The second case involving this cop is interesting to me.
Suspected gang activity in a park. One of the guys there is "uncooperative and beligerent" and ends up getting his ass kicked. Not charged with anything afterwards... hrm... sounds like some small-dicked white cops didn't like a black man getting smart with them.
If it looks like police brutality and walks like police brutality, it must be oppression of poor white cops. Because, after all, *they* aren't the ones with the power.
Groverat you are a hippie liberal bastard. Remove your Free Mumia shirt, throw your hackey sack away, let go of that tree you have been hugging and go join the Marines pronto.
I should have known a left wing wacko like you would have voted for Nader. Curse you, you Tofu munching, whale kissing, Karl Marx worshipping, first amendment believing, ungodly devil spawned VEGETARIAN!!!
WHO are you talking to, 'rat? Hopefully not me. I've made it very clear that this cop did wrong, needs to be fired ASAP and get his nuts sued off in civil court by the teen he punched.
Who are you responding to with all the "white man" stuff?
<strong>No way, man, you'll get my Green party membership card and my electric scooter when you pry my cold, dead fingers off them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The green party and the libertarian party should merge. They could be the Greenbertarians or the Libergreens. Join forces for the greater good--we need to get rid of the Republicrats and the Demopublicans.
None of us know what happened and only saw the tape of the kid being slammed on the car and hit in the face. I wish i had the link to the news site, but the cop did put in his report he punched the kid in the face once, after being grabbed in the crotch.
Now in the tape you can't tell if this happened, but the report was filed before this became public. So in my mind at least the cop was somewhat honest in saying he hit the kid. He didn't say he slammed him on the car, but sometimes people don't realize the force they use at the time. I excuse him for that, since maybe what happened before that had the cop worked up...none of us know what happened prior to the taping.
I did see a cut on the cops head, it's totally visible in the tape. Now if he was struck by the kid, than to me the rest is what was deserved.
To me after having a cop killed here in Seattle after a struggle and shot with his own gun, what is too much force? This particular cop tried pepper spray and it only made the criminal more mad. The guy who shot him with his own gun was a minority. Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?
White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter? If I'm a police officer and any one of these type of people try to fight or struggle with me, instead of doing what I ask. I'm hitting them with my club, no questions asked, if i feel I'm in danger. Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!!
<strong>The green party and the libertarian party should merge. They could be the Greenbertarians or the Libergreens. </strong><hr></blockquote> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Yeah, then they could get .3% of the vote instead of the .1% and .2% that they get now.
<strong>I should have known a left wing wacko like you would have voted for Nader. Curse you, you Tofu munching, whale kissing, Karl Marx worshipping, first amendment believing, ungodly devil spawned VEGETARIAN!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I'm not left-wing and am a Nader man. Although i do disagree with just about everything groverat has to say about anything, don't blame it on Nader.
[quote]To me after having a cop killed here in Seattle after a struggle and shot with his own gun, what is too much force? This particular cop tried pepper spray and it only made the criminal more mad. The guy who shot him with his own gun was a minority. Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?<hr></blockquote>
You cannot compare the two situations. Here we had a single cop taking on a guy who is buck naked, high on crack, and obviously out of his mind running through the streets saying that he is God. Obviously he posed a danger at that point. You can argue about how much force is appropriate, and whether the situation should have been handled differently and the social reasons why it might not have been. But that doesn't have any bearing on the LA case.
In the LA situation you have 5 cops, the guy is a skinny little teenager and he is already handcuffed. Once he is handcuffed the threat is basically over. There was no justification for the force at that point.
[quote]Hey, I'm not left-wing and am a Nader man. Although i do disagree with just about everything groverat has to say about anything, don't blame it on Nader. <hr></blockquote>
It is odd that you two both like(d) Nader though you claim a much different ideology than groverat. I wonder, are there aspects of Nader's politics that you both found you could support?
I don't normally pay much attention to what groverat has to say anyway these days. Ever since he abandoned his white trash upbringing to worship the devil at the University of the Beast his soul has been lost to our Lord as far as I am concerned. Plus he doesn't provide me with gay manlove anymore, now that his bleeding heart is enraptured with Shanny.
