Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets

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  • Reply 201 of 333
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


    Sprint support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a Windows Mobile OS problem. You will need to contact Microsoft customer support...



    Microsoft support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a hardware problem. You will need to contact HTC customer support...



    HTC support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a network problem. You will need to contact Sprint customer support...





    Give me a break.



    This is a true story.



    A colleague of mine got iPhone 4 recently (here in New Zealand). He knew about antenna problem, but for some reason didn't pay much attention nor follow up, and believed problem was sorted somehow.



    After a few dropped calls, once he realised, he gave Vodafone NZ an angry call to complain about the problem. Vodafone NZ support people replied he must be wrong because dropping calls was problem only in US and is not happening in NZ.



    Huh???



    Having clueless customer support is very common around the globe. Even if Apple support is that much better than other phone manufacturers, you still depend on other supports - in this case network support.



    My colleague actually trained himself to hold phone correctly and is one happy-chappy today.
  • Reply 202 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I think it's an interesting ad, well done, but I think what they're selling (we can get you-- or perhaps more pointedly those other dicks who keep ramming into you-- involved in life again by making your phone so easy to use you rarely have to look at it) is nonsensical.



    You're right that it might stir some interest, but I can't see that translating into sales. Windows Phone 7 will sink or swim on its merits, not some high concept "this fixes a terrible wrong" campaign.



    The ads don't need to make sense.



    Look at the entire "I'm a Mac" ad campaign, none of them made a great amount of sense. The idea was that if you are overweight, old, ugly, dull and/or stupid you own a PC, and if you are sexy, young, cool, creative and/or smart you own a Mac. A lot of people still believe this, such was the strength of the campaign.



    Most advertising is like this. Flip through the first 20 pages of a womans magazine and I bet you won't come across any tech specs or descriptions of why product X is better than product Y just a whole lot of "look at all of the beautiful famous people using our product".
  • Reply 203 of 333
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don?t recall Steve Jobs marketing what will be over what they have currently. Show me one interview where Apple is pimping their current products by pimping features they would obviously add at some future date. Even the day before the iOS 4.0 demonstration multitasking still was just a rumour. Same goes for cut/copy/paste in iPhone OS 3.0.



    I don't see anything wrong telling potential customers what to expect in the next update (and when is it expected). One way or another you have to wait for missing features, not knowing if they will come at all doesn't really beat knowing that they are in the pipeline.
  • Reply 204 of 333
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    I must have hit a nerve. A few points. Yes, this is an Apple board, but in spite of that, Apple is not the center of the Universe. Also, I said Apple, not iPhone, you should learn to read.



    A few issues.



    1. MS is creating an ecosystem for Windows users similar to that for Mac users with iTunes etc. There is no incentive for a Mac User to a WP7 phone.

    2. There is no support for Mac users at all in WP7, hence Apple is not a target.

    3. BB does Business well, entertainment, not so much. The WP7 phone does both. Hence, BB is a target.

    4. Android has no unified ecosystem, WP7 does, hence Android is a target.

    5. Windows users who have an iPhone. Depending on the person there may be an incentive to switch (e.g., active Xbox gamer with Live account), but for some Windows users there will not be a compelling reason to switch. Hence, the iPhone is only indirectly a target.



    See, if you stop and take some time to think about things, it is not all that hard.



    You have very original, albeit technically correct point of view



    However... if MS manages to persuade any significant number of PC users to move from iPhone and iTunes to a platform (promised to be) better integrated with their deskops & laptops, then it really require some extra imagination to conclude Apple is not a target.



    I know number of people having iPhones, and none of them has Mac. True, Apple ecosystem users will not dump iPhone for WP7 even if later does support OSX, but iPhone's success is achieved by its capability to leave limited circle of OSX users and spread among Windows users as well.



    And by targeting those Windows users, MS is targeting Apple's market share, current or future.



    Or do you believe there are more OSX users than Windows users among iPhone owners..?
  • Reply 205 of 333
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    I don't see anything wrong telling potential customers what to expect in the next update (and when is it expected). One way or another you have to wait for missing features, not knowing if they will come at all doesn't really beat knowing that they are in the pipeline.



    Apple does that, but usually after they have solidified the features and changes, which for iOS means there is a few months before it?s released and the iPhone HW gets a few weeks.



    Mac OS X needs a much longer lead time for development and testing and so that is longer. As a result of that extra time there have been enticing ?promises? made that never came to fruition. And even with these short lead times Apple misses self imposed deadlines. That?s the nature of this beast and that is expected the farther out you announce a product.



    What Apple doesn?t do is try to stall a market with what call vapourware. Surely there is a middle ground between how Apple operates in secrecy and what others do to generate free press and stall buyers if you are companies like MS, but I?ll take Apple?s method any day over one that ?promises? things may not actually arrive.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    if MS manages to persuade any significant number of PC users to move from iPhone and iTunes to a platform (promised to be) better integrated with their deskops & laptops, then it really require some extra imagination to conclude Apple is not a target.



