I used to give a shit about 'racism.' I had been raised to view racism as something white people did. Then I moved to Richmond, VA w/a black chick and learned that it is indeed a 2-way street.
Me and the girl split up after a couple years, but I stayed in Richmond and spent my time working in a detail shop and 'hanging' on the street. This is where I learned to see reality...respect makes people co-exist, not love.
I don't care if a black guy likes me or not, thats a personal issue. But, he better goddamn respect me. Never ask for respect, demand it, 'By any means necessary.'
Now I work in an office where people are afraid to even talk about race. I'm surrounded by white people who say 'I have black friends,' and blacks who think every move is part of a master scheme to take them down. (the 1st 2 rounds of lay-offs were all-white. In the 3rd round, a black woman from my dept was cut...she went straight to HR and threatened an EOE law suite. In order to avoid drama, they gave her an extra 2wks pay. Afterwards, I heard her bragging to her friend down the hall. F' the bi?ch, she was totally incompetent, but had job security because of her skin.)
Most of my friends are 'other' races (asian, indian, spanish). They really don't care about the complaints of blacks. Most of them were not born in the US, but have managed to work their way into money. Hmmm, makes you think.
[quote]Which brings up this cute little question: if Denny, sensing the danger he was in and genuinely fearing for his life/safety, had gunned the engine on his truck in an effort to get out of the area and hit or ran over the SAME GUYS who ended up bouncing bricks off his head at point-blank range, would Denny have been charged with a hate crime?<hr></blockquote>
I love how you ask ridiculous questions like that and then run with your answer as if there's any basis in reality.
And if you honestly think that Denny would've been charged with a "hate crime" you're insane.
At the end of ranting and railing against the phantom situations you kind of lose focus and go off in a different direction. Silly man.
But I still love you!
[quote]And you know goddamn well Denny would've been in TONS of trouble had he made a different decision and revved his engine and ran over (or in any way caused injury to) one of the thugs.<hr></blockquote>
Do you really believe that?
A rolling pscates gathers no moss.
Put down the mouse, pick up the joint and inhale deeply. Calmness, brother, calmness.
If I was in that exact scenario, I'd be terrified. If I gunned my truck and tried to make a break for it (to save my ass), I'd be scared that I might accidentally hit someone (especially if someone ran out in front of me to intimidate me or whatever).
If I knew that if I STAYED there, I may suffer a pretty severe ass-beating (or worse!) at the hands of people who've spent the entire day breaking windows, assaulting motorists, looting stores, destroying property.
What isn't clear about that scenario exactly? What is so "far fetched" and ridiculous?
Do you not think Denny was a TAD bit nervous and maybe a bit scared and worried? Not knowing quite what to do because it was such a freaky and surreal scene in South Central that particular day?
I know I would.
I would become aware VERY QUICKLY that my silly white ass is probably Target Numero Uno, given the neighborhood, the reason for all the unrest, etc.
WHAT is so "far out" and nonsensical about that?
What would you do? Climb out of the truck and quote case history or Constitutional articles to everyone? Offer everyone a beer and hope they've read enough of your posts at AI, so they realize what a swell, harmless guy you are?
ANYONE who has watched the video knows what an awful situation Denny was in.
I think it was a very real fear. AND, being the kind of guy he ultimately was shown to be (forgiving and non-bitter), perhaps he thought "I'll be okay...they're not mad at ME specifically...".
'rat, it probably came as a horrible, horrible shock and surprise to him when the ass-kicking commenced.
As he was laying there, bleeding and trying to not black out, the thought probably crossed his mind that "gee, maybe I shouldn't have stopped and just kept going through the intersection...".
HAD HE DONE THAT, and accidentally ran over someone, do you HONESTLY - knowing what you know and seeing how things tend to play out and being as observant and articulate as you come across - not thing people would lose their shit?!?!
"SEE? SEE?! That mother****er just ran over Markis! Didn't even stop!"
It would probably have inflamed the situation even worse.
When all the smoke cleared and the riots and nonsense died down, Reginald Denny WOULD have gotten into a bit of a jam because he injured someone or ran over them while trying to escape.
And there WOULD be people (I can't even ****ing believe I'm arguing this point with you) who WOULD see it NOT as a man scared shitless and driving for his life, BUT as a "white guy who ran over a black kid".
Man, I love you too (haha), but if you TRULY don't think some stink would've come out of that, then I don't even know how to talk to you.
You're on Saturn or something, man.
Do you pay attention to the news and the world? Do you not see what goes on quite a bit and how silly and backwards some things tend to get when a situation is seen ONLY as "black vs. white"?
I don't need to pick up a joint...you need to lay yours down!
Tell you what, next time there's a high-profile, nationally-reported story/situation where a white person accidentally and innocently (and regretfully) makes a horrible mistake (car wreck, mistaken identity, etc.) that results in the injury, death, discomfort, lowered self-esteem, etc. of a minority of some sort, we'll meet here at AI and count the minutes it takes for the situation to get totally blown out of control, nasty, combative and made into a "us vs. them" scenario.
We'll sit together and watch how quickly it goes from a "human making a horrible mistake and wishing it never happened" to "lawsuits, protests, civil suits, solemn talk about how "America is still a racist society...", "Crossfire" debates, O'Reilly devoting a show to it, Limbaugh taking calls about it, Sharpton, Cochran, etc. getting face-time from it, etc.".
A situation just like this once occurred in my hometown. Something that was a COMPLETE accident and was done with no malice or intention was SEEN that way by those who chose to see it that way. And it became the a divisive and ugly situation that the city hadn't seen in a pretty good while.
People IMMEDIATELY made it about race, and essentially uprooted someone's life over AN ACCIDENT.
And accident that, if the race of those involved were reversed (black, law-abiding citizen accidentally injures questionable white youth in a neighborhood of shaky reputation), would've been a page 7 story AT BEST.
It would've been, correctly so, a simple, unfortunate ACCIDENT. And everyone would've gotten over it and moved on and life continues...
Instead, it's on the news every ****ing night for weeks, people are choosing up sides, threats and horrible words exchanged, everyone's on eggshells, stirring up trouble, and generally acting like low-rent, flame-fanning assholes (BOTH sides).
Don't tell ME a goddamn thing about "the world". I ****ing live in it.
[quote]Reginald Denny WOULD have gotten into a bit of a jam because he injured someone or ran over them while trying to escape.<hr></blockquote>
Bullshit. Pure bullshit.
It is beyond ridiculous that you really think that they would go after Denny. There's no logic behind it besides "They're out to get me!"
[quote]Do you not see what goes on quite a bit and how silly and backwards some things tend to get when a situation is seen ONLY as "black vs. white"?<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I know.
Crazy shit happens like, white cops getting away with beating/shooting blacks.
There is absolutely no precedent for your argument that if Denny had gunned it an run over his attackers that he would've been subjected to anything in the way of prosecution or media backlash. That is just illogical.
BTW (just for clarification and all) I originally did ask about the "hate crime" angle, because that's a legit question.
I mean, isn't that the essence of the legislation? If someone is assaulted or killed and it can be shown (by whatever tactics or means law enforcement and attorneys may want to trot out) that the victim was treated that way due to his skin color, gender, sexual orientation, etc. isn't THAT what a hate crime is? That's my understanding of the basic gist of it at least.
