You reckon Jobs and company are like you, you reckon they are not afraid of the competition, Apple is a business entity and a very fierce competitor and not worried about changing rules and plans to beat their competition.
You reckon they will lie down and die and not fight every inch of the way.
You are dead wrong, people are buying the iPhones and I have not seen 1 android phone in the wild.
In spite of the ego and stuffs people are still flocking to buy the iOS family of products because they represent quality.
As for the results I am not sure what you are referring to if it is the projection - in other words a pipe dream. Come back in 4 years, we will see who is ahead and making real money it wouldn't be goog.
I agree that Apple isn't going to take the competition lying down. The recent developments to clarify app store policies, the move to more carriers, and the continued innovation in phone hardware and software are all signs of that. But you really haven't seen an Android phone in the wild? That's hard to believe. I see them everywhere.
The iPhone is already on multiple carriers in most countries it's available. The big one of course where it isn't is the US. Even if (or I should say when) it goes multiple carrier here, Android is still going to outsell it. It won't be about carrier availability but quantity of models. Gazillion Android models to 1.
Massive hole in your reasoning here. Android isn't outselling the iPhone internationally (where it is available on multiple carriers), so how can you conclude that it will outsell the iPhone in the US when the iPhone becomes available on multiple carriers in the US?
That's not to say that Android won't outsell iOS internationally, especially considering that it will be present in the budget market that Apple won't tread in, but we'll have to wait and see.
Well, I for one care a bit more about Gartner's projections than your projections.
Got anything behind your analysis that beats the data Gartner relied upon?
Just common sense. By my estimate - that carries as much weight as any projections of any sort of any financial nature coming out of the US these days...
You can get an iPhone 4 for the same price as an Incredible or Droid X. So cheaper devices isn't the issue, or at least not the main one. If Apple could dominate the true high end of the smart phone market and relegate Android to cheapo phones that can be given away for free with a contract, Apple would be in pretty good shape. But that's not what is happening.
What I see happening is that Apple will retain their "premium" status and grab the top-most portion of the market. And because of Android's flexibility, it will take over mostly everything else, while at the same time will include phones that can compete on the iPhone's level.
Well, the Symbian prediction is obviously utter nonsense, but suggests strongly that Nokia paid for this "study". Gartner have always been the worst "research" whores in the business.
agreed.
Android is also the business model they are used to, and they just don't grok Apple. Never have.
Nokia Symbian? hardly. Yes, handsets will be huge, but profits? compelling experience?
Apple and Google are the only players (maybe microsoft, but they are out of the game) that can build the wholistic experience. Google is years behind apple in a cohesive market, but is making up for that by establishing themselves on every carrier and every format. But in the end, Android will always be about DIY/tinkerers, and Apple is selling to $$ carrying consumers. Nokia, all about volume, Microsoft, who knows what they are about.
The curious thing is the dissing of RIMM. Like Microsoft, they own the corporate handset world. Displacing the BES investment at major corps will take longer than 4 years.
And personally, I think apple would be quite happy at 4th place among all phone HW vendors with 10-20% of the total phone market. By that time that will be over 100million phones a year. And the iPhone halo will sell iPads and iPods and Macs apps and services , thank you very much. Google will get their ad impressions, and maybe sell a few corp sales to Google Apps. What will Nokia get with their market share?
And that in itself, is why I think Nokia will only be able to compete on pricing volumes, and eventually, become the Dell of cell phones.
Apple in most countries outside of the USA (and believe me there are many countries outside of the USA) - already resell the iphone to all carriers in the country. Aust, NZ and Europe being the obvious examples (obvious to this fanboi anyway).
I still think that the fundamental logic remains behind what I said - apple's pitch is for a unified experience - and they deliver that limited pitch well - numbers of carriers notwithstanding.
What is your actual point anyway - apart from just writing the word fanboi down...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh
This is the fanboi's response. Unfortunately this is probably the attitude in the board room at Apple. And this attitude will bite the Apple's ass in a really big way.
One really easy way to increase iPhone sales is to...get ready, you knew someone was gonna bring this up...open the phone to other carriers. The public wants it, it will make everyone money and it's a good business decision.
But when you have a CEO with an ego as big as the North American continent you just don't do that. And if your a rabid fanboi you support that decision.
Just common sense. By my estimate - that carries as much weight as any projections of any sort of any financial nature coming out of the US these days...
Fair enough. But by the estimations of the smart money, things may differ. Likely they weigh things other than your estimates a bit more heavily.
You reckon Jobs and company are like you, you reckon they are not afraid of the competition, Apple is a business entity and a very fierce competitor and not worried about changing rules and plans to beat their competition.
