I think it's time for you to "man up" and admit that you neither know or care to know what I am talking about, and that your mission is to make others misunderstand it too.
See what I mean about your DNA? ... Still avoiding the obvious and trying to shift the blame elsewhere. .... nice
Be prepared for drawing and quartering, but only after tarring and feathering.
Way back when this thread was a mere youngster, I mentioned what I thought were RIM's substantial challenges to making a success out of this product. For sure it's going to be an uphill climb. But since I consider them to be a competent company with a large and fairly loyal customer base, I certainly would not count them out before they even enter the ring -- which is what many here appear so anxious to do, merely on the strength (or weakness) of one video.
I don't think anyone is counting them out based solely on the video. Their chances of success are being discounted a) based on the point they are in producing this (very early), b) their to-date lackluster success at producing touchscreen devices, and c) their likelihood of not being able to attract significant enough mind share to their device given the competition for the same from iOS and Android.
I don't think anyone is counting them out based solely on the video. Their chances of success are being discounted a) based on the point they are in producing this (very early), b) their to-date lackluster success at producing touchscreen devices, and c) their likelihood of not being able to attract significant enough mind share to their device given the competition for the same from iOS and Android.
and d) not made by Apple
The fact of the matter is that BB has higher market share in North America than iOS or Android, and their phones offer greater encryption. If this integrates well with BB devices, I can see it doing well. Sure it won't have the apps or the mindshare of the iPad, but it will likely have its place in the market. It may turn out to be a very successful product for RIM.
You don't have to outsell the iPad, or even take sales from the iPad to have a successful tablet as it appears like the market for tablets is going to expand rapidly and Apple won't fill it all.
It's entirely mistaken to equate these in any way. There's a huge difference between walking on stage and demoing an actual product prototype, a finished prototype, and showing a concept video. There's a huge difference between showing working screen shots and, again, a concept video. And there's a huge difference between "early 2011" and "60 days". The PlayBook will not be here in 3 months (early January), and it most likely won't be here in 6 months (early April), maybe in 9 months (end of June, technically still "early" (vs. late) 2011), or maybe it will slip into Q3... or Q4.
So, this is why everyone is disagreeing with you.
EDIT: The reason why I, and apparently others, don't believe this will be shipping in 3 months, and probably not in 6 months, is that you can tell from the video that it's an unfinished design. (Thus why I called it a "concept video" and others have referred to it as "fake") RIM has a ton of work to even finish this on the drawing board, let alone get it into production and bring it to market. It's just not reasonable to expect that they'll be able to do this in a shorter time frame.
RIM gave THREE different shipping dates: next month for enterprise/developers, early 2010 for generall US release, and Q2 for international. They won't be that specific if they weren't close to final release.
The new Blackberries with OS 6 came out pretty soon after the "concept video". The actual devices came out pretty close in performance to the concept video --- the only complaint so far has been that it's underpowered by the slow cpu. If these blackberries came out with a 1 GHz CPU, then it would have been perfectly mirroring the concept video.
Someone has probably mentioned this already but I'm wondering if the rumoured 7" iPad that was supposed to be more like the iPhone and is now a finished product ( http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=113294 ) was in fact this Blackberry tablet. It's a taller type of screen and resembles an iPhone shape way more than an iPad. In the Chinese factories, it probably wouldn't have any branding on it.
The fact of the matter is that BB has higher market share in North America than iOS or Android, and their phones offer greater encryption. If this integrates well with BB devices, I can see it doing well. Sure it won't have the apps or the mindshare of the iPad, but it will likely have its place in the market. It may turn out to be a very successful product for RIM.
You don't have to outsell the iPad, or even take sales from the iPad to have a successful tablet as it appears like the market for tablets is going to expand rapidly and Apple won't fill it all.
Yes, but RIM has zero mind share for touchscreen devices, and practically zero mind share with developers, as opposed to (my point (c)) iOS and Android.
