I think that would depend a lot on the "knowledgable salesperson". At Best Buy, though, they might well steer you to the HP, unless they were making more money off one of the others or your salesperson was a fan of iOS or Android.
I'm trying to make an assumption that the salesperson is being neutral for the point of the discussion, and spelling out all of what each offers, the ecosystem around them, both manufacturer generated, and third party, all the major features and what you would need to use them.
I believe that this is the best non Apple tablet I've seen. Really! I just don't see a reason for large numbers of people to go out and buy it.
If you went into a store that had an iPad, a Honeycomb Android tablet, a non Honeycomb phone/tablet thing, and a WebOS tablet, and you didn't know anything about any of them, so you asked the knowledgable salesperson to explain them all, which would you buy, in what order of preference (seeing as you do know)?
I think we agree on this. My main point is only that this tablet seems like it meets the minimum bar of something that I might use.
That being said, I wouldn't give up my iPad for a WebOS tablet right now, I actually like the screens of icons a little more than I like WebOS's "card metaphor." So in your experiment, I would pick the iPad. I would use WebOS, but only if there was no such thing as an iPad and iOS.
I wouldn't consider an Android *anything* as I think it's just junk (I'm not saying that to be mean, I actually have tried it a bit and think it's pretty much a joke compared to iOS). Mainly this is because the experience of using Android is so astoundingly different (in a very bad way), from the way it's generally described by the acolytes. It all sounds equal to iOS until you actually have a device in your hand and see what absolute crap it is.
The easiest example is that I currently do a lot of writing on my iPad and as hard as it is sometimes to get Pages to cooperate, I can't imagine trying to do the same with some web widgetty thing or using Google docs.
How productive can a WebOS tablet really be if it has no native word processor or spreadsheet?
About a year ago (in the pre-iPad era) I thought Apple needed to build-in cable-less charging into the just announced iPad. Was I wrong!! The 10 hour life is still kind of a "killer app" for me.
I could not find any mentioning of battery life for the TouchPad. Did I miss that or did HP leave that out - intentionally? Makes you appreciate that Apple always tells us the battery life for all of their mobile devices - right at their introduction.
The one's that I know would never want to do more. But, the important point in selling to them is that they don't think they ever want to do more, they don't even know what more is, or want to know. They just want it to be simple so they can do it and get rid of the "doorstop" PC they are afraid to use or can't figure out.
And how many people who do want a computer are like that? Tens of thousands, hundreds, millions, tens of millions? I doubt it's tens of millions. It might be in the low millions. But not all of those people will be buying this at once. It would take time. so how long would that be? Enough to sell enough every year to turn a profit?
I'll even give an example back to you on this so maybe you can see what I mean....
My wife for example, dislikes computers, she doesn't understand them, and much more importantly and to the point of the discussion, doesn't want to. Even with all the frustration she felt towards computers, you'd have no idea who'd she blame, Dell, HP, windows, all the same from her POV.
She never in a million years would have ponied up $1200 for a macbook like we did if I (or someone like me) didn't force that as our computer purchase.
Results? She absolutely loves her mac. She'll never buy a non-mac. She still doesn't like computers, but she understands and recognizes the differences and simplicity vs her previous computers.
So yes, you are right in that the mac already accomplishes much of what a consumer would want in a computing experience IMO.
BUT, at those price point and without the knowledge, it simply doesn't matter. The mac is not cheap enough and until you own one you probably couldn't understand that it could make life easier and pay for itself in that way.
That's what I mean by the mac not belonging in the discussion for most intents and purposes.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree there there are a lot of people who won't plunk down for a Mac. But they start at $999, so that's not as bad. I still don't believe that this is going to generate a lot of sales. It will certainly generate a fair bit, but will that be enough? I just don't think so. It's a risky buy for people because it's a new OS in the computing space. It will have no track record. And these days, that's dangerous. People think of Windows and OS X as desktop OS's. Can this sneak in? Can Chrome sneak in, because that's what this will be competing against as well. Both have similar objectives.
I think we agree on this. My main point is only that this tablet seems like it meets the minimum bar of something that I might use.
