Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets

11112131517

Comments

  • Reply 281 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    The notion that this will get us out of phoneworld one second faster is dishonest.



    Checking next calendar appointment takes about 10 seconds less on WP7 compared to iPhone4.



    The 10 seconds isn't as important as the fact the information is brought the user as opposed to going and looking for it. I've missed my fair share of meetings because I forgot to check the calendar application and only received the notification 15 minutes before it started.
  • Reply 282 of 333
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I've missed my fair share of meetings because I forgot to check the calendar application and only received the notification 15 minutes before it started.



    Set your calendar event to remind you more than once -and- to give you more than a 15 minute lead time?
  • Reply 283 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Set your calendar event to remind you more than once -and- to give you more than a 15 minute lead time?



    I only get single alerts. It might have something to do with being sync'd to Exchange?
  • Reply 284 of 333
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    Checking next calendar appointment takes about 10 seconds less on WP7 compared to iPhone4.



    The 10 seconds isn't as important as the fact the information is brought the user as opposed to going and looking for it. I've missed my fair share of meetings because I forgot to check the calendar application and only received the notification 15 minutes before it started.



    If you read my post, I approve of bringing notification messages to the lockscreen. I think Microsoft has gotten this right. And I am not alone in thinking that Apple should visit notifications as the thing to fix in iOS5.



    But just for a second, visualise the WP7 lockscreen, with all those notifications, invites, photographs and quick dial tiles.





    Doesn't it remind you just little bit of this?





    Notifications can only serve to draw us into the phone.

    I am not saying this is a bad thing.



    It's a good thing.



    But it's simply not honest to stick Times Square on the front of your phone and make out that this will somehow help keep the phone in the pocket.



    C.



    (I am a bit skeptical of your 10second figure. - To check appointments, I press calendar. It launches in under a second)
  • Reply 285 of 333
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I don't think you're listening to me. I'm not arguing that commercials have to be literally truthful, or that emotionally appealing flights of fancy are illegitimate means for crafting a sales pitch. Very obviously, commercials do this all the time.



    But when Red Bull tells you it can grow wings, it's a message congruent with what's being sold. When car ads imply they can make you fierce masters of your own destiny, or any ad tells you the product makes you sexy and desirable, those are messages in sync with what is being sold. Fatuous, perhaps, or quite probably a pack of lies, but the emotional resonance aligns with the nature of the thing being sold.



    The MS ad does not. You act as if the fact that commercials are nonsensical in certain ways mean that they may be nonsensical in any or every way and still work, but that's not the case. To be successful, the dreams of advertising have to make at least dream sense-- I can be powerful, I can be beautiful, I can have control over my life, I am wise and discriminating, I am a rebel, etc.



    "I can be less of a self-absorbed asocial buffoon by doing more of what they're showing me is the problem but, I guess, slightly differently" is not a dream that aligns with anything. It's a solid two steps of meta away from landing with the impact of "having wings" or "being hot." KFC is never going to run ads with pictures of fat people with the implicit message that the new chicken lard bucket is slimming because they redesigned the bucket. Network television is never going to introduce the fall line up by showing people with no lives, wall eyed on their couches, suggesting that perhaps these new shows will get you out and about. They don't because no matter what they might say, no one is ever going to buy the idea that some new version of what they're selling actually improves the well known side effects, and drawing attention to the well known side effects just puts people off the whole enterprise. Although apparently because many ads have fanciful techniques it precludes pointing out that a "KFC makes you skinny" ad would be wrong headed because "that's how advertising works"?



    Hmmm, I see Gruber is making the same point here, no doubt because he doesn't know how advertising works. He does speculate, however, that perhaps MS is targeting first time smartphone buyers, people for whom the idea that "other people" are the jerks that they won't become might have some traction.



    All of this, of course, is entirely adjacent to whether or not WP 7 is a good product or not, or it's chances of being successful, or even if MS will subsequently run less garbled ads. I'm just talking about this one ad.



    You make some really good points, but to be honest these are the first MS ads in a looong time that didn't outright revolt me.



    At least they aren't shooting themselves in the foot.



    PS Carniphage has some excellent points as well.
  • Reply 286 of 333
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    But just for a second, visualise the WP7 lockscreen, with all those notifications, invites, photographs and quick dial tiles.



    ...



    Doesn't it remind you just little bit of this:



    ...