If Denny ran over (or got out and shot) a white rioter or looter, then it's just "two white guys involved in a situation...". Wouldn't the race of one of the brick-throwers make it at least POSSIBLE that SOMEONE might raise their head and go "hey, wait a minute..."?
If, under the circumstanced (the danger and fearing for his life and all) that whole thing was averted (and you're right...probably would be, given the circumstances), do you REALLY think that would be the quiet end of it?
That the Sharptons, Waters, Cochrans, Gregorys, et al of the world would simply go "well, it wasn't a hate crime after all...let's pack up and go home and not talk about it any more...".
Do you REALLY see Denny escaping SOME sort of legal and/or financial repurcussions?
At the very least, PR-wise, he'd have his ass handed to him, don't you think?
Take the "hate crime" thing away, and you'd still have professional pot-stirrers and political hay-makers wanting a piece of Denny's ass and probably taking every opportunity they had to make sure he was known as a racist "hit and run driver" or whatever.
There's more ways for a fella to pay for mistakes than jail, you know.
Like I said, he probably would've joined the ranks of this era's popular boogeymen (Fuhrman, Duke, Metzger, etc.) and every time you heard the name "Reginald Denny", you'd probably immediately go "oh, that asshole who ran over that poor black kid during the L.A. riots...what a JERK!".
No matter what, Denny was in a HORRIBLE position that day. One that I pray I'm never in. Talk about having to choose the lesser of two evils: "Let's see: do I run for my life and maybe hurt someone in the process, OR stop my truck, stick around and take my chances with an angry mob...hmmm...this is a tough one...".
If I'm ever in that scenario, the engine gets gunned and I'll deal with the outcome of it later. I'll be damned if I stick around and get my head bashed in and know that my Mom or girlfriend has to see it on TV? Screw that...I'm pegging the gas pedal...clear the road if'n you don't want to get run over!
What's the saying? "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six...".
However, I'm sick of people going on and on about things that happened 400 years ago ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
- The Emancipation Proclamation (1863): 139 years ago
- Civil War (ends) (1865): 137 years ago
- 15th Amendment (1870): 132 years ago
- Voting Rights Law (1965) - 37 years ago
- March on Selma (1965) - 37 years ago
- Rodney King (1991) - 11 years ago
- James Byrd ( 1998 ) - 4 years ago
I hear my relatives take this kind of position all of the time, and I just have to shake my head. Yes, there has been much progress in American race relations over our history. But to declare that race issues are a thing of ancient history is to use the phrase of one poster, "delusional". I have to remind my aunts and uncles that segregation was in effect during their lifetime. There have been multiple race riots during my lifetime. Today we incarcerate a hugely disproportionate amount of minorities. By 2010, New York's planning commission predicts that the hyper-segregated ghettos of the Bronx, Harlem, and Washington Heights will have a population close to that of Houston, Texas, the fourth largest city in America.
Maybe you personally are not racist, but there is convincing evidence that our society is not color blind. As a member of society, that concerns me.
For a humanizing look at poverty and race issues in America, I would strongly recommend Jonathan Kozol's book Amazing Grace.
Don't know if I'd consider them "level headed" Cops that act like Criminals worry me. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not just cops. I'm talking about people in general, and cops happen to be people, with human frailty...and most 'decent' people are heavily protective of family.
[quote]<strong>No. He should have ran their Black Asses over. One nicknamed "Football" was convicted and another one was as well.
We need to hold our Officers up to a higher standard. There</strong><hr></blockquote>
He was convicted of felony mayhem and 4 unrelated misdemeanors instead of attempted murder. He spent a grand total of 3 years in prison. He was later involved investigated for murder though I'm not sure how that story turned out.
---
pscates' question may seem way off-base (I certainly didn't think of posting it,) but if Denny had gunned his big rig and run over his would be assailants, 1) he would not have been beaten 2) we would not have the same sympathy for him. It is actually very likely Denny would have been charged with some crime, though maybe not a hate crime. Denny would definitely be sued for wrongful death by family members...and probably feel guilty for the rest of his life.
[quote]It is actually very likely Denny would have been charged with some crime, though maybe not a hate crime. Denny would definitely be sued for wrongful death by family members...and probably feel guilty for the rest of his life.<hr></blockquote>
MAYBE: If it hadn't been in the heat of the L.A. riots.
MAYBE: If the attackers hadn't already tried to force their way into the cab of his truck.
MAYBE: If they hadn't tried to block his exit path.
Sorry, friends and neighbors, but Denny would've been free and clear, literally and figuratively. No one would've felt bad for thugs trying to riot and force their way into the cab of a truck.
Sorry, friends and neighbors, but Denny would've been free and clear, literally and figuratively. No one would've felt bad for thugs trying to riot and force their way into the cab of a truck.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh, let's see...
Riots + chopper capturing video above + non-black truck driver mowing down rioters trying to save his own ass. This does paint a bleak picture for Denny and the over-all setting. Rioters would have been even more furious. they would have never gotten to Denny after-all, and there would have been no proof that they were actually going to do something to him...maybe just his rig.
[quote]The people that saved Denny... black skin.<hr></blockquote>
Why does this matter? Of course his saviors had black skin, but it has nothing do with what you may be implying. It's irrelevant. Every non-Black person that had been in the area was long gone...except for Denny. You just chastized pscates and now you're pulling the same sheeit. Did you see any riot cops (of any color?) come to his rescue? Of course not...they weren't even in the vicinity.
You would think on this board, that the folks do a little more reading and a little less just pure getting their info from television.
First let me say point blank that I believe the cop did nothing wrong. The tape is obviously cut in a way to portray the cop in the absolute worst light.
Now on to the simple facts of the matter. Television is an interesting thing. As we all now know from our various DVD's with the making of..... you can seriously change the perception of something just by changing the angle at which it is viewed. A punch that is a clear miss can look like serious full blown contact from a different angle.
This kid despite being "slammed" into the car hood and also punched has no noticable swelling. You can bet that if there was an ounce of it they would have taken about a thousand pictures of it. The did take photos of where the chain from the necklace scratched his skin. I don't know about you but when I seriously smack my head against something, I get a sizable bump. Perhaps the things that makes the "slam" seem so hard is the fact that the guy shooting the video is going "oooowwwwwww" into the mic responding to what he sees. That noise is not from the kid, but from the camera man. The angle is from high above the car and people so the angle is not the same as just eye level.
Second the kid's actions, regardless of size or being ignored completely. They are being described as "non-compliance with police requests" which basically makes it sound like he was listening to the police and just standing there. However the videotape quite plainly shows the officer bleeding from a gash above his ear. That bleeding isn't from non-compliance of a verbal command. It is obviously from resisting arrest. The hospital treatment also included lacerations on his elbow and knee. Additionally the officer claimed in his report to have been grabbed in the testicles.
They mention that the kid was handcuffed but if he was complying, why was he still surrounded by all those cops? I see no fewer than three cops around him at any one time during the video. Various written news stories mention that it took four officers to get the boy handcuffed.
Simply put I feel the officer showed more control than I or anyone else would. He hit the kid one time with his fist to get his privates freed. He was not whipping out a baton and trying to hit one out of the park.
