[quote]Just a question. What about all those poorass white trash motherfvckers on crack that get the beat down by cops, but it's not caught on tape? If it's not on tape, does it mean it doesn't happen? <hr></blockquote>
That's wrong as well.
I don't see how white crackheads getting beat down refutes any previously-made point, though...
He was on PCP and other drugs, yes. He fought the cops, yes. He wouldn't cooperate, yes. I don't care how much backstory you give me but when I see a completely immobile man getting savagely beaten by 4+ cops with batons for over 10 seconds I don't think, "Wow, I wonder what he did to deserve that?".
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hence my second point.
Do realise though that it could have all gone differently. He could have ploughed down some kid or someones mother. Keep that in mind.
It's strange that in our society we seem to reward failure. Why is attempted murder not as bad as murder? The intent is the same yet in one case the perp does a good job and in the other he makes a balls of it.
You shot someone in the head? Life
You tried to shoot someone in the head but hit his shoulder? 10 years.
You drove around on PCP and attacked some cops who, thank God, managed to spot you before you did some damage? Poor you, they beat the crap out of you.
You drove around on PCP, managed to get away with it long enough to kill someone? You bastard!
I don't see how white crackheads getting beat down refutes any previously-made point, though... <hr></blockquote>
Here's a point for you.....a white guy getting beat down doesn't sell news. Not many people would think much of it, besdies maybe he was actually doing something wrong and deserved it. Warped thinking ..Yes it is, but in most cases it's the truth.
With most News...if you can't spin it into a bad direction, then we won't spin it at all.
[quote] Difference here is, the kid wasn't being spoken to in a foreign language. Just because he's slow, doesn't mean he doesn't understand english. <hr></blockquote>
yes he understands english, if you talk slow and he is given time to process what is said to him....
ok, how is this then...you are driving in the back swamp-lands of Louisiana...you are pulled over my a cop with a "Heavy" cajun accent and he quickly yells repeated instructions that you can't understand...the more you don't react correctly, the more agitated he becomes and he yells louder and faster...what do you do?? you're in america and the cop is speaking english (of a sort) yet you still do not understand him and can not be sure of what he is asking and how you should react...g
[quote]He could have ploughed down some kid or someones mother.<hr></blockquote>
What does that matter?
[quote]Don't you find that strange?<hr></blockquote>
No, because it would be idiotic to handle it any other way.
--
[quote]Here's a point for you.....a white guy getting beat down doesn't sell news.<hr></blockquote>
Remember that Reginald Denny guy we were talking about earlier? Does he not count?
As far as selling news, I'll disagree again. Cops beating on blacks seems to be the big story now, but there's nothing to say that it's at the cost of reporting cop-on-white abuse.
[quote]Not many people would think much of it, besdies maybe he was actually doing something wrong and deserved it. Warped thinking ..Yes it is, but in most cases it's the truth.<hr></blockquote>
No, it's not the truth.
Reginald Denny got his ass beat live on TV and to this day is a common subject relating to these matters.
Here's a point for you.....a white guy getting beat down doesn't sell news. Not many people would think much of it, besdies maybe he was actually doing something wrong and deserved it. Warped thinking ..Yes it is, but in most cases it's the truth.
With most News...if you can't spin it into a bad direction, then we won't spin it at all. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make. I guess grovey's got them rose colored glasses on today.
yes he understands english, if you talk slow and he is given time to process what is said to him....
ok, how is this then...you are driving in the back swamp-lands of Louisiana...you are pulled over my a cop with a "Heavy" cajun accent and he quickly yells repeated instructions that you can't understand...the more you don't react correctly, the more agitated he becomes and he yells louder and faster...what do you do?? you're in america and the cop is speaking english (of a sort) yet you still do not understand him and can not be sure of what he is asking and how you should react...g
Why would he be yelling at me if he's just pulling me over? If he walks up to the car after pulling me over, and starts talking to me in a thick cajun accent and I can't understand him, I don't think he'd get agitated if we are both calm and I say to him that i'm having trouble understanding him. But if he were looking to beat some honkey ass, it wouldn't matter how calm were both are.
