I think HP should take a good look at Nokia's tacit admission that they are losing the smartphone race to iOS and Android (Stephen Elop's "burning platform"). if HP wants to beat both Apple and Google in the phone & tablet business, they should assess their competitive position. I mean, Microsoft hasn't won back their lost phone OS marketshare (but these are the Ballmer years, so that may not mean much), and Palm managed to squeak out a tiny slice against Apple, RIM, and all the other handset makers. What's so new and different about HP's webOS that would make me give a rip?
Thanks. That's a good read. I more or less came to the same conclusion: deep down inside, HP is a hardware company, and historically, they are nowhere near as "vertical" as Apple. Long term, they may divest webOS or let it die like so many other technologies.
As for the new tablet and phones, releasing a bunch of spec sheets and photos of exterior cases isn't anything special. I'm not lusting after Mhz or Ghz anymore, but in overall user experience.
OK, Let's play "Let's Pretend!"
Say that HP is on the wrong path with WebOS -- it is a dead end!
Say that HP realizes that it eventually will go the Android route!
Say that HP is smart and has been preserving their options -- and has a secret project going with the latest available Android release running on the TouchPad now -- and may have even cut a deal for prerelease versions of Honeycomb.
Say that all TouchPad apps have a corresponding Android implementation.
How does that change anything?
For an Android TouchPad, the questions remain:
-- when will it ship?
-- how much will it cost?
-- what is the battery life?
To that we need to add:
-- how does it compare to/differentiate from other announced Android Tablets, like the Xoom?
-- how does it integrate with enterprise IT requirements?
It may well be that the TouchPad eventually does replace WebOS -- but I see no advantage to anyone to change now.
I believe that HP might have better chances by licensing WebOS to, say, Nokia... but I don't think that will happen.
Here's what HP needs to do IMO:
0) Publicly announce all the specs, including Price, Availability, Battery by March 15, 2011
1) Bet the Farm on WebOS and the TouchPad for the rest of 2011.
2) Focus on the enterprise with seed units / developer assistance
3) Have a shipping product no later than May 1, 2011.
4) Price the WiFi TouchPad at $150 less than today's corresponding iPad models.
5) Hire developers to write/port specific key productivity apps compatible with MS Office
6) contract 3rd party developers to port major apps from iOS and Android
The objective is to be in the marketplace, ASAP!
FTW... let WebOS phones come out when ready!
If HP can't do that, why should anybody care about the TouchPad?
The phones look like a complete fail to me but the tablet looks interesting and (finally!) some real competition for Apple.
Why they would release only phones with little plastic keyboards and no touch-keyboard phones is just mystifying, as is the decision that we were all lacking a *smaller* phone than the Pre. Those things just make me go WTF?! but the tablet looks kind of nice.
One things seriously missing from the iPad is any kind of phone/tablet integration (or a decent email app but that's another story), and I've often wished for it when I'm travelling with both. Why should I have to either use iPads crappy email program or pull my phone out of my pocket every time it gets mail? I'm usually typing on the iPad when it happens and they are both within bluetooth range of each other (heck they are even in RFID range of each other), and are often sitting on the same network.
Exactly on all accounts.
The Pre phones look exactly like the Pre 2 that failed miserably...cheap and hard to use.
The touchpad is a complete copy of iPad 1 with a couple of geeky features sans Apps.
We have yet to see the real battery life etc. WebOs does look a lot more polished than honeycomb though.
HP has a tough path ahead of it, whatever the heck happens. They'll have to lean on their enterprise, laptop and netbook income for another few years. Still unbelievable how Apple caught everyone by surprise with the iPad, even with all the rumours going around for years and years.
Personally, I predict HP ditching WebOS by 2012 for Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
OK, Let's play "Let's Pretend!"
Say that HP is on the wrong path with WebOS -- it is a dead end!
Say that HP realizes that it eventually will go the Android route!
Say that HP is smart and has been preserving their options -- and has a secret project going with the latest available Android release running on the TouchPad now -- and may have even cut a deal for prerelease versions of Honeycomb.
Say that all TouchPad apps have a corresponding Android implementation.
How does that change anything?
For an Android TouchPad, the questions remain:
-- when will it ship?
-- how much will it cost?
-- what is the battery life?