How exacting a manner can you expect someone to apply force? The kid needed 5 officers on scene. The officer people are making claims against had already suffered injuries to his head, elbow, knee and privates. He hit the kid exactly one time.
I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with what the police or police officer did.
Apparently two sheriff deputies were making the initial stop and trying to cite the father for driving with a suspended license. The kid began to interfere so they decided to put him in the backseat of the cruiser...when they moved him to the car, he lunged at the deputy and that started a scuffle, then the Inglewood Police came in to assist and then videotaped portion begins.
It's interesting the prosecution in the suits against the more than half dozen officers is using every trick in the book though. It looks like they're going after every single uniformed person who was at the scene. They're claiming the kid has a condition that results in severe "auditory processing delays." They're saying the deputies drove by and gave them mean looks.. They're saying the Black Inglewood officer used racial slurs.
The lamest part is that we're not hearing any witness accounts other than the two sides directly involved, so it's one extreme vs the opposite extreme.
The riots make for an interesting case study in hate crimes legislation (which due to American politics I believe nearly unworkable): Lot's of pissed-off blacks decided to burn and loot a bunch of Asian businesses. Why? 'Cause they'd had it with whites. hahaha...
Grover, you may have the perfect blend of passive agressive bombast masquerading as rationality -- it will likely make for a successful journalistic niche.
Anyway, onto white paranoia...
We had a case here of a teen (16 or 17) who'd gotten into stealing cars. His MOTHER found out and went to the police to help snare her son. The police set up a sting. The kid tried to flee in a stolen vehicle and nearly ran over one of the cops (knocked him over with a jeep). An officer fired at the vehicle, the kid died. White officer. Off-White kid. Guess what? A media circus followed. Racism, police brutality, etc etc... Nothing (legally) came of it, but once the activistic opportunists got ahold of it, I can't imagine it was pleasant for anybody. So the white paranoia is often justified. This is not to say, that in moments of excitment any white person will restrain themselves from paranoia. The cops here had the co-operation of the mother in aprehending her son. Had he gotten away, they liekly would have been able to get him again when you consider his age (naivete) and the fact that his family was primarily interested in getting him arrested -- this wasn't a kid who would get very far. But if someone tries to run me over, I'd probably open fire too. It's a little different from a perp grabbing your nads, I think.
I was in HS when this all went down, and I remember it and the circus that followed it around that year. I knew then, that few people on either side of the race-relations debate were to be trusted. Later political examples and extremely irresponsible media have only confirmed that essential mistrust.
I think that people can, with a little mental effort, tell the difference between brutality and racism and between an honestly begotten fear and it's agressive progeny -- hatred. But a lot of people around the issues don't care to draw the neccessary (objective, if fine) distinctions. They'd much rather mould them to suit a personal end, and they do this to the detriment of the people they propose to speak for.
Uhhh... OK, that was stupid, but I'm too tired to edit it or more clearly draw the associations. I'm going to bed, finally. Hope to make more sense when I wake up.
[quote]non-black truck driver mowing down rioters trying to save his own ass. This does paint a bleak picture for Denny and the over-all setting.<hr></blockquote>
If you remember the setting that particular area wasn't swarming with rioters. He slowed down and came to a stop which gave them an opportunity to attack the truck. If I remember correctly the group that attacked him first was made up of 3 or 4 Mexican kids, not blacks. Then as they got him out of the car and started the ass-whooping more people showed up.
Denny wasn't driving through a throng of people, it was 15-20 scattered over a few blocks. Correct me if I'm wrong.
By mentioning the the people who saved them and their race is merely to illustrate that the actions of the rioters was not condoned by anyone but themselves (and that race-baiting hellhound Maxine Waters).
[EDIT: paring this down because it's a lot of repitition...thank futuremac]
I've spent this morning (Sunday) watching various news shows, and many of them have had this Inglewood situation as a topic, with various guests on, debating all sides of it.
Also, numerous other video clips of other "police brutality" incidents have been shown, as well as several stories or cases cited.
You know what dawned on me? In all the videos I saw (and in the stories being told): the perp/victim (take your pick) was resisting or not complying with the officer's request or demands.
Seems to me (and my simple way of thinking), that this whole issue would go away and cease to be a problem if perhaps more people (black, white, whatever) would simply quit trying to be a bad-ass, or front or engage the officers in a debate and/or actively resist and push back.
If I get pulled over, right or wrong, and a POLICE OFFICER tells me to "get up against the wall and spread 'em" or to "grab some pavement and put my hands and legs out spread eagle", guess what?
I'm going to DO IT. Not going to argue or question it.
I find it really, really hard to believe that cops simply ride around and take every opportunity they have to beat up on citizens, black or otherwise. The cop isn't going to pull out his baton or pepper spray if you're being cooperative and rational. He has no reason to. Would you? Think about it.
Put yourself in HIS position. He doesn't want to deal with a violent, dangerous nutbar and would rather you relax, act normal and deal with the situation like an adult.
That video capture of the Oklahoma guy getting whacked, they just showed the entire footage of it on CNN earlier, and this guy (in addition to being about 10" taller and a good 75 pounds heavier than the cop) simply WOULD NOT comply. The officer got one cuff on the guy and tried REPEATEDLY to get the guy's other hand. The guy spun around, walked away, kept hiding his other hand, flailing his free hand.
When the officer finally had the guy on the ground, the perp kept tucking his hand up under his body. The officer had to keep fishing for it.
Why? Why didn't he just cooperate? None of this would've happened.
How many people, upon finding out they're going to be arrested, have actually TAKEN ON the police (one lone officer or several at once) and actually got anywhere with it? No, the situation only ALWAYS gets worse and violent.
Shut up, cooperate, do what the cop says WHEN he says it and the absolute WORST that will happen is that you get handcuffs on you and have to ride down to the police station in the back of a squad car, and get booked, fingerprinted.
Has there ever been a case of someone just randomly getting an ass-beating by the cops for cooperating? Seriously? Being totally cooperative and quiet and doing what they ask?
I don't know, I'm asking. But it seems REALLY, REALLY far-fetched. Do you not think cops are aware of the outcome and downside if they go around cracking heads at random and for the sport of it? Do you think most cops willingly want to risk a career just for kicks?
Yes, sometimes the police are wrong. They get a bad description, cases of mistaken identity, make a bad judgement call, etc. Even THEN, I truly don't think they secretly get off on beating people up and are looking to do it. Even if they're wrong about you, for the time being just cooperate and NONE of this stuff has to happen.
You'll probably get an apology when it's learned that you're indeed NOT the perp they were looking for or whatever.
And if the embarrassment and shame was so horrible for you, then you can pursue some sort of protest or civil action to regain your dignity or whatever, you know? There are procedures and remedies for this type of thing.
If the cops are TOTALLY wrong about you, I'd MUCH prefer spending some time in cuffs and in a squad car or booking room than having the holy hell beat out of me with batons, sprayed with pepper spray and possibly winding up in the hospital with injuries.
If I know I've done nothing wrong, then I trust and have faith that I'll be okay, and I can take several hours of custody, questioning, booking, etc. if I know it's all for nothing.
NOTHING good is going to come out of acting like an asshole and resisting/fighting the police. Not these days.