Age has little to do with what force can be used. How many officers has little to do with it either. Tell that to the 3 cops shot like 2 days later at that meth house down south. You're from Seattle by your name so you should know what I'm saying. The guy rolls up on his bike and starts shooting at 3 cops making the bust, they killed the guy, was that too much force.
My point is only this....they have a crappy, under-paid job, that has huge risks. Kids these days have little respect for the police, so to some extent they are just as dangerous or more dangerous than an adult.
I don't want their job, and feel that in most cases cops are good people. I'm not saying these cops are, but until the full story comes out, it's just a bunch of race card bs to me....GG GF
[quote]None of us know what happened and only saw the tape of the kid being slammed on the car and hit in the face.<hr></blockquote>
Here's what we saw. We saw the kid get slammed onto the trunk while in handcuffs. And while he was in handcuffs we see the cop punch him in the face.
I don't care if this kid was screaming that he was going to rape and kill the cop's mother, there's no reason for hitting a kid in the face in that position.
If he attacked the officer in some way to make the punch self-defense then why hasn't he been charged for it?
[quote]I wish i had the link to the news site, but the cop did put in his report he punched the kid in the face once, after being grabbed in the crotch.<hr></blockquote>
Well he was on tape, so I don't see how he could leave it out.
[quote]I excuse him for that, since maybe what happened before that had the cop worked up...none of us know what happened prior to the taping.<hr></blockquote>
That is... insane.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
Case in point, man gets beat down for non-cooperation in Oklahoma City.
"While he was not actively aggressive with the officers, he was actively noncomplying."
So he gets his ass beat with batons and peppers sprayed after he's on the ground.
We'll get an investigation, a two-week paid vacation for the cops and business as usual.
Absolutely pathetic. Yes, we certainly should just move on and act like it was a random incident.
When you're an officer of the law YOU are supposed to be in control of the situation. YOU have authority and YOU have power, if you abuse that power you should AT THE VERY LEAST be fired immediately. I don't care what the hell happened, but that kid was handcuffed on the trunk when the cop punched him and just as we don't know from what little video we have that the kid hadn't attacked them we don't know if he hadn't been beaten more before slammed against the trunk and jacked in the face.
You assume he attacked them in some way... ask yourself why.
[quote]Now if he was struck by the kid, than to me the rest is what was deserved.<hr></blockquote>
Last I checked... in our system, the cops weren't the ones who doled out punishment. I don't know where you live, but in my country that's not how it works.
[quote]Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?<hr></blockquote>
What was the situation?
If someone goes for your gun then shoot them. If you get them under control and on the ground and/or handcuffed, you don't hit them.
[quote]White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter?<hr></blockquote>
Depends on which party in the incident you're asking.
[quote]Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!!<hr></blockquote>
There is more than enough precedent for white cops beating the shit out of blacks without provocation to make this look fishy. Rodney King's attackers were acquitted for God's sake.
CoD:
You aren't half the manly love machine that Shanny is.
(Are our reservations confirmed for our trip to do Springer in Chicago?)
[quote] White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter? If I'm a police officer and any one of these type of people try to fight or struggle with me, instead of doing what I ask. I'm hitting them with my club, no questions asked, if i feel I'm in danger. Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!! <hr></blockquote>
but we have to be careful of what we so easily excuse...police officers have an extremely hard job and put their lives on the line everyday...but what do we do when 4 police officers shoot a man 41 times when he reaches for his wallet to show them his ID?? do we allow "shoot first, ask questions later" or self-defense even when there is just the preception of danger/fear? if the guy shot is a bad guy with a guy then it is ok, but if it is an innocent guy with no gun do we charge the police with murder?? somebody earlier said that if the police start talking to him he is kissing azz immediately...and i fully agree with that...cop stops me and i am the meekest, most lip puckiering guy around, and i believe that police do need some leway because their job is so dangerous....but i can't stop thinking that it could be my kid in a doorway being shot 41 times...that my kid may never get the chance to act meek and pucker those lips when i police officer gets too jumpy...and then saying that they thought they were at risk and acted in self defense....anyway, it's tough...we want the bad guys off the streets but don't want any innocents hurt...guess i just want "anybody" that fires a gun to be damn sure of what he's shooting at and why...and if you already have somebody cuffed and you want to throw them face first into a car and then punch them a time or two, try not to make it a developmentally slow 16 year old and try not to be video taped....g
Your right...if someone resists they should buy them lunch and cookies until they feel like being arrested.