Oh Lord, rose colored glasses, we've got a catch phrase.
What difference does it make, squash? If anything, the fact that Denny's beating has been so played up dispells the idiotic idea that the media covers up black-on-white violence on purpose.
[quote]What difference does it make, squash? If anything, the fact that Denny's beating has been so played up dispells the idiotic idea that the media covers up black-on-white violence on purpose. <hr></blockquote>
Uhh i never said anything about cover-ups. I think just the opposite actually. I think we see more of these types of things because they sell papers and they get ratings on TV.
Maybe this comparison although totally off topic will help. We see sports stars names in the headlines for DUI's all the time, but if i get one...it never would make the paper.
My point being for every video of a kid getting hit my a cop there are 10 others that never warrant a story, because it doesn't have an edge to it. I'm not defending anyone in this case grove......just pointing out the obvious.
That matters because if Rodney King had ploughed in to someone, like it happens every day, it wouldn't even have come off the local cable channel and no one in America would have been the wiser.
However, cops beat the crap out of him. Someone turns on the video half way through and all of a sudden everybody focuses on these cops more than on Rodney King.
Sure, these cops should have been punished. I can understand they were pissed off with this guy but they're cops, it shouldn't provoke them. They should be professionals.
However, people should have kept perspective and realised that someone souped up on drugs that gets in to a car knows that he is putting everyone in danger.
To me, it's nothing short of attempted murder. Rodney, regardless of the seperate matter of his beating, should have gone inside for at least 10 years. Especially since he was a repeated felon.
Just because Rodney got beat doesn't make him less of a criminal. He drove under the influence and he attacked police officers. That's a crime in any country.
Just because he happened not to kill anyone doesn't mean he couldn't have.
Why should we say: "Way to go man, you emptied your gun on a schoolbus but you didn't hit anyone because you're a lousy shot. Well done - 10 years"
When we do say "All good and well that you shot your wifebeating husband Miss but it's still murder 1. 20 years"?
That's what your advocating here.
Rodney didn't kill anyone so let's all concentrate on that he got his ass kicked.
No! There are no victims in the Rodney King case. The only victims there are the people that got their shops, or more, smashed in the riots that followed the, sham of a, trial.
It's crooked. Rodney kills someone, local newspaper. Rodney gets pulled over and his ass kicked, poor Rodney.
I'm glad Rodney got pulled over before he killed someone. If I had to chose, I'd much rather see him getting his backside whooped than him making a real innocent victim.
If you let the state do some smackin' and don't shout about it, you set a dangerous precedent. Smackin' states end up smackin' you, as states tend to be pro-state and not pro-you, so you don't want them to have smackin' in their armoury.
Hey MacFenian... are you familiar with the cyclops chapter of Ulysses?
You say that people are falling over themselves to cry victim. But you don't know what the hell your talking about. Have you ever lived in a neighborhood where a people were actively treated like the 'enemy' simply because of who they are? Where the police really do brutalize you unnecessarily because of ideas about racial inferiority . . .ideas that they may not even be able to acknowledge directly but which show up in the form of condescension and repeated brutality. Do you get alot of that in Cork? Systematic job descrimination, en masse investment, entrepeneurship loan discrimination, bank descrimination, and on top of that constant police presence from what seems like an alien nation where the police are practically 'occupiers' of a foriegn country . . . ever felt that way Irishman?
As for Rodney king, yeah he should get punnished for his crime and so should the officers have, at least, been fined.
[quote]That matters because if Rodney King had ploughed in to someone, like it happens every day, it wouldn't even have come off the local cable channel and no one in America would have been the wiser.<hr></blockquote>
If my Aunt Mary had balls she'd be my Uncle Mark.
What does "if he had" matter?
