Man you must hate it real bad when someone else is right. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> This thread is about free will and free choice. NOT FREE RULES (jackass yourself!). It has nothing to do with 'who makes the rules' it's about whether you have the choice to follow them. Talk about miopia!</strong><hr></blockquote>
co·erce (k?-ûrs')
tr.v., -erced, -erc·ing, -erc·es.
To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.
To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See synonyms at force.
To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.
[quote]gnorant masses? Sounds like you are a substantial portion of those ignorant masses. (or at least you have one between your ears) Don?t surmise that everyone is a dim witted as you are. Don?t think your so clever as to have ?figured it all out?. How many times can I say over again, you have your bloody free will, and what the hell you do with it is your own dang business. I don?t care whether your in heaven OR hell. Your right, you do get eternal damnation if you don?t do what God says, and choosing whether or not to do as God says is your FREE CHOICE. What your really mean is you don?t like the consequences that are in place for choosing not to follow God and in doing so exercising your free will. Well guess what?.nobody cares what you like and don?t like. You can easily go to heaven, and have free will. If I chose to believe then I chose to go to heaven. Simple huh? Sometimes the lemmings leap off in herds, other times one at a time. <hr></blockquote>
To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.
To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See synonyms at force.
To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.
Ya, free will my ass.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And putting a definition up here does what?
God is not forcing you to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. If you are feel threatened that has nothing to do with free will. You are free to act as you will. Don't be such a pussy about the consequences.
How is he dominatin or restraing, or controling you? You can blashphem him all day long and he isn't stopping you. Silly kids and your bitter hate of anything rational.
God is not forcing you to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. If you are feel threatened that has nothing to do with free will. You are free to act as you will. Don't be such a pussy about the consequences.
How is he dominatin or restraing, or controling you? You can blashphem him all day long and he isn't stopping you. Silly kids and your bitter hate of anything rational.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Threat of eternal damnation...hmm................................... ................
i always found it disturbing about christianity that you could lead "decent " life helping others, and abiding by the basic precepts of said religion (thou shall not kill...ect.), yet if you do not believe in god your going to hell. sounds like that kind of a god is a real dickhead in my book and i want nothing to do with him. i mean really, if he's all powerful and all knowing, why would he/she give a shit if we believe in him or not.
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: running with scissors ]</p>
Threat of eternal damnation...hmm................................... ................</strong><hr></blockquote>
WHAT THREAT? That is a consequence of your free will. You DO have a choice (and a pretty easy one to make at that). This is one of the end results of you free choice. That is what the tread is about. Start a new one called 'God isn't fair' if you want to talk about this.
<strong>I don't recall saying I was going to be there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't know either. I thank you for your sympathies toward my nephew. But I believe that came from your heart. So maybe that'll score some points with the big guy up there...
Hello Jonathan! Only going to address my bit of your reply here. BR et al can handle theirs.
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan Brisby:
<strong>
?That's always bothered me too. What's the point in giving us free will if He's only going to punish us by eternal damnation when we choose to exercise it??
--------------------
If you are exercising your free choice then it is YOU who chooses dumbass. Read your own bloody post! Like God would ever come down to ?punish you?. How pious! News flash, you aren?t THAT important to warrant God?s time buddy. You aren?t THAT special. He isn?t punishing anyone. You have the choice, and you are free to chose what you want. Sounds like you have a problem owning up for your decision.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where in my two-line post do I say that God's going to single me out by punishing me in the here-and-now for my transgressions against his Law? I don't think I do. I'm referring to the Hereafter, where God will punish me for all eternity for my manifold sins, chief of which is my not accepting him as my saviour (kind of rough on Mahatama Ghandi, too, I always thought, but I'm sure your God's a great guy really.)
I have no problem owning up to my choices: I do the best I can and when I do wrong I let down me and us rather than some nebulous bearded dude. The threat of damnation is compulsion. Creation is flawed from bottom to top if the Creator wrote blackmail into the script from the beginning.
Firstly, I can't see how you can stand there and boast of the generosity of a, well, a blackmailer who may as well be saying "You don't have to pay, but I will send you your daughters fingers in the post if you don't" (hey, no-one has to pay), and secondly how you can square this kind of behaviour with someone who did after all make everything in the cosmos, who had a choice of His own and who created all the physical and spiritual laws that the universe has operated on from the first moment of creation, with any notion of 'perfection', 'love', 'forgiveness', whatever.
[quote]Originally posted by running with scissors:
<strong>i always found it disturbing about christianity that you could lead "decent " life helping others, and abiding by the basic precepts of said religion (thou shall not kill...ect.), yet if you do not believe in god your going to hell. sounds like that kind of a god is a real dickhead in my book and i want nothing to do with him. i mean really, if he's all powerful and all knowing, why would give a shit if we believe in him or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Being the ultimate power may make you look like a dickhead (since so many people are scared of you or envious of you). Don't take it personally man. Also, you with the magnet. If anyone is being narrow minded etc. it is you. (so lets try to keep the clever comebacks to a minimum shall we?)
Thanks! I actually would love on of these! (The movie they were from was a riot! I love poking fun at catholics (mostly because it's so easy to do!). I wonder if they make 'stripper mary' too? lol <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Thanks again!
Hello. Nice to meet you. My name is BR. It's not often I run across someone who is on the same page as me. I just thought I'd take a moment to formally introduce myself.
I wouldn't know either. I thank you for your sympathies toward my nephew. But I believe that came from your heart. So maybe that'll score some points with the big guy up there...
Comments
<strong>
Yeah, sure pal. See ya there...
Lol. Hey, that sure looks like a plastic toy to me...I WANT ONE!