Companies do this shit all the time. The RIM tablet at this point exists only on paper. They have an OS that runs on the processor they are planning to use, they will copy UI from the iPad (like Samsung), webOS, etc., the SDK is Web+Flash, so they don't have anything to produce for developers (the choice of dev tools is another indication that this is a hacked together rush job, btw), and the hardware design will be a mashup of the Torch and iPad. They will try to cobble this together as quickly as possible, and early 2011 by their reasoning lasts until the end of Q2, so they have about 9 months to ship product to make their date.
But, the purpose of this is to delay customers from buying competing products. By saying early 2011, people (including some in this thread) are thinking, Jan-Mar, but that's totally implausible, other than some prototype units. If they can't make June, they'll simply announce that it's slightly delayed and will be here real soon now.
If this is so common name me 3 companies that announced a product to ship in the next 3-5 months for which absolutely nothing for the product exists at the time of the annoncement. Mind you Dick Applebaum claims that nothing about the product currently exists, hence his claim that it will be a year before it ships. Btw at the launch event, the president of QNX claimed they had been working on the os for about a year.
RIM gave THREE different shipping dates: next month for enterprise/developers, early 2010 for generall US release, and Q2 for international. They won't be that specific if they weren't close to final release.
The new Blackberries with OS 6 came out pretty soon after the "concept video". The actual devices came out pretty close in performance to the concept video --- the only complaint so far has been that it's underpowered by the slow cpu. If these blackberries came out with a 1 GHz CPU, then it would have been perfectly mirroring the concept video.
Not having seen the BB6 concept video to compare, I can only say that, based on this video, and what information they did release, I don't believe this will be released before Summer 2011, in the US, or elsewhere.
If this is so common name me 3 companies that announced a product to ship in the next 3-5 months for which absolutely nothing for the product exists at the time of the annoncement. Mind you Dick Applebaum claims that nothing about the product currently exists, hence his claim that it will be a year before it ships. Btw at the launch event, the president of QNX claimed they had been working on the os for about a year.
Well, since I never claimed "nothing" exists for this tablet, I don't see why validation of my comment should be held to your interpretation of someone else's comment that may have nothing to do with mine.
But, as far as 3 companies (and there are probably thousands of these, but who keeps track of them all) who have announced products nowhere near ready to ship:
1. Microsoft - Access (arguably, not ready to ship when it did ship)
2. Google - Chrome OS
3. Palm - webOS
The last one, while certainly not the biggest lag in announcement to shipment, is included to point out that it was 6 months from announcement to product shipping. So, at least 6 months to actual shipping tablets, is not at all far-fetched in this case.
IF ONLY THEY'D RELEASE IT THIS YEAR INSTEAD OF NEXT YEAR IT WOULD'VE MADE A KILLING. TOO BAD.. By the time they release it next year, iPad 2 and others will be out. .
i think you are pretty much right. Now on the notin of Apple etc using this info to outdo the Playbook. Whatever they were going to do has been done and is being tested by now.
but this up to 6 more months of waiting is giving folks more time to decide not to wait and to try an ipad, buy an ipad and become entrenched in it. So when Apple reveals ipad 2 the week before the Playbook comes out those folks will be less likely to jump ship and will wait the month for the ipad release. That is if the typically rampant rumors don't already have them ready to stick around.
This was an issue with the Slate and such as well. They had a prime chance during the 60-90 days before the ipad was out and during all that 'can't keep them in stock','won't let folks buy more than 2' stuff. They blew it. RIM has done the same thing. Even just focusing on businesses isn't a sure thing because tons of businesses are using ipads.
Not having seen the BB6 concept video to compare, I can only say that, based on this video, and what information they did release, I don't believe this will be released before Summer 2011, in the US, or elsewhere.
RIM released the BB OS 6 teaser video at the end of April 2010, and the first BB OS 6 phone came out in Sept --- about 4.5 months. Put 4.5 months from today and you get a mid February release.
RIM released the BB OS 6 teaser video at the end of April 2010, and the first BB OS 6 phone came out in Sept --- about 4.5 months. Put 4.5 months from today and you get a mid February release.