In all the cases where police have gone too far, do you honestly think the perp kept his mouth shut, didn't say or do anything stupid or threatening, or otherwise battle or fight the police and make the situation worse?
In any case, it would be an interesting study to conduct: go back through all the cases of police brutality or beatings and see if you can find one case where the perp actually did everything right and cooperated and didn't mouth off, make threats, try and get away or attack the cops and STILL got an ass-whipping. I don't think you'll find it.
i went and looked at all of your posts and couldn't belive the dripping hatred and uncontrolled anger in your posts! i dont know you personally but having been here for the last 3 or 4 years i kinda thought you had it together somewhat...i picture you with your face in a rown, furiously pounding at the keyboard with foam
coming out of your mouth.
and yes thank god you're not a police officer...
but looking through your posts it seems something you have kept submerged is begining to show...
i can only hope that in your next life if there is one you come back as an african american or latino, then you wont have to wonder why they complain...
we live in a conservative area here and i have a number of law-and-order BLACK REPUBLICANS (gasp! yes they exsit) who hav been attacked, beaten (after being stopped while driving nice cars they worked to pay for)had the "n" word used against them so often by police that they are surprised when it ISN'T used!)
these are not your street actvists types, these are well-dressed, well spoken, collage educated,
law-abiding, police supporting, nra members who listen to rush that are being treated like this.
and macfenian the only one here whining about 400 years of slavery is YOU!
i see no blacks on this board blaming you for ANYTHING!
but the intresting thing is that the people who for years have ignored the valid complaints about blacks being mistreated by SOME police officers are now being mistreated in the same way! i've spoken with quitw a number of WHITE citizens who had formerly brushed-off complaints from blacks now complaining thet THEY-TOO! are being assualted by police...
so beware...the assualt you ignore may be your own...
--------------------------------------
below is a collection of samples of posts from pscates, and macfenian. go back and read THE FULL POSTS TO GET THE FULL EFFECT of what they were saying. but i find the repeated unecessary name-calling and foul language (as well as taking the lords name in vain) against certian groups quite telling...
----------------------------------------
I couldn't hold my temper, especially after someone has just attacked, assaulted or otherwise tried to injure/murder me. I'd make a HORRIBLE cop and would probably last about 3 days on the job before I shot someone or beat them senseless with everything at my disposal.
carries around a "down with the pigs" chip
tempted to "resist arrest
(futuremac-yes it must be a natural trait of"them")
show your ass
trying to tempt the cops
strike the jackpot
black perps
I think some black people support other black people, no matter how awful an act they commit
Not making this a "black thing"
(futuremac-of course you're not...)
This kid probably got off easy
(futuremac-yes lets continue to minimize this shall we?)
does anyone know what made this cop go off?
(futuremac-this is implying that the child did something to cause his own beating blame the child..)
every black person in L.A. is going to rally around and support the teen victim
(futuremac-has he polled every black person in la?)
one idiot black person antagonizes one idiot white cop At this point, I don't think I could ever be convinced otherwise
(futuremac-of course not, your mind is permanatly
closed...)
although my skin color and gender alone IMMEDIATELY brands me - in the eyes of some - as "part of the problem
(futuremac-now you know how they feel...)
You DON'T go around using your badge as a license to "whip up on th' nigras
(futuremac-"nigras"? lil slip of the tounge there?
And again: if everything was reversed, WE WOULD NOT EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT
Fire the cop, pay the kid (hell, name a street after him if it'll help ease the pain and anger) and then shut the **** up
(futuremac-yes heaven forbid they should complain...)
I've got/had friends AND enemies of every possible
racial, sexual, gender, religious, cultural, etc. makeup you could imagine
(futuremac-enemies im not surprised about)
And that one son of a bitch, DANCING and celebrating after beaning Denny with the big chunk of concrete or brick. To this day, the footage of that scene makes my blood crackle.
(futuremac-oh? does the footage of king being beaten also make your blood crackle?)
If Denny had stopped his truck, got out with a shotgun and was "lookin' to shoot some niggers
(futuremac-oops! theres the "n" word! feel better now that you found a way to work that into a sentence?)
But I'm a little less patient and forgiving about some things
(futuremac-no!)
Don't tell ME a goddamn thing about "the world". I
****ing live in it
I find it really, really hard to believe that cops
simply ride around and take every opportunity they have to beat up on citizens, black or otherwise
(futuremac-of course not, that never happens...)
The cop isn't going to pull out his baton or pepper spray (he has no reason to) if you're being cooperative and rational
(futuremac-yes,obey and comply and you will NEVER be attacked by police cause they always follow the rules..)
THIS STORY WOULD NOT BE A STORY IF THE STUPID
SONOFABITCH WOULD'VE PRESENTED HIS OTHER HAND
As a black man, are you somehow ABOVE the rules and codes we all have to live by
(futuremac-so you think blacks feel they are above the rules?)
Is putting handcuffs on you (if you've been thought to commit a crime) not politically correct? Shades of slavery? Give me a ****ing break
(futuremac-"handcuffs on you"? you mean "them" are you talking to black people?)
Guess what? ****ing deal with it for the moment
(futuremac-yes just lie there and be beaten for nothing its tough love)
you're not going to take on the police and win, dumbass
I don't care what your past is and what you THINK you're entitled too
(futuremac-yes heaven forbid the black might think he's entitled to be treated the same as you right?)
or how you MIGHT be being wrongfully stopped, arrested, frisked, etc. That's not YOUR call, is it?
(futuremac-yes dont even expect to be arrested properly)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...I'm "white", so I can't
"possibly understand...". Whatever. Shut the hell up and don't even bother me with that crap,because I hear it coming already
(futuremac-yes pscates at this point we can see you dont care at all because its only happening to "them" they should just shut up and take their
unprovoked,unjustified beating like a man right? cause you're tired of seeing it on tv it upsets your lil tummy! well guess what? they're just as tired of being beaten, setup, and dragged with chains...but if it was you i bet you'd be squealing like a stuck pig! i only pray you come back as a nice dark-skinned very ethnic looking black man...
--------
here are "elements" in the black society that love to play victim
I'm just sick of putting up with them
I'm sick of this 400 years crap
(futuremac-yeah the blacks,native americans,jews,armenians,ww2 asians,etc they should all shut up because it was so long ago and YOU'RE TIRED OF IT RIGHT?)
Just let no one start bleeting about Rodney King,
Malcolm X, busses, KKK and slavery again because it's total bull and it gets on my nerves
(futuremac-you're the ONLY ONE whining about it)
I'm sick of people going on and on about things that happened 400 years ago as if we're responsible for them
(futuremac-who blamed you personally? no one)
I'm not denying that white people have commited,
probably, more race related crimes than any other race
(futuremac-you said that)
I understand that black people, hispanic people and so on that say these things are not exactly the majority
(futuremac-eureka! a revalation! i think he's got it!)
I was saying that I don't accept being held responsible for this police brutality just because I'm white just like that cop
(futuremac-"just like that cop" you may be more like him than you think...)
wrongs done by others have been projected on the entire white race
(futuremac-now you know how they feel...)