I think we should just let people totally disrespect authority and just let hell break loose.
As for past cases....we could probably find just as many or more white cops beating white people. Your point is what?
Put a uniform on and then preach to me about what's wrong and right. I respect what they do, and know that at times too much force is used. It's not easy to do their job, but it's sure easy to judge it.
[quote]Age has little to do with what force can be used. <hr></blockquote>
It's not the age directly that is relevant as the accompanying physical characteristics. This was a skinny little 16 year old not a broad shouldered adult. Different circumstances dictate different responses. This particular factor isn't a big part of the equation, but it is part of the equation.
[quote]How many officers has little to do with it either. <hr></blockquote>
It has a ton to do with it. With multiple officers it becomes much easier to simply wrestle a suspect down and overwhelm him and handcuff him. Additionally you can have an officer with his weapon drawn. Obviously this is not possible in the same way with just one officer. This happens all the time. It's one of the reasons why that officer was hoping for quick backup which he did not get.
[quote]Tell that to the 3 cops shot like 2 days later at that meth house down south. You're from Seattle by your name so you should know what I'm saying. The guy rolls up on his bike and starts shooting at 3 cops making the bust, they killed the guy, was that too much force.<hr></blockquote>
Again that is a totally different situation. That guy had a gun. The naked guy who killed the cop and the kid in LA did not have guns. The situations are totally different and officers treat them differently. You act as if police officers should treat all situations the same. That's not possible, they have to use judgement and that is part of what makes it a very difficult job.
Furthermore no one has suggested that the use of force in killing the motorcycle guy was unreasonable force. It was the obvious thing to do. Have you seen anyone protesting that incident? I doubt it. When you are shooting at police officers you are making yourself subject to deadly force and virtually any reasonable person will agree with that.
[quote]My point is only this....they have a crappy, under-paid job, that has huge risks. Kids these days have little respect for the police, so to some extent they are just as dangerous or more dangerous than an adult.<hr></blockquote>
In attitude perhaps. Not in physical stature. But that misses the main point. He was in handcuffs. Once he is handcuffs he no longer poses a danger. Thus, you don't hit him. Have you even seen the video?
[quote]I don't want their job, and feel that in most cases cops are good people. I'm not saying these cops are, but until the full story comes out, it's just a bunch of race card bs to me....GG GF<hr></blockquote>
Most cops are good people. And there are a few bad ones. It happens in every profession. In the particular case of cops, their mistakes are more likely to have physical or life and death consequences. As such their behavior must be subject to scrutiny. Cops certainly get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. And often they deserve it.
What more story do you need? What possible justification could there be for hitting a handcuffed person who is no longer a physical threat? There is no threat to the officers' safety. They have no right to dole out punishment, contrary to what you say. Your choice to pass this off as "race card bs" shows an inability to recognize what is appropriate and what is inappropriate conduct for a police officer or anyone else for that matter.
[quote]You aren't half the manly love machine that Shanny is. (Are our reservations confirmed for our trip to do Springer in Chicago?)<hr></blockquote>
No I'm not half. I'm at least 17% more of a love machine than Shanny. Btw, did you know that you are secretly the love child of Al Franken and Dianne Fienstein?
To paraphrase Chris Rock: "I'm not saying I AGREE. But I can UNDERSTAND!"
But seriously, looks to be a pretty bad situation all the way around. A nice little distraction from the latest War on Terror developments and the Worldcom/Enron mess.
I did see Maxine Waters on a show tonight saying "shades of Rodney King...". I don't know. Quite a leap from a single trunk slam and a half-ass face punch to the wholesale, balls-out ass whipping Mr. King suffered.
Today on the John and Ken show in L.A., they were doing a live remote somewhere and asked the crowd (seemed to be at least 100 people, judging by the sound of it) what they thought of all this.
They asked "is this being made too big a deal of?" and about half the crowd applauded. Then asked "is this truly the most horrible thing that's happened in a long while?", and again about half the crowd (the OTHER half, I suppose) applauded.
Not scientific, of course, but seems that, give or take, the situation has divided people at about the halfway point?