Yes, but, as I said, I have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, so cannot compare what was shown there vs. eventual release date to what was shown in the PlayBook teaser video vs ETA. Based on the PlayBook teaser video, I think they are at least 6 months out. (And, I'm not willing to accept your word they are comparable.) At least we are agreed it's nothing but a teaser video, though.
Yes, but, as I said, I have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, so cannot compare what was shown there vs. eventual release date to what was shown in the PlayBook teaser video vs ETA. Based on the PlayBook teaser video, I think they are at least 6 months out. (And, I'm not willing to accept your word they are comparable.) At least we are agreed it's nothing but a teaser video, though.
If you have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, then watch it before you start posting dozens of comments about it. What you are doing is --- in legal terms --- willful blindness.
If you have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, then watch it before you start posting dozens of comments about it. What you are doing is --- in legal terms --- willful blindness.
I haven't posted any comments about the BB OS 6 teaser video, other than to say I haven't seen it.
I haven't posted any comments about the BB OS 6 teaser video, other than to say I haven't seen it.
So instead of spending 3 minutes of your time to watch the BB OS 6 teaser video, you spent that 3 minutes writing numerous comments on how you haven't seen the video.
Yes, but, as I said, I have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, so cannot compare what was shown there vs. eventual release date to what was shown in the PlayBook teaser video vs ETA. Based on the PlayBook teaser video, I think they are at least 6 months out. (And, I'm not willing to accept your word they are comparable.) At least we are agreed it's nothing but a teaser video, though.
Basically you are stating that you are uninformed and wish to remain that way so that that you can keep making wild assumptions, but here you go.
Yup, if you understand it as just an ad, doing the things ads always try to do, you will be able to stay in your shoes. Others have made the same observation as I have, but haven't stuck around to defend them. FWIW, I have a feeling that RIM will follow up this tease with a more substantial introduction. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? Personally, I don't think RIM is going to completely squander their reputation by failing to introduce the product, something very like the one they've teased about. That's the implication I've heard expressed several times in this thread. I've challenged this implication several times, and had zero response to my question about how someone could apparently believe that RIM is a very stupid company. I've seen no evidence of this, so I'm genuinely curious.
I think there's likely to be a substantive difference between how Apple depicts its stuff (via ads, product roll-outs, demos, whatever you like) and the RIM piece in question. I say "likely" because we haven't seen the finished product and it could hover in midair with friggin' laser beams, for all I know.
iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch ads (regular iPod ads are a bit different because it has become so ubiquitous as to make any question of "how does that work?" irrelevant, for advertising purposes) always show the device in use, emphasizing the UI, apps, and any aspects of physicality Apple is interested in touting. And yes, they use music, editing and production design to make the whole thing look fun, or hip, or empowering, or whatever. But the important thing is that what is being depicted is precisely how those devices in fact look and behave, however festive the alleged circumstance and however pretty the hand models may be.
My question regarding the Rim video is specifically about whether the UI, apps and physicality as shown will correspond to the device as shipped. If they don't-- if RIM (as Nokia before it) has elected to indulge in some exaggeration or wishful thinking in terms of the speed and fluidity of their UI, or the slickness of their transitions, or the manner in which one might reasonably be expected to manipulate and operate the device-- then this is something that Apple never, ever does, and a difference in kind rather than degree.
This actually gets into a larger difference between Apple's ad strategy and pretty much every other handset maker: despite the mockery of Jobs' use of "magical" as a product descriptor, it's Apple that just puts the device itself on the screen and lets the user interactions speak for themselves, whereas the others attempt to generate a sense of mystery or wonder or magical empowerment by showing, not the device in use, but urban spaces transformed, the user transformed, phone as ray gun, phone as drug, phone as portal to alternate universe, etc.
To that extent the RIM thing is actually relatively constrained (although I would guess the UI doesn't actually appear on the things around you) but unless it can actually do exactly what they show it's still a victim of "magical" thinking.
You're right, I should have watched it. Having done so, I would say that BBOS6 was much more a finished concept, and that I don't expect to see PlayBook tablets released before June 2011.
Comments
I think it's time for you to "man up" and admit that you neither know or care to know what I am talking about, and that your mission is to make others misunderstand it too.
