I have an app in the iOS app store, and I don't mind paying 30% there. Well, there's no alternative, anyway.
30% for inclusion to the desktop app store looks way too much, because there are lots of much cheaper alternatives. The fee should be 10-15%
I will think about the tip for pricing the app store version higher... for now it looks like this will not work, because such app will get loads of negative reviews. This may work if the app store edition is actually different from the website edition. For example, put a simple cheap edition into the appstore (simple but fully functional within its set of features), and have a "pro" edition on your web site, which costs slightly more that the appstore edition... have to think about that...
I don’t see how this can’t work. You say 30% is too much, but if you can sell 5x as many copies of your app in a given time frame you profit.
I don’t think anyone expects to see high-priced, low volume apps on the MAS because there is a very real possibility that the increase in exposure, and therefore sale, won’t be enough to warrant its usage. But also note that many high-priced, low volume apps use older coding methods which may not pass Apple’s testing process, thus making it a moot point.
The benefit will be a plethora of great tools and services to make the Mac better in ways we have likely never thought of. Heck, automatic app installations and updates are enough to make me happy as I still can’t figure out how to explain to someone who is knew to Mac OS X or computing, how the Safari Downloads window, .DMG file, the mounted image, the app within, and the multiple copies users now have of those apps are all different things.
I still can?t figure out how to explain to something who is knew to Mac OS X or computing, how the Safari Downloads window, .DMG file, the mounted image, the app within, and the multiple copies users now have of those apps are all different things
Many apps that I use automatically update themselves when they are started. The app says that there's a new version available and asks you if you want to install the update. It downloads the update, installs it and relaunches. I will make my app behave the same way.
I don't think that the desktop app store will give much more visibility to an app than all other download web sites combined. There are lots of other well-known web sites, and lots of people use them - this is the way they find apps now. This situation is different from iPhone. Form the start there was no other way to get an iPhone app. All people know other ways how to search for desktop Mac app.
I for one like having the demo versions of some of the products on the iOS store. Really think Apple needs to rethink this decision...
Not sure I agree. It is necessary on the mobile app store, but in the Mac app store there are plenty of ways to distribute software outside the store itself. Limitations such as this may help to provide a consistent, reliable experience.
I wonder if Apple will tie the MAS SDK to the iOS App Store SDK. Right now, I can log into my iPad or iPhone to play Words with Friends, but being able to also play on my Mac and get push notifications would also be great. This would open up the door for iOS devices being used as satellite computers connecting directly back to the Mac.
I don't think that the desktop app store will give much more visibility to an app than all other download web sites combined. There are lots of other well-known web sites, and lots of people use them - this is the way they find apps now. This situation is different from iPhone. Form the start there was no other way to get an iPhone app. All people know other ways how to search for desktop Mac app.
If Apple does this right, and I expect they might, you might be surprised. Even as a technology enthusiast I find those software listing sites to be frustrating and limited. I actually prefer Google searches more at times. Someone who is not familiar with these things will be far more interested in the Mac App Store, and those people will have already been introduced to the concept through their phone or iPod Touch.
I find those software listing sites to be frustrating and limited
I find the iOS app store to be frustrating and limited too. I have 3 kids, and I want to buy quality educational apps and games for them. 90% of app that I buy there is disappointing junk. The iOS app store is full of junk and not organized well enough. I don't think that it is organized much better than any other app-listing web site.
I think that other app-listing web sites (especially mac-focused) have already started redesigning there web sites, to meet the new mac app store well-armed. I think that mac app store will have some competition.
I don't understand why the iOS store and the Mac app store don't allow trial functionality for developers.. Not only would that clean up the app store from having Lite free apps and Full paid apps cluttering up the store it makes the developers job easier by allowing one code base and I think would turn in to more converted sales for apps if they could be tried out first.
The Zune app store for Windows Phone 7 has this type functionality and simplifies the process from going from a limited version to a full paid version.
