It's pretty likely we have a sockpuppet back in our midst after being banned a couple times previously. I would love to read the result of a mod/admin comparing some IPs.
Do I smell the rotting husk of SpotOn sliming around again?
I also find it odd that another very new member, ltrain_riders has been following both SpotOn and appl via their member pages. How would a true newbie with no posts even know about a couple months ago banning unless the sockpuppet master was checking his ready minions?
Interesting. The spoor is warm (ugh). But thanks, good work.
The worst part is that they trade in pop-psych hate speech against Jobs, and they give license to imitators to spread these toxic memes.
Mobile is a VERY different game than the PC vs Mac wars from 15+ years ago. Back then, enterprise adoption drove the industry. Now, it's consumers in the drivers seat. Apple dominates with consumer innovation, satisfaction, and loyalty. PERIOD. Apple's biggest problem may be a lack of any real competitors. Then again, Apple is not one to sit on their laurels (note the constant improvements / updating to the iPod line - something they already dominate and clearly did not get lazy with).
This is a great point that not enough people often think about. .... Good post!
If that is true, why isn't Apple the number one phone maker? Why isn't iOS the number one seller currently?
By profits, it is. If I recall correctly, they are making more money (ie profit) than a number of the top phone manufacturers combined. Market share is nice, but it's not everything.
He is showing how easily and tersely one can recompile Android from it's publicly available source code. That implies if you want to change some aspect of Android you have the opportunity to edit the source code, recompile, and then install on your handset. This is nerd nirvana but it is a bit naive on at least two counts. It doesn't account for the venality of handset manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Motorola) who try to stifle this capability. It also presumes that more than a tiny fraction of handset owners have the interest and ability to modify and recompile the kernel.
It is also worth noting that for that small fraction of handset owners who care to explore and modify at a low level, the iPhone has a very active and capable jailbreak community that enable the user root access (go to your local hacker, not the Apple Genius Bar for further information).
Why not? They were presented at CES last January before the iPad was even officially demoed. Why aren?t tablet makers serious about Android yet? Are they waiting to see what Apple does so they can copy everything again and come through with more OS versions on more units sold across dozens and dozens of manufactures and hundreds of HW implementations?
Sounds like a winning plan¡ Which vendor using Android OS will win the race to the bottom this time?
Because Google themselves said that android isn't ready for tablets yet? And because the current market requirements seem to require a device have a cellular radio for voice. the Tab is the FIRST device to get around this requirement in the states.
There have been Osx tablets for years. Why isn't apple selling those products?
Just because someone is doing something with a piece of software, doesn't mean that software creator endorses it.
Because Google themselves said that android isn't ready for tablets yet? And because the current market requirements seem to require a device have a cellular radio for voice. the Tab is the FIRST device to get around this requirement in the states.
There have been Osx tablets for years. Why isn't apple selling those products?
Just because someone is doing something with a piece of software, doesn't mean that software creator endorses it.
Because Goggle might be using Chrome OS for tablets and not Android and they will have a much more stricter say to what specs, updates and conditions when they license the OS to the tablet manufacturers than what they do right now to the Android OS
Because Google themselves said that android isn't ready for tablets yet? And because the current market requirements seem to require a device have a cellular radio for voice. the Tab is the FIRST device to get around this requirement in the states.
What? I can't even tell what point you're making. The WiFi iPad seems to have done pretty well sans cell radio, are you just talking about Android devices? If so, compared to what, exactly? And why?
Quote:
There have been Osx tablets for years. Why isn't apple selling those products?
You mean those MacBook mod jobs? Why doesn't Apple sell those? I dunno. What were we talking about again?
Quote:
Just because someone is doing something with a piece of software, doesn't mean that software creator endorses it.
I'm sorry, what on earth does any of this have to do with the question "Why aren't tablet makers serious about Android yet"? Is it some kind of weird defense of Google, because they're not responsible for what manufacturers do or don't? Are you saying that tablets coming onto the market now are lackluster and that's not Google's fault either? I honestly can't make heads or tails of anything you've said.
This has been covered here with some smart comments about consumers being in the driver's seat, Jobs' open not being the same as open open, but it's very, very clear that Google's open is not the same as open open. The difference here is, Apple is focusing on the customer experience, while Google is focusing on, well, forget it, Android just isn't open.
the definition of open: ?mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make?
Open isn?t about phone manufacturers. It isn?t about carriers. And it isn?t about software developers. It?s about customers. You know, the people who actually buy Android devices. And then have to struggle for months to upgrade their phones because the carriers provide no support and, to that end, neither does the manufacturer. Or Google.
That?s the result of the fragmentation Jobs was speaking about yesterday. I?ve seen this process unfold with everyone I know who has an Android phone that isn?t a Nexus One. This is a disaster. And it?s happening precisely because Google?s treating the carrier as their customer instead of the person who?s purchasing the phone.
This is Android?s greatest stumbling block. When a user finds out their carrier won?t provide an upgrade for their Android phone but they can upgrade an iPhone in 10 minutes, Android is going to lose that customer. And what will the customer be thinking at that point? Android: the definition of closed.