See what I mean about your DNA? ... Still avoiding the obvious and trying to shift the blame elsewhere. .... nice
Be prepared for drawing and quartering, but only after tarring and feathering.
Way back when this thread was a mere youngster, I mentioned what I thought were RIM's substantial challenges to making a success out of this product. For sure it's going to be an uphill climb. But since I consider them to be a competent company with a large and fairly loyal customer base, I certainly would not count them out before they even enter the ring -- which is what many here appear so anxious to do, merely on the strength (or weakness) of one video.
I don't think anyone is counting them out based solely on the video. Their chances of success are being discounted a) based on the point they are in producing this (very early), b) their to-date lackluster success at producing touchscreen devices, and c) their likelihood of not being able to attract significant enough mind share to their device given the competition for the same from iOS and Android.
I don't think anyone is counting them out based solely on the video. Their chances of success are being discounted a) based on the point they are in producing this (very early), b) their to-date lackluster success at producing touchscreen devices, and c) their likelihood of not being able to attract significant enough mind share to their device given the competition for the same from iOS and Android.
and d) not made by Apple
The fact of the matter is that BB has higher market share in North America than iOS or Android, and their phones offer greater encryption. If this integrates well with BB devices, I can see it doing well. Sure it won't have the apps or the mindshare of the iPad, but it will likely have its place in the market. It may turn out to be a very successful product for RIM.
You don't have to outsell the iPad, or even take sales from the iPad to have a successful tablet as it appears like the market for tablets is going to expand rapidly and Apple won't fill it all.
It's entirely mistaken to equate these in any way. There's a huge difference between walking on stage and demoing an actual product prototype, a finished prototype, and showing a concept video. There's a huge difference between showing working screen shots and, again, a concept video. And there's a huge difference between "early 2011" and "60 days". The PlayBook will not be here in 3 months (early January), and it most likely won't be here in 6 months (early April), maybe in 9 months (end of June, technically still "early" (vs. late) 2011), or maybe it will slip into Q3... or Q4.
So, this is why everyone is disagreeing with you.
EDIT: The reason why I, and apparently others, don't believe this will be shipping in 3 months, and probably not in 6 months, is that you can tell from the video that it's an unfinished design. (Thus why I called it a "concept video" and others have referred to it as "fake") RIM has a ton of work to even finish this on the drawing board, let alone get it into production and bring it to market. It's just not reasonable to expect that they'll be able to do this in a shorter time frame.
RIM gave THREE different shipping dates: next month for enterprise/developers, early 2010 for generall US release, and Q2 for international. They won't be that specific if they weren't close to final release.
The new Blackberries with OS 6 came out pretty soon after the "concept video". The actual devices came out pretty close in performance to the concept video --- the only complaint so far has been that it's underpowered by the slow cpu. If these blackberries came out with a 1 GHz CPU, then it would have been perfectly mirroring the concept video.
.
In effect, I think this means the PlayBook (at least, initially) will have sort of a hybrid QNX/Flash OS and SDK.
Just take a look at QNX CAR --- same concept. UI/Graphics designers are used to Adobe Flash, so QNX just put the skinning on Flash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f3WIn14fd0
and d) not made by Apple
The fact of the matter is that BB has higher market share in North America than iOS or Android, and their phones offer greater encryption. If this integrates well with BB devices, I can see it doing well. Sure it won't have the apps or the mindshare of the iPad, but it will likely have its place in the market. It may turn out to be a very successful product for RIM.
You don't have to outsell the iPad, or even take sales from the iPad to have a successful tablet as it appears like the market for tablets is going to expand rapidly and Apple won't fill it all.
Yes, but RIM has zero mind share for touchscreen devices, and practically zero mind share with developers, as opposed to (my point (c)) iOS and Android.
Companies do this shit all the time. The RIM tablet at this point exists only on paper. They have an OS that runs on the processor they are planning to use, they will copy UI from the iPad (like Samsung), webOS, etc., the SDK is Web+Flash, so they don't have anything to produce for developers (the choice of dev tools is another indication that this is a hacked together rush job, btw), and the hardware design will be a mashup of the Torch and iPad. They will try to cobble this together as quickly as possible, and early 2011 by their reasoning lasts until the end of Q2, so they have about 9 months to ship product to make their date.