<strong>
Man you must hate it real bad when someone else is right. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> This thread is about free will and free choice. NOT FREE RULES (jackass yourself!). It has nothing to do with 'who makes the rules' it's about whether you have the choice to follow them. Talk about miopia!</strong><hr></blockquote>
co·erce (k?-ûrs')
tr.v., -erced, -erc·ing, -erc·es.
To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.
To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See synonyms at force.
To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.
Ya, free will my ass.
how very christian of you.
<strong>
Yeah, sure pal. See ya there...
I don't recall saying I was going to be there.
<strong>
co·erce (k?-ûrs')
tr.v., -erced, -erc·ing, -erc·es.
To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.
To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See synonyms at force.
To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.
Ya, free will my ass.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And putting a definition up here does what?
God is not forcing you to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. If you are feel threatened that has nothing to do with free will. You are free to act as you will. Don't be such a pussy about the consequences.
How is he dominatin or restraing, or controling you? You can blashphem him all day long and he isn't stopping you. Silly kids and your bitter hate of anything rational.
<strong>
how very christian of you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
See above. I don't recall claiming to be a Christian.
<strong>
And putting a definition up here does what?
God is not forcing you to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. If you are feel threatened that has nothing to do with free will. You are free to act as you will. Don't be such a pussy about the consequences.
How is he dominatin or restraing, or controling you? You can blashphem him all day long and he isn't stopping you. Silly kids and your bitter hate of anything rational.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Threat of eternal damnation...hmm................................... ................
"Stop using jesus as an excuse to be a narrow-minded, bigoted asshole."
So, please follow my magnet's advice people.
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: running with scissors ]</p>
<strong>
Threat of eternal damnation...hmm................................... ................</strong><hr></blockquote>
WHAT THREAT? That is a consequence of your free will. You DO have a choice (and a pretty easy one to make at that). This is one of the end results of you free choice. That is what the tread is about. Start a new one called 'God isn't fair' if you want to talk about this.
<strong>I don't recall saying I was going to be there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't know either. I thank you for your sympathies toward my nephew. But I believe that came from your heart. So maybe that'll score some points with the big guy up there...
Oh, and BR? <a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/jsbstash/dogmer.html"; target="_blank">You can get "Buddy Christ" here...</a>
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan Brisby:
<strong>
?That's always bothered me too. What's the point in giving us free will if He's only going to punish us by eternal damnation when we choose to exercise it??
--------------------
If you are exercising your free choice then it is YOU who chooses dumbass. Read your own bloody post! Like God would ever come down to ?punish you?. How pious! News flash, you aren?t THAT important to warrant God?s time buddy. You aren?t THAT special. He isn?t punishing anyone. You have the choice, and you are free to chose what you want. Sounds like you have a problem owning up for your decision.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where in my two-line post do I say that God's going to single me out by punishing me in the here-and-now for my transgressions against his Law? I don't think I do. I'm referring to the Hereafter, where God will punish me for all eternity for my manifold sins, chief of which is my not accepting him as my saviour (kind of rough on Mahatama Ghandi, too, I always thought, but I'm sure your God's a great guy really.)
I have no problem owning up to my choices: I do the best I can and when I do wrong I let down me and us rather than some nebulous bearded dude. The threat of damnation is compulsion. Creation is flawed from bottom to top if the Creator wrote blackmail into the script from the beginning.
Firstly, I can't see how you can stand there and boast of the generosity of a, well, a blackmailer who may as well be saying "You don't have to pay, but I will send you your daughters fingers in the post if you don't" (hey, no-one has to pay), and secondly how you can square this kind of behaviour with someone who did after all make everything in the cosmos, who had a choice of His own and who created all the physical and spiritual laws that the universe has operated on from the first moment of creation, with any notion of 'perfection', 'love', 'forgiveness', whatever.
Keep him. I'm with Ghandi.
<strong>i always found it disturbing about christianity that you could lead "decent " life helping others, and abiding by the basic precepts of said religion (thou shall not kill...ect.), yet if you do not believe in god your going to hell. sounds like that kind of a god is a real dickhead in my book and i want nothing to do with him. i mean really, if he's all powerful and all knowing, why would give a shit if we believe in him or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Being the ultimate power may make you look like a dickhead (since so many people are scared of you or envious of you). Don't take it personally man. Also, you with the magnet. If anyone is being narrow minded etc. it is you. (so lets try to keep the clever comebacks to a minimum shall we?)
<strong>
Oh, and BR? <a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/jsbstash/dogmer.html"; target="_blank">You can get "Buddy Christ" here...</a>
Thanks! I actually would love on of these! (The movie they were from was a riot! I love poking fun at catholics (mostly because it's so easy to do!). I wonder if they make 'stripper mary' too? lol <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Hassan i-Sabbah ]</p>
<strong>Keep him. I'm with Ghandi.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's cool too.
<strong>oops
[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Hassan i-Sabbah ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hello. Nice to meet you. My name is BR. It's not often I run across someone who is on the same page as me. I just thought I'd take a moment to formally introduce myself.
<strong>
Being the ultimate power may make you look like a dickhead (since so many people are scared of you or envious of you). Don't take it personally man.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
don't sweat it man. i don't take it personally because i don't believe in god.
<strong>
I wouldn't know either. I thank you for your sympathies toward my nephew. But I believe that came from your heart. So maybe that'll score some points with the big guy up there...
Oh, and BR? <a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/jsbstash/dogmer.html"; target="_blank">You can get "Buddy Christ" here...</a>
WOoo! Have you ordered from these guys before? I want to make sure they are legit before I pay any cash.