I don't think that the desktop app store will give much more visibility to an app than all other download web sites combined. There are lots of other well-known web sites, and lots of people use them - this is the way they find apps now. This situation is different from iPhone. Form the start there was no other way to get an iPhone app. All people know other ways how to search for desktop Mac app.
I think you might be missing the point here. It’s not that there aren’t options that people can use (Apple obviously is denying users those options) but that the options simply aren’t being utilized by most. As previously stated, the whole Disk Image concept is confusing to many.
Honestly I can’t see my mom going to one of those sites to download an app. Even if she found the site how does she know she can then go to the developer’s website, put in her CC info and know it’s on the up and up? You say these apps are “visible” but most people don’t even know these sites exist and probably don’t even know there are ways to customize their systems with great apps from great developers. The MAS offers this option.
My mom does feel safe buying iPhone and iPad apps and it has nothing to do with the fact that it’s the only non-jailbroken way to get apps on your iDevices. She does it because it feels simple and safe. I bet the average user has downloaded more app for their iOS-based iDevice than they have for their Mac or PC.
PS: Removing the info to who you are replying disrupts the flow of a thread, especially when you are only quoting a small segment of their original reply.
Microsoft and Steam will have to make a little effort to remove their ugly folders out of our document folders!
I know, right? The only reason I don't install Steam for Mac is because of it's startup daemon. Perhaps if they want to go on the App Store they will cut that sh*t out and I will finally be able to enjoy it.
Makes perfect sense. Demos only waste time both mine and Apple's anyway.
Yeah, go buy a software which costs 200 USD without trying it out first... These are not 0,79 cent Apps like on iPhone
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm
So you'd rather have a store drowning in flaky betas, demos and free crap rather than tested, working software of value?
The purpose of demos and betas are different. Und free software maybe of even greater value (good quality on par with non free counterparts, +saved money), and this is sometimes really the case.
And exactly because free apps are so popular - Apple does want to limit it - to make easier on their servers and increase return on investment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm
What you're describing is no different to the current situation - people shop around for the best deal and purchase accordingly. If the app store is another source, then what's the difference? You're not restricted to purchasing only from the app store, and there are other sources for demos and of course the developer's own web sites. Why would a developer shaft apple? They are going to want to take advantage of sales, not prevent their own software from selling.
The question is whether Apple is going to restrict the installation of the Software only through their Apple Store. Why not - they are doing it already for the phone. This would be really.... monopolistic... and "revolutionary"
...however, as others have noted, that's an unrealistic example, because anyone looking to purchase a professional, high-end product like that likely doesn't need the App Store to hold their hand, so to speak.
I'd imagine the Mac App Store is intended more for the "Grandma crowd*"--you know, people who don't know how to look for, find, or install software to begin with--and for smaller, less expensive apps anyway.
So, let's use, say, Panic's Candybar as an example. They charge $29 at their site.
If they sell it through the Mac Store at full price, the customer pays the same $29, but Panic only gets $20.
However, there's an awful lot of folks out there who haven't a clue how to look for software, or what companies to trust, or how to install it or any of that--they just want to be able to make their icons look cool. Without the App Store, most of them will never find Panic's website, so Panic earns $0 vs. $20. Since it's software, it's not like there's any ongoing labor/parts cost per unit (aside from providing support for another user), so *any* revenue is better than none at all.
Even if Panic discounts it on their own site, a lot of sales will still be done via the App store because that crowd will never find it.
It's the same reason Best Buy can get away with selling HDMI cables for $30 when you can buy them online for $3 apiece--if the Best Buy shopper doesn't know about the online source, they'll pony up the $30.
*(no offense to any tech-savvy Grandmas out there)
The question is whether Apple is going to restrict the installation of the Software only through their Apple Store. Why not - they are doing it already for the phone. This would be really.... monopolistic... and "revolutionary"
Hopefully never. That being said, they like having the power to make choices for you, so I would say a small chance of this happening with Lion and with a much larger chance of it happening in 10.8.
