Apple won't allow demos, trials, betas on Mac App Store

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  • Reply 41 of 113
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    Hopefully never. That being said, they like having the power to make choices for you, so I would say a small chance of this happening with Lion and with a much larger chance of it happening in 10.8.



    I think this article points to Apple having no plans to disallow non-MAS app installations. If they did, wouldn?t they be allowing for the demos and trials (at least) without reminding devs that they should use their website to promote these types of apps?
  • Reply 42 of 113
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlueDjinn View Post


    WE* think that VersionTracker (well, before C|Net took 'em over), MacUpdate and so forth are common knowledge. However, *WE* only represent perhaps 10% of the consumer market (ok, perhaps 20%)--the other 80% has little or no clue about any of these sites, or how to use them, or which ones are reputable, etc etc.



    QFT



    PS: I originally had grandmother in my post, too.
  • Reply 43 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by serkol View Post


    ...I don't think that currently these users make the largest part of all Mac OS X users...right now I think that most Mac OS X users can install apps.



    Actually, sadly, no--or, at least, most computer users have little or no clue how to do so. There's a LOT more "moms" out there than us.



    Example: Awhile back, I was doing some temp work at a standard "Dilbert-style" cubicle farm office, filling in for a woman for a couple of weeks. I'm left-handed, so the first thing I did was to switch the mouse buttons on the Windows machine.



    My co-workers freaked out. They chastized me for "hacking the computer" and immediately called the IT dept to "fix" the problem. They finally "compromised" by letting me switch the buttons, but only until the end of the day--I had to switch it back before I left, even though I was the one who would be working at the same cubicle the next morning.



    I've seen 24" CRTs set to 800x600 resolution--the icons are life-size!--because the user didn't know that they could change the resolution to anything higher.



    There's a million stories like this, and each of those stories represents a potential MAS user.
  • Reply 44 of 113
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by serkol View Post


    There are users like your mom and the MAS will be beneficial to them. I don't think that currently these users make the largest part of all Mac OS X users. This may change after a few years of existence of the MAS, but right now I think that most Mac OS X users can install apps.



    The average Mac user is not in any way tech savvy. Neither is the average PC user. These have been the majority users for a very long time. What makes the iPhone and iPad popular is that all the complex stuff has been ironed out or removed completely, yet desktop OSes are still using a 4 decade old mindset. People want their computers to work, be intuitive and feel natural. The MAS offers this option.



    Quote:

    Why you guys keep talking about dmg and stuff? You download an app, and Mac OS X automatically mounts the dmg file and launches the installation script. No need to know what a dmg file is.



    Most apps don?t auto-mount and launch scripts and install. Most don?t even have scripts, you are meant to drag-and-drop where you wish to place them. They also don?t auto-unmount. You mention this as if it?s ?common sense? when it?s not.
  • Reply 45 of 113
    BTW, which Apps would you like to see in the Store?

    What apps are worth it, to let others to find them easily?
    Please share the info.
  • Reply 46 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    Rethink your BS.



    Of course, this implies it was 'thought' to begin with.
  • Reply 47 of 113
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doorman. View Post


    BTW, which Apps would you like to see in the Store?

    What apps are worth it, to let others to find them easily?
    Please share the info.



    Here are a few paid and free apps from my 3rd-party app folder that I think could make it to the MAS.
    1. 1Password

    2. Adium

    3. Comic Life

    4. Dropbox

    5. Google Chrome

    6. iBank

    7. iStat Menus

    8. Movist

    9. Nike+ Connect

    10. OmniGraffle Lite

    11. OpenGL Extensions Viewer

    12. Paintbrush

    13. Soulver

    14. TextWrangler

    15. Transmit

    16. Transmission (would that be allowed?)

    17. WhatSize

    18. Xbench

    19. (A good note/flashcard app)

    20. (A good mass file name renamer app)

  • Reply 48 of 113
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


    If Apple does this right, and I expect they might, you might be surprised. Even as a technology enthusiast I find those software listing sites to be frustrating and limited. I actually prefer Google searches more at times. Someone who is not familiar with these things will be far more interested in the Mac App Store, and those people will have already been introduced to the concept through their phone or iPod Touch.



    It could be huge.



