The two are similar IMHO in one important aspect; both Google and MS business models rely on market domination. Conversely, Apple's model relies on differentiation within the marketplace.
What I mean is this. Google introduced Android to support its domination of paid search. Mobile was a threat, particularly when Windows Mobile looked strong, because carriers and manufacturers had much more influence over the choice of search engine than on the desktop. If Windows Mobile seized a large chunk of the market, which was conceivable in 2005, they could force everyone to use Bing (or Windows Live Search, or whatever it was called) services. This threatened Google's dominance, so as a defensive move, they developed Android to maintain their market dominance and promote their services. If Bing were to go away entirely, Google would be delighted. It would just mean more revenue for Google and fewer threats. Nothing about this models needs other providers.
This is much like MS's approach and their Windows Tax aspiration. It's well documented and not worth repeating here. Essentially, they wanted Windows everywhere and to kill all competition, which they almost managed.
Apple is different. It has always tried to differentiate itself from others' product offerings by making integrated products that are more usable, more powerful, prettier, cooler, and just plain better than their competitors. They want customers to have choice and to choose them, even if their products won't do everything that everyone wants. Apple relies on being different (or better) and needs others to allow customers to make this relative judgement. Apple needs to operate in a plural marketplace with lots of providers.
So, Apple is not like MS, but Google is.
Long-time lurked, first-time poster. Hi everyone.
What you seem to be forgetting is that google make a huge amount of money off mobile advertising through your precious IPHONE too. Android is out there to ensure no one company ends up with a closed operating system on phones. It benefits everyone.
It will change more than you think has Verizon will now promote iphones at there stores with ads. Going from pushing and promoting android to promoting iphones will make a huge impact on total iphone sales.
In canada you see big iphone 4 posters at every cell phone shops. That changed things in terms of visibility.
Apparently, you don't see the same things I do when I walk around a mall here. The big 3 are all now pushing Androids as differentiators between their product lines. Look how quickly each of them rushed to launch their version of the Galaxy S. By the way, try and get a Captivate at a Rogers store. My roommate has been trying to get one for 2 months. It's nearly as rare as a white iPhone 4 these days.
Sure they have iPhone 4 posters in the store. But the iPhone is quickly becoming just one of their many flagship products. That's what happens when your biggest competitors also carry your star product. Just watch. AT&T will start pushing Android a lot more once Verizon gets the iPhone. I expect that 85% smartphone marketshare that the iPhone has at AT&T to drop rapidly once the iPhone launches on another carrier. Carrier choice means that it's iPhone fans that'll be on the move. They won't have the chance to stack the marketshare numbers at one carrier anymore.
I'm not saying iOS numbers won't get a nice bump from Verizon. However, the extent to which people think this will happen is vastly overblown. Verizon's got something like 90 million customers in the US? Assuming all of them are on 2 year contracts and assuming 25% of them are in the market for smartphones, that's just over 31 000 potential smartphone sales a day. Even if iOS were to capture two thirds of that (and that's quite a big IF outside of the first year or two on the Big Red), that's still only about 20 000 additions to the iOS posse a day. If Android even halves its current growth trends, it'll be able to best that number handily by the time iPhones show up on Verizon.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this scenario at all. Apple still rakes in billions. Verizon customers get more choice. And there's a nice no-cost operating system available that's putting a smartphone in reach of most of the world's population that can't afford $200 on-contract or $700 off-contract handsets. It's a win for everybody.
I can see Rubin in early American history clamoring for freedom for mankind against the oppressive British while keeping slaves and not seeing how there is a difference or an injustice. It sounds like Android is only open for the HW vendors and carriers who can then shackle the device in ways that adversely affect users in bizarre ways that defy any definition of ?open" I know of.
Horrible analogy while overstating the problem of carrier influence.
Every Android smartphone that I'm aware of has shipped with the Android Market. So anyone bothered by the look/feel/pre-installed apps (I'd contend that it's a small minority of users) can install Launcher Pro or ADW Launcher from the market and achieve a stock-like feel while making the carrier's influence virtually disappear from an end-user perspective. It is a highly customizable experience where 3rd party apps have equal footing with core system apps.
Contrast this with Apple who lets you rearrange some icons and only just allowed you to change the wallpaper in the last major iOS release.
What OS did Apple copy with the first iPhone, then?
Prada phone for hardware and pretty much every dumphone back then that had a grid of icons.
I'm being only a bit facetious. The iPhone's biggest innovations (imho) were the huge leap in touchscreen tech , the app store and most importantly, Apple's marketing which showed the masses how accessible smartphones could be. Keep in mind that when the iPhone launched, the RAZR line was still kinda popular and smartphones were for uber-geeks or business folks.