It's the same reason Best Buy can get away with selling HDMI cables for $30 when you can buy them online for $3 apiece--if the Best Buy shopper doesn't know about the online source, they'll pony up the $30.
Yeah, it is often too hard to find something...
That is why I am anticipating the App Store - I hope it will make it easier to find those deals for 3 USD
And don't forget the shipping cost - so you are paying 3+5 USD
...better than I did (see my post just above this one):
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Honestly I can?t see my mom going to one of those sites to download an app. Even if she found the site how does she know she can then go to the developer?s website, put in her CC info and know it?s on the up and up? You say these apps are ?visible? but most people don?t even know these sites exist and probably don?t even know there are ways to customize their systems with great apps from great developers. The MAS offers this option.
My mom does feel safe buying iPhone and iPad apps and it has nothing to do with the fact that it?s the only non-jailbroken way to get apps on your iDevices. She does it because it feels simple and safe. I bet the average user has downloaded more app for their iOS-based iDevice than they have for their Mac or PC.
Bingo. Nailed it. *WE* think that VersionTracker (well, before C|Net took 'em over), MacUpdate and so forth are common knowledge. However, *WE* only represent perhaps 10% of the consumer market (ok, perhaps 20%)--the other 80% has little or no clue about any of these sites, or how to use them, or which ones are reputable, etc etc.
Honestly I can?t see my mom going to one of those sites to download an app.
...
PS: Removing the info to who you are replying disrupts the flow of a thread, especially when you are only quoting a small segment of their original reply.
There are users like your mom and the MAS will be beneficial to them. I don't think that currently these users make the largest part of all Mac OS X users. This may change after a few years of existence of the MAS, but right now I think that most Mac OS X users can install apps.
Why you guys keep talking about dmg and stuff? You download an app, and Mac OS X automatically mounts the dmg file and launches the installation script. No need to know what a dmg file is.
Regarding quoting other posts - I did not remove the reference, I just quoted the post differently.
Comments
I have an app in the iOS app store, and I don't mind paying 30% there. Well, there's no alternative, anyway.
30% for inclusion to the desktop app store looks way too much, because there are lots of much cheaper alternatives. The fee should be 10-15%
I will think about the tip for pricing the app store version higher... for now it looks like this will not work, because such app will get loads of negative reviews. This may work if the app store edition is actually different from the website edition. For example, put a simple cheap edition into the appstore (simple but fully functional within its set of features), and have a "pro" edition on your web site, which costs slightly more that the appstore edition... have to think about that...
I don’t see how this can’t work. You say 30% is too much, but if you can sell 5x as many copies of your app in a given time frame you profit.
I don’t think anyone expects to see high-priced, low volume apps on the MAS because there is a very real possibility that the increase in exposure, and therefore sale, won’t be enough to warrant its usage. But also note that many high-priced, low volume apps use older coding methods which may not pass Apple’s testing process, thus making it a moot point.
The benefit will be a plethora of great tools and services to make the Mac better in ways we have likely never thought of. Heck, automatic app installations and updates are enough to make me happy as I still can’t figure out how to explain to someone who is knew to Mac OS X or computing, how the Safari Downloads window, .DMG file, the mounted image, the app within, and the multiple copies users now have of those apps are all different things.
Apple sucks. This is the tyranny of platform monopoly.
What monopoly? Do you understand what a monopoly is. Better not tell Adobe and Microsoft that Apple have a monopoly on Mac software and purchasing...
I still can?t figure out how to explain to something who is knew to Mac OS X or computing, how the Safari Downloads window, .DMG file, the mounted image, the app within, and the multiple copies users now have of those apps are all different things
Many apps that I use automatically update themselves when they are started. The app says that there's a new version available and asks you if you want to install the update. It downloads the update, installs it and relaunches. I will make my app behave the same way.