That being said, I wouldn't give up my iPad for a WebOS tablet right now, I actually like the screens of icons a little more than I like WebOS's "card metaphor." So in your experiment, I would pick the iPad. I would use WebOS, but only if there was no such thing as an iPad and iOS.
I wouldn't consider an Android *anything* as I think it's just junk (I'm not saying that to be mean, I actually have tried it a bit and think it's pretty much a joke compared to iOS). Mainly this is because the experience of using Android is so astoundingly different (in a very bad way), from the way it's generally described by the acolytes. It all sounds equal to iOS until you actually have a device in your hand and see what absolute crap it is.
The easiest example is that I currently do a lot of writing on my iPad and as hard as it is sometimes to get Pages to cooperate, I can't imagine trying to do the same with some web widgetty thing or using Google docs.
How productive can a WebOS tablet really be if it has no native word processor or spreadsheet?
I don't think it's terribly productive. Even if you look at the apps for the phones, you will see an amazing amount of junk. I mean real junk. Even other WebOS developers complain about the amount of junk there is. I'm not so sure this is going to change without Hp doing a major overhaul of the store and the way apps get there. They seem to be working with, and possibly paying, a few major companies to come out with some basic apps, games, magazines and such so there will be something to point to when these things come out.
But whether there will be productivity apps the way there are for the iPhone and iPad remains to be seen, because right now, what little there is, is garbage.
About a year ago (in the pre-iPad era) I thought Apple needed to build-in cable-less charging into the just announced iPad. Was I wrong!! The 10 hour life is still kind of a "killer app" for me.
I could not find any mentioning of battery life for the TouchPad. Did I miss that or did HP leave that out - intentionally? Makes you appreciate that Apple always tells us the battery life for all of their mobile devices - right at their introduction.
We've got perhaps five to eight months before these come out, so they must be working on optimizing the battery life. It's likely that while they computed that life from known conditions and component selection, they still don't have it down. It's dependent on how well they manage it, and whether there are any gotcha's in the software or hardware.
For example, RIM has stated that 8 hours is a goal for the Playbook, but beta testers have reported about 4+ hours. That's way off. Will they get to eight hours? Good question. if they don't, they will do the cheat that most manufacturers do; they will say "up to eight hours", which means six, usually.
Are you kidding, with the exception of the pull out keyboard, both products are almost exact copies of Apple. HP probably thinks it has the patents to keep Apple from filing suit.
Seriously though, HP can't come up with its own design? Also, in the past webos had decent reviews, but it looks stale.
With that said, if the choice was between Android and a HP webos device, I'd go with HP.
I didn't like the full screen app switching using the new gestures. Unless you move really fast, your scrolling will be interrupted or slowed as some apps start loading. I think Apple should do this for the new gesture:
1- Swipe up (or double click home button) will bring background apps in carousel layout.
2- The carousel shows preview image of the app from the last view.
3- Scroll as usual with one finger.
4- Small x shows at the corner where you can terminate and app.
The visual effects (carousel) might work great with a new dual core iPad but might not work as smooth with the existing iPad.
That's an excellent idea!
Actually, the carousel performance is just fine on the current iPad!
CoverFlow would provide the carousel and would work very well as the task switcher (as you described above)!
I'll try and find a video that is OK to show & post it later.
I did some experimentation using a CoverFlow like construct to create a hierarchical drill-down to music/Videos...
Think:
L1 -- Artist Cover - with bio on the back
L2 -- Album Cover - With list of songs/videos on the back
Not everyone wants to buy a cheap computer, even if all they want to do is browse the web, do e-mail, play simple games, etc. Don't forget that Apple's Mac sales are increasing at 24% a year when PC sales are increasingly stagnant. Last quarter, in the US, Pc sales were down by 6.6% while Mac sales were up almost 18%.
In addition, Lion will be adding a number of features from IOS. We've already got an App Store. We'll be getting a desktop option that will simplify it further, with a grid for programs, or apps, whatever we'll be calling this stuff from now on.
No doubt, we'll see many more features than the few we were shown already. This will be out this summer. We could see a less expensive Mac for this purpose. Who knows?
