So do you have any actual observations re the difference between emotional appeals and incoherent appeals? Or are you just going to go with stock internet douche move #12 and call it a day?
I wasn't being facetious. It actually sounds like you don't really get how this kind of advertising works, and that's fine. If you can't understand it you probably aren't affected by it either, which with the constant barrage of advertising is, in many ways, an enviable position to be it.
Attempting to keep it more literal the WP7 ad goes something like this... "sometimes it appears that smartphone users are so absorbed in their phones that they miss out on the world around them. If you don't see yourself as that kind of person, or don't want to be that kind of person, you should have a look at WP7"
WP7 doesn't need to project information directly into your cerebrum just like Red Bull doesn't need to make you grow wings and Calvin Klein underpants don't need to make you look like a semi-naked David Beckham because they aren't describing a literal feature set, they are selling an idea.
As someone who has owned 2 iPhones (currently on an iPhone 4), I have to say I like Windows Phone a lot from what I've seen. Rather than just being an iOS clone (like Android), it's something new and original.
The hardware line-up is pretty ugly though, and curiously seems to top out at 16gb of storage. (64gb next time please) But I do like the idea of a choice of models, some with huge screens, and I like the idea of Xbox Live/Achievements, and allowing apps to integrate themselves fully into the phone. (such as Last FM plugging directly into the Zune app)
Sounds like a good start to me and I'll be watching closely. Plus the Zune desktop app is massively superior to the mess that is iTunes.
As someone who has owned 2 iPhones (currently on an iPhone 4), I have to say I like Windows Phone a lot from what I've seen. Rather than just being an iOS clone (like Android), it's something new and original.
The hardware line-up is pretty ugly though, and curiously seems to top out at 16gb of storage. (64gb next time please) But I do like the idea of a choice of models, some with huge screens, and I like the idea of Xbox Live/Achievements, and allowing apps to integrate themselves fully into the phone. (such as Last FM plugging directly into the Zune app)
Sounds like a good start to me and I'll be watching closely. Plus the Zune desktop app is massively superior to the mess that is iTunes.
The top memory is either 32 or 40 GB, it is not clear. There is an internal micro SD slot that accepts up to 32 GB. It needs to be installed before activation. It is not clear if this is in addition to (40 GB) or a replacement for (32 GB) the 8 GB that comes installed in the phone.
I gotta admit Windows Phone 7 looks great. Booth screens and videos. If it works as smooth as it looks I think it'll take a large cut of the cake.
I guess everyone would know that the freshly installed windows boots and works like anything. The moment it is not rebooted & lots of applications are installed you will see the "true colors". and then there will be bugs with Service packs as fixes which will bring the OS to its knees.
Actually, I think I would disagree with you here. What Microsoft is doing (and certainly MUST do) with this release is two fold. Differentiate from the Apple GUI benchmark (where Android went, instead of the BB model GUI). And play to their "strengths".
So first, differentiate. With Android being the primary eroder of the WinPhone market on the usual handsets and all the carriers - they need to address that. This does it rather successfully - it is different than the Android platform GUI which is necessary - but still on familiar hardware and all the carriers. You KNOW they will partner with the handset makers to BOGO or market the crap out of these, and incentivize downscaling Android - whether by lawsuit or by licensing. They will incentivize the carriers in the usual manner.
Second, playing to their strengths. While you may not think of Zune as anyone's idea of a strength - XBox arguably is. And if you can combine services delivery between the two systems - so much the better. Whether they have the right approach remains to be seen. XBox requires a fair amount of overhead, so that is not a given. Office - that's a given. Do they have a decent touch interface for the platform - not from what I've seen so far - but that can change. The tiles thing is a meh in my book, too much fishing for where things are - especially as my needs change as i move from work mode to play mode.
I don't see the iPhone productivity/usability thing as an Achilles heel issue. In fact the jugular as I mentioned previously is on the Android platform or the Blackberry/RIM platform. Apple has never been seen as a threat from the corporate side to Redmond, and isn't now. No, these are targeting RIM and Google - RIM for its intrusion into corporate delivery systems - Microsoft want's you off those BES and solely on Exchange - with a native Exchange client on the WP7 device. And they want you on a handset running WP7, not Android - or at the very least running on a version of Android licensed by Microsoft. The number of business users from the corporate side who would actually do anything other than review docs on a smartphone is very small, and is not playing to the larger consumer market. Now it may well be a part of the market Microsoft wants nailed down in their OS, but it's not a larger market threat.