To that we need to add:
-- how does it compare to/differentiate from other announced Android Tablets, like the Xoom?
-- how does it integrate with enterprise IT requirements?
It may well be that the TouchPad eventually does replace WebOS -- but I see no advantage to anyone to change now.
I believe that HP might have better chances by licensing WebOS to, say, Nokia... but I don't think that will happen.
Here's what HP needs to do IMO:
0) Publicly announce all the specs, including Price, Availability, Battery by March 15, 2011
1) Bet the Farm on WebOS and the TouchPad for the rest of 2011.
2) Focus on the enterprise with seed units / developer assistance
3) Have a shipping product no later than May 1, 2011.
4) Price the WiFi TouchPad at $150 less than today's corresponding iPad models.
5) Hire developers to write/port specific key productivity apps compatible with MS Office
6) contract 3rd party developers to port major apps from iOS and Android
The objective is to be in the marketplace, ASAP!
FTW... let WebOS phones come out when ready!
If HP can't do that, why should anybody care about the TouchPad?
Touch pad is really good actually. Good on hp for not going the android route. Sure pre3 is still a Pre, but it's early and I am sure they will improve a lot if initial sales don't disappoint.
For phones they need to give an option of having an on screen keyboard. Its harder for me to type on a physical one at this point. (I doubt I would buy it ever, but for other people)
For tablets they really nailed it. Os is very solid, card view as the desktop is a good idea. They have solid partnerships with amazon for content. If they can get good apps on the platform as well that would be a real contender.
However the momentum is not on their side. Android and iOS are already in the hands of consumers and we all know how hard it is to switch platforms (in terms of software, setup etc). I wish palm the best, and I think hp made a good bet here.
I wasn't referring to Palm, the company. I was referring to Rubenstein's handling of the Pre.
I was a Palm developer for several years in the late 90's early 2000's. That company was run buy a bunch of monkeys. Palm had a huge (and loyal) developer base and they basically abandoned them and took the money and ran.
They burned a lot of developers and we're still bitter to this day. When the Pre was introduced, certain folks in management asked me to return to develop. I told those folks (friends for years) that I will never develop for them again, because even though the players have changed (Rubenstein), the corporate culture monkeys did not. After the Pre crashed-and-burned, again due to monkey-acts, those folks that tried to get me to come back to the platform had quit their jobs at Palm and told me afterwards that management hasn't changed at all and it was terrible working at Palm. Zero employee-morale.
The Pre actually had a shot. It was a long-shot, but they royally screwed it up and Rubenstein showed zero talent for taking the initiative. This is what I was referring to.
Palm was flatlining long before Rubenstein was around and thanks to him, he essentially was the final nail in Palm's coffin.
I obviously fail to understand what HP sees in Rubenstein's ability. I guess he must have sweet-talked them by playing his "I used to work at Apple" card.
I would actually like to see WebOS succeed. I think it's a better, more polished system than Android will ever be. But it still needs some serious attention if it expects to go up against iOS.
Well, I still think it's unfair to judge Rubenstein's abilities based on his time at Palm before the HP buyout. For one thing, the "monkeys" were still in charge for most of that time and there was little or no money or time available to actually develop the Pre and webOS; and a good part of why it failed to attract developers was exactly what you describe above. But, he did do some good work at Apple, and webOS is probably the 2nd best mobile OS out there. Maybe even if he isn't CEO material, he might do good stuff again at HP in a lesser role and with adequate resources.
EDIT: webOS may still have trouble attracting developers though, because there is justifiably a lot of bad feeling with former Palm developers.
However, it's not going to be out until the summer and important details such as pricing and battery life are unknown. And by that time, the iPad2 will of course be out. Apple had better make the iPad2 killer! Not just a minor upgrade to the iPad1, but significantly better. Then, that will be all she wrote, game over.
It's really funny to me see people here constantly make references to the iPad 2. To use 2 terms that are often used on this forum for non-Apple products:
1) The iPad 2 is vaporware. Besides rumors, there is no evidence an iPad 2 exists or is even in development. Apple hasn't announced an iPad 2 and there aren't even any upcoming Apple events announced that could lend evidence to the announcement of the iPad 2. Therefore, there clearly is no ship date for the iPad 2, not even a vague "Summer 2011" date.