The original versus the copycats. It's always been that way. It always will be.
The two situations aren't even remotely similar. I don't understand why people keep repeating this meme. Most significantly, the Mac never had the market share in computers that the iPhone has in smart phones, but there are numerous other differences too. It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking and even a casual acquaintance with computing history to see how that comparison doesn't really work. In fact, you can make a far more compelling argument that in this case, Apple is more like Microsoft of yesteryear and Google is the mid-80s Apple, but even that comparison is not entirely without flaws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw
What you seem to be forgetting is that google make a huge amount of money off mobile advertising through your precious IPHONE too. Android is out there to ensure no one company ends up with a closed operating system on phones. It benefits everyone.
Aren't we agreeing then? Android is designed to ensure no one-one removes Google from its dominant position. They don't want competitors, just like MS. Apple wants to define itself against the competiton, not kill it, because they think customers will think the products are better. This is irrespective of App Store approval policies or letting Flash on the iPhone.
Prada phone for hardware and pretty much every dumphone back then that had a grid of icons.
I'm being only a bit facetious. The iPhone's biggest innovations (imho) were the huge leap in touchscreen tech , the app store and most importantly, Apple's marketing which showed the masses how accessible smartphones could be. Keep in mind that when the iPhone launched, the RAZR line was still kinda popular and smartphones were for uber-geeks or business folks.
Prada phone for hardware and pretty much every dumphone back then that had a grid of icons.
I'm being only a bit facetious. The iPhone's biggest innovations (imho) were the huge leap in touchscreen tech , the app store and most importantly, Apple's marketing which showed the masses how accessible smartphones could be. Keep in mind that when the iPhone launched, the RAZR line was still kinda popular and smartphones were for uber-geeks or business folks.
Only a bit facetious? You think Apple scraped their original iPhone designs within the 3 weeks between the Prada leak and the iPhone demonstration? That?s a lot of coding in a short amount of time. Crazy how they also figured out how to add a capacitive multitouch in such a short time to best Prada? it?s almost as if Apple had been working on their iPhone OS and HW for years. \
I would also like to hear why they give 1.5million/week in an official presentation, then an engineer (albeit an executive engineer) tweets a number that implies 2.1+ million/week. I actually would suspect the second number is somehow mistaken or is only true in a different context from the first. Tweets, of course, don't allow much room for explanation. For an example of the latter: what if all activations are allocated as taking place on weekdays(for accounting reasons). They could average over 300k/day over those five days and be in the 1.5million weekly range. So, the tweet number would be a true number, just taken from a different context than the 1.5million/mo. number.
Here's hoping someone can enlighten us regarding this conflict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enohpI
I that Google is cooking the books.
A few days ago, an article was published on AI that suggested that Android activations were leveling off -- 214,000 per day was up only slightly from a several month earlier 200,000 per day.
Several of us questioned the 214,000 number as being too low -- especially since it should have included Black Friday and the one million Galaxy Tabs sold into the marketplace.
Is any of this accurate? Is Google or Rubin cooking the books? Does it Matter?
I don't presume to know the answers or motivations, but here's an interesting set of calculations:
214,000 per calendar day x 7 ~= 1,500,000 per calendar week
1,500,000 per calendar week / 5 ~= 300,000 per business day
You are being tracked just like you are when you do a Google search.
Soylent Green is People.
There's Tuberculosis in the free blankets.
Cell phones cause Cancer.
Don't take candy from a stranger.
I'd charge at least a dollar for the OS and either buy the staff lunch, OR give some of it away to Charity! When something goes wrong, who are you going to send a "class action" lawsuit to?
OMG this post actually made me literally laugh out loud. You can't be serious. I'll bet the Apple store has tinfoil hats for $29 that you could use to make sure you're never spied on again.
While you're at it, make sure you never use a credit card, a debit card (actually don't use a bank account at all), don't file your taxes (maybe consider ditching your social insurance/social security number), etc. Might even want to ditch your driver's license or the issuing authority will know where you live.
If you're really worried, PM me, I've got some property on Mars I'd like to sell you where you'll be untrackable...but then I'd know where you are so.....