People getting run over isn't news, cops beating the absolute hell out of an already beaten man is.
Just because Rodney got beat doesn't make him less of a criminal. He drove under the influence and he attacked police officers. That's a crime in any country.
[quote]Just because he happened not to kill anyone doesn't mean he couldn't have.<hr></blockquote>
And you could've killed someone driving to work today, it's a stupid argument.
If we started prosecuting people on what they could have done our jail system would be more overcrowded than it is now and we'd be typing this from our cells.
[quote]Rodney didn't kill anyone so let's all concentrate on that he got his ass kicked.<hr></blockquote>
So we should concentrate on the fact that he could've killed someone?
[quote]There are no victims in the Rodney King case.<hr></blockquote>
[quote] Why would he be yelling at me if he's just pulling me over? If he walks up to the car after pulling me over, and starts talking to me in a thick cajun accent and I can't understand him, I don't think he'd get agitated if we are both calm and I say to him that i'm having trouble understanding him. But if he were looking to beat some honkey ass, it wouldn't matter how calm were both are.
Again, I still don't see your point. <hr></blockquote>
the boy has a learning disability that makes it difficult to understand instructions....so he doesn't react to the cop, so the cop gets mad and beats him....as for the "both calm" aspect of your argument...if you are being pulled over there may not be a calm aspect at all....my wife, god bless all 5'3" of her, was driving home with my youngest daughter in the car two years ago...we live in a very affluent semi-rural area and she was about 3 miles from home when a cop car going the opposite direction jumped the medium and got right on her tail...she was kinda freaked out and was about to pull off near the local market because she thought the cop might not be a cop the way he was driving since she "knew" she had done nothing wrong....just as she was getting ready to pull over the cop backs off a bit, so she relaxed some and decided to keep heading home...a half mile past the market the cop puts on his flashing lights...now my wife is freaked because she is past the market where she would have felt save and is being pulled over near nothing and nobody....she tells my daughter to lock the doors because she isn't sure this is really a cop (we had incidents of fake cops a while back)...but she pulls over, cracks her window and waits for the cop to come up along side her car...but he doesn't...he walks to the middle of the road (two lane "highway") with gun drawn and points his weapon right at my wife while yelling for her to put her hands out the window...now my wife is freaking and my daughter turns white as a ghost...my wife has no time, nor the mindset at this point to "be calm"...luckily she understands the cop and gets her hands quickly out the window...he comes closer to the car, still aiming his gun at her and tells her to slowly unlock the back door...she does and he opens it and looks in the back of the car...he then looks over to my daughter and asks if she knows the woman driving....luckily again, my daughter doesn't try to get back at her mom for whatever and says, "yes that is my mom"...so slowly the cop lowers the weapon and tells my wife that a car matching hers was just reported as abducting a child....he quickly checks her license and registration and then leaves...now my wife has to sit in the car for 5 to 10 minutes just to compose herself enough to drive home....we laugh about it now and it makes a good party story, but it scared the sh!t out of her at the time and it shows that not every situation is a calm and reasoned one....so, shanny, you're driving in cajun country and a cop is shot and the getaway car matches the description of your car...you get pulled over and the cops come with guns drawn and YELLING at you and you don't understand them...will this be a calm interaction?? will your react just the way the cops want you too?? g
If you let the state do some smackin' and don't shout about it, you set a dangerous precedent. Smackin' states end up smackin' you, as states tend to be pro-state and not pro-you, so you don't want them to have smackin' in their armoury.
You're not in Cork, are you?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lads,
I would sincerely appreciate it if you could read all of my posts before you comment. I'm not saying what the cops did is right. I've not said that in any of the posts in this thread. I've actually condemned it. I've said this cop should be fired and I've said that the Rodney King cops were wrong too.
Yes, I am in Cork. As it says behind the "from" thingy
Comments
Go, Shanny, kick that straw man's ass!
