Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets

11112141617

Comments

  • Reply 261 of 333
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post


    Of course I know what you mean. The reality is developers in Windows platform is much more junior than those in Java/GNU C platforms. If you don't understand the difference between Microsoft C/C++ platform and standard POSIX C/C++ platform, I can't explain more to you.



    The reality is that you're pulling opinions out of your rear end.



    There are very senior .NET developers just like there are very senior Java developers. From a PHONE perspective there are probably more relevant C# developers than there are Java developers given the complete hash Sun made of desktop development that was only really made okay in Java 6 update 10 (or 13). J2EE coders won't have any more relevant skills than any other developer for android.



    Most java apps look like complete ass and it is a royal pain in the rear to make a java app look decent even with Nimbus. It takes multiple sets of tools and techniques to do so (I use MacWidgets, stuff from Filthy Rich Clients, stuff from the Substance LAF, and a collection of random techniques picked up over the years from various blogs.



    Silverlight is something of a red herring...WPF is the foundation for UI development along with XNA. It's sure as heck more polished than freaking Android layouts like RelativeLayout which is like some unholy spawn of gridbag and XML. And there are probably more C#/XNA coders than JOGL/OpenGL coders out there. Yah, yah, OpenGL ES isn't JOGL which doesn't make transitioning any easier. There certainly are more C# coders than ObjC coders even today.



    The only freaking advantage that Android has over iOS development is garbage collection. While I had to manhandle around the UI the iOS guys were plugging leaks like it was the dark ages or something. C# has garbage collection and is an all around nice dev language.



    The difference between .NET C/C++ and ansi/posix/iso C/C++ is that .NET is a superset. The somewhat flakey (syntax wise) Managed C++ is deprecated. C++/CLI is the set of CLI extensions to ISO C++ and given that Lippman worked on that it's pretty damned solid (yeah, the guy that wrote the C++ Primer...THAT Lippman).



    If you still don't know who Lippman is, well, I can't explain more to you.
  • Reply 262 of 333
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I can achieve my goals, with less time, by using a more efficient phone.



    Again, what is being depicted-- people mesmerized by the content on their phones-- has nothing to do with "achieving goals" or "efficiency", and since the people watching the ad are well aware of that, the ad can't really function as a lure.



    Moreover, even if "efficiency" is acknowledged as a useful metric, who the hell thinks they're spending an inordinate amount of time clicking on email icons or contact info? Is that really the big hang-up in cell phone land?



    WP7 may well have a very slick interface, but it's ridiculous to imagine that panes or hubs or whatever is going to have any impact on productivity, much less get people to stop and smell the roses.



    It's like claiming that Expose and Spaces on OS X will save our children from their internet addictions. It's actually insulting.
  • Reply 263 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    WP7 may well have a very slick interface, but it's ridiculous to imagine that panes or hubs or whatever is going to have any impact on productivity, much less get people to stop and smell the roses.



    Of course WP7 is not going to increase productivity to a level that lets people save enough time to have the kind of impact depicted by the ads because they are exaggerated, a dramatization of life. However it is more efficient for certain tasks and allows users to achieve more in less time.



    Exactly how much time I've got no idea. I suppose Microsoft could have made an ad with a picture of WP7 and a tag line "WP7: increases productivity of the average business person by up to 1.576%" but that would have been crap.



    As it stands the visuals, the tag line and the message Microsoft are selling all gel well together to mark a brilliant start to the WP7 advertising campaign.



    When compared to previous campaigns like the Kin guy sexting his nipples or the thing with Seinfeld (still not sure what they were selling) it seems like Microsoft may have switched agencies.
  • Reply 264 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac_Keeper_Fan_Mod View Post


    So these 'tiles' are different from an icon how?



    I'm not sure if that was rhetorical!!



    In any case... each tile is basically a widget. They can display whatever information the application wants them to as opposed to a simple count or indicator that new content is available. Examples could be the weather, a stock tracker, the location of your next appointment, a warning from some kind of monitoring application etc etc etc
  • Reply 265 of 333
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I can achieve my goals, with less time, by using a more efficient phone.



    But often as not, my goal is to *be engaged* inside my phone. The phone has become a magical box of trinkets that we dip into whenever we are bored.



    I *want* to be engaged in it. I want to be distracted, amused and entertained.



    A better device would be one that is more engaging, not less.



    Which is why I think the message in the ad misses the target by a mile.



    That's not to say it is badly made ad, I just think it delivers an off-target message. It's a car ad that tells people to walk more.



    C.
  • Reply 266 of 333
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    @ Firefly7475 and addabox



    Perhaps unintentional on MS’ part but if they were looking for the ad to be discussed and debated extensively you two may have singlehandedly done it.
  • Reply 267 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    But often as not, my goal is to *be engaged* inside my phone. The phone has become a magical box of trinkets that we dip into whenever we are bored.



    I *want* to be engaged in it. I want to be distracted, amused and entertained.