Apple could be very competitive in this space, and I think that it's what Hp is thinking about with these computers; a preemptive strike that we don't know the arrival date of, though that sounds odd.
I think people who dislike computers generally wont spend more than they have to on them, likewise for any other product they feel that way about but need....
I dont disagree with your possibility of a cheaper mac and HP's thinking, but at the same time its hard to see apple lowering the perceived value of the mac, but certainly possible, but I kind of feel they already may have that in the ipad.
Also agree the mac app store is huge in this regard, as far as simplifying the experience for people.
From time to time we see isolated market segments for specific quarters that look especially favorable, but looking at the long view it seems hard to confidently extrapolate that into a sustainable trend:
We're in the middle of the worst recession since The Great Depression, yet Apple exploded in sales of their PC hardware, while the rest of the industry was almost completely flat.
You can toss out your historic trends.
Apple's multi-tier solution of end-to-end is redefining the entire Industry.
From time to time we see isolated market segments for specific quarters that look especially favorable, but looking at the long view it seems hard to confidently extrapolate that into a sustainable trend:
I think people who dislike computers generally wont spend more than they have to on them, likewise for any other product they feel that way about but need....
I dont disagree with your possibility of a cheaper mac and HP's thinking, but at the same time its hard to see apple lowering the perceived value of the mac, but certainly possible, but I kind of feel they already may have that in the ipad.
Also agree the mac app store is huge in this regard, as far as simplifying the experience for people.
This is one of those things that we can argue about until we're blue in the face, or our fingernails fall off from all the typing we're doing.
It will play out. Until all this stuff is actually out for a time, we're just talking.
My GF is EXACTLY the same way, Jcoz. She hates computers, tech, smart phones, etc., but loves our macs with no wires, wireless printing, ATV, etc. She has to work with PC's at work and detests them!
I hope this little story comes across as funny...we got a new fax machine a few years back and she was trying to fax a document. She kept pressing buttons and keying the number and kept getting "beeped" at. Finally in utter frustration she put her hands behind her back, leaned over, got really close to the machine and yelled, "FAX!" It's really the only time I've ever heard her raise her voice!
Anyway, perhaps you had to be there. At 5'2" she looks really cute bent over and all!
No you dont have to be there, at least for me! lol, it is a funny story, especially since you are right in that they are exactly the same in that respect (my wife is also 5'2, for added humor, lol)...and the thing is, my wife is 24! its not like shes from a generation that didn't have computers for most of their lives....
I'm absolutely not trying to be sexist, but at the same time I don't think it would be unfair for me to say that I believe women do make up a large chunk of the audience I'm speaking of. In my wifes case, its not an intelligence issue, its an interest issue. She's just not interested in tech. She has an idea of what she wants/needs to do and just want something that does it without her getting frustrated to tears over it.
We're in the middle of the worst recession since The Great Depression, yet Apple exploded in sales of their PC hardware, while the rest of the industry was almost completely flat.
You can toss out your historic trends.
Apple's multi-tier solution of end-to-end is redefining the entire Industry.
Excellent comment, mdriftmeyer. I had forgotten about that. I remember Stevo saying a while back that Apple does not layoff people in a downturn because they have spent a lot of time and money to get them in the first place. In a downturn Apple redoubles its R&D so it is ready and well positioned for the next upswing. This time, as you say, they did quite well in the greatest recession since the great depression. Just good business. I wish other companies were this fwd thinking.
This is one of those things that we can argue about until we're blue in the face, or our fingernails fall off from all the typing we're doing.
It will play out. Until all this stuff is actually out for a time, we're just talking.
I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.
I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.
I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....
I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.
The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.
But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.
Comments
Maybe they should talk to Oracle about that first.
Mmmm...
Wouldn't it be interesting if HP and RIM both licensed the ability, from Oracle, to use Davlik on their devices -- something about poetic justice.
I think that would depend a lot on the "knowledgable salesperson". At Best Buy, though, they might well steer you to the HP, unless they were making more money off one of the others or your salesperson was a fan of iOS or Android.
I'm trying to make an assumption that the salesperson is being neutral for the point of the discussion, and spelling out all of what each offers, the ecosystem around them, both manufacturer generated, and third party, all the major features and what you would need to use them.