I don't envy cops. I couldn't hold my temper, especially after someone has just attacked, assaulted or otherwise tried to injure/murder me. I'd make a HORRIBLE cop and would probably last about 3 days on the job before I shot someone or beat them senseless with everything at my disposal.
But see, I RECOGNIZE and accept this, therefore I won't be attending the police academy because I'm aware of my flaws and limitations.
If only EVERYONE could do that and make their career decisions accordingly.
Again, though, I have to say this: it's a horrible, illegal and morally wrong thing to do. The cop should be fired. There shouldn't even be a big build-up or back and forth. Just fire him. ESPECIALLY if he's got a history of this crap.
However, that being said, I DON'T think this is the worst sin or crime ever committed on another human being. And there seems to be a segment of the population who is intent on behaving as if it is.
Fire the cop, pay the kid's doctor bills and maybe a little "we're terribly sorry" money. Then shut the hell up.
Tighten up recruitment and training standards. When this happens AGAIN, IMMEDIATELY fire the cop. Send the signal that this will not be tolerated and you'll lose your job.
And again: if everything was reversed, WE WOULD NOT EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT.
The story would've appeared on MSNBC on Saturday night, maybe got a brief mention on the Sunday shows, then that's it.
It has "legs" because it's a white cop beating a black youth. Flip the colors around and this is the biggest yawn, non-story in the history of news.
That isn't "white man's burden", either. That's just how it is. Not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong. It's just how things are reported, played up, payed attention to, etc.
And if you don't see that or agree with that, you're delusional.
If two or three black cops are ever caught on video punching a white teenage skateboarder and the story/interest/drama lasts more than a day and a half, or results in any sort of prolonged, heated debate, "Special Reports", soul-searching, civil unrest, etc. I'll eat my own arm.
I mean, go flip on the news right now. If you didn't know anything about this story, you'd assume from the intense coverage and yelling and all that 42 white cops put on white sheets and rolled into Compton and shot every black person who stuck their head out the door.
EVERYONE, on BOTH sides, needs to take a chill pill or two, and wash it down with their favorite adult beverage before this just gets completely out of control and ugly.
Fire the cop, pay the kid (hell, name a street after him if it'll help ease the pain and anger) and then shut the **** up.
The cop can go work in a video arcade for $6.24/hour and reflect on what a dumb-ass he is and how he blew it...
So what size skirt and color did you say you wanted?
No honestly I hear your side loud and clear....we just disagree in the gray areas. In the end, the cop is wrong for hitting the kid after he was handcuffed.. That's the easy part of this story.
Comments
Suspected gang activity in a park. One of the guys there is "uncooperative and beligerent" and ends up getting his ass kicked. Not charged with anything afterwards... hrm... sounds like some small-dicked white cops didn't like a black man getting smart with them.
If it looks like police brutality and walks like police brutality, it must be oppression of poor white cops. Because, after all, *they* aren't the ones with the power.
Who are you responding to with all the "white man" stuff?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Various posters at once. Kind of like I hacked off pieces of each person's view point and built one nice big strawman to battle.
As for my digust with the White Man's Burden being cried about like simpering babies...
"But I'm sick of things being twisted around in to something it's not just because the person that does it is white."
*sniff* *sniff* *puke*
<strong>No way, man, you'll get my Green party membership card and my electric scooter when you pry my cold, dead fingers off them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The green party and the libertarian party should merge. They could be the Greenbertarians or the Libergreens. Join forces for the greater good--we need to get rid of the Republicrats and the Demopublicans.
<strong>I didn't address you personally for a reason, you paranoid freak.
Various posters at once. Kind of like I hacked off pieces of each person's view point and built one nice big strawman to battle.
As for my digust with the White Man's Burden being cried about like simpering babies...
"But I'm sick of things being twisted around in to something it's not just because the person that does it is white."
*sniff* *sniff* *puke*</strong><hr></blockquote>
Huh?
Sometimes a little police brutality is just good community service.
I'd like to see the whole tape and know the complete background of everyone involved (officers and the two men) before I decided.
Now in the tape you can't tell if this happened, but the report was filed before this became public. So in my mind at least the cop was somewhat honest in saying he hit the kid. He didn't say he slammed him on the car, but sometimes people don't realize the force they use at the time. I excuse him for that, since maybe what happened before that had the cop worked up...none of us know what happened prior to the taping.