FWTW, I don't "hate" Microsoft. I carry a number of their certs as a professional, but I don't think they actually "get it" in the same way Apple gets it from a consumer perspective. And again, it LOOKS like they are not aiming ahead of the target with this - but I will be just as happy to be proven wrong on this.
RIM is gone for sure. Whether we like it or not Microsoft has a better integrated environment compared to RIM. And only those people using RIM who will not flock to WP7 are the ones who needs a keyboard (but there are WP7 with keyboards). But, it's the Exchange/office support that will bring all the RIM users to WP7.
Yes, but these are third party add-ons and at least one requires a jailbreak. I was talking about the basic functionality of the device as envisioned by the designers (Apple). Moving files around between iOS devices or between iOS devices and desktops is basically non-functional at this point. The kludge they use in iTunes to force files onto the device is counter-intutitve at best, buggy, and has different implementations depending on what app you are using.
It seems clear even to a casual observer that Apple doesn't *want* (at least so far), to allow users easy access to their files or an easy way to move files on and off the devices. Needless to say, I find this a huge barrier to productivity of any kind.
Apple usually quotes security concerns as the reason why they don't (when they comment at all), and they use the same excuse for not having a home screen that updates with useful information as almost every other device on the market has. I find these to be specious claims that are just handy to throw out as excuses.
Maybe they will fix all this stuff someday. I'm just tired of waiting.
1. You don't need to jailbreak for using ssh file server. It's built into the Pro version.
2. I agree the mechanism is not the obvious one as it not out of the box support. Probably they should have done this as the have the bonjour built into the OS ( I think the first step they are taking is adding the most obvious print support).
3. There are obvious security reasons behind live updating and displaying it on the screen as it might enable some one else to also see what they. Ideally it should have similar to the calendar APP which updates the date and displays it on the app and only a authorized user can see those and providing a push & pull mechanism on item basis.
Will security be an issue on this new phone? I don't know and probably no one else does either but is this a concern, especially since this is MSFT, or is this not an issue right now? Anyone care to speculate?
Or are you waiting on the Microsoft miracle that somehow as soon as they open they will outshine all the rest of the developers from all other platforms all over the globe that have worked their asses off these past years to actually make app stores a reality?
Most likely, the store will debut with pretty much every "must have" app that is currently in the apple store.
Also included will be many popular niche programs.
And my guess is that there will also be exclusive titles, unavailable in an apple version.
I?m talking about the AppleTV, I?m talking about iDevices like the iPhone, Touch and iPad being in the hands of people who are in the living room. What Apple hasn?t won is the TV or entertainment center in the living room.
Last night was typical around here.
TV on, kids looking at their cellphones, etc.
One kid had a brand new Droid X. WOW! That thing is GREAT! He was showing off videos on his huge screen.
Another had some sort of cheap keyboard phone. My kid used his netbook.
I found a cool video, plugged my laptop into the HDMI, and we watched on the 46 inch panel in 5.1 sound. My iPhone stayed in my pocket.
Yet another phone (this time a whole new phone OS) with no Flash on it. Where are all these Full Internet phones we've been promised by Adobe et al. ?
Not so much a jab at MS but everyone that says iPhone fails because control freak Jobs don't want no Flash.
The fact of the matter is many phones are not powerful enough to run Flash, Froyo 2.2 is on a much smaller percentage of new and current phones than one might think, and WP7, Symbian and BB all don't have Flash. Not looking good for Adobe.
If WP7 starts giving Android a run for its money that means essentially of all the OSes for phones only Android has Flash, marginalising Flash even more.
That was exactly what struck me first. All the Apple hating trolls constantly said it was only Apple who wouldn't / couldn't run Flash and now this new MS OS comes out without Flash. It has to make them wonder if they had it wrong .... nah ... they don't actually think.
I can not believe what I am looking at! These winthudd fonies ( spelling intentional )
They have really lost their minds. This stuff all looks so 20th century. I just can't believe a company with 10's of billions of dollars actually released these things.
Just to look at them hurts my eyes........Now, perhaps, the Microthudd illusion of viability will begin to fade. Or, are all the windows loyalists just really stupid?
If they sell a few thousand, that will be impressive. If they sell millions, I know which side of evolution I am truly on! .......ughhhhhhhhhh!
You just get an iphone because you can't be arsed to look over spec sheets from 9 phones and do a mini bibliographical report on them, just to get a damn phone, there are more important things in life than trying to figure out why these bozos had 9 phones out to begin with.