As a matter of fact, I don't have any black friends. Now I'll just let you speculate as to why that is
(futuremac-dont think thats necessary...)
futuremac-folks the best way to understand something is not to minimize or ignore it (because it may happen to you later) but to imagine yourself in their position...
those of you defending the child (without question, that is) imagine being the police officer!
those of you defending the cop (without question, that is) imagine being the child!
pscates and macfenian you might want to check out a book called "black like me" you might learn something...
Comments
Admirable, I guess. But perhaps that brick to the head juggled his brain a bit?
There's a very good chance I would've strangled the guy who beaned me with a brick on the courthouse steps on live TV, for all the world to see.
But I'm a little less patient and forgiving about some things...
Me and the girl split up after a couple years, but I stayed in Richmond and spent my time working in a detail shop and 'hanging' on the street. This is where I learned to see reality...respect makes people co-exist, not love.
I don't care if a black guy likes me or not, thats a personal issue. But, he better goddamn respect me. Never ask for respect, demand it, 'By any means necessary.'
Now I work in an office where people are afraid to even talk about race. I'm surrounded by white people who say 'I have black friends,' and blacks who think every move is part of a master scheme to take them down. (the 1st 2 rounds of lay-offs were all-white. In the 3rd round, a black woman from my dept was cut...she went straight to HR and threatened an EOE law suite. In order to avoid drama, they gave her an extra 2wks pay. Afterwards, I heard her bragging to her friend down the hall. F' the bi?ch, she was totally incompetent, but had job security because of her skin.)
Most of my friends are 'other' races (asian, indian, spanish). They really don't care about the complaints of blacks. Most of them were not born in the US, but have managed to work their way into money. Hmmm, makes you think.
Fire the cop and pursue battery charges against him. The family can handle their grievances in civil court.
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Keda ]</p>
I love how you ask ridiculous questions like that and then run with your answer as if there's any basis in reality.
And if you honestly think that Denny would've been charged with a "hate crime" you're insane.
At the end of ranting and railing against the phantom situations you kind of lose focus and go off in a different direction. Silly man.
But I still love you!
[quote]And you know goddamn well Denny would've been in TONS of trouble had he made a different decision and revved his engine and ran over (or in any way caused injury to) one of the thugs.<hr></blockquote>
Do you really believe that?
A rolling pscates gathers no moss.
Put down the mouse, pick up the joint and inhale deeply. Calmness, brother, calmness.
Look at my signature and be comforted.
If I was in that exact scenario, I'd be terrified. If I gunned my truck and tried to make a break for it (to save my ass), I'd be scared that I might accidentally hit someone (especially if someone ran out in front of me to intimidate me or whatever).
If I knew that if I STAYED there, I may suffer a pretty severe ass-beating (or worse!) at the hands of people who've spent the entire day breaking windows, assaulting motorists, looting stores, destroying property.
What isn't clear about that scenario exactly? What is so "far fetched" and ridiculous?
Do you not think Denny was a TAD bit nervous and maybe a bit scared and worried? Not knowing quite what to do because it was such a freaky and surreal scene in South Central that particular day?
I know I would.
I would become aware VERY QUICKLY that my silly white ass is probably Target Numero Uno, given the neighborhood, the reason for all the unrest, etc.
WHAT is so "far out" and nonsensical about that?
What would you do? Climb out of the truck and quote case history or Constitutional articles to everyone? Offer everyone a beer and hope they've read enough of your posts at AI, so they realize what a swell, harmless guy you are?
ANYONE who has watched the video knows what an awful situation Denny was in.
I think it was a very real fear. AND, being the kind of guy he ultimately was shown to be (forgiving and non-bitter), perhaps he thought "I'll be okay...they're not mad at ME specifically...".
'rat, it probably came as a horrible, horrible shock and surprise to him when the ass-kicking commenced.
As he was laying there, bleeding and trying to not black out, the thought probably crossed his mind that "gee, maybe I shouldn't have stopped and just kept going through the intersection...".
HAD HE DONE THAT, and accidentally ran over someone, do you HONESTLY - knowing what you know and seeing how things tend to play out and being as observant and articulate as you come across - not thing people would lose their shit?!?!
"SEE? SEE?! That mother****er just ran over Markis! Didn't even stop!"
It would probably have inflamed the situation even worse.
When all the smoke cleared and the riots and nonsense died down, Reginald Denny WOULD have gotten into a bit of a jam because he injured someone or ran over them while trying to escape.
And there WOULD be people (I can't even ****ing believe I'm arguing this point with you) who WOULD see it NOT as a man scared shitless and driving for his life, BUT as a "white guy who ran over a black kid".
Man, I love you too (haha), but if you TRULY don't think some stink would've come out of that, then I don't even know how to talk to you.
You're on Saturn or something, man.
Do you pay attention to the news and the world? Do you not see what goes on quite a bit and how silly and backwards some things tend to get when a situation is seen ONLY as "black vs. white"?
I don't need to pick up a joint...you need to lay yours down!
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
We'll sit together and watch how quickly it goes from a "human making a horrible mistake and wishing it never happened" to "lawsuits, protests, civil suits, solemn talk about how "America is still a racist society...", "Crossfire" debates, O'Reilly devoting a show to it, Limbaugh taking calls about it, Sharpton, Cochran, etc. getting face-time from it, etc.".
A situation just like this once occurred in my hometown. Something that was a COMPLETE accident and was done with no malice or intention was SEEN that way by those who chose to see it that way. And it became the a divisive and ugly situation that the city hadn't seen in a pretty good while.
People IMMEDIATELY made it about race, and essentially uprooted someone's life over AN ACCIDENT.
And accident that, if the race of those involved were reversed (black, law-abiding citizen accidentally injures questionable white youth in a neighborhood of shaky reputation), would've been a page 7 story AT BEST.
It would've been, correctly so, a simple, unfortunate ACCIDENT. And everyone would've gotten over it and moved on and life continues...
Instead, it's on the news every ****ing night for weeks, people are choosing up sides, threats and horrible words exchanged, everyone's on eggshells, stirring up trouble, and generally acting like low-rent, flame-fanning assholes (BOTH sides).
Don't tell ME a goddamn thing about "the world". I ****ing live in it.
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
Don't flake out on me now.
[quote]Reginald Denny WOULD have gotten into a bit of a jam because he injured someone or ran over them while trying to escape.<hr></blockquote>
Bullshit. Pure bullshit.
It is beyond ridiculous that you really think that they would go after Denny. There's no logic behind it besides "They're out to get me!"
[quote]Do you not see what goes on quite a bit and how silly and backwards some things tend to get when a situation is seen ONLY as "black vs. white"?<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I know.
Crazy shit happens like, white cops getting away with beating/shooting blacks.
There is absolutely no precedent for your argument that if Denny had gunned it an run over his attackers that he would've been subjected to anything in the way of prosecution or media backlash. That is just illogical.
Are you really that paranoid?
Are you really that mellow?
BTW, so you CAN run over someone and not get in trouble for it, and have to answer for it? Cool! That's good to know, just in case.
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
I mean, isn't that the essence of the legislation? If someone is assaulted or killed and it can be shown (by whatever tactics or means law enforcement and attorneys may want to trot out) that the victim was treated that way due to his skin color, gender, sexual orientation, etc. isn't THAT what a hate crime is? That's my understanding of the basic gist of it at least.