But, the purpose of this is to delay customers from buying competing products. By saying early 2011, people (including some in this thread) are thinking, Jan-Mar, but that's totally implausible, other than some prototype units. If they can't make June, they'll simply announce that it's slightly delayed and will be here real soon now.
If this is so common name me 3 companies that announced a product to ship in the next 3-5 months for which absolutely nothing for the product exists at the time of the annoncement. Mind you Dick Applebaum claims that nothing about the product currently exists, hence his claim that it will be a year before it ships. Btw at the launch event, the president of QNX claimed they had been working on the os for about a year.
RIM gave THREE different shipping dates: next month for enterprise/developers, early 2010 for generall US release, and Q2 for international. They won't be that specific if they weren't close to final release.
The new Blackberries with OS 6 came out pretty soon after the "concept video". The actual devices came out pretty close in performance to the concept video --- the only complaint so far has been that it's underpowered by the slow cpu. If these blackberries came out with a 1 GHz CPU, then it would have been perfectly mirroring the concept video.
Not having seen the BB6 concept video to compare, I can only say that, based on this video, and what information they did release, I don't believe this will be released before Summer 2011, in the US, or elsewhere.
If this is so common name me 3 companies that announced a product to ship in the next 3-5 months for which absolutely nothing for the product exists at the time of the annoncement. Mind you Dick Applebaum claims that nothing about the product currently exists, hence his claim that it will be a year before it ships. Btw at the launch event, the president of QNX claimed they had been working on the os for about a year.
Well, since I never claimed "nothing" exists for this tablet, I don't see why validation of my comment should be held to your interpretation of someone else's comment that may have nothing to do with mine.
But, as far as 3 companies (and there are probably thousands of these, but who keeps track of them all) who have announced products nowhere near ready to ship:
1. Microsoft - Access (arguably, not ready to ship when it did ship)
2. Google - Chrome OS
3. Palm - webOS
The last one, while certainly not the biggest lag in announcement to shipment, is included to point out that it was 6 months from announcement to product shipping. So, at least 6 months to actual shipping tablets, is not at all far-fetched in this case.
IF ONLY THEY'D RELEASE IT THIS YEAR INSTEAD OF NEXT YEAR IT WOULD'VE MADE A KILLING. TOO BAD.. By the time they release it next year, iPad 2 and others will be out. .
i think you are pretty much right. Now on the notin of Apple etc using this info to outdo the Playbook. Whatever they were going to do has been done and is being tested by now.
but this up to 6 more months of waiting is giving folks more time to decide not to wait and to try an ipad, buy an ipad and become entrenched in it. So when Apple reveals ipad 2 the week before the Playbook comes out those folks will be less likely to jump ship and will wait the month for the ipad release. That is if the typically rampant rumors don't already have them ready to stick around.
This was an issue with the Slate and such as well. They had a prime chance during the 60-90 days before the ipad was out and during all that 'can't keep them in stock','won't let folks buy more than 2' stuff. They blew it. RIM has done the same thing. Even just focusing on businesses isn't a sure thing because tons of businesses are using ipads.
Not having seen the BB6 concept video to compare, I can only say that, based on this video, and what information they did release, I don't believe this will be released before Summer 2011, in the US, or elsewhere.
RIM released the BB OS 6 teaser video at the end of April 2010, and the first BB OS 6 phone came out in Sept --- about 4.5 months. Put 4.5 months from today and you get a mid February release.
RIM released the BB OS 6 teaser video at the end of April 2010, and the first BB OS 6 phone came out in Sept --- about 4.5 months. Put 4.5 months from today and you get a mid February release.
Yes, but, as I said, I have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, so cannot compare what was shown there vs. eventual release date to what was shown in the PlayBook teaser video vs ETA. Based on the PlayBook teaser video, I think they are at least 6 months out. (And, I'm not willing to accept your word they are comparable.) At least we are agreed it's nothing but a teaser video, though.