That's why I don't drive. I can't possibly choose which car to buy!
I wish somebody made just one model. That would be the manufacturer for me!
Tethering for OS 3.0, didn't come out in the US until almost a year later (but you'll blame this one on ATT, fair enough)
-Game Center (huge part of OS4.0 announcement, didn't launch with it, said it would come in an update)
-airplay (Big part of the ipod announcement, won't be on the main device they pimped it on, the ipad, until November)
-OS 4.0 for ipad
I'm sure there are more, but as all those happened in the last few months, I figured that was as good a spot to start as any.
Isn't the point though that if you know about these few things in Apple's pipe line you are reasonably confident they are not rumors? That is quite a contrast to the countless products and features that are openly announced as existing and turn out to be vaporware from certain companies. One has to suspect attempts to slow up or delay potential buying of Apple's products when this happens.
Of course, to be fair to MS, they may have in some cases, been showing things intended for production but pulled them when Apple made them obsolete over night. So production was halted. This may happen a lot to MS these days.
Will security be an issue on this new phone? I don't know and probably no one else does either but is this a concern, especially since this is MSFT, or is this not an issue right now? Anyone care to speculate?
Neal
WP7 should be more secure. No-one can really say until its been in the wild for a while though.
All applications must be installed via the application store.
All applications are sand-boxed.
All applications running on the Dot Net CLR which means the potential for better application profiling during the application store vetting process.
Apparently much stronger hardware based DRM so it's harder (or even impossible) to run unsigned code.
From memory Microsoft can push out "minor updates" (i.e. security patches) via an over-the-air update so flaws that do arise could potentially be patched without connecting the device to a PC.
apple has in no way won the 'living room'. and they aren't going to with that lame apple tv that just came out. that was the biggest let down of the year.
watching the old 'think different' ad on youtube the other day, i realized that apple today is not counterculture, it isn't 'revolutionary' (in the way they portray it) and it is about as relevant as Paul Mccartney (you admire him for what he did in the past but he isn't really doing much except entertaining the old folks at this point).
i should add the young too. its the computer made by Disney....
Comments
Yeah, that must be it.
So do you have any actual observations re the difference between emotional appeals and incoherent appeals? Or are you just going to go with stock internet douche move #12 and call it a day?
I wasn't being facetious. It actually sounds like you don't really get how this kind of advertising works, and that's fine. If you can't understand it you probably aren't affected by it either, which with the constant barrage of advertising is, in many ways, an enviable position to be it.
Attempting to keep it more literal the WP7 ad goes something like this... "sometimes it appears that smartphone users are so absorbed in their phones that they miss out on the world around them. If you don't see yourself as that kind of person, or don't want to be that kind of person, you should have a look at WP7"
WP7 doesn't need to project information directly into your cerebrum just like Red Bull doesn't need to make you grow wings and Calvin Klein underpants don't need to make you look like a semi-naked David Beckham because they aren't describing a literal feature set, they are selling an idea.
The hardware line-up is pretty ugly though, and curiously seems to top out at 16gb of storage. (64gb next time please) But I do like the idea of a choice of models, some with huge screens, and I like the idea of Xbox Live/Achievements, and allowing apps to integrate themselves fully into the phone. (such as Last FM plugging directly into the Zune app)
Sounds like a good start to me and I'll be watching closely. Plus the Zune desktop app is massively superior to the mess that is iTunes.
As someone who has owned 2 iPhones (currently on an iPhone 4), I have to say I like Windows Phone a lot from what I've seen. Rather than just being an iOS clone (like Android), it's something new and original.
The hardware line-up is pretty ugly though, and curiously seems to top out at 16gb of storage. (64gb next time please) But I do like the idea of a choice of models, some with huge screens, and I like the idea of Xbox Live/Achievements, and allowing apps to integrate themselves fully into the phone. (such as Last FM plugging directly into the Zune app)
Sounds like a good start to me and I'll be watching closely. Plus the Zune desktop app is massively superior to the mess that is iTunes.
The top memory is either 32 or 40 GB, it is not clear. There is an internal micro SD slot that accepts up to 32 GB. It needs to be installed before activation. It is not clear if this is in addition to (40 GB) or a replacement for (32 GB) the 8 GB that comes installed in the phone.
if MS manages to persuade any significant number of PC users to move from iPhone and iTunes to a platform
Not enough PC users in the worl or what? iPhone and iTunes is till a drop in the ocean.