Only a bit facetious? You think Apple scraped their original iPhone designs within the 3 weeks between the Prada leak and the iPhone demonstration? That?s a lot of coding in a short amount of time. Crazy how they also figured out how to add a capacitive multitouch in such a short time to best Prada? it?s almost as if Apple had been working on their iPhone OS and HW for years. \
All I'm saying is that the form factor and the OS concept is hardly that revolutionary. Candybar touchscreen with a grid of app icons. That's not to say the other stuff (how reliable and solid the touchscreen was, the app store, etc.) wasn't revolutionary. But people act as though the candybar touchscreen is manna from heaven. That's patently untrue. It's just that for most people (particularly in the USA) they went from a RAZR to an iPhone that's why the iPhone seems "magical".
A few days ago, an article was published on AI that suggested that Android activations were leveling off -- 214,000 per day was up only slightly from a several month earlier 200,000 per day.
Several of us questioned the 214,000 number as being too low -- especially since it should have included Black Friday and the one million Galaxy Tabs sold into the marketplace.
Is any of this accurate? Is Google or Rubin cooking the books? Does it Matter/
I don't presume to know the answers or motivations, but here's an interesting set of calculations:
214,000 per calendar day x 7 ~= 1,500,000 per calendar week
1,500,000 per calendar week / 5 ~= 300,000 per business day
So:
214,000 per day ~= 300,000 per day
Capite?
Verstehen Sie?
Comprenez-vous ?
Entiende?
Вы понимаете?
Or it could just be that somebody made a mistake with the numbers. Honest mistakes do happen. Sometimes somebody puts in the wrong figure into a press release. Etc. I'd wait for more confirmation. Though I do think Rubin's deliberate tweet is probably far more authoritative.
Only a bit facetious? You think Apple scraped their original iPhone designs within the 3 weeks between the Prada leak and the iPhone demonstration? That?s a lot of coding in a short amount of time. Crazy how they also figured out how to add a capacitive multitouch in such a short time to best Prada? it?s almost as if Apple had been working on their iPhone OS and HW for years. \
People sometimes think that any company can copy something in a matter of days
Comments
The two are similar IMHO in one important aspect; both Google and MS business models rely on market domination. Conversely, Apple's model relies on differentiation within the marketplace.
What I mean is this. Google introduced Android to support its domination of paid search. Mobile was a threat, particularly when Windows Mobile looked strong, because carriers and manufacturers had much more influence over the choice of search engine than on the desktop. If Windows Mobile seized a large chunk of the market, which was conceivable in 2005, they could force everyone to use Bing (or Windows Live Search, or whatever it was called) services. This threatened Google's dominance, so as a defensive move, they developed Android to maintain their market dominance and promote their services. If Bing were to go away entirely, Google would be delighted. It would just mean more revenue for Google and fewer threats. Nothing about this models needs other providers.
This is much like MS's approach and their Windows Tax aspiration. It's well documented and not worth repeating here. Essentially, they wanted Windows everywhere and to kill all competition, which they almost managed.
Apple is different. It has always tried to differentiate itself from others' product offerings by making integrated products that are more usable, more powerful, prettier, cooler, and just plain better than their competitors. They want customers to have choice and to choose them, even if their products won't do everything that everyone wants. Apple relies on being different (or better) and needs others to allow customers to make this relative judgement. Apple needs to operate in a plural marketplace with lots of providers.
So, Apple is not like MS, but Google is.
Long-time lurked, first-time poster. Hi everyone.
What you seem to be forgetting is that google make a huge amount of money off mobile advertising through your precious IPHONE too. Android is out there to ensure no one company ends up with a closed operating system on phones. It benefits everyone.
It will change more than you think has Verizon will now promote iphones at there stores with ads. Going from pushing and promoting android to promoting iphones will make a huge impact on total iphone sales.
In canada you see big iphone 4 posters at every cell phone shops. That changed things in terms of visibility.
Apparently, you don't see the same things I do when I walk around a mall here. The big 3 are all now pushing Androids as differentiators between their product lines. Look how quickly each of them rushed to launch their version of the Galaxy S. By the way, try and get a Captivate at a Rogers store. My roommate has been trying to get one for 2 months. It's nearly as rare as a white iPhone 4 these days.
Sure they have iPhone 4 posters in the store. But the iPhone is quickly becoming just one of their many flagship products. That's what happens when your biggest competitors also carry your star product. Just watch. AT&T will start pushing Android a lot more once Verizon gets the iPhone. I expect that 85% smartphone marketshare that the iPhone has at AT&T to drop rapidly once the iPhone launches on another carrier. Carrier choice means that it's iPhone fans that'll be on the move. They won't have the chance to stack the marketshare numbers at one carrier anymore.