I did see a cut on the cops head, it's totally visible in the tape. Now if he was struck by the kid, than to me the rest is what was deserved.
To me after having a cop killed here in Seattle after a struggle and shot with his own gun, what is too much force? This particular cop tried pepper spray and it only made the criminal more mad. The guy who shot him with his own gun was a minority. Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?
White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter? If I'm a police officer and any one of these type of people try to fight or struggle with me, instead of doing what I ask. I'm hitting them with my club, no questions asked, if i feel I'm in danger. Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!!
<strong>The green party and the libertarian party should merge. They could be the Greenbertarians or the Libergreens. </strong><hr></blockquote> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Yeah, then they could get .3% of the vote instead of the .1% and .2% that they get now.
<strong>I should have known a left wing wacko like you would have voted for Nader. Curse you, you Tofu munching, whale kissing, Karl Marx worshipping, first amendment believing, ungodly devil spawned VEGETARIAN!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I'm not left-wing and am a Nader man. Although i do disagree with just about everything groverat has to say about anything, don't blame it on Nader.
You cannot compare the two situations. Here we had a single cop taking on a guy who is buck naked, high on crack, and obviously out of his mind running through the streets saying that he is God. Obviously he posed a danger at that point. You can argue about how much force is appropriate, and whether the situation should have been handled differently and the social reasons why it might not have been. But that doesn't have any bearing on the LA case.
In the LA situation you have 5 cops, the guy is a skinny little teenager and he is already handcuffed. Once he is handcuffed the threat is basically over. There was no justification for the force at that point.
[quote]Hey, I'm not left-wing and am a Nader man. Although i do disagree with just about everything groverat has to say about anything, don't blame it on Nader. <hr></blockquote>
It is odd that you two both like(d) Nader though you claim a much different ideology than groverat. I wonder, are there aspects of Nader's politics that you both found you could support?
I don't normally pay much attention to what groverat has to say anyway these days. Ever since he abandoned his white trash upbringing to worship the devil at the University of the Beast his soul has been lost to our Lord as far as I am concerned. Plus he doesn't provide me with gay manlove anymore, now that his bleeding heart is enraptured with Shanny.
Age has little to do with what force can be used. How many officers has little to do with it either. Tell that to the 3 cops shot like 2 days later at that meth house down south. You're from Seattle by your name so you should know what I'm saying. The guy rolls up on his bike and starts shooting at 3 cops making the bust, they killed the guy, was that too much force.
My point is only this....they have a crappy, under-paid job, that has huge risks. Kids these days have little respect for the police, so to some extent they are just as dangerous or more dangerous than an adult.
I don't want their job, and feel that in most cases cops are good people. I'm not saying these cops are, but until the full story comes out, it's just a bunch of race card bs to me....GG GF
Here's what we saw. We saw the kid get slammed onto the trunk while in handcuffs. And while he was in handcuffs we see the cop punch him in the face.
I don't care if this kid was screaming that he was going to rape and kill the cop's mother, there's no reason for hitting a kid in the face in that position.
If he attacked the officer in some way to make the punch self-defense then why hasn't he been charged for it?
[quote]I wish i had the link to the news site, but the cop did put in his report he punched the kid in the face once, after being grabbed in the crotch.<hr></blockquote>
Well he was on tape, so I don't see how he could leave it out.
[quote]I excuse him for that, since maybe what happened before that had the cop worked up...none of us know what happened prior to the taping.<hr></blockquote>
That is... insane.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
Case in point, man gets beat down for non-cooperation in Oklahoma City.
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/778653.asp"; target="_blank">
"While he was not actively aggressive with the officers, he was actively noncomplying."
So he gets his ass beat with batons and peppers sprayed after he's on the ground.
We'll get an investigation, a two-week paid vacation for the cops and business as usual.
Absolutely pathetic. Yes, we certainly should just move on and act like it was a random incident.
When you're an officer of the law YOU are supposed to be in control of the situation. YOU have authority and YOU have power, if you abuse that power you should AT THE VERY LEAST be fired immediately. I don't care what the hell happened, but that kid was handcuffed on the trunk when the cop punched him and just as we don't know from what little video we have that the kid hadn't attacked them we don't know if he hadn't been beaten more before slammed against the trunk and jacked in the face.