I don't think that the desktop app store will give much more visibility to an app than all other download web sites combined. There are lots of other well-known web sites, and lots of people use them - this is the way they find apps now. This situation is different from iPhone. Form the start there was no other way to get an iPhone app. All people know other ways how to search for desktop Mac app.
I for one like having the demo versions of some of the products on the iOS store. Really think Apple needs to rethink this decision...
Not sure I agree. It is necessary on the mobile app store, but in the Mac app store there are plenty of ways to distribute software outside the store itself. Limitations such as this may help to provide a consistent, reliable experience.
I don't think that the desktop app store will give much more visibility to an app than all other download web sites combined. There are lots of other well-known web sites, and lots of people use them - this is the way they find apps now. This situation is different from iPhone. Form the start there was no other way to get an iPhone app. All people know other ways how to search for desktop Mac app.
If Apple does this right, and I expect they might, you might be surprised. Even as a technology enthusiast I find those software listing sites to be frustrating and limited. I actually prefer Google searches more at times. Someone who is not familiar with these things will be far more interested in the Mac App Store, and those people will have already been introduced to the concept through their phone or iPod Touch.
It could be huge.
I find those software listing sites to be frustrating and limited
I find the iOS app store to be frustrating and limited too. I have 3 kids, and I want to buy quality educational apps and games for them. 90% of app that I buy there is disappointing junk. The iOS app store is full of junk and not organized well enough. I don't think that it is organized much better than any other app-listing web site.
I think that other app-listing web sites (especially mac-focused) have already started redesigning there web sites, to meet the new mac app store well-armed. I think that mac app store will have some competition.
I for one like having the demo versions of some of the products on the iOS store. Really think Apple needs to rethink this decision...
I agree. Not allowing demos is a BS decision.
You visit adobe.com for the trial and download it
On the site, they have Adobe CS 5 Design Premium - $1299-30% = $999
Minor point, but check your math - 30% off of $1299 is $909.30
The Zune app store for Windows Phone 7 has this type functionality and simplifies the process from going from a limited version to a full paid version.
I don't think that the desktop app store will give much more visibility to an app than all other download web sites combined. There are lots of other well-known web sites, and lots of people use them - this is the way they find apps now. This situation is different from iPhone. Form the start there was no other way to get an iPhone app. All people know other ways how to search for desktop Mac app.
I think you might be missing the point here. It’s not that there aren’t options that people can use (Apple obviously is denying users those options) but that the options simply aren’t being utilized by most. As previously stated, the whole Disk Image concept is confusing to many.
Honestly I can’t see my mom going to one of those sites to download an app. Even if she found the site how does she know she can then go to the developer’s website, put in her CC info and know it’s on the up and up? You say these apps are “visible” but most people don’t even know these sites exist and probably don’t even know there are ways to customize their systems with great apps from great developers. The MAS offers this option.
My mom does feel safe buying iPhone and iPad apps and it has nothing to do with the fact that it’s the only non-jailbroken way to get apps on your iDevices. She does it because it feels simple and safe. I bet the average user has downloaded more app for their iOS-based iDevice than they have for their Mac or PC.
PS: Removing the info to who you are replying disrupts the flow of a thread, especially when you are only quoting a small segment of their original reply.
Microsoft and Steam will have to make a little effort to remove their ugly folders out of our document folders!
I know, right? The only reason I don't install Steam for Mac is because of it's startup daemon. Perhaps if they want to go on the App Store they will cut that sh*t out and I will finally be able to enjoy it.
Makes perfect sense. Demos only waste time both mine and Apple's anyway.
Yeah, go buy a software which costs 200 USD without trying it out first... These are not 0,79 cent Apps like on iPhone
So you'd rather have a store drowning in flaky betas, demos and free crap rather than tested, working software of value?
The purpose of demos and betas are different. Und free software maybe of even greater value (good quality on par with non free counterparts, +saved money), and this is sometimes really the case.