2) Talking about the iPad 2 in reference to Android tablets with 3.0 or the Touchpad is just FUD. At least many of these products have announced hardware specs and at least rough time frames for release dates. The iPad 2 doesn't exist in any meaningful way. All the specs being batted around for it are just rumor and speculation.
In their defence, I do know handful of business users who still feel they could not do phone without physical keyboard. It always boils down to blind typing while walking/driving/whatever.
Some of them I know have tried various Androids and iPhone, and some of them actually have second phone (iPhone or Android) and use them as personal devices, for media, music, games on the go... but still stick to BBs and Nokias for business.
I'd like to see keyboardless webOS phone, but I believe there's still market for keyboards. Does new Pre have virtual keyboard as well? Having full size screen (vs. BBs half size screens) and both physical and virtual keyboard could be handy for some users.
But that's exactly what I was saying (perhaps I didn't say it too well!)..... HP should have produced a touch+pullout keyboard version, and be design-consistent with their phones.
It's really funny to me see people here constantly make references to the iPad 2. To use 2 terms that are often used on this forum for non-Apple products:
1) The iPad 2 is vaporware. Besides rumors, there is no evidence an iPad 2 exists or is even in development. Apple hasn't announced an iPad 2 and there aren't even any upcoming Apple events announced that could lend evidence to the announcement of the iPad 2. Therefore, there clearly is no ship date for the iPad 2, not even a vague "Summer 2011" date.
2) Talking about the iPad 2 in reference to Android tablets with 3.0 or the Touchpad is just FUD. At least many of these products have announced hardware specs and at least rough time frames for release dates. The iPad 2 doesn't exist in any meaningful way. All the specs being batted around for it are just rumor and speculation.
Yeah, all those competitor products exist, and are available for sale.
One thing I hate is the way my iPhone and iPad will tell me they've both received the same email one after the other. HP got that aspect right. But synergy is important in that HP haven't come out with a nice enough phone to pair with the tablet. Plus their ecosystem has a way to go before it can match Apple's. I'd like to see more content become available on their device because that will seal the deal.
Comments
These people who insult should be banned, instead I am being ignored or belittled.
If these moderators cannot do their job properly, I think they should step down.
Come one ban me, this will be just like censorship, because you don't like criticism right.
I think HP should take a good look at Nokia's tacit admission that they are losing the smartphone race to iOS and Android (Stephen Elop's "burning platform"). if HP wants to beat both Apple and Google in the phone & tablet business, they should assess their competitive position. I mean, Microsoft hasn't won back their lost phone OS marketshare (but these are the Ballmer years, so that may not mean much), and Palm managed to squeak out a tiny slice against Apple, RIM, and all the other handset makers. What's so new and different about HP's webOS that would make me give a rip?
Here's an article that responds to that thought:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/...os-android-417
Thanks. That's a good read. I more or less came to the same conclusion: deep down inside, HP is a hardware company, and historically, they are nowhere near as "vertical" as Apple. Long term, they may divest webOS or let it die like so many other technologies.
As for the new tablet and phones, releasing a bunch of spec sheets and photos of exterior cases isn't anything special. I'm not lusting after Mhz or Ghz anymore, but in overall user experience.
OK, Let's play "Let's Pretend!"
Say that HP is on the wrong path with WebOS -- it is a dead end!
Say that HP realizes that it eventually will go the Android route!
Say that HP is smart and has been preserving their options -- and has a secret project going with the latest available Android release running on the TouchPad now -- and may have even cut a deal for prerelease versions of Honeycomb.
Say that all TouchPad apps have a corresponding Android implementation.
How does that change anything?
For an Android TouchPad, the questions remain:
-- when will it ship?
-- how much will it cost?
-- what is the battery life?
To that we need to add:
-- how does it compare to/differentiate from other announced Android Tablets, like the Xoom?
-- how does it integrate with enterprise IT requirements?
It may well be that the TouchPad eventually does replace WebOS -- but I see no advantage to anyone to change now.
I believe that HP might have better chances by licensing WebOS to, say, Nokia... but I don't think that will happen.
Here's what HP needs to do IMO:
0) Publicly announce all the specs, including Price, Availability, Battery by March 15, 2011
1) Bet the Farm on WebOS and the TouchPad for the rest of 2011.