Yes, but, as I said, I have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, so cannot compare what was shown there vs. eventual release date to what was shown in the PlayBook teaser video vs ETA. Based on the PlayBook teaser video, I think they are at least 6 months out. (And, I'm not willing to accept your word they are comparable.) At least we are agreed it's nothing but a teaser video, though.
If you have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, then watch it before you start posting dozens of comments about it. What you are doing is --- in legal terms --- willful blindness.
If you have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, then watch it before you start posting dozens of comments about it. What you are doing is --- in legal terms --- willful blindness.
I haven't posted any comments about the BB OS 6 teaser video, other than to say I haven't seen it.
I haven't posted any comments about the BB OS 6 teaser video, other than to say I haven't seen it.
So instead of spending 3 minutes of your time to watch the BB OS 6 teaser video, you spent that 3 minutes writing numerous comments on how you haven't seen the video.
How is it professional when it's called PlayBook. that's so awful!
Well, MacBook was already taken...
Yes, but, as I said, I have not seen the BB OS 6 teaser video, so cannot compare what was shown there vs. eventual release date to what was shown in the PlayBook teaser video vs ETA. Based on the PlayBook teaser video, I think they are at least 6 months out. (And, I'm not willing to accept your word they are comparable.) At least we are agreed it's nothing but a teaser video, though.
Basically you are stating that you are uninformed and wish to remain that way so that that you can keep making wild assumptions, but here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAwEx8WmWEk
Yup, if you understand it as just an ad, doing the things ads always try to do, you will be able to stay in your shoes. Others have made the same observation as I have, but haven't stuck around to defend them. FWIW, I have a feeling that RIM will follow up this tease with a more substantial introduction. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? Personally, I don't think RIM is going to completely squander their reputation by failing to introduce the product, something very like the one they've teased about. That's the implication I've heard expressed several times in this thread. I've challenged this implication several times, and had zero response to my question about how someone could apparently believe that RIM is a very stupid company. I've seen no evidence of this, so I'm genuinely curious.
I think there's likely to be a substantive difference between how Apple depicts its stuff (via ads, product roll-outs, demos, whatever you like) and the RIM piece in question. I say "likely" because we haven't seen the finished product and it could hover in midair with friggin' laser beams, for all I know.
iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch ads (regular iPod ads are a bit different because it has become so ubiquitous as to make any question of "how does that work?" irrelevant, for advertising purposes) always show the device in use, emphasizing the UI, apps, and any aspects of physicality Apple is interested in touting. And yes, they use music, editing and production design to make the whole thing look fun, or hip, or empowering, or whatever. But the important thing is that what is being depicted is precisely how those devices in fact look and behave, however festive the alleged circumstance and however pretty the hand models may be.
My question regarding the Rim video is specifically about whether the UI, apps and physicality as shown will correspond to the device as shipped. If they don't-- if RIM (as Nokia before it) has elected to indulge in some exaggeration or wishful thinking in terms of the speed and fluidity of their UI, or the slickness of their transitions, or the manner in which one might reasonably be expected to manipulate and operate the device-- then this is something that Apple never, ever does, and a difference in kind rather than degree.
This actually gets into a larger difference between Apple's ad strategy and pretty much every other handset maker: despite the mockery of Jobs' use of "magical" as a product descriptor, it's Apple that just puts the device itself on the screen and lets the user interactions speak for themselves, whereas the others attempt to generate a sense of mystery or wonder or magical empowerment by showing, not the device in use, but urban spaces transformed, the user transformed, phone as ray gun, phone as drug, phone as portal to alternate universe, etc.
To that extent the RIM thing is actually relatively constrained (although I would guess the UI doesn't actually appear on the things around you) but unless it can actually do exactly what they show it's still a victim of "magical" thinking.
Basically you are stating that you are uninformed and wish to remain that way so that that you can keep making wild assumptions, but here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAwEx8WmWEk
You're right, I should have watched it. Having done so, I would say that BBOS6 was much more a finished concept, and that I don't expect to see PlayBook tablets released before June 2011.