    Apple and the iPhone are surely targets as all smartphones are targets but as I read his post I see that is implying that Apple is not the target that will be hit the first or hardest. If MS can pull off the ecosystem and pull people from iTunes that will be big, but it will be slow moving, especially compared to WP7-based phones taking a huge chunk of purchases away from Blackberrys and Android-based phones.
  • Reply 206 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


    Back to topic, I'm sorry aesthetics do matter, and these widgets or tiles sure are ugly... IMO.

    Here's hopeing iOS 5 has some limited widgets.



    In the end, how much more stuff(useful hardware stuff) can they cram into these phones? Next big thing seems to be local data xfer(pay via credit card, control tv etc). Darn, off topic again, sorry.



    iOS will definitely "copy" MS this way - make the lock screen more functional. Show how many mails are waiting, some schedules, and what I need is reminders/to do on the lock screen... And that will be a nice improvement to iOS. Users can customise how informational or how simple their lock screen will be.
  • Reply 207 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chocolim View Post


    How long you wait for reals apps in the phone?

    How long you wait for copy & paste?

    How long you wait for multitask?

    How long you wait for stereo audio via bluetooth? if you go to the gym with wires headphones, you blow it



    Quite right. Version One of whatever MS is peddling here will be going up against a mature, battle-tested and highly-polished iOS from Apple. As if that weren't enough, the integration of software to hardware just won't be as good, since MS makes only the software.



    MS just can't compete with Apple in this space. They'll pick up third place, at BEST, and will take share away from Nokia, Android, etc. Not Apple.



    And they'll try to differentiate by competing on PRICE, which means all the non-Apple players will have fewer profits to plow back into R&D and new designs. Which means next year's phones won't be much different from this year's (except for including whatever new tech is developed by their suppliers). There'll be no real innovation. They'll just wait and see what Apple does, and try to catch up. (As usual.) They'll put lipstick on it, market that as 'new' and call it a day.



    Ballmer & Company are a joke without a punchline. Pathetic, lost and hopeless.
  • Reply 208 of 333
    Yet another phone (this time a whole new phone OS) with no Flash on it. Where are all these Full Internet phones we've been promised by Adobe et al. ?



    Not so much a jab at MS but everyone that says iPhone fails because control freak Jobs don't want no Flash.



    The fact of the matter is many phones are not powerful enough to run Flash, Froyo 2.2 is on a much smaller percentage of new and current phones than one might think, and WP7, Symbian and BB all don't have Flash. Not looking good for Adobe.



    If WP7 starts giving Android a run for its money that means essentially of all the OSes for phones only Android has Flash, marginalising Flash even more.
  • Reply 209 of 333
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    The ads don't need to make sense.



    Look at the entire "I'm a Mac" ad campaign, none of them made a great amount of sense. The idea was that if you are overweight, old, ugly, dull and/or stupid you own a PC, and if you are sexy, young, cool, creative and/or smart you own a Mac. A lot of people still believe this, such was the strength of the campaign.



    No. That was absolutely not the point of those ads. The point was to stress the idea that Macs are relatively trouble fee, not beset by the security and complexity problems of PCs and to do so in a fairly light-hearted, not mean spirited way. The characters in the ads were intended as personifications of the computers themselves, not their users.



    At any rate, pitching the Mac as funner and less prone to problems than PCs makes perfect sense. Sure the truth of that is arguable, but it's not incoherent.



    OTOH, pitching your cell phone as the solution to cell phones is incoherent. Acting as if the epidemic of cell zombies is somehow a problem addressable with a new phone OS is incoherent.



    Quote:

    Most advertising is like this. Flip through the first 20 pages of a womans magazine and I bet you won't come across any tech specs or descriptions of why product X is better than product Y just a whole lot of "look at all of the beautiful famous people using our product".



    Most advertising makes appeals to the emotions, vanity, sex, etc. (although interestingly Apple general skips all that and just shows their products doing stuff in a fun way).



    Again, the Windows Phone 7 ad doesn't do any of that, it just presents a flatly self-contradictory idea. Just because much advertising isn't particularly logical doesn't mean it doesn't make a certain kind of sense. I don't think the ad in question makes any kind of sense.
  • Reply 210 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If MS can pull off the ecosystem and pull people from iTunes that will be big, but it will be slow moving, especially compared to WP7-based phones taking a huge chunk of purchases away from Blackberry and Android-based phones.



    I completely agree with this. I see comments from people that have totally invested themselves in the Apple eco-system saying things like "I don't see the point in switching to WP7"... the answer for them is simply "you shouldn't".



    However if someone is a BB or Android user, or an Xbox gamer, or work for a business that utilizes Microsoft products... then there is a reason to look at WP7.









    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Surely there is a middle ground between how Apple operates in secrecy and what others do to generate free press and stall buyers if you are companies like MS, but I?ll take Apple?s method any day over one that ?promises? things may not actually arrive.



    This I'm not so sure of. "Vapor-ware" is bad, that's a given.



    However a road-map is important, especially for business. Company wide decisions can be made with months or even years of lead time. That's assuming that promises made are actually delivered.
  • Reply 211 of 333
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    What a horrible ad. Sure it is pretty but seeing the back of the phone does nothing to sell the phone.