I'm not saying iOS numbers won't get a nice bump from Verizon. However, the extent to which people think this will happen is vastly overblown. Verizon's got something like 90 million customers in the US? Assuming all of them are on 2 year contracts and assuming 25% of them are in the market for smartphones, that's just over 31 000 potential smartphone sales a day. Even if iOS were to capture two thirds of that (and that's quite a big IF outside of the first year or two on the Big Red), that's still only about 20 000 additions to the iOS posse a day. If Android even halves its current growth trends, it'll be able to best that number handily by the time iPhones show up on Verizon.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this scenario at all. Apple still rakes in billions. Verizon customers get more choice. And there's a nice no-cost operating system available that's putting a smartphone in reach of most of the world's population that can't afford $200 on-contract or $700 off-contract handsets. It's a win for everybody.
I can see Rubin in early American history clamoring for freedom for mankind against the oppressive British while keeping slaves and not seeing how there is a difference or an injustice. It sounds like Android is only open for the HW vendors and carriers who can then shackle the device in ways that adversely affect users in bizarre ways that defy any definition of ?open" I know of.
Horrible analogy while overstating the problem of carrier influence.
Every Android smartphone that I'm aware of has shipped with the Android Market. So anyone bothered by the look/feel/pre-installed apps (I'd contend that it's a small minority of users) can install Launcher Pro or ADW Launcher from the market and achieve a stock-like feel while making the carrier's influence virtually disappear from an end-user perspective. It is a highly customizable experience where 3rd party apps have equal footing with core system apps.
Contrast this with Apple who lets you rearrange some icons and only just allowed you to change the wallpaper in the last major iOS release.
A completely incoherent article completely biased against Google spewing outdated, incorrect or flat out misinterpreted statements.
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
"the definition of open: 'mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make."
Lmao. Yep, "open."
You've got to be smoking some funny cigarette to think this is a good thing.
This is all great and everything, but Google is activating 300,000 devices per day, for profit.
And this is different from every other company on the face of the planet how?
What OS did Apple copy with the first iPhone, then?
Prada phone for hardware and pretty much every dumphone back then that had a grid of icons.
I'm being only a bit facetious. The iPhone's biggest innovations (imho) were the huge leap in touchscreen tech , the app store and most importantly, Apple's marketing which showed the masses how accessible smartphones could be. Keep in mind that when the iPhone launched, the RAZR line was still kinda popular and smartphones were for uber-geeks or business folks.
Wow. Daniel never ceases to amaze.
A completely incoherent article completely biased against Google spewing outdated, incorrect or flat out misinterpreted statements.
Explain please...
The original versus the copycats. It's always been that way. It always will be.
The two situations aren't even remotely similar. I don't understand why people keep repeating this meme. Most significantly, the Mac never had the market share in computers that the iPhone has in smart phones, but there are numerous other differences too. It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking and even a casual acquaintance with computing history to see how that comparison doesn't really work. In fact, you can make a far more compelling argument that in this case, Apple is more like Microsoft of yesteryear and Google is the mid-80s Apple, but even that comparison is not entirely without flaws.
What you seem to be forgetting is that google make a huge amount of money off mobile advertising through your precious IPHONE too. Android is out there to ensure no one company ends up with a closed operating system on phones. It benefits everyone.
Aren't we agreeing then? Android is designed to ensure no one-one removes Google from its dominant position. They don't want competitors, just like MS. Apple wants to define itself against the competiton, not kill it, because they think customers will think the products are better. This is irrespective of App Store approval policies or letting Flash on the iPhone.
Prada phone for hardware and pretty much every dumphone back then that had a grid of icons.
I'm being only a bit facetious. The iPhone's biggest innovations (imho) were the huge leap in touchscreen tech , the app store and most importantly, Apple's marketing which showed the masses how accessible smartphones could be. Keep in mind that when the iPhone launched, the RAZR line was still kinda popular and smartphones were for uber-geeks or business folks.
Prada phone??!! Please...
Prada phone for hardware and pretty much every dumphone back then that had a grid of icons.
I'm being only a bit facetious. The iPhone's biggest innovations (imho) were the huge leap in touchscreen tech , the app store and most importantly, Apple's marketing which showed the masses how accessible smartphones could be. Keep in mind that when the iPhone launched, the RAZR line was still kinda popular and smartphones were for uber-geeks or business folks.
Only a bit facetious? You think Apple scraped their original iPhone designs within the 3 weeks between the Prada leak and the iPhone demonstration? That?s a lot of coding in a short amount of time. Crazy how they also figured out how to add a capacitive multitouch in such a short time to best Prada? it?s almost as if Apple had been working on their iPhone OS and HW for years.
A telephone.
Something you use to make calls with for crying out loud
Why are you people trolling arguing and jeering who sells more phones than the next guy?