If Denny ran over (or got out and shot) a white rioter or looter, then it's just "two white guys involved in a situation...". Wouldn't the race of one of the brick-throwers make it at least POSSIBLE that SOMEONE might raise their head and go "hey, wait a minute..."?
If, under the circumstanced (the danger and fearing for his life and all) that whole thing was averted (and you're right...probably would be, given the circumstances), do you REALLY think that would be the quiet end of it?
That the Sharptons, Waters, Cochrans, Gregorys, et al of the world would simply go "well, it wasn't a hate crime after all...let's pack up and go home and not talk about it any more...".
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Do you REALLY see Denny escaping SOME sort of legal and/or financial repurcussions?
At the very least, PR-wise, he'd have his ass handed to him, don't you think?
Take the "hate crime" thing away, and you'd still have professional pot-stirrers and political hay-makers wanting a piece of Denny's ass and probably taking every opportunity they had to make sure he was known as a racist "hit and run driver" or whatever.
There's more ways for a fella to pay for mistakes than jail, you know.
Like I said, he probably would've joined the ranks of this era's popular boogeymen (Fuhrman, Duke, Metzger, etc.) and every time you heard the name "Reginald Denny", you'd probably immediately go "oh, that asshole who ran over that poor black kid during the L.A. riots...what a JERK!".
No matter what, Denny was in a HORRIBLE position that day. One that I pray I'm never in. Talk about having to choose the lesser of two evils: "Let's see: do I run for my life and maybe hurt someone in the process, OR stop my truck, stick around and take my chances with an angry mob...hmmm...this is a tough one...".
If I'm ever in that scenario, the engine gets gunned and I'll deal with the outcome of it later. I'll be damned if I stick around and get my head bashed in and know that my Mom or girlfriend has to see it on TV? Screw that...I'm pegging the gas pedal...clear the road if'n you don't want to get run over!
What's the saying? "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six...".
True.
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
<strong>
However, I'm sick of people going on and on about things that happened 400 years ago ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
- The Emancipation Proclamation (1863): 139 years ago
- Civil War (ends) (1865): 137 years ago
- 15th Amendment (1870): 132 years ago
- Voting Rights Law (1965) - 37 years ago
- March on Selma (1965) - 37 years ago
- Rodney King (1991) - 11 years ago
- James Byrd ( 1998 ) - 4 years ago
I hear my relatives take this kind of position all of the time, and I just have to shake my head. Yes, there has been much progress in American race relations over our history. But to declare that race issues are a thing of ancient history is to use the phrase of one poster, "delusional". I have to remind my aunts and uncles that segregation was in effect during their lifetime. There have been multiple race riots during my lifetime. Today we incarcerate a hugely disproportionate amount of minorities. By 2010, New York's planning commission predicts that the hyper-segregated ghettos of the Bronx, Harlem, and Washington Heights will have a population close to that of Houston, Texas, the fourth largest city in America.
Maybe you personally are not racist, but there is convincing evidence that our society is not color blind. As a member of society, that concerns me.
For a humanizing look at poverty and race issues in America, I would strongly recommend Jonathan Kozol's book Amazing Grace.
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]
[ 07-13-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]</p>
<strong>
Don't know if I'd consider them "level headed" Cops that act like Criminals worry me. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not just cops. I'm talking about people in general, and cops happen to be people, with human frailty...and most 'decent' people are heavily protective of family.
[quote]<strong>No. He should have ran their Black Asses over. One nicknamed "Football" was convicted and another one was as well.
We need to hold our Officers up to a higher standard. There</strong><hr></blockquote>
He was convicted of felony mayhem and 4 unrelated misdemeanors instead of attempted murder. He spent a grand total of 3 years in prison. He was later involved investigated for murder though I'm not sure how that story turned out.
---
pscates' question may seem way off-base (I certainly didn't think of posting it,) but if Denny had gunned his big rig and run over his would be assailants, 1) he would not have been beaten 2) we would not have the same sympathy for him. It is actually very likely Denny would have been charged with some crime, though maybe not a hate crime. Denny would definitely be sued for wrongful death by family members...and probably feel guilty for the rest of his life.
MAYBE: If it hadn't been in the heat of the L.A. riots.
MAYBE: If the attackers hadn't already tried to force their way into the cab of his truck.
MAYBE: If they hadn't tried to block his exit path.
Maybe then, maybe someone besides Maxine Waters would've tried to crucify him.
Sorry, friends and neighbors, but Denny would've been free and clear, literally and figuratively. No one would've felt bad for thugs trying to riot and force their way into the cab of a truck.
The people that saved Denny... black skin.
<strong>
MAYBE: If it hadn't been in the heat of the L.A. riots.
MAYBE: If the attackers hadn't already tried to force their way into the cab of his truck.
MAYBE: If they hadn't tried to block his exit path.
Maybe then, maybe someone besides Maxine Waters would've tried to crucify him.
Sorry, friends and neighbors, but Denny would've been free and clear, literally and figuratively. No one would've felt bad for thugs trying to riot and force their way into the cab of a truck.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh, let's see...
Riots + chopper capturing video above + non-black truck driver mowing down rioters trying to save his own ass. This does paint a bleak picture for Denny and the over-all setting. Rioters would have been even more furious. they would have never gotten to Denny after-all, and there would have been no proof that they were actually going to do something to him...maybe just his rig.
[quote]The people that saved Denny... black skin.<hr></blockquote>
Why does this matter? Of course his saviors had black skin, but it has nothing do with what you may be implying. It's irrelevant. Every non-Black person that had been in the area was long gone...except for Denny. You just chastized pscates and now you're pulling the same sheeit. Did you see any riot cops (of any color?) come to his rescue? Of course not...they weren't even in the vicinity.
[ 07-13-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
First let me say point blank that I believe the cop did nothing wrong. The tape is obviously cut in a way to portray the cop in the absolute worst light.
Now on to the simple facts of the matter. Television is an interesting thing. As we all now know from our various DVD's with the making of..... you can seriously change the perception of something just by changing the angle at which it is viewed. A punch that is a clear miss can look like serious full blown contact from a different angle.
This kid despite being "slammed" into the car hood and also punched has no noticable swelling. You can bet that if there was an ounce of it they would have taken about a thousand pictures of it. The did take photos of where the chain from the necklace scratched his skin. I don't know about you but when I seriously smack my head against something, I get a sizable bump. Perhaps the things that makes the "slam" seem so hard is the fact that the guy shooting the video is going "oooowwwwwww" into the mic responding to what he sees. That noise is not from the kid, but from the camera man. The angle is from high above the car and people so the angle is not the same as just eye level.
Second the kid's actions, regardless of size or being ignored completely. They are being described as "non-compliance with police requests" which basically makes it sound like he was listening to the police and just standing there. However the videotape quite plainly shows the officer bleeding from a gash above his ear. That bleeding isn't from non-compliance of a verbal command. It is obviously from resisting arrest. The hospital treatment also included lacerations on his elbow and knee. Additionally the officer claimed in his report to have been grabbed in the testicles.
They mention that the kid was handcuffed but if he was complying, why was he still surrounded by all those cops? I see no fewer than three cops around him at any one time during the video. Various written news stories mention that it took four officers to get the boy handcuffed.