    As cheesy as the iphone/ipod/ipad ads are, at least we are seeing the device in action



    Microsoft is trying to sell the phone as a device to not use. Doesn't really work when you don't show why you won't be navel gazing at it all the time



    Ha: Fanboy! Apple didn't show a Mac on TV for 4 years through their "I'm a Mac" campaign.
  • Reply 212 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    If this has been posted elsewhere, you'll excuse me I'm sure.



    Windows Phone Really? Ad



    Some ad company got a nice bit of dough from MS... That said, while the promise is interesting, the best feature of this fancy new phone is that you use this fancy new phone less. Ambitious.
  • Reply 213 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Again, the Windows Phone 7 ad doesn't do any of that, it just presents a flatly self-contradictory idea. Just because much advertising isn't particularly logical doesn't mean it doesn't make a certain kind of sense. I don't think the ad in question makes any kind of sense.



    Sounds like you don't really understand advertising. That's cool, don't stress on it.
  • Reply 214 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    I agree that the WP7 looks quite credible. But I think MS would be stupid to target Apple. Apple is not their rival here.



    Their real target should be Android. Their goal is persuading Android manufacturers to switch to MS. And I think the way to do that is to keep pushing their "delightful" and "personal" selling points.



    I agree. MS has been slow to execute in this space. The Kin was irrelevant by the time it reached market, and offered no upgrade path for Danger Hiptop customers, assuming the were going after the same customer base. I'm sure they had the intention of shooting for the market leader when they started this project, and that was Apple. Apple still has the mindshare, so it's probably a good thing that they compare themselves to Apple, but I do think that when WP7 cannibalizes sales, it will be Android customers, not iPhone customers. Most Apple fans would not give up the iOS platform that easily. I also think MS is in it for the long haul, so they might not see any marketshare reversal until 2012, but I doubt they'll kill it as quickly as they did Kin if it sells slowly.
  • Reply 215 of 333
    Zunetastic!!!!! I think I just squirted myself.
  • Reply 216 of 333
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,903member
    The tiles thing seems like a good idea. Sure the colors are gaudy and the design is a little busy, but the at-a-glance info is cool. I'd like something similar on my iPhone.



    The multi-colored tiny text on the Agenda screen would be very hard to read I think.
  • Reply 217 of 333
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    You have very original, albeit technically correct point of view



    However... if MS manages to persuade any significant number of PC users to move from iPhone and iTunes to a platform (promised to be) better integrated with their deskops & laptops, then it really require some extra imagination to conclude Apple is not a target.



    I know number of people having iPhones, and none of them has Mac. True, Apple ecosystem users will not dump iPhone for WP7 even if later does support OSX, but iPhone's success is achieved by its capability to leave limited circle of OSX users and spread among Windows users as well.



    And by targeting those Windows users, MS is targeting Apple's market share, current or future.



    Or do you believe there are more OSX users than Windows users among iPhone owners..?



    Solipsism said it quite rightly . I would only add a couple of things.



    First, I think MS is turning itself around (Windows 7 is quite good, Bing is now the second search engine, etc), and many of the posters here that blithely dismiss MS as an extinct irrelevant dinosaur sound a lot like MS fans in the 90's re: Apple. We all know how that turned out.



    That said, when you look at Android, you get the feeling that the iPhone was in the cross hairs the entire time it was being designed. Android was built explicitly to take on the iPhone.



    WP7 feels different (although I could be wrong). I think MS sat down, knew they were getting killed, and they knew they had to do something different. So they looked at all the phones, saw what was good and bad, and tried to build something that filled in all or most of the gaps. As such, Apple was not the direct target the way it was with Android.



    I also think that Apple saw the potential threat of WP7, and addressed some of the holes in iOS to fend off MS. Hence we now have Ping, Game Center, and maybe subscription music services, all of which MS has had for a long time, and all of which have been highlighted by MS since the announcement in February. I could be wrong in this, but the coincidence of WP7 release and a slew of new features in iOS is interesting.
  • Reply 218 of 333
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    Sounds like you don't really understand advertising. That's cool, don't stress on it.



    Yeah, that must be it.



    So do you have any actual observations re the difference between emotional appeals and incoherent appeals? Or are you just going to go with stock internet douche move #12 and call it a day?
  • Reply 219 of 333
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don?t recall Steve Jobs marketing what will be over what they have currently. Show me one interview where Apple is pimping their current products by pimping features they would obviously add at some future date. Even the day before the iOS 4.0 demonstration multitasking still was just a rumour. Same goes for cut/copy/paste in iPhone OS 3.0.



    Tethering for OS 3.0, didn't come out in the US until almost a year later (but you'll blame this one on ATT, fair enough)



    -Game Center (huge part of OS4.0 announcement, didn't launch with it, said it would come in an update)

    -airplay (Big part of the ipod announcement, won't be on the main device they pimped it on, the ipad, until November)

    -OS 4.0 for ipad



    I'm sure there are more, but as all those happened in the last few months, I figured that was as good a spot to start as any.
  • Reply 220 of 333
    djdjdjdj Posts: 74member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbonner View Post


    Hmmm, except the Kin and Zune.



    I quite like my Zune HD. I much prefer it over my iPod Touch for music.
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