    Currently, the main problem with the App Store is discoverability. From the developer perspective, if the app somehow manages to make a top apps list, or one of the other featured lists (which probably helps immensely in making a top list) , it's likely it will be noticed. But, if it doesn't, it's likely to not do so well. From the user perspective, it can be difficult to feel confident that you've really found the best app for your particular purpose. One of the problems is that App Ratings don't appear in search results. Another problem is inadequate categorization. The Genius feature is not at all useful in this regard. Apple needs to address these issues or the situation will only become worse as the total number of apps continues to grow.



    So, it could be huge, but, without some improvement in discoverability, it may not help small/new developers as much as it potentially could.
  • Reply 49 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spunkybart View Post


    I changed your example just a bit.



    In this example, I would ALWAYS buy it from Adobe, never from the Mac store, even if the prices were the same between Adobe and the Mac Store.



    Reason? Because I CAN get a demo version on the Adobe site and try it out before I commit. At that point if the prices are the same (assuming), then I'm already doing business directly with Adobe and would never use the Mac store for that app.



    I'm seeing zero advantage to me in a Mac store, except for giving me the ability to search for software that I might not know about from smaller software vendors.



    This is all academic.



    There is no way that Adobe is going to put the CS Suite in the app store for any price unless Apple changes large amounts of the rules they have already published, and unless Adobe wants to also radically alter it's product in several key ways.



    It ain't going to happen.
  • Reply 50 of 113
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smaceslin View Post


    I for one like having the demo versions of some of the products on the iOS store. Really think Apple needs to rethink this decision...



    Why? This is Mac we're talking about. If you want the beta or demo you go directly to the developer's site to get it. The Mac app store will be optional, unlike the iOS app store.
  • Reply 51 of 113
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smaceslin View Post


    I for one like having the demo versions of some of the products on the iOS store. Really think Apple needs to rethink this decision...



    Agreed. I downloaded Evernote and was testing the free side version of what it does. Then I downloaded DevonThink Pro Office for a Free Trial that has limitations placed on it like 150 hours of use before you have to buy or trash cuz it will no longer work. I appreciate that since Evernote was FREE so no love lost if I never use again, HOWEVER, DevonThink Office Pro is $150.00. If I did not get to try before you buy, I would have exited that web page before it even finished downloading! As it stands, DevonThink Pro Office meets my needs better then Evernote and they have a $150.00 sale. Whereas, if I could not kick the tires so to speak, I would have passed for a lesser product with lower results, expectations and satisfaction on purchase. Plus Apple, unless your app store is going to sell .99¢ Fart apps for the Mac client! You would have missed out on... what's 30% or Apples cut of $150.00, oh yeah, $45.00. Alone, that's not much money, but multiply that by the same number of sales that the iPhone/iPad store is selling and now you are talking some serious coin!



    Why have 30 second to 90 second song snippets to listen to or movie trailers, huh Apple?! I wonder if the developers can pool together and send Apple a letter saying, "We the undersigned agree to the following, "Any digital app store provider who wants to host, sell and profit from our content, agrees to our terms of free download trial offers." Hey it worked for Apple when they sent out that letter saying they were increasing the song sound bites to 90 seconds and if they didn't hear from the record companies, it was tacit approval of Apples move. And surely Apple doesn't want developers going over to Android camp, let alone MS when they too follow suite a year later!



    I guess Apple has nothing better to do then keep track of returns and credits. Man who would have thought that Apple's accounting dept was up there with Apple Legal and Apple R&D with regards to job security and activity?!
  • Reply 52 of 113
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    Why? This is Mac we're talking about. If you want the beta or demo you go directly to the developer's site to get it. The Mac app store will be optional, unlike the iOS app store.



    Can you purchase from the devloper's site too and bypass Apple's monetory cut? Even though it's a few mouse clicks away, that's stupid. Come to my store but go some place else to try it before you buy it, huh?!
  • Reply 53 of 113
    So, why is this different from the way any other retail store sells software? I mean, when was the last time you got a demo, beta or anything not being the full retail version on BestBuy, Amazon, NewEgg or your local software store?



    If you want the demo, etc.. you always visit the developers web site.. right?