I believe that this is the best non Apple tablet I've seen. Really! I just don't see a reason for large numbers of people to go out and buy it.
If you went into a store that had an iPad, a Honeycomb Android tablet, a non Honeycomb phone/tablet thing, and a WebOS tablet, and you didn't know anything about any of them, so you asked the knowledgable salesperson to explain them all, which would you buy, in what order of preference (seeing as you do know)?
I think we agree on this. My main point is only that this tablet seems like it meets the minimum bar of something that I might use.
That being said, I wouldn't give up my iPad for a WebOS tablet right now, I actually like the screens of icons a little more than I like WebOS's "card metaphor." So in your experiment, I would pick the iPad. I would use WebOS, but only if there was no such thing as an iPad and iOS.
I wouldn't consider an Android *anything* as I think it's just junk (I'm not saying that to be mean, I actually have tried it a bit and think it's pretty much a joke compared to iOS). Mainly this is because the experience of using Android is so astoundingly different (in a very bad way), from the way it's generally described by the acolytes. It all sounds equal to iOS until you actually have a device in your hand and see what absolute crap it is.
The easiest example is that I currently do a lot of writing on my iPad and as hard as it is sometimes to get Pages to cooperate, I can't imagine trying to do the same with some web widgetty thing or using Google docs.
How productive can a WebOS tablet really be if it has no native word processor or spreadsheet?
I could not find any mentioning of battery life for the TouchPad. Did I miss that or did HP leave that out - intentionally? Makes you appreciate that Apple always tells us the battery life for all of their mobile devices - right at their introduction.
The one's that I know would never want to do more. But, the important point in selling to them is that they don't think they ever want to do more, they don't even know what more is, or want to know. They just want it to be simple so they can do it and get rid of the "doorstop" PC they are afraid to use or can't figure out.
And how many people who do want a computer are like that? Tens of thousands, hundreds, millions, tens of millions? I doubt it's tens of millions. It might be in the low millions. But not all of those people will be buying this at once. It would take time. so how long would that be? Enough to sell enough every year to turn a profit?
I'll even give an example back to you on this so maybe you can see what I mean....
My wife for example, dislikes computers, she doesn't understand them, and much more importantly and to the point of the discussion, doesn't want to. Even with all the frustration she felt towards computers, you'd have no idea who'd she blame, Dell, HP, windows, all the same from her POV.
She never in a million years would have ponied up $1200 for a macbook like we did if I (or someone like me) didn't force that as our computer purchase.
Results? She absolutely loves her mac. She'll never buy a non-mac. She still doesn't like computers, but she understands and recognizes the differences and simplicity vs her previous computers.
So yes, you are right in that the mac already accomplishes much of what a consumer would want in a computing experience IMO.
BUT, at those price point and without the knowledge, it simply doesn't matter. The mac is not cheap enough and until you own one you probably couldn't understand that it could make life easier and pay for itself in that way.
That's what I mean by the mac not belonging in the discussion for most intents and purposes.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree there there are a lot of people who won't plunk down for a Mac. But they start at $999, so that's not as bad. I still don't believe that this is going to generate a lot of sales. It will certainly generate a fair bit, but will that be enough? I just don't think so. It's a risky buy for people because it's a new OS in the computing space. It will have no track record. And these days, that's dangerous. People think of Windows and OS X as desktop OS's. Can this sneak in? Can Chrome sneak in, because that's what this will be competing against as well. Both have similar objectives.
I think we agree on this. My main point is only that this tablet seems like it meets the minimum bar of something that I might use.
That being said, I wouldn't give up my iPad for a WebOS tablet right now, I actually like the screens of icons a little more than I like WebOS's "card metaphor." So in your experiment, I would pick the iPad. I would use WebOS, but only if there was no such thing as an iPad and iOS.
I wouldn't consider an Android *anything* as I think it's just junk (I'm not saying that to be mean, I actually have tried it a bit and think it's pretty much a joke compared to iOS). Mainly this is because the experience of using Android is so astoundingly different (in a very bad way), from the way it's generally described by the acolytes. It all sounds equal to iOS until you actually have a device in your hand and see what absolute crap it is.