[quote]Just a question. What about all those poorass white trash motherfvckers on crack that get the beat down by cops, but it's not caught on tape? If it's not on tape, does it mean it doesn't happen? <hr></blockquote>
That's wrong as well.
I don't see how white crackheads getting beat down refutes any previously-made point, though...
<strong>
He was on PCP and other drugs, yes. He fought the cops, yes. He wouldn't cooperate, yes. I don't care how much backstory you give me but when I see a completely immobile man getting savagely beaten by 4+ cops with batons for over 10 seconds I don't think, "Wow, I wonder what he did to deserve that?".
Hence my second point.
Do realise though that it could have all gone differently. He could have ploughed down some kid or someones mother. Keep that in mind.
It's strange that in our society we seem to reward failure. Why is attempted murder not as bad as murder? The intent is the same yet in one case the perp does a good job and in the other he makes a balls of it.
You shot someone in the head? Life
You tried to shoot someone in the head but hit his shoulder? 10 years.
You drove around on PCP and attacked some cops who, thank God, managed to spot you before you did some damage? Poor you, they beat the crap out of you.
You drove around on PCP, managed to get away with it long enough to kill someone? You bastard!
Don't you find that strange?
I don't see how white crackheads getting beat down refutes any previously-made point, though... <hr></blockquote>
Here's a point for you.....a white guy getting beat down doesn't sell news. Not many people would think much of it, besdies maybe he was actually doing something wrong and deserved it. Warped thinking ..Yes it is, but in most cases it's the truth.
With most News...if you can't spin it into a bad direction, then we won't spin it at all.
yes he understands english, if you talk slow and he is given time to process what is said to him....
ok, how is this then...you are driving in the back swamp-lands of Louisiana...you are pulled over my a cop with a "Heavy" cajun accent and he quickly yells repeated instructions that you can't understand...the more you don't react correctly, the more agitated he becomes and he yells louder and faster...what do you do?? you're in america and the cop is speaking english (of a sort) yet you still do not understand him and can not be sure of what he is asking and how you should react...g
[ 07-15-2002: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
What does that matter?
[quote]Don't you find that strange?<hr></blockquote>
No, because it would be idiotic to handle it any other way.
--
[quote]Here's a point for you.....a white guy getting beat down doesn't sell news.<hr></blockquote>
Remember that Reginald Denny guy we were talking about earlier? Does he not count?
As far as selling news, I'll disagree again. Cops beating on blacks seems to be the big story now, but there's nothing to say that it's at the cost of reporting cop-on-white abuse.
[quote]Not many people would think much of it, besdies maybe he was actually doing something wrong and deserved it. Warped thinking ..Yes it is, but in most cases it's the truth.<hr></blockquote>
No, it's not the truth.
Reginald Denny got his ass beat live on TV and to this day is a common subject relating to these matters.
<strong>
Here's a point for you.....a white guy getting beat down doesn't sell news. Not many people would think much of it, besdies maybe he was actually doing something wrong and deserved it. Warped thinking ..Yes it is, but in most cases it's the truth.
With most News...if you can't spin it into a bad direction, then we won't spin it at all.
Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make. I guess grovey's got them rose colored glasses on today.
Reginald Denny got his ass beat live on TV and to this day is a common subject relating to these matters. <hr></blockquote>
Oh and who was beating him down? It was news for a whole different reason than what happened to this kid. Please try to be realistic with comparisons.
Take the rose colored glasses off. We all know what makes news and what doesn't.
<strong>
yes he understands english, if you talk slow and he is given time to process what is said to him....
ok, how is this then...you are driving in the back swamp-lands of Louisiana...you are pulled over my a cop with a "Heavy" cajun accent and he quickly yells repeated instructions that you can't understand...the more you don't react correctly, the more agitated he becomes and he yells louder and faster...what do you do?? you're in america and the cop is speaking english (of a sort) yet you still do not understand him and can not be sure of what he is asking and how you should react...g
[ 07-15-2002: Message edited by: thegelding ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why would he be yelling at me if he's just pulling me over? If he walks up to the car after pulling me over, and starts talking to me in a thick cajun accent and I can't understand him, I don't think he'd get agitated if we are both calm and I say to him that i'm having trouble understanding him. But if he were looking to beat some honkey ass, it wouldn't matter how calm were both are.