You reckon they will lie down and die and not fight every inch of the way.
You are dead wrong, people are buying the iPhones and I have not seen 1 android phone in the wild.
In spite of the ego and stuffs people are still flocking to buy the iOS family of products because they represent quality.
As for the results I am not sure what you are referring to if it is the projection - in other words a pipe dream. Come back in 4 years, we will see who is ahead and making real money it wouldn't be goog.
Who said Apple doesn't compete? I didn't.
I'm dead wrong? Gee, I've never heard that from anyone here before.
What does it mean that you have not seen one Android phone in the wild? Before I can respond I have to know what the heck you mean. "We will see who is ahead and making real money it wouldn't be goog. What is goog? Google?
I am not in favor of Apple beating goog out of business or the other way around. I like competition, as do most normal people.
Apple is projected to sell 130 million iOS-based mobile devices per year by 2014, but both Google Android and Nokia Symbian are expected to each double that amount, according to Gartner. ...
These stats are total BS. They aren't even worth arguing over.
Apple in most countries outside of the USA (and believe me there are many countries outside of the USA) - already resell the iphone to all carriers in the country. Aust, NZ and Europe being the obvious examples (obvious to this fanboi anyway).
I still think that the fundamental logic remains behind what I said - apple's pitch is for a unified experience - and they deliver that limited pitch well - numbers of carriers notwithstanding.
What is your actual point anyway - apart from just writing the word fanboi down...?
My point is very simple. The iPhone has reached a saturation point. They are not going to sell a LOT more unless they open up to other carriers and try to rope in the fence sitters who don't want to be married to ATT for two years.
You called my response stupid. That's like calling me stupid. May I remind you that name calling is not allowed here. I'm afraid I'm going to have to report you.
Apple's goal is to make as much profit as possible. Nothing else is a goal, but only a means to the goal of maximum profits. ...
This is completely inaccurate.
To the degree that this isn't just a easily spouted truism about business in general (which is false in and of itself), it's the exact opposite of how Apple is set up. If you really believe this, then you don't know anything at all about Apple and how they operate.
Don't tell me Apple is on the verge of collapse again. Doesn't this company ever get a rest from rivals trying to usurp its position. Exactly what company is making a whole lot of money from Android's rapid growth? Probably one company. HTC. That's it. Apple doesn't seem to be in any immediate financial danger so I'm not going to concern myself about the so-called Android threat.
I agree that profits are more important than market share for Apple, but developers go were the customers are so Apple needs to maintain a decent market share to retain iOS developers in the future. Android apps may be poor in comparison to iOS apps right now but we all know that they will get better and Nokia will eventually get it's act together with apps.
IMO Apple needs more than one iPhone device to cater for 'premium' and 'regular' customers if they want to maintain their market share long term. In a sense they are already doing that by keeping the iPhone 3GS on sale alongside the iPhone 4. Maybe that's the right way to go I don't know.
Just like Android activations, iOS activations have been increasing. Some of them are iPad activations which weren't around at the beginning of the year.
No, that could not be the driving factor in their methodology. For instance, their forecast for all of 2011 is only 70.7 million iOS devices. That is far less than today's 230,000/day rate (and this does not even include the 'upgrade' activations).
First off, I'm still a little skeptical Android has sold so many phones this year. I just don't see the phones. Everyone in my work, church, neighborhood, everywhere I go, people are using iPhones. I hardly ever see someone using an Android phone. It seems very strange to me. Where are all these supposed Android phones in the wild?
And then there are all the surveys of smartphone owners. Every survey ever conducted shows iPhone owners are much happier with their devices, by a HUGE margin. The surveys also show a good chunk of Android owners would like to get an iPhone as their next smartphone.
That tells me Android devices are turning into a "gateway drug" for iOS devices. People get sold on a Android phone for some reason, and over time they realize it just doesn't hold up to iOS and the whole ecosystem around it.
Anyway, if Apple can sell 130 million iOS devices a year, that's awesome. I'm just skeptical any other platform will outsell them. I mean, the iPod touch still doesn't have a single competitor!
The sales numbers could be correct. There was just a news blurb stating that the sanding galaxy android phone is selling almost one million units a month on t-mobile and AT&T
Who cares if there are more Android devices than Apple!
Here's your duh statement for the day...
1 manufacturer versus what 5 or more. What would you expect? Apple isn't going to be destroyed by this. For 1 company to sell over 100 million of anything is a raging success.
Most cheap people want to afford the Droid because it is cheaper plus they were/are giving one away with each one sold. How profitable is that?
To the degree that this isn't just a easily spouted truism about business in general (which is false in and of itself), it's the exact opposite of how Apple is set up.
