Nokia ditches Symbian, embraces Microsoft Windows Phone for new handsets

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  • Reply 81 of 266
    People seem to think that Android is the greatest thing since sliced bread when it bared existed on one carrier 2 years ago. When you look at the rate the market is growing, trying to predict the next 2 years is foolish.



    Nokia would have a much better relationship with Microsoft than being amongst the sea of OEMs using Android with Google. Plus, Microsoft has much more coherent control of Windows Phone 7 than Google does of Android (just see all the rogue crappy tablets revealed at CES before Honeycomb was announced).



    Lastly, Nokia needs to attempt to make major inroads into the North American high end market again. Continuing with Symbian is rather silly. Android has tons of OEMs already. With NA being Microsoft's home market, they can spent a lot of marketing money on showcasing quality Nokia hardware.
  • Reply 82 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    They killed Symbian not Meego so they could ship their Meego tablet whenever they want. Elop indicated that there would be a 2011 MeeGo product and it wouldn't be a smartphone.



    The next tablet is likely ARM based like the N900 with a 7" display running MeeGo sometime in mid 2011. Not 18 months from now.



    That'll really piss Intel off.



    MeeGo is the child of Moblin and Maemo. It was the only mobile OS that would run on x86. Now that it's days look numbered, Intel are without a mobile platform for its Atom chips. At least until Windows 8 comes out.



    This really was bad news for Intel.
  • Reply 83 of 266
    Nokia didn't really have a choice.



    This is not about market share. Nokia has market-share coming out of their wazoo.

    This was about profitability.



    Every useful device starts out with healthy profits and then starts a decline towards being a commodity. Once it's a commodity, the profit margin is a 5% or so. The manufacturer can't add any more value. The value add is simply derived from putting the parts together.



    See Dell and HPs profits on Windows PCs.



    Nokia's mobile phones arrived at the commodity stop before anyone else. So where now?



    Android is a non-starter. because it too is headed for commodity status.

    Yes, it's cheap and massively popular. but phone manufacturers have simply no way to add value. The value add is being done by Google. And Google are not motivated to assist individual manufacturers. Any device HTC can ship, can be matched by Motorola. Or worse, matched by some no-name Chinese manufacturer.



    All such open platforms accelerate the decline to commodity.



    Window is also a licensed platform, but Nokia may be able to slow the decline, if Nokia can outperform the other Microsoft licensees.



    The move will allow Nokia to slash billions off its annual R&D budget. If that cash goes back on the balance sheet, it will allow several more years of survival. It might buy enough time for Nokia to properly develop its own technology.



    Is this going to work for Nokia? Actually I doubt it. I don't think there is the will to make this work. In all likelihood, their profit per handset will go up, but their sales will go down.



    Is this going to work for Microsoft? Actually I doubt if they care very much. But with Nokia's carrier relationship they will certainly be able to ship more WP7 handsets.



    C.
  • Reply 84 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post


    People seem to think that Android is the greatest thing since sliced bread when it bared existed on one carrier 2 years ago. When you look at the rate the market is growing, trying to predict the next 2 years is foolish.



    Nokia would have a much better relationship with Microsoft than being amongst the sea of OEMs using Android with Google. Plus, Microsoft has much more coherent control of Windows Phone 7 than Google does of Android (just see all the rogue crappy tablets revealed at CES before Honeycomb was announced).



    Lastly, Nokia needs to attempt to make major inroads into the North American high end market again. Continuing with Symbian is rather silly. Android has tons of OEMs already. With NA being Microsoft's home market, they can spent a lot of marketing money on showcasing quality Nokia hardware.



    Don't ever forget, though, that we are talking about Microsoft. I honestly believe that this deal will go nowhere for Nokia... not until Ballmer is removed... but with M$ still getting billions in profits I can't see that day coming any time soon. Ballmer is stuck in the past... imo the man doesn't have an innovative bone in his body. Nokia needs innovation in hardware and in software... and they need to be able to trust their partner to help them move forward. Do the words Microsoft and trust go together?