Again, I still don't see your point.
What difference does it make, squash? If anything, the fact that Denny's beating has been so played up dispells the idiotic idea that the media covers up black-on-white violence on purpose.
Uhh i never said anything about cover-ups. I think just the opposite actually. I think we see more of these types of things because they sell papers and they get ratings on TV.
Maybe this comparison although totally off topic will help. We see sports stars names in the headlines for DUI's all the time, but if i get one...it never would make the paper.
My point being for every video of a kid getting hit my a cop there are 10 others that never warrant a story, because it doesn't have an edge to it. I'm not defending anyone in this case grove......just pointing out the obvious.
<strong>Oh Lord, rose colored glasses, we've got a catch phrase.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I said it first!
That matters because if Rodney King had ploughed in to someone, like it happens every day, it wouldn't even have come off the local cable channel and no one in America would have been the wiser.
However, cops beat the crap out of him. Someone turns on the video half way through and all of a sudden everybody focuses on these cops more than on Rodney King.
Sure, these cops should have been punished. I can understand they were pissed off with this guy but they're cops, it shouldn't provoke them. They should be professionals.
However, people should have kept perspective and realised that someone souped up on drugs that gets in to a car knows that he is putting everyone in danger.
To me, it's nothing short of attempted murder. Rodney, regardless of the seperate matter of his beating, should have gone inside for at least 10 years. Especially since he was a repeated felon.
Just because Rodney got beat doesn't make him less of a criminal. He drove under the influence and he attacked police officers. That's a crime in any country.
Just because he happened not to kill anyone doesn't mean he couldn't have.
Why should we say: "Way to go man, you emptied your gun on a schoolbus but you didn't hit anyone because you're a lousy shot. Well done - 10 years"
When we do say "All good and well that you shot your wifebeating husband Miss but it's still murder 1. 20 years"?
That's what your advocating here.
Rodney didn't kill anyone so let's all concentrate on that he got his ass kicked.
No! There are no victims in the Rodney King case. The only victims there are the people that got their shops, or more, smashed in the riots that followed the, sham of a, trial.
It's crooked. Rodney kills someone, local newspaper. Rodney gets pulled over and his ass kicked, poor Rodney.
I'm glad Rodney got pulled over before he killed someone. If I had to chose, I'd much rather see him getting his backside whooped than him making a real innocent victim.
The difference is THE STATE.
If you let the state do some smackin' and don't shout about it, you set a dangerous precedent. Smackin' states end up smackin' you, as states tend to be pro-state and not pro-you, so you don't want them to have smackin' in their armoury.
You're not in Cork, are you?
You say that people are falling over themselves to cry victim. But you don't know what the hell your talking about. Have you ever lived in a neighborhood where a people were actively treated like the 'enemy' simply because of who they are? Where the police really do brutalize you unnecessarily because of ideas about racial inferiority . . .ideas that they may not even be able to acknowledge directly but which show up in the form of condescension and repeated brutality. Do you get alot of that in Cork? Systematic job descrimination, en masse investment, entrepeneurship loan discrimination, bank descrimination, and on top of that constant police presence from what seems like an alien nation where the police are practically 'occupiers' of a foriegn country . . . ever felt that way Irishman?
As for Rodney king, yeah he should get punnished for his crime and so should the officers have, at least, been fined.
If my Aunt Mary had balls she'd be my Uncle Mark.
What does "if he had" matter?
People getting run over isn't news, cops beating the absolute hell out of an already beaten man is.
Just because Rodney got beat doesn't make him less of a criminal. He drove under the influence and he attacked police officers. That's a crime in any country.