    Not really, the notifications aren't ads which would be real annoying. I'm sure Verizon would like to try something like that though. Are the notifications passively providing information or acting like blink tags trying to draw your attention? Granted the normal behavior is likely to have the phone vibrate when new stuff comes in but once that's past it's hopefully fairly static and not animating.



    Quote:

    Notifications can only serve to draw us into the phone.

    I am not saying this is a bad thing.



    It's a good thing.



    But it's simply not honest to stick Times Square on the front of your phone and make out that this will somehow help keep the phone in the pocket.



    It can in as much as a glance tells you sufficient status without needing to unlock and start to interact with apps. Glancing at your crackberry when it buzzes often isn't the killer, it's the tendency to instantly respond. Minimizing the opportunity for interaction can keep the phone, if not in your pocket, at least to a more passive distraction.



    The issue is that it really isn't much more work to unlock unless you have some corporate mandated 8 character+ password with one upper case, one lower case, a number and a special symbol and a 2 minute timeout period. Then mucking around to enter your password would slow you down enough to not want to unlock as often.
  • Reply 287 of 333
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    Not really, the notifications aren't ads which would be real annoying.



    With your phone they don?t have to advertise to get you to look at the display because they?ve already got you, but with ads they do try to entice you to get that brand or product in your mind. In the end they still do the same thing, which is relay specific information quickly.
  • Reply 288 of 333
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    Are the notifications passively providing information or acting like blink tags trying to draw your attention?



    If we look at the WP7 screens presented to date, it is clear that in almost all cases these tiles serve as billboards asking us to drive in and sample the wares within. We have to go into the phone get at the information. They animate to attract attention, just like the jumbotrons in Times Square.



    "20 waiting emails!" is an invitation to read them. The tile does not present the email contents. Do you see my point?



    C.
  • Reply 289 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    If we look at the WP7 screens presented to date, it is clear that in almost all cases these tiles serve as billboards asking us to drive in and sample the wares within. We have to go into the phone get at the information. They animate to attract attention, just like the jumbotrons in Times Square.



    "20 waiting emails!" is an invitation to read them. The tile does not present the email contents. Do you see my point?



    C.



    You're cherry picking. There was never a promise that data would be transferred directly into your brain. If you want to read an email you still need to open the email.



    The point is that overall you can achieve more in less time with WP7 than some other mobile OS's. Just because you can find examples where it doesn't save time doesn't destroy the entire message of the ad or mean that it's dishonest.
  • Reply 290 of 333
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    You're cherry picking. There was never a promise that data would be transferred directly into your brain. If you want to read an email you still need to open the email.



    The point is that overall you can achieve more in less time with WP7 than some other mobile OS's. Just because you can find examples where it doesn't save time doesn't destroy the entire message of the ad or mean that it's dishonest.



    I *like* the idea of widgets. I *approve* of ways of bringing relevant timely information to the surface of the phone.



    But honestly, such innovations will give us even more reasons than ever to go into phone-land and not fewer.



    Which is why I think to base the CENTRAL MESSAGE of an advertising campaign around the notion that this will keep phones in our pockets is poorly thought out at best and dishonest at worst.



    C.
  • Reply 291 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    I *like* the idea of widgets. I *approve* of ways of bringing relevant timely information to the surface of the phone.



    But honestly, such innovations will give us even more reasons than ever to go into phone-land and not fewer.



    Which is why I think to base the CENTRAL MESSAGE of an advertising campaign around the notion that this will keep phones in our pockets is poorly thought out at best and dishonest at worst.



    C.



    I think the point is that a lot of people are already trawling through multiple applications searching for the information that WP7 will pull back from multiple 3rd party sources and present to you allowing you to achieve more in less time.



    You're looking at a specific situation of someone that doesn't currently spend any time on things like managing appointments or viewing\\updating social networks. If someone has a Facebook account with friends but doesn't actually spend any time looking at Facebook, then I think said person would be more likely to be drawn into following their friends because they would see status and photo updates during their normal daily use of their phone. I do understand where you're coming from, I just don't think that is the most common situation or the one that is addressed by the ad.
  • Reply 292 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I think the point is that a lot of people are already trawling through multiple applications searching for the information that WP7 will pull back from multiple 3rd party sources and present to you allowing you to achieve more in less time.



    I accept that technically this UI design is a smart move by MS.

    I accept that this is a strong point of differentiation over other handsets. So much so that it could be the central point of the ad-campaign.



    But instead the campaign focusses on the negative "douchiness" of being engaged in a handset.