Simply put I feel the officer showed more control than I or anyone else would. He hit the kid one time with his fist to get his privates freed. He was not whipping out a baton and trying to hit one out of the park.
How exacting a manner can you expect someone to apply force? The kid needed 5 officers on scene. The officer people are making claims against had already suffered injuries to his head, elbow, knee and privates. He hit the kid exactly one time.
I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with what the police or police officer did.
Nick
It's interesting the prosecution in the suits against the more than half dozen officers is using every trick in the book though. It looks like they're going after every single uniformed person who was at the scene. They're claiming the kid has a condition that results in severe "auditory processing delays." They're saying the deputies drove by and gave them mean looks.. They're saying the Black Inglewood officer used racial slurs.
The lamest part is that we're not hearing any witness accounts other than the two sides directly involved, so it's one extreme vs the opposite extreme.
Grover, you may have the perfect blend of passive agressive bombast masquerading as rationality -- it will likely make for a successful journalistic niche.
Anyway, onto white paranoia...
We had a case here of a teen (16 or 17) who'd gotten into stealing cars. His MOTHER found out and went to the police to help snare her son. The police set up a sting. The kid tried to flee in a stolen vehicle and nearly ran over one of the cops (knocked him over with a jeep). An officer fired at the vehicle, the kid died. White officer. Off-White kid. Guess what? A media circus followed. Racism, police brutality, etc etc... Nothing (legally) came of it, but once the activistic opportunists got ahold of it, I can't imagine it was pleasant for anybody. So the white paranoia is often justified. This is not to say, that in moments of excitment any white person will restrain themselves from paranoia. The cops here had the co-operation of the mother in aprehending her son. Had he gotten away, they liekly would have been able to get him again when you consider his age (naivete) and the fact that his family was primarily interested in getting him arrested -- this wasn't a kid who would get very far. But if someone tries to run me over, I'd probably open fire too. It's a little different from a perp grabbing your nads, I think.
I was in HS when this all went down, and I remember it and the circus that followed it around that year. I knew then, that few people on either side of the race-relations debate were to be trusted. Later political examples and extremely irresponsible media have only confirmed that essential mistrust.
I think that people can, with a little mental effort, tell the difference between brutality and racism and between an honestly begotten fear and it's agressive progeny -- hatred. But a lot of people around the issues don't care to draw the neccessary (objective, if fine) distinctions. They'd much rather mould them to suit a personal end, and they do this to the detriment of the people they propose to speak for.
Uhhh... OK, that was stupid, but I'm too tired to edit it or more clearly draw the associations. I'm going to bed, finally. Hope to make more sense when I wake up.
[ 07-13-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
If you remember the setting that particular area wasn't swarming with rioters. He slowed down and came to a stop which gave them an opportunity to attack the truck. If I remember correctly the group that attacked him first was made up of 3 or 4 Mexican kids, not blacks. Then as they got him out of the car and started the ass-whooping more people showed up.
Denny wasn't driving through a throng of people, it was 15-20 scattered over a few blocks. Correct me if I'm wrong.
By mentioning the the people who saved them and their race is merely to illustrate that the actions of the rioters was not condoned by anyone but themselves (and that race-baiting hellhound Maxine Waters).
I've spent this morning (Sunday) watching various news shows, and many of them have had this Inglewood situation as a topic, with various guests on, debating all sides of it.
Also, numerous other video clips of other "police brutality" incidents have been shown, as well as several stories or cases cited.
You know what dawned on me? In all the videos I saw (and in the stories being told): the perp/victim (take your pick) was resisting or not complying with the officer's request or demands.
Seems to me (and my simple way of thinking), that this whole issue would go away and cease to be a problem if perhaps more people (black, white, whatever) would simply quit trying to be a bad-ass, or front or engage the officers in a debate and/or actively resist and push back.
If I get pulled over, right or wrong, and a POLICE OFFICER tells me to "get up against the wall and spread 'em" or to "grab some pavement and put my hands and legs out spread eagle", guess what?
I'm going to DO IT. Not going to argue or question it.
I find it really, really hard to believe that cops simply ride around and take every opportunity they have to beat up on citizens, black or otherwise. The cop isn't going to pull out his baton or pepper spray if you're being cooperative and rational. He has no reason to. Would you? Think about it.
Put yourself in HIS position. He doesn't want to deal with a violent, dangerous nutbar and would rather you relax, act normal and deal with the situation like an adult.
That video capture of the Oklahoma guy getting whacked, they just showed the entire footage of it on CNN earlier, and this guy (in addition to being about 10" taller and a good 75 pounds heavier than the cop) simply WOULD NOT comply. The officer got one cuff on the guy and tried REPEATEDLY to get the guy's other hand. The guy spun around, walked away, kept hiding his other hand, flailing his free hand.
When the officer finally had the guy on the ground, the perp kept tucking his hand up under his body. The officer had to keep fishing for it.
Why? Why didn't he just cooperate? None of this would've happened.
How many people, upon finding out they're going to be arrested, have actually TAKEN ON the police (one lone officer or several at once) and actually got anywhere with it? No, the situation only ALWAYS gets worse and violent.
Shut up, cooperate, do what the cop says WHEN he says it and the absolute WORST that will happen is that you get handcuffs on you and have to ride down to the police station in the back of a squad car, and get booked, fingerprinted.
Has there ever been a case of someone just randomly getting an ass-beating by the cops for cooperating? Seriously? Being totally cooperative and quiet and doing what they ask?
I don't know, I'm asking. But it seems REALLY, REALLY far-fetched. Do you not think cops are aware of the outcome and downside if they go around cracking heads at random and for the sport of it? Do you think most cops willingly want to risk a career just for kicks?
Yes, sometimes the police are wrong. They get a bad description, cases of mistaken identity, make a bad judgement call, etc. Even THEN, I truly don't think they secretly get off on beating people up and are looking to do it. Even if they're wrong about you, for the time being just cooperate and NONE of this stuff has to happen.
You'll probably get an apology when it's learned that you're indeed NOT the perp they were looking for or whatever.
And if the embarrassment and shame was so horrible for you, then you can pursue some sort of protest or civil action to regain your dignity or whatever, you know? There are procedures and remedies for this type of thing.
If the cops are TOTALLY wrong about you, I'd MUCH prefer spending some time in cuffs and in a squad car or booking room than having the holy hell beat out of me with batons, sprayed with pepper spray and possibly winding up in the hospital with injuries.
If I know I've done nothing wrong, then I trust and have faith that I'll be okay, and I can take several hours of custody, questioning, booking, etc. if I know it's all for nothing.
NOTHING good is going to come out of acting like an asshole and resisting/fighting the police. Not these days.
In all the cases where police have gone too far, do you honestly think the perp kept his mouth shut, didn't say or do anything stupid or threatening, or otherwise battle or fight the police and make the situation worse?
In any case, it would be an interesting study to conduct: go back through all the cases of police brutality or beatings and see if you can find one case where the perp actually did everything right and cooperated and didn't mouth off, make threats, try and get away or attack the cops and STILL got an ass-whipping. I don't think you'll find it.
I really don't.