And exactly because free apps are so popular - Apple does want to limit it - to make easier on their servers and increase return on investment.
What you're describing is no different to the current situation - people shop around for the best deal and purchase accordingly. If the app store is another source, then what's the difference? You're not restricted to purchasing only from the app store, and there are other sources for demos and of course the developer's own web sites. Why would a developer shaft apple? They are going to want to take advantage of sales, not prevent their own software from selling.
The question is whether Apple is going to restrict the installation of the Software only through their Apple Store. Why not - they are doing it already for the phone. This would be really.... monopolistic... and "revolutionary"
I'd imagine the Mac App Store is intended more for the "Grandma crowd*"--you know, people who don't know how to look for, find, or install software to begin with--and for smaller, less expensive apps anyway.
So, let's use, say, Panic's Candybar as an example. They charge $29 at their site.
If they sell it through the Mac Store at full price, the customer pays the same $29, but Panic only gets $20.
However, there's an awful lot of folks out there who haven't a clue how to look for software, or what companies to trust, or how to install it or any of that--they just want to be able to make their icons look cool. Without the App Store, most of them will never find Panic's website, so Panic earns $0 vs. $20. Since it's software, it's not like there's any ongoing labor/parts cost per unit (aside from providing support for another user), so *any* revenue is better than none at all.
Even if Panic discounts it on their own site, a lot of sales will still be done via the App store because that crowd will never find it.
It's the same reason Best Buy can get away with selling HDMI cables for $30 when you can buy them online for $3 apiece--if the Best Buy shopper doesn't know about the online source, they'll pony up the $30.
*(no offense to any tech-savvy Grandmas out there)
The question is whether Apple is going to restrict the installation of the Software only through their Apple Store. Why not - they are doing it already for the phone. This would be really.... monopolistic... and "revolutionary"
Hopefully never. That being said, they like having the power to make choices for you, so I would say a small chance of this happening with Lion and with a much larger chance of it happening in 10.8.
It's the same reason Best Buy can get away with selling HDMI cables for $30 when you can buy them online for $3 apiece--if the Best Buy shopper doesn't know about the online source, they'll pony up the $30.
Yeah, it is often too hard to find something...
That is why I am anticipating the App Store - I hope it will make it easier to find those deals for 3 USD
And don't forget the shipping cost
Honestly I can?t see my mom going to one of those sites to download an app. Even if she found the site how does she know she can then go to the developer?s website, put in her CC info and know it?s on the up and up? You say these apps are ?visible? but most people don?t even know these sites exist and probably don?t even know there are ways to customize their systems with great apps from great developers. The MAS offers this option.
My mom does feel safe buying iPhone and iPad apps and it has nothing to do with the fact that it?s the only non-jailbroken way to get apps on your iDevices. She does it because it feels simple and safe. I bet the average user has downloaded more app for their iOS-based iDevice than they have for their Mac or PC.
Bingo. Nailed it. *WE* think that VersionTracker (well, before C|Net took 'em over), MacUpdate and so forth are common knowledge. However, *WE* only represent perhaps 10% of the consumer market (ok, perhaps 20%)--the other 80% has little or no clue about any of these sites, or how to use them, or which ones are reputable, etc etc.
Honestly I can?t see my mom going to one of those sites to download an app.
...
PS: Removing the info to who you are replying disrupts the flow of a thread, especially when you are only quoting a small segment of their original reply.
There are users like your mom and the MAS will be beneficial to them. I don't think that currently these users make the largest part of all Mac OS X users. This may change after a few years of existence of the MAS, but right now I think that most Mac OS X users can install apps.
Why you guys keep talking about dmg and stuff? You download an app, and Mac OS X automatically mounts the dmg file and launches the installation script. No need to know what a dmg file is.
Regarding quoting other posts - I did not remove the reference, I just quoted the post differently.