheese?
I propose that future hardware be closed. I spend to much time here.
moki, pardon my curiosity, but did the G4's surprise announcement surprise you?
Would you be less or more surprised than that by the sudden appearance of G5s?
Not trying to make a case, just wondering....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let me just say that I would be absolutely *ecstatic* to be wrong about not seeing a G5-based Mac any time soon. I love the platform, and moreover, would love to see one on my desk.
So it would be with great pleasure that I ate a healthy amount of crow, and we get G5 Macs. However, I just don't see it happening -- MOT's semiconductor business switch focus rather firmly to the embedded market years ago. It may be coincidental, but it seemed to me at the time that killing the clones years ago marked a shift in MOT's focus when it came to their semiconductor business.
Killing the clones killed MOT's own PPC Mac clones, which couldn't have made many executives there happy -- it wasn't a trivial investment they made in their own machines, and the various parts they produced for others. It also cut down the number of companies wanting PPC chips for desktop computers, and thus the volume of PPC chip shipments -- despite Jobs' claim that they were cutting solely into Apple's sales.
It was also in that timeframe that MOT announced that Windows NT was their standard corporate computing environment -- sounding a bit of a deathnell for their support of Macs and perhaps fortelling the amount of enthusiasm they'd devote to PPC chip development outside of the embedded market.
Don't get me wrong, Apple is still a huge customer of MOT, but it simply seems to me that a corporate change of direction happened back then. Perhaps it would have happened anyway, given the furious pace Intel set, who knows.
As for the G4, it wasn't that much of a surprise for most developers -- we were seeded with "SimG4" -- an app that simulated the G4 in software, letting developers profile their code on a G4 without actually having one. It is still around today, and still quite useful.
That said, there also was not such a shrouded veil of secrecy around Apple then. The Jihad against rumours sites hadn't really begun yet.
So in a nutshell, I think you're asking "Is it possible the G5 could be sprung upon everyone as a surprise?" Sure, I suppose it is possible -- it'd be one incredibly tight-lipped project, though, both from MOT and from Apple. It would *really* surprise me.
Comments
<strong>Dorsal, please answer the question I asked earlier in this thread. If you answer correctly, I will know you are legitimate and sincere.
I ask again:
What are the respective colors of the seeded G4 and G5 motherboards? Are they different or are both red?
[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
PowermacG4 -
Give it up. Also if you really wanted to know if Dorsal was legit (as if you know what color the MB's on test units are...) why would you give him a color to choose from? Even if Red is a trick on your part, why not just ask an open-ended question of what color are the boards?
<strong>So your gut says what? Apple will be releaseing the DDR Apollos next and opted to scrap the SDRAM Apollo? Or more importantly, whatever we get next IS going to be Apollo based?
I can deal nicely with a dual 1.0ghz DDR Apollo.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, that would be my guess -- and I'm with you, I'd like one of those puppies on my desk too.
<strong>
So do you think the Apollo-advertised-as G5 theory is a decent possibility?</strong><hr></blockquote>
God I hope not. I could see it happening, but I think it'd be a mistake if Apple branded the Apollo G4 as a G5.
As for the bundle, just wait and see. I'm by no means stating that we're a huge, important, billion dollar software company, but c'mon, we're not rank amatuers either.
<strong>
Moki, you make a sensible post, but the problem is, these people you know in Apple are all under NDA. Why would they break their NDA to tell you, so you could go and spread it around on rumor boards? That doesn't make sense to me. All your friends at Apple need to do is look on this rumor board, and they know you spilled the beans. So it is very likely that they would withold information from you, because based on what I've heard, Apple employees take their NDAs VERY seriously. They are treated well by Apple and thus are very loyal employees.
Furthermore, if Jobs sees that your spreading around info that was obtained through the violation of an NDA, then your deal to have software bundled on new Macs could be in jeopardy. I'm shocked that you would risk so much to get some recognition on a rumor BB.</strong><hr></blockquote>
*sigh* I am not spreading any information that violates any NDA I have with Apple -- I have several, and I respect them to the letter. It would be entirely unprofessional to do otherwise.