2) Focus on the enterprise with seed units / developer assistance
3) Have a shipping product no later than May 1, 2011.
4) Price the WiFi TouchPad at $150 less than today's corresponding iPad models.
5) Hire developers to write/port specific key productivity apps compatible with MS Office
6) contract 3rd party developers to port major apps from iOS and Android
The objective is to be in the marketplace, ASAP!
FTW... let WebOS phones come out when ready!
If HP can't do that, why should anybody care about the TouchPad?
The phones look like a complete fail to me but the tablet looks interesting and (finally!) some real competition for Apple.
Why they would release only phones with little plastic keyboards and no touch-keyboard phones is just mystifying, as is the decision that we were all lacking a *smaller* phone than the Pre. Those things just make me go WTF?! but the tablet looks kind of nice.
One things seriously missing from the iPad is any kind of phone/tablet integration (or a decent email app but that's another story), and I've often wished for it when I'm travelling with both. Why should I have to either use iPads crappy email program or pull my phone out of my pocket every time it gets mail? I'm usually typing on the iPad when it happens and they are both within bluetooth range of each other (heck they are even in RFID range of each other), and are often sitting on the same network.
Exactly on all accounts.
The Pre phones look exactly like the Pre 2 that failed miserably...cheap and hard to use.
The touchpad is a complete copy of iPad 1 with a couple of geeky features sans Apps.
We have yet to see the real battery life etc. WebOs does look a lot more polished than honeycomb though.
Personally, I predict HP ditching WebOS by 2012 for Android.
OK, Let's play "Let's Pretend!"
Say that HP is on the wrong path with WebOS -- it is a dead end!
Say that HP realizes that it eventually will go the Android route!
Say that HP is smart and has been preserving their options -- and has a secret project going with the latest available Android release running on the TouchPad now -- and may have even cut a deal for prerelease versions of Honeycomb.
Say that all TouchPad apps have a corresponding Android implementation.
How does that change anything?
For an Android TouchPad, the questions remain:
-- when will it ship?
-- how much will it cost?
-- what is the battery life?
To that we need to add:
-- how does it compare to/differentiate from other announced Android Tablets, like the Xoom?
-- how does it integrate with enterprise IT requirements?
It may well be that the TouchPad eventually does replace WebOS -- but I see no advantage to anyone to change now.
I believe that HP might have better chances by licensing WebOS to, say, Nokia... but I don't think that will happen.
Here's what HP needs to do IMO:
0) Publicly announce all the specs, including Price, Availability, Battery by March 15, 2011
1) Bet the Farm on WebOS and the TouchPad for the rest of 2011.
2) Focus on the enterprise with seed units / developer assistance
3) Have a shipping product no later than May 1, 2011.
4) Price the WiFi TouchPad at $150 less than today's corresponding iPad models.
5) Hire developers to write/port specific key productivity apps compatible with MS Office
6) contract 3rd party developers to port major apps from iOS and Android
The objective is to be in the marketplace, ASAP!
FTW... let WebOS phones come out when ready!
If HP can't do that, why should anybody care about the TouchPad?
For phones they need to give an option of having an on screen keyboard. Its harder for me to type on a physical one at this point. (I doubt I would buy it ever, but for other people)
For tablets they really nailed it. Os is very solid, card view as the desktop is a good idea. They have solid partnerships with amazon for content. If they can get good apps on the platform as well that would be a real contender.
However the momentum is not on their side. Android and iOS are already in the hands of consumers and we all know how hard it is to switch platforms (in terms of software, setup etc). I wish palm the best, and I think hp made a good bet here.
I wasn't referring to Palm, the company. I was referring to Rubenstein's handling of the Pre.
I was a Palm developer for several years in the late 90's early 2000's. That company was run buy a bunch of monkeys. Palm had a huge (and loyal) developer base and they basically abandoned them and took the money and ran.
They burned a lot of developers and we're still bitter to this day. When the Pre was introduced, certain folks in management asked me to return to develop. I told those folks (friends for years) that I will never develop for them again, because even though the players have changed (Rubenstein), the corporate culture monkeys did not. After the Pre crashed-and-burned, again due to monkey-acts, those folks that tried to get me to come back to the platform had quit their jobs at Palm and told me afterwards that management hasn't changed at all and it was terrible working at Palm. Zero employee-morale.