    A better device would be one that is more engaging, not less.



    Which is why I think the message in the ad misses the target by a mile.



    That's not to say it is badly made ad, I just think it delivers an off-target message. It's a car ad that tells people to walk more.



    C.



    They would have missed the target if you were the target, luckily for Microsoft you're not



    If you have spare time on your hands and enjoy using it to dig around your phone for information instead of having it brought to you then I don't think that ad was for you. I'm not sure how many people are like that though, maybe there are lots. I've never done a survey



    I'm sure they will have more ads pushing the gaming and Xbox Live integration which is how, I would think a lot of people would fill in their down time.
  • Reply 268 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    @ Firefly7475 and addabox



    Perhaps unintentional on MS? part but if they were looking for the ad to be discussed and debated extensively you two may have singlehandedly done it.



    Maybe that was their intent all along! I have a couple of very cynical advertising mates that think of consumers as mindless sheep who would probably find that very amusing



    At least it's more interesting than the Kin campaign that was universally panned from day one.
  • Reply 269 of 333
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    They would have missed the target if you were the target, luckily for Microsoft you're not



    Who is their target? People who don't want to enjoy their phones? That's as misguided as selling female sanitary products to men.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    If you have spare time on your hands and enjoy using it to dig around your phone for information instead of having it brought to you then I don't think that ad was for you. I'm not sure how many people are like that though, maybe there are lots. I've never done a survey



    No one wants to waste time digging around for information. But the ad simply does not address that. Instead the ad is mocking the idea of *any* lengthy amount of engagement with a phone. Those people are not frustratedly searching for some scrap of data, they are off in a little world of their own.



    Yes, being engrossed in a phone, might actually be uncool and anti-social. The ad delivers that message. But that brush tars all phones equally. It's an anti-phone ad being used to sell a phone. And my guess is they will realise this and pull it.



    C.
  • Reply 270 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Those people are not frustratedly searching for some scrap of data...



    Well I can see where you're coming from if you thought that, because that is exactly what they are doing!



    Approach the ad with that in mind. Does it make sense now?
  • Reply 271 of 333
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    But often as not, my goal is to *be engaged* inside my phone. The phone has become a magical box of trinkets that we dip into whenever we are bored.



    I *want* to be engaged in it. I want to be distracted, amused and entertained.



    A better device would be one that is more engaging, not less.



    I don't know if you two are really talking about the same thing or not, or I should say, maybe you're talking past each other. They're also caricature arguments too.



    First, there's only so much a content delivery device can do to be engaging. The truly engaging part is the content. The device conveying the content can be seen as a picture frame. Few people buy a picture frame for the frame's sake. Sure, there are nice picture frames, but they're not actually the point.



    A phone for business use, I don't know if you really want engaging, you want to understand the message and then go about your work or life.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I can achieve my goals, with less time, by using a more efficient phone.



    There's also only so much more that can be done to make a UI take less of your time to access messages or entertainment content, though getting rid of superfluous animations would be a start. Outside of the rare setup change, it doesn't take much time or many button presses to do anything on a phone these days.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Yes, being engrossed in a phone, might actually be uncool and anti-social. The ad delivers that message. But that brush tars all phones equally. It's an anti-phone ad being used to sell a phone. And my guess is they will realise this and pull it.



    There's room for interpretation, but I don't think that's really the message. That seems to be more what you want to see than the message. Mind you, the message is a bit of a misdirection for the reasons you give.
  • Reply 272 of 333
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    Well I can see where you're coming from if you thought that, because that is exactly what they are doing!



    Approach the ad with that in mind. Does it make sense now?



    I could accept they are frustratedly wrestling with a device if they looked like they were frustratedly wrestling with a device.



    They don't. They are blissfully happy. Some are even lying down.



    C.
  • Reply 273 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post


    The problem is, as more people embrace iOS/Android, consumer inertia sets in. Once they are generally happy with their iOS/Android experiences (which was one of the key drivers in the iPad popularity spike for example - right?) what inducement will Redmond be able to offer to get them to switch?



    I couldn't disagree more. People get board of phone and like to change them just like they like to buy new clothes. Replacing an iPhone with a new iPhone to a lot will seem stupid as it basically the same phone with the same interface, but runs at the speed your phone used to run at when it was new.



    The biggest selling point MS have with WP7 is the fact it's not an iPhone and doesn't look like one. I've had my iPhone 3G since it came out and now I just want something new, and not something with a grid of small icons like my iPhone has, my Moto Razr, Sony Ericcson T610 and T68i all had. We've had a decade of phones with small icon grids time for something new.



    So yes people can be generally happy with their device, but it doesn't mean there never going to want to try something different.
  • Reply 274 of 333
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    There's also only so much more that can be done to make a UI take less of your time to access messages or entertainment content, though getting rid of superfluous animations would be a start. Outside of the rare setup change, it doesn't take much time or many button presses to do anything on a phone these days.