I said: "Apple's goal is to make as much profit as possible."
The exact opposite is "Apple's goal is to make as little profit as possible."
Comments
You reckon Jobs and company are like you, you reckon they are not afraid of the competition, Apple is a business entity and a very fierce competitor and not worried about changing rules and plans to beat their competition.
You reckon they will lie down and die and not fight every inch of the way.
You are dead wrong, people are buying the iPhones and I have not seen 1 android phone in the wild.
In spite of the ego and stuffs people are still flocking to buy the iOS family of products because they represent quality.
As for the results I am not sure what you are referring to if it is the projection - in other words a pipe dream. Come back in 4 years, we will see who is ahead and making real money it wouldn't be goog.
I agree that Apple isn't going to take the competition lying down. The recent developments to clarify app store policies, the move to more carriers, and the continued innovation in phone hardware and software are all signs of that. But you really haven't seen an Android phone in the wild? That's hard to believe. I see them everywhere.
The iPhone is already on multiple carriers in most countries it's available. The big one of course where it isn't is the US. Even if (or I should say when) it goes multiple carrier here, Android is still going to outsell it. It won't be about carrier availability but quantity of models. Gazillion Android models to 1.
Massive hole in your reasoning here. Android isn't outselling the iPhone internationally (where it is available on multiple carriers), so how can you conclude that it will outsell the iPhone in the US when the iPhone becomes available on multiple carriers in the US?
That's not to say that Android won't outsell iOS internationally, especially considering that it will be present in the budget market that Apple won't tread in, but we'll have to wait and see.
Well, I for one care a bit more about Gartner's projections than your projections.
Got anything behind your analysis that beats the data Gartner relied upon?
Just common sense. By my estimate - that carries as much weight as any projections of any sort of any financial nature coming out of the US these days...
You can get an iPhone 4 for the same price as an Incredible or Droid X. So cheaper devices isn't the issue, or at least not the main one. If Apple could dominate the true high end of the smart phone market and relegate Android to cheapo phones that can be given away for free with a contract, Apple would be in pretty good shape. But that's not what is happening.
What I see happening is that Apple will retain their "premium" status and grab the top-most portion of the market. And because of Android's flexibility, it will take over mostly everything else, while at the same time will include phones that can compete on the iPhone's level.
Well, the Symbian prediction is obviously utter nonsense, but suggests strongly that Nokia paid for this "study". Gartner have always been the worst "research" whores in the business.
agreed.
Android is also the business model they are used to, and they just don't grok Apple. Never have.
Nokia Symbian? hardly. Yes, handsets will be huge, but profits? compelling experience?
Apple and Google are the only players (maybe microsoft, but they are out of the game) that can build the wholistic experience. Google is years behind apple in a cohesive market, but is making up for that by establishing themselves on every carrier and every format. But in the end, Android will always be about DIY/tinkerers, and Apple is selling to $$ carrying consumers. Nokia, all about volume, Microsoft, who knows what they are about.
The curious thing is the dissing of RIMM. Like Microsoft, they own the corporate handset world. Displacing the BES investment at major corps will take longer than 4 years.
And personally, I think apple would be quite happy at 4th place among all phone HW vendors with 10-20% of the total phone market. By that time that will be over 100million phones a year. And the iPhone halo will sell iPads and iPods and Macs apps and services , thank you very much. Google will get their ad impressions, and maybe sell a few corp sales to Google Apps. What will Nokia get with their market share?
And that in itself, is why I think Nokia will only be able to compete on pricing volumes, and eventually, become the Dell of cell phones.
Apple in most countries outside of the USA (and believe me there are many countries outside of the USA) - already resell the iphone to all carriers in the country. Aust, NZ and Europe being the obvious examples (obvious to this fanboi anyway).
I still think that the fundamental logic remains behind what I said - apple's pitch is for a unified experience - and they deliver that limited pitch well - numbers of carriers notwithstanding.
What is your actual point anyway - apart from just writing the word fanboi down...?
This is the fanboi's response. Unfortunately this is probably the attitude in the board room at Apple. And this attitude will bite the Apple's ass in a really big way.
One really easy way to increase iPhone sales is to...get ready, you knew someone was gonna bring this up...open the phone to other carriers. The public wants it, it will make everyone money and it's a good business decision.
But when you have a CEO with an ego as big as the North American continent you just don't do that. And if your a rabid fanboi you support that decision.
So live with the results.
Just common sense. By my estimate - that carries as much weight as any projections of any sort of any financial nature coming out of the US these days...
Fair enough. But by the estimations of the smart money, things may differ. Likely they weigh things other than your estimates a bit more heavily.
I never said "Yes and No".