However, I see no harm in countering the rampant over-hyping rumours that are being circulated. Indeed, a dose of reality tempers expectations, and is likely quite beneficial to Apple. Far better to be perceived as over-delivering than under-delivering.
I also have no spread any information that isn't already widely speculated on, I have not posted any specifics, nor do I plan to. All I have said is "don't hold your breath for G5 PowerMacs".
<strong>
Thanks for being a reasonable voice around here, but I'm still going to tell your boss that your surfing the internet during business hours.</strong><hr></blockquote>
hehe. Please do.
<strong>
As for the bundle, just wait and see. I'm by no means stating that we're a huge, important, billion dollar software company, but c'mon, we're not rank amatuers either.
Your software (the stuff I use) is good.
Glad to see somebody with reason in here.
- Mark
<strong>
As for the bundle, just wait and see. I'm by no means stating that we're a huge, important, billion dollar software company, but c'mon, we're not rank amatuers either.
Ahh...so you meant that you will have two software titles shipping with every new Mac, as opposed to having them shipping with every new Mac
right now. The info supposedly on the Learn and Earn site said that Snapz Pro X would be shipping with every new PowerMac. That would be a logical thing to bundle (though I would think that Apple would just write an equivantally function program itself). Now what else? If EV Nova is bundled, assuming it's as addictive as its predecessors, then I could see how this would really help retail Mac sales. (Just have it running on every demo unit. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> )
<strong>
Ahh...so you meant that you will have two software titles shipping with every new Mac, as opposed to having them shipping with every new Mac
right now. )</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, no -- Snapz Pro X should be bundled already -- there was an Apple site mentioned as such a month ago or so.
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled rumour mongering...
<strong>
You don't understand. It's not that Kormac has "confirmed" a rumor, it's that he covers ALL rumors. I find it suspicious when a person's prediction consists of hardware from every rumor circulating...so then whatever comes out, they are right. Duh.
If Kormac is right no matter what Apple releases, then he has not said anything of value. If he gives us something that could be proven wrong, then that has worth.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean Dorsal, don't you? That's who I was referring to. I don't even know what Kormac has been predicting.
Dorsal wasn't predicting anything, he was reporting what he saw. You can still argue that he is lying, although, like Programmer says, he doesn't seem to bask in the attention the way other, less reliable posters do. Like I say, determining what Apple is working on is relatively simple. Determining what they're going to release is very different, because so many factors go into the decision, the decision is made at only the highest levels, and the decision can be altered quite late in the day.
[QBYou can take seriously whatever you choose, but you're being incredibly short-sighted to dismiss what anyone with any shred of inside information knows: the G5 is barely even on the radar screen.
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's....
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
moki, pardon my curiosity, but did the G4's surprise announcement surprise you?
Would you be less or more surprised than that by the sudden appearance of G5s?
Not trying to make a case, just wondering....
--
The implicit portions of this post are presented as an exercise for the student
<strong>
Thanks for being a reasonable voice around here, but I'm still going to tell your boss that your surfing the internet during business hours.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ummm....Garden...moki IS the boss!! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>The info supposedly on the Learn and Earn site said that Snapz Pro X would be shipping with every new PowerMac. That would be a logical thing to bundle (though I would think that Apple would just write an equivantally function program itself).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah...it's called Shift-Apple-4. <grumble, grumble>
Alex
<strong>
Sorry, Moki, but that reality based stuff ain't gonna fly here. If that's what your peddling, you might want to try it in the saner quarters of, say, MOSR, ThinkSecret, or SpyMac. They are all over that boring speedbump story. In our hearts we know what the truth is, too, but, frankly, its a little depressing. This is the last place we can come to dream about a brighter future. If you want to be part of it, take the purple pill and join us.
That's exactly why people who have an inkling of the truth or experience in the industry shy away from places like this. No one here really wants to hear the truth unless it promises them fabulous improvements right now for free. Technology advances at a very rapid pace compared to other industries, but even it takes time.