The easiest example is that I currently do a lot of writing on my iPad and as hard as it is sometimes to get Pages to cooperate, I can't imagine trying to do the same with some web widgetty thing or using Google docs.
How productive can a WebOS tablet really be if it has no native word processor or spreadsheet?
I don't think it's terribly productive. Even if you look at the apps for the phones, you will see an amazing amount of junk. I mean real junk. Even other WebOS developers complain about the amount of junk there is. I'm not so sure this is going to change without Hp doing a major overhaul of the store and the way apps get there. They seem to be working with, and possibly paying, a few major companies to come out with some basic apps, games, magazines and such so there will be something to point to when these things come out.
But whether there will be productivity apps the way there are for the iPhone and iPad remains to be seen, because right now, what little there is, is garbage.
About a year ago (in the pre-iPad era) I thought Apple needed to build-in cable-less charging into the just announced iPad. Was I wrong!! The 10 hour life is still kind of a "killer app" for me.
I could not find any mentioning of battery life for the TouchPad. Did I miss that or did HP leave that out - intentionally? Makes you appreciate that Apple always tells us the battery life for all of their mobile devices - right at their introduction.
We've got perhaps five to eight months before these come out, so they must be working on optimizing the battery life. It's likely that while they computed that life from known conditions and component selection, they still don't have it down. It's dependent on how well they manage it, and whether there are any gotcha's in the software or hardware.
For example, RIM has stated that 8 hours is a goal for the Playbook, but beta testers have reported about 4+ hours. That's way off. Will they get to eight hours? Good question. if they don't, they will do the cheat that most manufacturers do; they will say "up to eight hours", which means six, usually.
Seriously though, HP can't come up with its own design? Also, in the past webos had decent reviews, but it looks stale.
With that said, if the choice was between Android and a HP webos device, I'd go with HP.
I didn't like the full screen app switching using the new gestures. Unless you move really fast, your scrolling will be interrupted or slowed as some apps start loading. I think Apple should do this for the new gesture:
1- Swipe up (or double click home button) will bring background apps in carousel layout.
2- The carousel shows preview image of the app from the last view.
3- Scroll as usual with one finger.
4- Small x shows at the corner where you can terminate and app.
The visual effects (carousel) might work great with a new dual core iPad but might not work as smooth with the existing iPad.
That's an excellent idea!
Actually, the carousel performance is just fine on the current iPad!
CoverFlow would provide the carousel and would work very well as the task switcher (as you described above)!
I'll try and find a video that is OK to show & post it later.
I did some experimentation using a CoverFlow like construct to create a hierarchical drill-down to music/Videos...
Think:
L1 -- Artist Cover - with bio on the back
L2 -- Album Cover - With list of songs/videos on the back
L3 -- Song/Video Cover - with lyrics on the back
I wanted to post the above link in response to no one in particular -- but to try to get an idea of how fast the Tablet market is moving.
In effect, the iPad is the Tablet Market!
The iPad certainly has its negatives -- but it is here, it is now, and it can do the job that needs to be done.
While many of us want a more perfect solution, in an iPad 2 or an iPad competitor...
There are lots of people who are just making do with the iPad.
By the time the troops are marshaled to defeat the iPad -- the war may well be over...
500 days of Summer -- are a long time
My personal ISWAG estimate is that Apple will sell 60 million iPads in calendar year 2011,
(My prediction of 10 million iPads in calendar year 2010 was low).
Not everyone wants to buy a cheap computer, even if all they want to do is browse the web, do e-mail, play simple games, etc. Don't forget that Apple's Mac sales are increasing at 24% a year when PC sales are increasingly stagnant. Last quarter, in the US, Pc sales were down by 6.6% while Mac sales were up almost 18%.
In addition, Lion will be adding a number of features from IOS. We've already got an App Store. We'll be getting a desktop option that will simplify it further, with a grid for programs, or apps, whatever we'll be calling this stuff from now on.
No doubt, we'll see many more features than the few we were shown already. This will be out this summer. We could see a less expensive Mac for this purpose. Who knows?