Are you in grade school or something?
I would also like to hear why they give 1.5million/week in an official presentation, then an engineer (albeit an executive engineer) tweets a number that implies 2.1+ million/week. I actually would suspect the second number is somehow mistaken or is only true in a different context from the first. Tweets, of course, don't allow much room for explanation. For an example of the latter: what if all activations are allocated as taking place on weekdays(for accounting reasons). They could average over 300k/day over those five days and be in the 1.5million weekly range. So, the tweet number would be a true number, just taken from a different context than the 1.5million/mo. number.
Here's hoping someone can enlighten us regarding this conflict.
I that Google is cooking the books.
A few days ago, an article was published on AI that suggested that Android activations were leveling off -- 214,000 per day was up only slightly from a several month earlier 200,000 per day.
Several of us questioned the 214,000 number as being too low -- especially since it should have included Black Friday and the one million Galaxy Tabs sold into the marketplace.
Is any of this accurate? Is Google or Rubin cooking the books? Does it Matter?
I don't presume to know the answers or motivations, but here's an interesting set of calculations:
214,000 per calendar day x 7 ~= 1,500,000 per calendar week
1,500,000 per calendar week / 5 ~= 300,000 per business day
So:
214,000 per day ~= 300,000 per day
Capite?
Verstehen Sie?
Comprenez-vous ?
Entiende?
Вы понимаете?
Let's compare Apples to Apples and Androids to Androids:
the iOS activations include iPod Touches, iPads, AND iPHones.
Since when do you need to activate an ipod or an ipad?
Okay, iPad 3g maybe...
You are being tracked just like you are when you do a Google search.
Soylent Green is People.
There's Tuberculosis in the free blankets.
Cell phones cause Cancer.
Don't take candy from a stranger.
I'd charge at least a dollar for the OS and either buy the staff lunch, OR give some of it away to Charity! When something goes wrong, who are you going to send a "class action" lawsuit to?
OMG this post actually made me literally laugh out loud. You can't be serious. I'll bet the Apple store has tinfoil hats for $29 that you could use to make sure you're never spied on again.
While you're at it, make sure you never use a credit card, a debit card (actually don't use a bank account at all), don't file your taxes (maybe consider ditching your social insurance/social security number), etc. Might even want to ditch your driver's license or the issuing authority will know where you live.
If you're really worried, PM me, I've got some property on Mars I'd like to sell you where you'll be untrackable...but then I'd know where you are so.....
Only a bit facetious? You think Apple scraped their original iPhone designs within the 3 weeks between the Prada leak and the iPhone demonstration? That?s a lot of coding in a short amount of time. Crazy how they also figured out how to add a capacitive multitouch in such a short time to best Prada? it?s almost as if Apple had been working on their iPhone OS and HW for years.
All I'm saying is that the form factor and the OS concept is hardly that revolutionary. Candybar touchscreen with a grid of app icons. That's not to say the other stuff (how reliable and solid the touchscreen was, the app store, etc.) wasn't revolutionary. But people act as though the candybar touchscreen is manna from heaven. That's patently untrue. It's just that for most people (particularly in the USA) they went from a RAZR to an iPhone that's why the iPhone seems "magical".
A few days ago, an article was published on AI that suggested that Android activations were leveling off -- 214,000 per day was up only slightly from a several month earlier 200,000 per day.
Several of us questioned the 214,000 number as being too low -- especially since it should have included Black Friday and the one million Galaxy Tabs sold into the marketplace.
Is any of this accurate? Is Google or Rubin cooking the books? Does it Matter/
I don't presume to know the answers or motivations, but here's an interesting set of calculations:
214,000 per calendar day x 7 ~= 1,500,000 per calendar week
1,500,000 per calendar week / 5 ~= 300,000 per business day
So:
214,000 per day ~= 300,000 per day
Capite?
Verstehen Sie?
Comprenez-vous ?
Entiende?
Вы понимаете?
Or it could just be that somebody made a mistake with the numbers. Honest mistakes do happen. Sometimes somebody puts in the wrong figure into a press release. Etc. I'd wait for more confirmation. Though I do think Rubin's deliberate tweet is probably far more authoritative.
He probably used business days instead of calendar days to inflate the numbers.
Only a bit facetious? You think Apple scraped their original iPhone designs within the 3 weeks between the Prada leak and the iPhone demonstration? That?s a lot of coding in a short amount of time. Crazy how they also figured out how to add a capacitive multitouch in such a short time to best Prada? it?s almost as if Apple had been working on their iPhone OS and HW for years.
People sometimes think that any company can copy something in a matter of days