    I think this is a dangerous direction because it's hostile to the very people who MS should be trying to attract.



    I'd be happy to see an ad that builds upon "get to your stuff faster". I think that is a strong and compelling message.



    But this ad is mis-directed because the advertisers have confused "get in faster" with "get out faster". We all know that isn't the case at all. The number one reason to put down a phone is not being able to find anything interesting in there. The most compelling reason to stay in a phone is to have a screenful of tiley-widgets all clamoring for your interaction like some attention-starved tamagochi.



    C.
  • Reply 293 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac_Keeper_Fan_Mod


    So these 'tiles' are different from an icon how?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I'm not sure if that was rhetorical!!



    In any case... each tile is basically a widget. They can display whatever information the application wants them to as opposed to a simple count or indicator that new content is available. Examples could be the weather, a stock tracker, the location of your next appointment, a warning from some kind of monitoring application etc etc etc



    Somewhere, in one of the WP7 videos, they showed the lock or "startup" screen -- the one you get before you unlock or hit the start button (which displays the hub/tiles).



    This lock screen displayed, next appointment, weather, stocks, missed calls & messages, etc.



    That's what I would like on the iPhone (or any phone) -- a customizable lock screen, without JailBreaking. This is even more desirable on an iPad.



    That way, with a quick glance, you can determine if anything needs your attention... or the phone goes back in your pocket.





    The WP7 hub/Active tiles are another thing. After investigation, the Active Tiles appear to work like this:



    1) notifications are received by push and/or polling

    2) if the device is asleep, the notification tokens are saved.

    3) the next time the Start key is pressed, the notifications are sent to a server

    4) the content for the tokens are downloaded

    5) the start screen Active Tiles and badges are updated.

    6) the start screen appears to continuously cycle through some Active Tiles, un-displaying - then redisplaying the badges-- especially the mini pictures of people notifications



    If the device has been asleep for a while, the notifications can stack up and there will be a noticeable delay as the active tiles are updated.



    This seems a pretty good way to do this, with the exception of 6) above-- constantly retrieving pictures and refreshing the display seems like busy work and, likely, uses a bit of battery.



    .
  • Reply 294 of 333
    rtm135rtm135 Posts: 310member
    I won't know for sure until I get to play with a few of these next month, but my initial reaction is that Microsoft has a superior UI on it's hands.



    Their new commercials are dead on. Everyone has their faces stuck in their phones because it takes too long to get at the info you need.



    For example...



    On my iPhone 4, if I want to see my next appointment, I have to perform the following steps...



    (1) Wake up my phone

    (2) Unlock my phone

    (3) Find my calendar

    (4) Open my calendar



    On WP7, all you have to do is wake up your phone and your next appt is on your lock screen.



    And if I want to take a picture, I have to



    (1) Wake up my phone

    (2) Unlock my phone

    (3) Find my camera app

    (4) Open my camera app



    But all WP7 phones have a dedicated camera button that bypasses security and gets you right where you need to be.



    In many scenarios (like the ones above), WP7 provided 1-click solutions, which I think would be attractive to most people.



    On paper, it would seems that the tiles/hubs metaphor is superior to the apps one, especially since the tiles deliver live updates, connecting me to my information faster.



    I also liked the Windows Media Center and ATT u-verse integration. $10/mo gets me cable tv on my phone, which is much cheaper than Apple's iTunes a-la carte offerings.



    I hate to say it, but for these reasons I think I may be selling my IP4 come November. Apple is way too restrictive with the content I can put on my device.
  • Reply 295 of 333
    walshbjwalshbj Posts: 864member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    ...Their new commercials are dead on. Everyone has their faces stuck in their phones because it takes too long to get at the info you need....



    I don't think the interfaces have anything to do with it. People have interesting devices in their hand that satisfy a need to be engaged in many ways. They're looking for MORE to do with the device.



    Seriously - I expect every wp7 user to be exactly as engrossed in their phone as they would be with iOS or Android. If you believe what you see in the ad you're Madison Avenue's dreamiest dream.
  • Reply 296 of 333
    rtm135rtm135 Posts: 310member
    How is U-Verse? It's not available in Pennsylvania yet.



    Windows Phone 7 will have full U-Verse support, including DVR and streaming options.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    -- ATT U-Verse (Internet and Cable TV)



  • Reply 297 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    If you read my post, I approve of bringing notification messages to the lockscreen. I think Microsoft has gotten this right. And I am not alone in thinking that Apple should visit notifications as the thing to fix in iOS5.