    For me, LockInfo is the sole reason I will be jailbreaking my iPhone when the Mac versions are released for v4.1. I can see everything I need with the press of one of two button (which I can do as I take it out of my pocket) without the need for a using the slider, inputting my PIN, then going to the app or apps I need to see that data.
  • Reply 275 of 333
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    There's also only so much more that can be done to make a UI take less of your time to access messages or entertainment content, though getting rid of superfluous animations would be a start. Outside of the rare setup change, it doesn't take much time or many button presses to do anything on a phone these days.



    I should say I approve of the decision of Microsoft to bring widgets to the lock screen. It's something that Apple should do next.



    But let's be 100% honest. Bringing information to the lock screen makes the device more seductive and easier to get into. Not easier to get out of.



    A widget that proclaims, hey look a new Email from your girlfriend! - another 200 posts on Twitter! - Hey, check out this photo of last-night's party on Facebook! - all of these things will have the effect of drawing us into the phone world. They will do nothing to get us out of it.



    The notion that this will get us out of phoneworld one second faster is dishonest.



    C.
  • Reply 276 of 333
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    But let's be 100% honest. Bringing information to the lock screen makes the device more seductive and easier to get into. Not easier to get out of.



    Touché.
  • Reply 277 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac_Keeper_Fan_Mod View Post


    So these 'tiles' are different from an icon how?



    The 'homogenization' of this comment already has me wondering how long until this fails like their earlier phone that no one bought...



    At least they are trying. I keep wondering what a Microsoft/Adobe phone will look and fail like...



    From what I understand a Tile = Widget+Icon



    Unlike an icon, they are physically larger in order to convey more information, so for example:



    The Calendar Tile will show information such as your next appointment: Time, Place, Description etc.



    Other Tiles will show how many missed calls you have, number of new emails and text messages, Stock Market information, latest Facebook friend update and current weather in your locality etc.



    Looking at the phones, it appears you can have 8 Tiles on one screen, scrolling down reveals more.



    Clicking a Tile opens up the app OR Hub for more information.



    A Hub is another story though!
  • Reply 278 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post


    ) what inducement will Redmond be able to offer to get them to switch? Even if, like my household, you have an Xbox and other Microsoft stuff, the hub system is still iOS for the most part. The family doesn't look for integration with the Msoft stuff - and that will be a hard sell for them.



    .



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    I couldn't disagree more. People get board of phone and like to change them just like they like to buy new clothes. Replacing an iPhone with a new iPhone to a lot will seem stupid as it basically the same phone with the same interface, but runs at the speed your phone used to run at when it was new.



    The biggest selling point MS have with WP7 is the fact it's not an iPhone and doesn't look like one. I've had my iPhone 3G since it came out and now I just want something new, and not something with a grid of small icons like my iPhone has, my Moto Razr, Sony Ericcson T610 and T68i all had. We've had a decade of phones with small icon grids time for something new.



    So yes people can be generally happy with their device, but it doesn't mean there never going to want to try something different.





    for phones it is more difficult since they are all pricing around the same but for me it was price.

    why pay so much? once you start buying apple and more importantly 'replacing' old apple products you realize just how much a year you are spending on them.

    so that and the fact that i am sick of both apple and MS corporate BS i just figured i am happier going with linux distro on lower priced hardware.
  • Reply 279 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    I couldn't disagree more. People get board of phone and like to change them just like they like to buy new clothes. Replacing an iPhone with a new iPhone to a lot will seem stupid as it basically the same phone with the same interface, but runs at the speed your phone used to run at when it was new.



    The biggest selling point MS have with WP7 is the fact it's not an iPhone and doesn't look like one. I've had my iPhone 3G since it came out and now I just want something new, and not something with a grid of small icons like my iPhone has, my Moto Razr, Sony Ericcson T610 and T68i all had. We've had a decade of phones with small icon grids time for something new.



    So yes people can be generally happy with their device, but it doesn't mean there never going to want to try something different.



    I agree. What Microsoft have created is something that is unique to the market. HOWEVER, people are resistant to change - people like to be comfortable and entrenched in the past - as illustrated by LewysBlackmore's comment - the main problem with this is that it stunts innovation - but this is a human flaw.



    We should actually be applauding this move away from the 'app centric' OS - It really hasn't changed sinced the first Nokia phones way back in the early 1990's.
  • Reply 280 of 333
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    I should say I approve of the decision of Microsoft to bring widgets to the lock screen. It's something that Apple should do next.



    But let's be 100% honest. Bringing information to the lock screen makes the device more seductive and easier to get into. Not easier to get out of.



    A widget that proclaims, hey look a new Email from your girlfriend! - another 200 posts on Twitter! - Hey, check out this photo of last-night's party on Facebook! - all of these things will have the effect of drawing us into the phone world. They will do nothing to get us out of it.



    The notion that this will get us out of phoneworld one second faster is dishonest.



    This argument is one I can get behind, or at least understand. Thanks for the clarification.
Sign In or Register to comment.