[ 07-14-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
[ 07-14-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
pscates im surprised at you...
i went and looked at all of your posts and couldn't belive the dripping hatred and uncontrolled anger in your posts! i dont know you personally but having been here for the last 3 or 4 years i kinda thought you had it together somewhat...i picture you with your face in a rown, furiously pounding at the keyboard with foam
coming out of your mouth.
and yes thank god you're not a police officer...
but looking through your posts it seems something you have kept submerged is begining to show...
i can only hope that in your next life if there is one you come back as an african american or latino, then you wont have to wonder why they complain...
we live in a conservative area here and i have a number of law-and-order BLACK REPUBLICANS (gasp! yes they exsit) who hav been attacked, beaten (after being stopped while driving nice cars they worked to pay for)had the "n" word used against them so often by police that they are surprised when it ISN'T used!)
these are not your street actvists types, these are well-dressed, well spoken, collage educated,
law-abiding, police supporting, nra members who listen to rush that are being treated like this.
and macfenian the only one here whining about 400 years of slavery is YOU!
i see no blacks on this board blaming you for ANYTHING!
but the intresting thing is that the people who for years have ignored the valid complaints about blacks being mistreated by SOME police officers are now being mistreated in the same way! i've spoken with quitw a number of WHITE citizens who had formerly brushed-off complaints from blacks now complaining thet THEY-TOO! are being assualted by police...
so beware...the assualt you ignore may be your own...
--------------------------------------
below is a collection of samples of posts from pscates, and macfenian. go back and read THE FULL POSTS TO GET THE FULL EFFECT of what they were saying. but i find the repeated unecessary name-calling and foul language (as well as taking the lords name in vain) against certian groups quite telling...
----------------------------------------
I couldn't hold my temper, especially after someone has just attacked, assaulted or otherwise tried to injure/murder me. I'd make a HORRIBLE cop and would probably last about 3 days on the job before I shot someone or beat them senseless with everything at my disposal.
carries around a "down with the pigs" chip
tempted to "resist arrest
(futuremac-yes it must be a natural trait of"them")
show your ass
trying to tempt the cops
strike the jackpot
black perps
I think some black people support other black people, no matter how awful an act they commit
Not making this a "black thing"
(futuremac-of course you're not...)
This kid probably got off easy
(futuremac-yes lets continue to minimize this shall we?)
does anyone know what made this cop go off?
(futuremac-this is implying that the child did something to cause his own beating blame the child..)
every black person in L.A. is going to rally around and support the teen victim
(futuremac-has he polled every black person in la?)
one idiot black person antagonizes one idiot white cop At this point, I don't think I could ever be convinced otherwise
(futuremac-of course not, your mind is permanatly
closed...)
although my skin color and gender alone IMMEDIATELY brands me - in the eyes of some - as "part of the problem
(futuremac-now you know how they feel...)
You DON'T go around using your badge as a license to "whip up on th' nigras
(futuremac-"nigras"? lil slip of the tounge there?
And again: if everything was reversed, WE WOULD NOT EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT
Fire the cop, pay the kid (hell, name a street after him if it'll help ease the pain and anger) and then shut the **** up
(futuremac-yes heaven forbid they should complain...)
I've got/had friends AND enemies of every possible
racial, sexual, gender, religious, cultural, etc. makeup you could imagine
(futuremac-enemies im not surprised about)
And that one son of a bitch, DANCING and celebrating after beaning Denny with the big chunk of concrete or brick. To this day, the footage of that scene makes my blood crackle.
(futuremac-oh? does the footage of king being beaten also make your blood crackle?)
If Denny had stopped his truck, got out with a shotgun and was "lookin' to shoot some niggers
(futuremac-oops! theres the "n" word! feel better now that you found a way to work that into a sentence?)
But I'm a little less patient and forgiving about some things
(futuremac-no!)
Don't tell ME a goddamn thing about "the world". I
****ing live in it
I find it really, really hard to believe that cops
simply ride around and take every opportunity they have to beat up on citizens, black or otherwise
(futuremac-of course not, that never happens...)
The cop isn't going to pull out his baton or pepper spray (he has no reason to) if you're being cooperative and rational
(futuremac-yes,obey and comply and you will NEVER be attacked by police cause they always follow the rules..)
THIS STORY WOULD NOT BE A STORY IF THE STUPID
SONOFABITCH WOULD'VE PRESENTED HIS OTHER HAND
As a black man, are you somehow ABOVE the rules and codes we all have to live by
(futuremac-so you think blacks feel they are above the rules?)
Is putting handcuffs on you (if you've been thought to commit a crime) not politically correct? Shades of slavery? Give me a ****ing break
(futuremac-"handcuffs on you"? you mean "them" are you talking to black people?)
Guess what? ****ing deal with it for the moment
(futuremac-yes just lie there and be beaten for nothing its tough love)
you're not going to take on the police and win, dumbass
I don't care what your past is and what you THINK you're entitled too
(futuremac-yes heaven forbid the black might think he's entitled to be treated the same as you right?)
or how you MIGHT be being wrongfully stopped, arrested, frisked, etc. That's not YOUR call, is it?
(futuremac-yes dont even expect to be arrested properly)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...I'm "white", so I can't
"possibly understand...". Whatever. Shut the hell up and don't even bother me with that crap,because I hear it coming already
(futuremac-yes pscates at this point we can see you dont care at all because its only happening to "them" they should just shut up and take their
unprovoked,unjustified beating like a man right? cause you're tired of seeing it on tv it upsets your lil tummy! well guess what? they're just as tired of being beaten, setup, and dragged with chains...but if it was you i bet you'd be squealing like a stuck pig! i only pray you come back as a nice dark-skinned very ethnic looking black man...
--------
here are "elements" in the black society that love to play victim
I'm just sick of putting up with them
I'm sick of this 400 years crap
(futuremac-yeah the blacks,native americans,jews,armenians,ww2 asians,etc they should all shut up because it was so long ago and YOU'RE TIRED OF IT RIGHT?)
Just let no one start bleeting about Rodney King,
Malcolm X, busses, KKK and slavery again because it's total bull and it gets on my nerves
(futuremac-you're the ONLY ONE whining about it)
I'm sick of people going on and on about things that happened 400 years ago as if we're responsible for them
(futuremac-who blamed you personally? no one)
I'm not denying that white people have commited,
probably, more race related crimes than any other race
(futuremac-you said that)
I understand that black people, hispanic people and so on that say these things are not exactly the majority
(futuremac-eureka! a revalation! i think he's got it!)
I was saying that I don't accept being held responsible for this police brutality just because I'm white just like that cop
(futuremac-"just like that cop" you may be more like him than you think...)
wrongs done by others have been projected on the entire white race
(futuremac-now you know how they feel...)
As a matter of fact, I don't have any black friends. Now I'll just let you speculate as to why that is
(futuremac-dont think thats necessary...)
futuremac-folks the best way to understand something is not to minimize or ignore it (because it may happen to you later) but to imagine yourself in their position...
those of you defending the child (without question, that is) imagine being the police officer!
those of you defending the cop (without question, that is) imagine being the child!
pscates and macfenian you might want to check out a book called "black like me" you might learn something...
oh and i love both of you...
[ 07-14-2002: Message edited by: futuremac ]</p>