You assume he attacked them in some way... ask yourself why.
[quote]Now if he was struck by the kid, than to me the rest is what was deserved.<hr></blockquote>
Last I checked... in our system, the cops weren't the ones who doled out punishment. I don't know where you live, but in my country that's not how it works.
[quote]Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?<hr></blockquote>
What was the situation?
If someone goes for your gun then shoot them. If you get them under control and on the ground and/or handcuffed, you don't hit them.
[quote]White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter?<hr></blockquote>
Depends on which party in the incident you're asking.
[quote]Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!!<hr></blockquote>
There is more than enough precedent for white cops beating the shit out of blacks without provocation to make this look fishy. Rodney King's attackers were acquitted for God's sake.
CoD:
You aren't half the manly love machine that Shanny is.
(Are our reservations confirmed for our trip to do Springer in Chicago?)
but we have to be careful of what we so easily excuse...police officers have an extremely hard job and put their lives on the line everyday...but what do we do when 4 police officers shoot a man 41 times when he reaches for his wallet to show them his ID?? do we allow "shoot first, ask questions later" or self-defense even when there is just the preception of danger/fear? if the guy shot is a bad guy with a guy then it is ok, but if it is an innocent guy with no gun do we charge the police with murder?? somebody earlier said that if the police start talking to him he is kissing azz immediately...and i fully agree with that...cop stops me and i am the meekest, most lip puckiering guy around, and i believe that police do need some leway because their job is so dangerous....but i can't stop thinking that it could be my kid in a doorway being shot 41 times...that my kid may never get the chance to act meek and pucker those lips when i police officer gets too jumpy...and then saying that they thought they were at risk and acted in self defense....anyway, it's tough...we want the bad guys off the streets but don't want any innocents hurt...guess i just want "anybody" that fires a gun to be damn sure of what he's shooting at and why...and if you already have somebody cuffed and you want to throw them face first into a car and then punch them a time or two, try not to make it a developmentally slow 16 year old and try not to be video taped....g
I think we should just let people totally disrespect authority and just let hell break loose.
As for past cases....we could probably find just as many or more white cops beating white people. Your point is what?
Put a uniform on and then preach to me about what's wrong and right. I respect what they do, and know that at times too much force is used. It's not easy to do their job, but it's sure easy to judge it.
It's not the age directly that is relevant as the accompanying physical characteristics. This was a skinny little 16 year old not a broad shouldered adult. Different circumstances dictate different responses. This particular factor isn't a big part of the equation, but it is part of the equation.
[quote]How many officers has little to do with it either. <hr></blockquote>
It has a ton to do with it. With multiple officers it becomes much easier to simply wrestle a suspect down and overwhelm him and handcuff him. Additionally you can have an officer with his weapon drawn. Obviously this is not possible in the same way with just one officer. This happens all the time. It's one of the reasons why that officer was hoping for quick backup which he did not get.
[quote]Tell that to the 3 cops shot like 2 days later at that meth house down south. You're from Seattle by your name so you should know what I'm saying. The guy rolls up on his bike and starts shooting at 3 cops making the bust, they killed the guy, was that too much force.<hr></blockquote>
Again that is a totally different situation. That guy had a gun. The naked guy who killed the cop and the kid in LA did not have guns. The situations are totally different and officers treat them differently. You act as if police officers should treat all situations the same. That's not possible, they have to use judgement and that is part of what makes it a very difficult job.
Furthermore no one has suggested that the use of force in killing the motorcycle guy was unreasonable force. It was the obvious thing to do. Have you seen anyone protesting that incident? I doubt it. When you are shooting at police officers you are making yourself subject to deadly force and virtually any reasonable person will agree with that.
[quote]My point is only this....they have a crappy, under-paid job, that has huge risks. Kids these days have little respect for the police, so to some extent they are just as dangerous or more dangerous than an adult.<hr></blockquote>
In attitude perhaps. Not in physical stature. But that misses the main point. He was in handcuffs. Once he is handcuffs he no longer poses a danger. Thus, you don't hit him. Have you even seen the video?
[quote]I don't want their job, and feel that in most cases cops are good people. I'm not saying these cops are, but until the full story comes out, it's just a bunch of race card bs to me....GG GF<hr></blockquote>
Most cops are good people. And there are a few bad ones. It happens in every profession. In the particular case of cops, their mistakes are more likely to have physical or life and death consequences. As such their behavior must be subject to scrutiny. Cops certainly get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. And often they deserve it.