Apple could be very competitive in this space, and I think that it's what Hp is thinking about with these computers; a preemptive strike that we don't know the arrival date of, though that sounds odd.
I think people who dislike computers generally wont spend more than they have to on them, likewise for any other product they feel that way about but need....
I dont disagree with your possibility of a cheaper mac and HP's thinking, but at the same time its hard to see apple lowering the perceived value of the mac, but certainly possible, but I kind of feel they already may have that in the ipad.
Also agree the mac app store is huge in this regard, as far as simplifying the experience for people.
From time to time we see isolated market segments for specific quarters that look especially favorable, but looking at the long view it seems hard to confidently extrapolate that into a sustainable trend:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m...e.aspx?qprid=9
We're in the middle of the worst recession since The Great Depression, yet Apple exploded in sales of their PC hardware, while the rest of the industry was almost completely flat.
You can toss out your historic trends.
Apple's multi-tier solution of end-to-end is redefining the entire Industry.
From time to time we see isolated market segments for specific quarters that look especially favorable, but looking at the long view it seems hard to confidently extrapolate that into a sustainable trend:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m...e.aspx?qprid=9
The problem is that we really don't know what that web site is showing us.
http://ipadpilots.k12cloudlearning.com/
By the time the troops are marshaled to defeat the iPad -- the war may well be over...
500 days of Summer -- are a long time
My personal ISWAG estimate is that Apple will sell 60 million iPads in calendar year 2011,
(My prediction of 10 million iPads in calendar year 2010 was low).
Dick, I'm going to say, 61 million iPads in calendar year 2011!
Best
I think people who dislike computers generally wont spend more than they have to on them, likewise for any other product they feel that way about but need....
I dont disagree with your possibility of a cheaper mac and HP's thinking, but at the same time its hard to see apple lowering the perceived value of the mac, but certainly possible, but I kind of feel they already may have that in the ipad.
Also agree the mac app store is huge in this regard, as far as simplifying the experience for people.
This is one of those things that we can argue about until we're blue in the face, or our fingernails fall off from all the typing we're doing.
It will play out. Until all this stuff is actually out for a time, we're just talking.
My GF is EXACTLY the same way, Jcoz. She hates computers, tech, smart phones, etc., but loves our macs with no wires, wireless printing, ATV, etc. She has to work with PC's at work and detests them!
I hope this little story comes across as funny...we got a new fax machine a few years back and she was trying to fax a document. She kept pressing buttons and keying the number and kept getting "beeped" at. Finally in utter frustration she put her hands behind her back, leaned over, got really close to the machine and yelled, "FAX!" It's really the only time I've ever heard her raise her voice!
Anyway, perhaps you had to be there. At 5'2" she looks really cute bent over and all!
No you dont have to be there, at least for me! lol, it is a funny story, especially since you are right in that they are exactly the same in that respect (my wife is also 5'2, for added humor, lol)...and the thing is, my wife is 24! its not like shes from a generation that didn't have computers for most of their lives....
I'm absolutely not trying to be sexist, but at the same time I don't think it would be unfair for me to say that I believe women do make up a large chunk of the audience I'm speaking of. In my wifes case, its not an intelligence issue, its an interest issue. She's just not interested in tech. She has an idea of what she wants/needs to do and just want something that does it without her getting frustrated to tears over it.
We're in the middle of the worst recession since The Great Depression, yet Apple exploded in sales of their PC hardware, while the rest of the industry was almost completely flat.
You can toss out your historic trends.
Apple's multi-tier solution of end-to-end is redefining the entire Industry.
Excellent comment, mdriftmeyer. I had forgotten about that. I remember Stevo saying a while back that Apple does not layoff people in a downturn because they have spent a lot of time and money to get them in the first place. In a downturn Apple redoubles its R&D so it is ready and well positioned for the next upswing. This time, as you say, they did quite well in the greatest recession since the great depression. Just good business. I wish other companies were this fwd thinking.
Best
This is one of those things that we can argue about until we're blue in the face, or our fingernails fall off from all the typing we're doing.
It will play out. Until all this stuff is actually out for a time, we're just talking.
I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.
I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.
I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....
I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.
The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.
But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.