The Pre actually had a shot. It was a long-shot, but they royally screwed it up and Rubenstein showed zero talent for taking the initiative. This is what I was referring to.
Palm was flatlining long before Rubenstein was around and thanks to him, he essentially was the final nail in Palm's coffin.
I obviously fail to understand what HP sees in Rubenstein's ability. I guess he must have sweet-talked them by playing his "I used to work at Apple" card.
I would actually like to see WebOS succeed. I think it's a better, more polished system than Android will ever be. But it still needs some serious attention if it expects to go up against iOS.
Well, I still think it's unfair to judge Rubenstein's abilities based on his time at Palm before the HP buyout. For one thing, the "monkeys" were still in charge for most of that time and there was little or no money or time available to actually develop the Pre and webOS; and a good part of why it failed to attract developers was exactly what you describe above. But, he did do some good work at Apple, and webOS is probably the 2nd best mobile OS out there. Maybe even if he isn't CEO material, he might do good stuff again at HP in a lesser role and with adequate resources.
EDIT: webOS may still have trouble attracting developers though, because there is justifiably a lot of bad feeling with former Palm developers.
However, it's not going to be out until the summer and important details such as pricing and battery life are unknown. And by that time, the iPad2 will of course be out. Apple had better make the iPad2 killer! Not just a minor upgrade to the iPad1, but significantly better. Then, that will be all she wrote, game over.
It's really funny to me see people here constantly make references to the iPad 2. To use 2 terms that are often used on this forum for non-Apple products:
1) The iPad 2 is vaporware. Besides rumors, there is no evidence an iPad 2 exists or is even in development. Apple hasn't announced an iPad 2 and there aren't even any upcoming Apple events announced that could lend evidence to the announcement of the iPad 2. Therefore, there clearly is no ship date for the iPad 2, not even a vague "Summer 2011" date.
2) Talking about the iPad 2 in reference to Android tablets with 3.0 or the Touchpad is just FUD. At least many of these products have announced hardware specs and at least rough time frames for release dates. The iPad 2 doesn't exist in any meaningful way. All the specs being batted around for it are just rumor and speculation.
In their defence, I do know handful of business users who still feel they could not do phone without physical keyboard. It always boils down to blind typing while walking/driving/whatever.
Some of them I know have tried various Androids and iPhone, and some of them actually have second phone (iPhone or Android) and use them as personal devices, for media, music, games on the go... but still stick to BBs and Nokias for business.
I'd like to see keyboardless webOS phone, but I believe there's still market for keyboards. Does new Pre have virtual keyboard as well? Having full size screen (vs. BBs half size screens) and both physical and virtual keyboard could be handy for some users.
But that's exactly what I was saying (perhaps I didn't say it too well!)..... HP should have produced a touch+pullout keyboard version, and be design-consistent with their phones.
It's really funny to me see people here constantly make references to the iPad 2. To use 2 terms that are often used on this forum for non-Apple products:
1) The iPad 2 is vaporware. Besides rumors, there is no evidence an iPad 2 exists or is even in development. Apple hasn't announced an iPad 2 and there aren't even any upcoming Apple events announced that could lend evidence to the announcement of the iPad 2. Therefore, there clearly is no ship date for the iPad 2, not even a vague "Summer 2011" date.
2) Talking about the iPad 2 in reference to Android tablets with 3.0 or the Touchpad is just FUD. At least many of these products have announced hardware specs and at least rough time frames for release dates. The iPad 2 doesn't exist in any meaningful way. All the specs being batted around for it are just rumor and speculation.
Yeah, all those competitor products exist, and are available for sale.
I have been insulted on this site and the moderators don't give a stuff.
Welcome to the Internet.
When we were an Apple reseller in 1978-1989' Apple offered SPIFs -- as did most of the hardware and software mfgrs.
Back then is one thing, it's a whole different ball game in the Jobs II era...
I don't know. Over 300 million computers sold last year.
How many billions of people are there on this planet? 300 million is a drop in the bucket for the potential market.
The iPad 2 is vaporware. Besides rumors, there is no evidence an iPad 2 exists or is even in development.
What Apple has and many of it's so called "competitors" don't is a little thing called a track record.
We can speculate as to the timing, but there will be an iPad 2 as surely as the sun will come up tomorrow