What more story do you need? What possible justification could there be for hitting a handcuffed person who is no longer a physical threat? There is no threat to the officers' safety. They have no right to dole out punishment, contrary to what you say. Your choice to pass this off as "race card bs" shows an inability to recognize what is appropriate and what is inappropriate conduct for a police officer or anyone else for that matter.
[quote]You aren't half the manly love machine that Shanny is. (Are our reservations confirmed for our trip to do Springer in Chicago?)<hr></blockquote>
No I'm not half. I'm at least 17% more of a love machine than Shanny. Btw, did you know that you are secretly the love child of Al Franken and Dianne Fienstein?
Now, proper police training and professional ethics aside...
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
To paraphrase Chris Rock: "I'm not saying I AGREE. But I can UNDERSTAND!"
But seriously, looks to be a pretty bad situation all the way around. A nice little distraction from the latest War on Terror developments and the Worldcom/Enron mess.
I did see Maxine Waters on a show tonight saying "shades of Rodney King...". I don't know. Quite a leap from a single trunk slam and a half-ass face punch to the wholesale, balls-out ass whipping Mr. King suffered.
Today on the John and Ken show in L.A., they were doing a live remote somewhere and asked the crowd (seemed to be at least 100 people, judging by the sound of it) what they thought of all this.
They asked "is this being made too big a deal of?" and about half the crowd applauded. Then asked "is this truly the most horrible thing that's happened in a long while?", and again about half the crowd (the OTHER half, I suppose) applauded.
Not scientific, of course, but seems that, give or take, the situation has divided people at about the halfway point?
I don't envy cops. I couldn't hold my temper, especially after someone has just attacked, assaulted or otherwise tried to injure/murder me. I'd make a HORRIBLE cop and would probably last about 3 days on the job before I shot someone or beat them senseless with everything at my disposal.
But see, I RECOGNIZE and accept this, therefore I won't be attending the police academy because I'm aware of my flaws and limitations.
If only EVERYONE could do that and make their career decisions accordingly.
Again, though, I have to say this: it's a horrible, illegal and morally wrong thing to do. The cop should be fired. There shouldn't even be a big build-up or back and forth. Just fire him. ESPECIALLY if he's got a history of this crap.
However, that being said, I DON'T think this is the worst sin or crime ever committed on another human being. And there seems to be a segment of the population who is intent on behaving as if it is.
Fire the cop, pay the kid's doctor bills and maybe a little "we're terribly sorry" money. Then shut the hell up.
Tighten up recruitment and training standards. When this happens AGAIN, IMMEDIATELY fire the cop. Send the signal that this will not be tolerated and you'll lose your job.
And again: if everything was reversed, WE WOULD NOT EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT.
The story would've appeared on MSNBC on Saturday night, maybe got a brief mention on the Sunday shows, then that's it.
It has "legs" because it's a white cop beating a black youth. Flip the colors around and this is the biggest yawn, non-story in the history of news.
That isn't "white man's burden", either. That's just how it is. Not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong. It's just how things are reported, played up, payed attention to, etc.
And if you don't see that or agree with that, you're delusional.
If two or three black cops are ever caught on video punching a white teenage skateboarder and the story/interest/drama lasts more than a day and a half, or results in any sort of prolonged, heated debate, "Special Reports", soul-searching, civil unrest, etc. I'll eat my own arm.
I mean, go flip on the news right now. If you didn't know anything about this story, you'd assume from the intense coverage and yelling and all that 42 white cops put on white sheets and rolled into Compton and shot every black person who stuck their head out the door.
EVERYONE, on BOTH sides, needs to take a chill pill or two, and wash it down with their favorite adult beverage before this just gets completely out of control and ugly.
Fire the cop, pay the kid (hell, name a street after him if it'll help ease the pain and anger) and then shut the **** up.
The cop can go work in a video arcade for $6.24/hour and reflect on what a dumb-ass he is and how he blew it...
No honestly I hear your side loud and clear....we just disagree in the gray areas. In the end, the cop is wrong for hitting the kid after he was handcuffed.. That's the easy part of this story.