    On the iPhone store it is a whole different ballgame. They needed more control because it is an actual phone which we don't want hackers or viruses threatening your main communications device.

    On a Mac, they don't need that tight of a control.

    This particular store is more of a convenience for the developers and the customers... and a whole new way for Apple to monetize on this business... distribution on the Mac platform. So, it is just a win-win-win situation for all involved.



    I don't see anything wrong with that.



    And for developers... keep concentrating your marketing efforts... don't depend on Apple and the store. Shelf space is always a fight on any physical store. Just make sure you have a link on your website. If customers want your product, and are looking for it... they will find it. Make sure you have links all over the place pointing to your MacApp Store page.
  • Reply 54 of 113
    30% is not a bad margin to get software listed in the app store. I doubt they can get any other software retailer to do it for any less. In fact I would bet that the margins at the Apple retail store for 3rd party software are much higher. Developers have always dealt with wholesale verses retail pricing when marketing their software. Software margins have to be high or retailers would not carry it. Some retailers like Amazon will even discount software up to 30% off the retail prices, so they must have a greater margin than 30% to be able to do that.
  • Reply 55 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    Can you purchase from the devloper's site too and bypass Apple's monetory cut? Even though it's a few mouse clicks away, that's stupid. Come to my store but go some place else to try it before you buy it, huh?!



    I am guessing that YES.. you can buy from wherever you want. It is just another store.. not the ONLY store. As a customer it shouldn't cost you more. They take the cut from the developers set price.



    For a customer... with the account active on iTunes/AppleID, then it is a matter of a single click and boom.. the download starts. On other sites you will probably have to go through the whole purchasing process.



    Of course.. I am just guessing here with my limited logic. It would not make any sense to force developers to ONLY use the MacApp store... at least for the next couple of years.
  • Reply 56 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muchomac View Post




    On the iPhone store it is a whole different ballgame. They needed more control because it is an actual phone which we don't want hackers or viruses threatening your main communications device.

    On a Mac, they don't need that tight of a control.



    Right. So having viruses and hackers using my main computing device is fine. I get it.

    Oh, and let me tell you my credit card number: 5486 2456 4426 2465, expiry date 12/12.
  • Reply 57 of 113
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muchomac View Post


    So, why is this different from the way any other retail store sells software? I mean, when was the last time you got a demo, beta or anything not being the full retail version on BestBuy, Amazon, NewEgg or your local software store?



    Besides the fact that buying software from a B&M or warehouse stores is dying, there is no user installation of these apps, just click to buy and the rest is down for you including updates. It also allows you to buy a lot of very useful and simple apps that you simply wouldn?t find in box stores. Where exactly could Best Buy sell an iStatMenus DVD? it would be silly.
  • Reply 58 of 113
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doorman. View Post


    Right. So having viruses and hackers using my main computing device is fine. I get it.

    Oh, and let me tell you my credit card number: 5486 2456 4426 2465, expiry date 12/12.



    I?ll need the 3 digits on the back of the card and if you tell me your limit that would be swell. I?d hate for you to have to pay any overage fees.
  • Reply 59 of 113
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    I'm on the "bad decision" side of this one, simply because I've actually bought apps in the market place after liking the demo (also in Steam.)



    Steam is a great example of where demos made me buy software. Plenty of game demos even allow a taste of the multiplayer portion of it. Left4Dead for instance had a LOT of people go from the demo to the game.



    It makes sense to me to allow people to get a taste of what they will be getting, and clearly it makes sense to software companies. Forcing people to go navigate for these demos might prove to be a bad decision because people might just be lazy enough to not go to the website to download it. Not only that, but not everyone has a demo of their software, so people have to go and CHECK basically.



    In the end, people will end up deciding to pass on that app they might have bought if they had seen how cool it was with the demo that they were too lazy to go check for.
  • Reply 60 of 113
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,718member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smaceslin View Post


    I for one like having the demo versions of some of the products on the iOS store. Really think Apple needs to rethink this decision...



    I suspect in time once the other pieces are all in place and working this may come back within certain specific guide lines or at least perhaps in a separate section of the store. I do agree that the strict compliance rules make total sense. Using a Mac should be about consistency and no application should do something out of the ordinary with libraries and databases especially in these times of attacks on computers.
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