I gotta admit Windows Phone 7 looks great. Booth screens and videos. If it works as smooth as it looks I think it'll take a large cut of the cake.
I guess everyone would know that the freshly installed windows boots and works like anything. The moment it is not rebooted & lots of applications are installed you will see the "true colors". and then there will be bugs with Service packs as fixes which will bring the OS to its knees.
Actually, I think I would disagree with you here. What Microsoft is doing (and certainly MUST do) with this release is two fold. Differentiate from the Apple GUI benchmark (where Android went, instead of the BB model GUI). And play to their "strengths".
So first, differentiate. With Android being the primary eroder of the WinPhone market on the usual handsets and all the carriers - they need to address that. This does it rather successfully - it is different than the Android platform GUI which is necessary - but still on familiar hardware and all the carriers. You KNOW they will partner with the handset makers to BOGO or market the crap out of these, and incentivize downscaling Android - whether by lawsuit or by licensing. They will incentivize the carriers in the usual manner.
Second, playing to their strengths. While you may not think of Zune as anyone's idea of a strength - XBox arguably is. And if you can combine services delivery between the two systems - so much the better. Whether they have the right approach remains to be seen. XBox requires a fair amount of overhead, so that is not a given. Office - that's a given. Do they have a decent touch interface for the platform - not from what I've seen so far - but that can change. The tiles thing is a meh in my book, too much fishing for where things are - especially as my needs change as i move from work mode to play mode.
I don't see the iPhone productivity/usability thing as an Achilles heel issue. In fact the jugular as I mentioned previously is on the Android platform or the Blackberry/RIM platform. Apple has never been seen as a threat from the corporate side to Redmond, and isn't now. No, these are targeting RIM and Google - RIM for its intrusion into corporate delivery systems - Microsoft want's you off those BES and solely on Exchange - with a native Exchange client on the WP7 device. And they want you on a handset running WP7, not Android - or at the very least running on a version of Android licensed by Microsoft. The number of business users from the corporate side who would actually do anything other than review docs on a smartphone is very small, and is not playing to the larger consumer market. Now it may well be a part of the market Microsoft wants nailed down in their OS, but it's not a larger market threat.
FWTW, I don't "hate" Microsoft. I carry a number of their certs as a professional, but I don't think they actually "get it" in the same way Apple gets it from a consumer perspective. And again, it LOOKS like they are not aiming ahead of the target with this - but I will be just as happy to be proven wrong on this.
RIM is gone for sure. Whether we like it or not Microsoft has a better integrated environment compared to RIM. And only those people using RIM who will not flock to WP7 are the ones who needs a keyboard (but there are WP7 with keyboards). But, it's the Exchange/office support that will bring all the RIM users to WP7.
Yes, but these are third party add-ons and at least one requires a jailbreak. I was talking about the basic functionality of the device as envisioned by the designers (Apple). Moving files around between iOS devices or between iOS devices and desktops is basically non-functional at this point. The kludge they use in iTunes to force files onto the device is counter-intutitve at best, buggy, and has different implementations depending on what app you are using.
It seems clear even to a casual observer that Apple doesn't *want* (at least so far), to allow users easy access to their files or an easy way to move files on and off the devices. Needless to say, I find this a huge barrier to productivity of any kind.
Apple usually quotes security concerns as the reason why they don't (when they comment at all), and they use the same excuse for not having a home screen that updates with useful information as almost every other device on the market has. I find these to be specious claims that are just handy to throw out as excuses.
Maybe they will fix all this stuff someday. I'm just tired of waiting.
1. You don't need to jailbreak for using ssh file server. It's built into the Pro version.
2. I agree the mechanism is not the obvious one as it not out of the box support. Probably they should have done this as the have the bonjour built into the OS ( I think the first step they are taking is adding the most obvious print support).
3. There are obvious security reasons behind live updating and displaying it on the screen as it might enable some one else to also see what they. Ideally it should have similar to the calendar APP which updates the date and displays it on the app and only a authorized user can see those and providing a push & pull mechanism on item basis.
Neal
Or are you waiting on the Microsoft miracle that somehow as soon as they open they will outshine all the rest of the developers from all other platforms all over the globe that have worked their asses off these past years to actually make app stores a reality?
Most likely, the store will debut with pretty much every "must have" app that is currently in the apple store.
Also included will be many popular niche programs.
And my guess is that there will also be exclusive titles, unavailable in an apple version.