My prediction for the G5 both past and present is MWSF in January of 2003. I have a little logic and experience on which to base this prediction. More than the average bear I guess
moki: I believe you because I know RIT alumn are only honorable and of the highest integrity
p.s. - How much would it take to convince you to port EV and/or it's sequels to Windows? It's literally the thing i miss most about the Mac platform
The other thing is that even if you did know exactly what was coming it wouldn't really change anything. The iMac announcement did not satiate anyone. Maybe a better question than "Is there going to be a G5 soon?" might be "If the G5 is released next week how will it change me? What will I have gained?" Pretend that the G5 has already been released. How much of your time has been made how much better by this faster computer? Some other questions are - How did Apple get so good at product secrecy? Compare and contrast the ways vaporware is good for most of the rest of the industry but bad for Apple. How come no one knows anyone at the actual manufacturing facilities who could take a peek? How come no one has snuck in with the laundry truck? When do you think a computer will be fast enough (real time effects with FCP3 being a long sought after goal)? What happpens when a computer is fast enough for 99.5% of users? What will the economic impetus be when that day comes to support further R&D? What could we possibly do that will require even more speed - 3d holographic displays??? Isn't it amazing that you can get 64meg of ram for the same price as a piece of good cheddar cheese?
I propose that future hardware be closed. I spend to much time here.
<strong>
moki, pardon my curiosity, but did the G4's surprise announcement surprise you?
Would you be less or more surprised than that by the sudden appearance of G5s?
Not trying to make a case, just wondering....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let me just say that I would be absolutely *ecstatic* to be wrong about not seeing a G5-based Mac any time soon. I love the platform, and moreover, would love to see one on my desk.
So it would be with great pleasure that I ate a healthy amount of crow, and we get G5 Macs. However, I just don't see it happening -- MOT's semiconductor business switch focus rather firmly to the embedded market years ago. It may be coincidental, but it seemed to me at the time that killing the clones years ago marked a shift in MOT's focus when it came to their semiconductor business.
Killing the clones killed MOT's own PPC Mac clones, which couldn't have made many executives there happy -- it wasn't a trivial investment they made in their own machines, and the various parts they produced for others. It also cut down the number of companies wanting PPC chips for desktop computers, and thus the volume of PPC chip shipments -- despite Jobs' claim that they were cutting solely into Apple's sales.
It was also in that timeframe that MOT announced that Windows NT was their standard corporate computing environment -- sounding a bit of a deathnell for their support of Macs and perhaps fortelling the amount of enthusiasm they'd devote to PPC chip development outside of the embedded market.
Don't get me wrong, Apple is still a huge customer of MOT, but it simply seems to me that a corporate change of direction happened back then. Perhaps it would have happened anyway, given the furious pace Intel set, who knows.
As for the G4, it wasn't that much of a surprise for most developers -- we were seeded with "SimG4" -- an app that simulated the G4 in software, letting developers profile their code on a G4 without actually having one. It is still around today, and still quite useful.
That said, there also was not such a shrouded veil of secrecy around Apple then. The Jihad against rumours sites hadn't really begun yet.
So in a nutshell, I think you're asking "Is it possible the G5 could be sprung upon everyone as a surprise?" Sure, I suppose it is possible -- it'd be one incredibly tight-lipped project, though, both from MOT and from Apple. It would *really* surprise me.
<strong>
Well, no -- Snapz Pro X should be bundled already -- there was an Apple site mentioned as such a month ago or so.</strong><hr></blockquote>
According to your website, it's only bundled with "Pro" Macs. Will this change?
And it still leaves open the second bundled title to rampant speculation....
<strong>
So it would be with great pleasure that I ate a healthy amount of crow, and we get G5 Macs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmmm...will you literally do this?
(Thinks back to when Whong ate all those bugs....)
Promise to eat, if Apple releases G5's, one crow for every month between the earliest date you think G5's could come and the release date of the G5.