___________________
The truth of it is, there are layers to the mobile ecosystem with multiple players beyond Google being involved in Android and Apple being involved in iOS, even if, in Apple's case, they're just dealing with carriers.
You have your OS, your app marketplace, your devices, and your service. In Apple's case, they fought with the carriers to ensure that the OS and app marketplace are as great as possible for the consumer.
In Google's case, they're fighting for the carrier, mandating to the manufacturers, and ignoring the end user while throwing the devs to the wind.
I wish them the best of success, as a strong competitor will help push Apple in areas where they're weak, but Google is frankly not handling Android well.
I don't use Twitter or any social networking application. So I can't comment on the Twitter app. What I can comment on however is that my two Android apps have moved from 1.1 to 2.2 very easily and work the same on every single Android phone I have used. And it's the same app that works on all versions of Android - not one for each version or device. I have a difficult time taking any developer saying that there is fragmentation on Android seriously. Incidentally, I also tested my apps on the emulator with the Samsung Tab's resolution and it worked like a champ there as well.
There is fragmentation in the Android world, but it's very very minor for any experienced developer. The fragmentation is on the consumer end, where they can't upgrade to the latest OS because they are dependent on the carrier and manufacturer for OS updates. Jobs should have stuck to this rather than the entire rant that just makes him look desperate and stupid.
There are people who like the simplistic interface of the iPhone and it works great for them to have a closed integrated system. There are those of us who find it stifling and a relatively poor UX, that prefer the customization afforded by Android.
Google needs to emulate Apple in getting growing some spine and standing up to manufacturers and carriers.
It's a pity that cpabon is not an Android developer and reading his blog an twitter stream shows clearly that he hasn't developed anything or doesn't knows nothing about Android.
True... but how many permutations vs 100 x 244 (adding different CPUs, OpenGL and different GPUs).
And how many small developers can afford to buy 244 handsets (and their contracts)... then iteratively test them across 100 Android OS Versions (and OEM Skins) for every app.
Comments
I think you basically have to install Git (I think it is not installed by default in OS X).
git --version
git version 1.7.2.1
Already there. I'm not saying it could not be fixed, just that it is far from fun.
It's pretty likely we have a sockpuppet back in our midst after being banned a couple times previously. I would love to read the result of a mod/admin comparing some IPs.
Do I smell the rotting husk of SpotOn sliming around again?
I also find it odd that another very new member, ltrain_riders has been following both SpotOn and appl via their member pages. How would a true newbie with no posts even know about a couple months ago banning unless the sockpuppet master was checking his ready minions?
Interesting. The spoor is warm (ugh). But thanks, good work.
The worst part is that they trade in pop-psych hate speech against Jobs, and they give license to imitators to spread these toxic memes.
I'd say 99.99% of what is posted here is unsubstantiated opinion.
And the rest are all lies ...
Mobile is a VERY different game than the PC vs Mac wars from 15+ years ago. Back then, enterprise adoption drove the industry. Now, it's consumers in the drivers seat. Apple dominates with consumer innovation, satisfaction, and loyalty. PERIOD. Apple's biggest problem may be a lack of any real competitors. Then again, Apple is not one to sit on their laurels (note the constant improvements / updating to the iPod line - something they already dominate and clearly did not get lazy with).
This is a great point that not enough people often think about. .... Good post!
hah, you have a luddite as an IT manager. Sounds like it's time for a new IT manager.
He just wants to be "unavailable" for all of those pesky problems with all those POS PCs. ....
If that is true, why isn't Apple the number one phone maker? Why isn't iOS the number one seller currently?
By market cap Apple is #2 in the WORLD. WTF more do you want? Get real.
That may be so, but they still bought Android phones.
That may be so, but they're not likely to make that mistake again.
To paraphrase Bill Clinton: "It depends on the meaning of the word "open" as to how "open" open is".
.
First of all, is a cigar involved in this scenario?
If that is true, why isn't Apple the number one phone maker? Why isn't iOS the number one seller currently?
By profits, it is. If I recall correctly, they are making more money (ie profit) than a number of the top phone manufacturers combined. Market share is nice, but it's not everything.
By market cap Apple is #2 in the WORLD. WTF more do you want? Get real.
Market cap only have value to the people investing in the company, it means nothing to everyone else.
He is showing how easily and tersely one can recompile Android from it's publicly available source code. That implies if you want to change some aspect of Android you have the opportunity to edit the source code, recompile, and then install on your handset. This is nerd nirvana but it is a bit naive on at least two counts. It doesn't account for the venality of handset manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Motorola) who try to stifle this capability. It also presumes that more than a tiny fraction of handset owners have the interest and ability to modify and recompile the kernel.
It is also worth noting that for that small fraction of handset owners who care to explore and modify at a low level, the iPhone has a very active and capable jailbreak community that enable the user root access (go to your local hacker, not the Apple Genius Bar for further information).
Thank you for the knowledge.
By market cap Apple is #2 in the WORLD. WTF more do you want? Get real.
Given that is true, why isn't Apple the number one phone maker? Why isn't iOS the number one seller currently?