I am trying very hard to stay on-topic, however.
Huh? That was MY reply - I responded by saying Yes and No - I agree and I disagree with your (original) statement.
You reckon Jobs and company are like you, you reckon they are not afraid of the competition, Apple is a business entity and a very fierce competitor and not worried about changing rules and plans to beat their competition.
You reckon they will lie down and die and not fight every inch of the way.
You are dead wrong, people are buying the iPhones and I have not seen 1 android phone in the wild.
In spite of the ego and stuffs people are still flocking to buy the iOS family of products because they represent quality.
As for the results I am not sure what you are referring to if it is the projection - in other words a pipe dream. Come back in 4 years, we will see who is ahead and making real money it wouldn't be goog.
Who said Apple doesn't compete? I didn't.
I'm dead wrong? Gee, I've never heard that from anyone here before.
What does it mean that you have not seen one Android phone in the wild? Before I can respond I have to know what the heck you mean. "We will see who is ahead and making real money it wouldn't be goog. What is goog? Google?
I am not in favor of Apple beating goog out of business or the other way around. I like competition, as do most normal people.
Apple is projected to sell 130 million iOS-based mobile devices per year by 2014, but both Google Android and Nokia Symbian are expected to each double that amount, according to Gartner. ...
These stats are total BS. They aren't even worth arguing over.
This is the stupid response.
Apple in most countries outside of the USA (and believe me there are many countries outside of the USA) - already resell the iphone to all carriers in the country. Aust, NZ and Europe being the obvious examples (obvious to this fanboi anyway).
I still think that the fundamental logic remains behind what I said - apple's pitch is for a unified experience - and they deliver that limited pitch well - numbers of carriers notwithstanding.
What is your actual point anyway - apart from just writing the word fanboi down...?
My point is very simple. The iPhone has reached a saturation point. They are not going to sell a LOT more unless they open up to other carriers and try to rope in the fence sitters who don't want to be married to ATT for two years.
You called my response stupid. That's like calling me stupid. May I remind you that name calling is not allowed here. I'm afraid I'm going to have to report you.
Apple's goal is to make as much profit as possible. Nothing else is a goal, but only a means to the goal of maximum profits. ...
This is completely inaccurate.
To the degree that this isn't just a easily spouted truism about business in general (which is false in and of itself), it's the exact opposite of how Apple is set up. If you really believe this, then you don't know anything at all about Apple and how they operate.
Some analysts says the end of the world is in 2012
Really?....someone should make a movie about it..........
IMO Apple needs more than one iPhone device to cater for 'premium' and 'regular' customers if they want to maintain their market share long term. In a sense they are already doing that by keeping the iPhone 3GS on sale alongside the iPhone 4. Maybe that's the right way to go I don't know.
Just like Android activations, iOS activations have been increasing. Some of them are iPad activations which weren't around at the beginning of the year.
No, that could not be the driving factor in their methodology. For instance, their forecast for all of 2011 is only 70.7 million iOS devices. That is far less than today's 230,000/day rate (and this does not even include the 'upgrade' activations).
Gartner is way off on this one.
First off, I'm still a little skeptical Android has sold so many phones this year. I just don't see the phones. Everyone in my work, church, neighborhood, everywhere I go, people are using iPhones. I hardly ever see someone using an Android phone. It seems very strange to me. Where are all these supposed Android phones in the wild?
And then there are all the surveys of smartphone owners. Every survey ever conducted shows iPhone owners are much happier with their devices, by a HUGE margin. The surveys also show a good chunk of Android owners would like to get an iPhone as their next smartphone.
That tells me Android devices are turning into a "gateway drug" for iOS devices. People get sold on a Android phone for some reason, and over time they realize it just doesn't hold up to iOS and the whole ecosystem around it.
Anyway, if Apple can sell 130 million iOS devices a year, that's awesome. I'm just skeptical any other platform will outsell them. I mean, the iPod touch still doesn't have a single competitor!
The sales numbers could be correct. There was just a news blurb stating that the sanding galaxy android phone is selling almost one million units a month on t-mobile and AT&T
Here's your duh statement for the day...
1 manufacturer versus what 5 or more. What would you expect? Apple isn't going to be destroyed by this. For 1 company to sell over 100 million of anything is a raging success.
Most cheap people want to afford the Droid because it is cheaper plus they were/are giving one away with each one sold. How profitable is that?
This is completely inaccurate.
To the degree that this isn't just a easily spouted truism about business in general (which is false in and of itself), it's the exact opposite of how Apple is set up.
I said: "Apple's goal is to make as much profit as possible."
The exact opposite is "Apple's goal is to make as little profit as possible."
I stick by my original statement.