[quote]Just because he happened not to kill anyone doesn't mean he couldn't have.<hr></blockquote>
And you could've killed someone driving to work today, it's a stupid argument.
If we started prosecuting people on what they could have done our jail system would be more overcrowded than it is now and we'd be typing this from our cells.
[quote]Rodney didn't kill anyone so let's all concentrate on that he got his ass kicked.<hr></blockquote>
So we should concentrate on the fact that he could've killed someone?
[quote]There are no victims in the Rodney King case.<hr></blockquote>
Right... well I see you've lost it. Good for you.
<strong>
And you could've killed someone driving to work today, it's a stupid argument.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt very highly that he was hopped up on PCP on the way to work today. Just a thought.
Point being: Unless King did run someone over talking about it in regards to the ass-whooping he received makes no sense.
Again, I still don't see your point. <hr></blockquote>
the boy has a learning disability that makes it difficult to understand instructions....so he doesn't react to the cop, so the cop gets mad and beats him....as for the "both calm" aspect of your argument...if you are being pulled over there may not be a calm aspect at all....my wife, god bless all 5'3" of her, was driving home with my youngest daughter in the car two years ago...we live in a very affluent semi-rural area and she was about 3 miles from home when a cop car going the opposite direction jumped the medium and got right on her tail...she was kinda freaked out and was about to pull off near the local market because she thought the cop might not be a cop the way he was driving since she "knew" she had done nothing wrong....just as she was getting ready to pull over the cop backs off a bit, so she relaxed some and decided to keep heading home...a half mile past the market the cop puts on his flashing lights...now my wife is freaked because she is past the market where she would have felt save and is being pulled over near nothing and nobody....she tells my daughter to lock the doors because she isn't sure this is really a cop (we had incidents of fake cops a while back)...but she pulls over, cracks her window and waits for the cop to come up along side her car...but he doesn't...he walks to the middle of the road (two lane "highway") with gun drawn and points his weapon right at my wife while yelling for her to put her hands out the window...now my wife is freaking and my daughter turns white as a ghost...my wife has no time, nor the mindset at this point to "be calm"...luckily she understands the cop and gets her hands quickly out the window...he comes closer to the car, still aiming his gun at her and tells her to slowly unlock the back door...she does and he opens it and looks in the back of the car...he then looks over to my daughter and asks if she knows the woman driving....luckily again, my daughter doesn't try to get back at her mom for whatever and says, "yes that is my mom"...so slowly the cop lowers the weapon and tells my wife that a car matching hers was just reported as abducting a child....he quickly checks her license and registration and then leaves...now my wife has to sit in the car for 5 to 10 minutes just to compose herself enough to drive home....we laugh about it now and it makes a good party story, but it scared the sh!t out of her at the time and it shows that not every situation is a calm and reasoned one....so, shanny, you're driving in cajun country and a cop is shot and the getaway car matches the description of your car...you get pulled over and the cops come with guns drawn and YELLING at you and you don't understand them...will this be a calm interaction?? will your react just the way the cops want you too?? g
[ 07-15-2002: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
<strong>Fenian,
The difference is THE STATE.
If you let the state do some smackin' and don't shout about it, you set a dangerous precedent. Smackin' states end up smackin' you, as states tend to be pro-state and not pro-you, so you don't want them to have smackin' in their armoury.
You're not in Cork, are you?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lads,
I would sincerely appreciate it if you could read all of my posts before you comment. I'm not saying what the cops did is right. I've not said that in any of the posts in this thread. I've actually condemned it. I've said this cop should be fired and I've said that the Rodney King cops were wrong too.
Yes, I am in Cork. As it says behind the "from" thingy
Yes, every time I set foot in England, Scotland, Wales and the six counties.
Not everyone there makes me feel that way though. That's why I know not to blame each and every Englishman, Scotsman, Welshman and Unionist.
We have people here that do blame the lot of them. That's why I'm right and they're idiots.