Why not? They were presented at CES last January before the iPad was even officially demoed. Why aren?t tablet makers serious about Android yet? Are they waiting to see what Apple does so they can copy everything again and come through with more OS versions on more units sold across dozens and dozens of manufactures and hundreds of HW implementations?
Sounds like a winning plan¡ Which vendor using Android OS will win the race to the bottom this time?
Because Google themselves said that android isn't ready for tablets yet? And because the current market requirements seem to require a device have a cellular radio for voice. the Tab is the FIRST device to get around this requirement in the states.
There have been Osx tablets for years. Why isn't apple selling those products?
Just because someone is doing something with a piece of software, doesn't mean that software creator endorses it.
Because Google themselves said that android isn't ready for tablets yet? And because the current market requirements seem to require a device have a cellular radio for voice. the Tab is the FIRST device to get around this requirement in the states.
There have been Osx tablets for years. Why isn't apple selling those products?
Just because someone is doing something with a piece of software, doesn't mean that software creator endorses it.
Because Goggle might be using Chrome OS for tablets and not Android and they will have a much more stricter say to what specs, updates and conditions when they license the OS to the tablet manufacturers than what they do right now to the Android OS
Because Google themselves said that android isn't ready for tablets yet? And because the current market requirements seem to require a device have a cellular radio for voice. the Tab is the FIRST device to get around this requirement in the states.
What? I can't even tell what point you're making. The WiFi iPad seems to have done pretty well sans cell radio, are you just talking about Android devices? If so, compared to what, exactly? And why?
There have been Osx tablets for years. Why isn't apple selling those products?
You mean those MacBook mod jobs? Why doesn't Apple sell those? I dunno. What were we talking about again?
Just because someone is doing something with a piece of software, doesn't mean that software creator endorses it.
I'm sorry, what on earth does any of this have to do with the question "Why aren't tablet makers serious about Android yet"? Is it some kind of weird defense of Google, because they're not responsible for what manufacturers do or don't? Are you saying that tablets coming onto the market now are lackluster and that's not Google's fault either? I honestly can't make heads or tails of anything you've said.
From my blog:
Here?s @arubin missing the point:
the definition of open: ?mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make?
Open isn?t about phone manufacturers. It isn?t about carriers. And it isn?t about software developers. It?s about customers. You know, the people who actually buy Android devices. And then have to struggle for months to upgrade their phones because the carriers provide no support and, to that end, neither does the manufacturer. Or Google.
That?s the result of the fragmentation Jobs was speaking about yesterday. I?ve seen this process unfold with everyone I know who has an Android phone that isn?t a Nexus One. This is a disaster. And it?s happening precisely because Google?s treating the carrier as their customer instead of the person who?s purchasing the phone.
This is Android?s greatest stumbling block. When a user finds out their carrier won?t provide an upgrade for their Android phone but they can upgrade an iPhone in 10 minutes, Android is going to lose that customer. And what will the customer be thinking at that point? Android: the definition of closed.
___________________
The truth of it is, there are layers to the mobile ecosystem with multiple players beyond Google being involved in Android and Apple being involved in iOS, even if, in Apple's case, they're just dealing with carriers.
You have your OS, your app marketplace, your devices, and your service. In Apple's case, they fought with the carriers to ensure that the OS and app marketplace are as great as possible for the consumer.
In Google's case, they're fighting for the carrier, mandating to the manufacturers, and ignoring the end user while throwing the devs to the wind.
I wish them the best of success, as a strong competitor will help push Apple in areas where they're weak, but Google is frankly not handling Android well.
... or the other guys are making stuff up.
Depends on who you want to believe, I guess.
I don't use Twitter or any social networking application. So I can't comment on the Twitter app. What I can comment on however is that my two Android apps have moved from 1.1 to 2.2 very easily and work the same on every single Android phone I have used. And it's the same app that works on all versions of Android - not one for each version or device. I have a difficult time taking any developer saying that there is fragmentation on Android seriously. Incidentally, I also tested my apps on the emulator with the Samsung Tab's resolution and it worked like a champ there as well.
There is fragmentation in the Android world, but it's very very minor for any experienced developer. The fragmentation is on the consumer end, where they can't upgrade to the latest OS because they are dependent on the carrier and manufacturer for OS updates. Jobs should have stuck to this rather than the entire rant that just makes him look desperate and stupid.
There are people who like the simplistic interface of the iPhone and it works great for them to have a closed integrated system. There are those of us who find it stifling and a relatively poor UX, that prefer the customization afforded by Android.
Google needs to emulate Apple in getting growing some spine and standing up to manufacturers and carriers.
http://blog.tweetdeck.com/android-ecosystem
.
It's a pity that cpabon is not an Android developer and reading his blog an twitter stream shows clearly that he hasn't developed anything or doesn't knows nothing about Android.
True... but how many permutations vs 100 x 244 (adding different CPUs, OpenGL and different GPUs).
And how many small developers can afford to buy 244 handsets (and their contracts)... then iteratively test them across 100 Android OS Versions (and OEM Skins) for every app.
That, my friend is daunting!
.
And why they have to buy 244 handsets?