I?m talking about the AppleTV, I?m talking about iDevices like the iPhone, Touch and iPad being in the hands of people who are in the living room. What Apple hasn?t won is the TV or entertainment center in the living room.
Last night was typical around here.
TV on, kids looking at their cellphones, etc.
One kid had a brand new Droid X. WOW! That thing is GREAT! He was showing off videos on his huge screen.
Another had some sort of cheap keyboard phone. My kid used his netbook.
I found a cool video, plugged my laptop into the HDMI, and we watched on the 46 inch panel in 5.1 sound. My iPhone stayed in my pocket.
Yet another phone (this time a whole new phone OS) with no Flash on it. Where are all these Full Internet phones we've been promised by Adobe et al. ?
Not so much a jab at MS but everyone that says iPhone fails because control freak Jobs don't want no Flash.
The fact of the matter is many phones are not powerful enough to run Flash, Froyo 2.2 is on a much smaller percentage of new and current phones than one might think, and WP7, Symbian and BB all don't have Flash. Not looking good for Adobe.
If WP7 starts giving Android a run for its money that means essentially of all the OSes for phones only Android has Flash, marginalising Flash even more.
That was exactly what struck me first. All the Apple hating trolls constantly said it was only Apple who wouldn't / couldn't run Flash and now this new MS OS comes out without Flash. It has to make them wonder if they had it wrong .... nah ... they don't actually think.
They have really lost their minds. This stuff all looks so 20th century. I just can't believe a company with 10's of billions of dollars actually released these things.
Just to look at them hurts my eyes........Now, perhaps, the Microthudd illusion of viability will begin to fade. Or, are all the windows loyalists just really stupid?
If they sell a few thousand, that will be impressive. If they sell millions, I know which side of evolution I am truly on! .......ughhhhhhhhhh!
Are you proud to be a simpleton? Throwing in with those too stupid to compare products?
Why?
Don't they teach etiquette in troll school these days? There is no need to insult someone when debating.
You just get an iphone because you can't be arsed to look over spec sheets from 9 phones and do a mini bibliographical report on them, just to get a damn phone, there are more important things in life than trying to figure out why these bozos had 9 phones out to begin with.
That's why I don't drive. I can't possibly choose which car to buy!
I wish somebody made just one model. That would be the manufacturer for me!
C'mon. Don't be absurd.
Tethering for OS 3.0, didn't come out in the US until almost a year later (but you'll blame this one on ATT, fair enough)
-Game Center (huge part of OS4.0 announcement, didn't launch with it, said it would come in an update)
-airplay (Big part of the ipod announcement, won't be on the main device they pimped it on, the ipad, until November)
-OS 4.0 for ipad
I'm sure there are more, but as all those happened in the last few months, I figured that was as good a spot to start as any.
Isn't the point though that if you know about these few things in Apple's pipe line you are reasonably confident they are not rumors? That is quite a contrast to the countless products and features that are openly announced as existing and turn out to be vaporware from certain companies. One has to suspect attempts to slow up or delay potential buying of Apple's products when this happens.
Of course, to be fair to MS, they may have in some cases, been showing things intended for production but pulled them when Apple made them obsolete over night. So production was halted. This may happen a lot to MS these days.
Will security be an issue on this new phone? I don't know and probably no one else does either but is this a concern, especially since this is MSFT, or is this not an issue right now? Anyone care to speculate?
Neal
WP7 should be more secure. No-one can really say until its been in the wild for a while though.
Nothing in my post suggested that iOS 5.0 would only be for the G5 iPhone.
Then I misunderstood you. My bad.
apple has in no way won the 'living room'. and they aren't going to with that lame apple tv that just came out. that was the biggest let down of the year.
watching the old 'think different' ad on youtube the other day, i realized that apple today is not counterculture, it isn't 'revolutionary' (in the way they portray it) and it is about as relevant as Paul Mccartney (you admire him for what he did in the past but he isn't really doing much except entertaining the old folks at this point).
i should add the young too. its the computer made by Disney....
Wait for Airplay to show the true potential.
Last night was typical around here.
TV on, kids looking at their cellphones, etc.
One kid had a brand new Droid X. WOW! That thing is GREAT! He was showing off videos on his huge screen.
Another had some sort of cheap keyboard phone. My kid used his netbook.
I found a cool video, plugged my laptop into the HDMI, and we watched on the 46 inch panel in 5.1 sound. My iPhone stayed in my pocket.
Don't worry Airplay will solve this.