    But just for a second, visualise the WP7 lockscreen, with all those notifications, invites, photographs and quick dial tiles.







    It is my understanding that what you show above is not the lock screen-- rather the start screen: after the screen has been unlocked, and/or the start button pressed.



    .
  • Reply 298 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    I won't know for sure until I get to play with a few of these next month, but my initial reaction is that Microsoft has a superior UI on it's hands.



    Their new commercials are dead on. Everyone has their faces stuck in their phones because it takes too long to get at the info you need.



    For example...



    On my iPhone 4, if I want to see my next appointment, I have to perform the following steps...



    (1) Wake up my phone

    (2) Unlock my phone

    (3) Find my calendar

    (4) Open my calendar



    On WP7, all you have to do is wake up your phone and your next appt is on your lock screen.



    And if I want to take a picture, I have to



    (1) Wake up my phone

    (2) Unlock my phone

    (3) Find my camera app

    (4) Open my camera app



    But all WP7 phones have a dedicated camera button that bypasses security and gets you right where you need to be.



    In many scenarios (like the ones above), WP7 provided 1-click solutions, which I think would be attractive to most people.



    On paper, it would seems that the tiles/hubs metaphor is superior to the apps one, especially since the tiles deliver live updates, connecting me to my information faster.



    I also liked the Windows Media Center and ATT u-verse integration. $10/mo gets me cable tv on my phone, which is much cheaper than Apple's iTunes a-la carte offerings.



    I hate to say it, but for these reasons I think I may be selling my IP4 come November. Apple is way too restrictive with the content I can put on my device.



    No offense but this sounds it came out of some moron marketing blurb for ms. Apple is way too restrictive in content? Yeah sure ms won't restrict you to the 20 apps they already have available.
  • Reply 299 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    This lock screen displayed, next appointment, weather, stocks, missed calls & messages, etc.



    That's what I would like on the iPhone (or any phone) -- a customizable lock screen, without JailBreaking. This is even more desirable on an iPad.



    That way, with a quick glance, you can determine if anything needs your attention... or the phone goes back in your pocket.



    Less stop and stare. More glance and go?





    I'm in two minds about this. Some days I think that Apple will definitely start copying WP7 features into iOS then other days I think that since a lot of features would look like they are hacked-on there is no way Apple would attempt it.



    Maybe features that can be copied in isolation will be added (like Game Center, the lock screen info would work as would a built in basic iWork app) and features that would require a complete iOS overhaul (information hubs, live tiles, 3rd party service integration etc) will be left out.
  • Reply 300 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    The ads don't need to make sense.



    Look at the entire "I'm a Mac" ad campaign, none of them made a great amount of sense. The idea was that if you are overweight, old, ugly, dull and/or stupid you own a PC, and if you are sexy, young, cool, creative and/or smart you own a Mac. A lot of people still believe this, such was the strength of the campaign.



    Most advertising is like this. Flip through the first 20 pages of a womans magazine and I bet you won't come across any tech specs or descriptions of why product X is better than product Y just a whole lot of "look at all of the beautiful famous people using our product".



    But even from that stand point it's not any good in being the ad in said magazine or tv set that you are going to stick to. Btw, you are wrong on the initial argument, even if an ad is an off beat or showing some pure nonsensical fiction, it still has to make sense to the product it refers to. A battery add can have flying freeking bunnies running on batteries but the point it's making, ie are batteries will last longer, is a valid one, ms's point their phone will save them from phonemania on the merits of the product itself is false for very logical reasons (and not by virtue of it even good or bad), the reason being that another smart phone CANT stop you from phone addiction. And people do look for the purpose of the add, and gauge if it could be true or not. If for example my underlying message is some preposterous claim for my product, my batteries will run forever on your devices, people will discard the add no matter how good.





    It's just a stupid idea, stupid in it's inception, and very averagely done in visuals. I said before that the Seinfeld Gates one with the shoes and the bang bus ones with laptohunters are masterpieces compared to this one. It's only stupidest to their by far arch stupider campaign of the "i am a pc ads". Taking a competitor that has no more than 5-6 worlwide sales, and BASING their add on a concept by this tiny competitor, the "i am a mac", thus legitimizing apple's superiority, in that no only do you trail them and copy their moto, but you aknoledge them as a force to be reckoned with while they only have 6% of the pie.
Sign In or Register to comment.