    [ on edit - as far as Google is concerned... give it another year or two and I believe that the fragmentation issue will actually begin to come back and bite the oem's who use the system... I also beleive that even if the Android system continues to grow it will be in name only... again (imo) the fragmentation issue will make each oem appear to have a separate system on their phones]
  • Reply 85 of 266
    jcozjcoz Posts: 251member
    IMO, this is a win on some scale for everyone except for Android.



    Microsoft benefits most, then Nokia, then Apple, RIM and HP indirectly.
  • Reply 86 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Nokia didn't really have a choice.



    This is not about market share. Nokia has market-share coming out of their wazoo.

    This was about profitability.



    Every useful device starts out with healthy profits and then starts a decline towards being a commodity. Once it's a commodity, the profit margin is a 5% or so. The manufacturer can't add any more value. The value add is simply derived from putting the parts together.



    See Dell and HPs profits on Windows PCs.



    Nokia's mobile phones arrived at the commodity stop before anyone else. So where now?



    Android is a non-starter. because it too is headed for commodity status.

    Yes, it's cheap and massively popular. but phone manufacturers have simply no way to add value. The value add is being done by Google. And Google are not motivated to assist individual manufacturers. Any device HTC can ship, can be matched by Motorola.



    All such open platforms accelerate the decline to commodity.



    Window is also a licensed platform, but Nokia may be able to slow the decline, if Nokia can outperform the other Microsoft licensees.



    The move will allow Nokia to slash billions off its annual R&D budget. If that cash goes back on the balance sheet, it will allow several more years of survival. It might buy enough time for Nokia to properly develop its own technology.



    Is this going to work for Nokia? Actually I doubt it. I don't think there is the will to make this work. In all likelihood, their profit per handset will go up, but their sales will go down.



    Is this going to work for Microsoft? Actually I doubt if they care very much. But with Nokia's carrier relationship they will certainly be able to ship more WP7 handsets.



    C.



    MS will buy Nokia eventually.



    They need to control the ecosystem and the way to do it is to control all the steps.



    Trying to replicate the pc model with smart phones is what got MS in the position they are in now. They seem to realize that a new model is needed.
  • Reply 87 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    This isn't true. Nokia will have direct input into WP. MS will tailor WP to Nokia's line of phones.



    Wow, so that is even worse. A custom non compatible version of Windows Phone OS.



    Outsourcing the most critical part of your core business, to a competitor no less, is an absolutely brilliant decision.
  • Reply 88 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    Wow, so that is even worse. A custom non compatible version of Windows Phone OS.



    Outsourcing the most critical part of your core business, to a competitor no less, is an absolutely brilliant decision.



    The world worst CEO (but best dancing monkey, though) joins an ex-employee of his to make their M$ shares more valuable through the sacrifice of a finnish company.

    Just joking, it's illegal
  • Reply 89 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    MS will buy Nokia eventually.



    They need to control the ecosystem and the way to do it is to control all the steps.



    Trying to replicate the pc model with smart phones is what got MS in the position they are in now. They seem to realize that a new model is needed.



    Apple has always said that if you are serious about making software, you need to make your own hardware. Developing the two together gives much more opportunity for adding value.



    After their experience with Windows PCs, HP seems like a convert to this point of view. But in their case they are brewing their own software.



    I guess MS could buy Nokia and get into hardware.



    I am just frightened that the offspring of two such engineering-led companies will be horrible looking babies.



    C.
  • Reply 90 of 266
    Nokia's assets:

    -Symbian, an old but solid OS that requires an UI overhaul

    -Meego, a good OS that's almost ready for prime time

    -an impressive reputation for amazing device lifetime and solidity



    What works in the middle of the Sahara? 70 years old Jeeps and 15 years old Nokias...



    Let's have fun, and trash the three assets, it will probably yield interesting results...



    I think I'm fit to be CEO for a major company, looks like the job's easy enough
  • Reply 91 of 266
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    One important thing you have to factor. Even in its current decline Nokia still sells as many phones as everyone else combined.



    If they can make this work. WP would actually be the number one OS in the world.



    Android is quickly going commodity. Android manufacturers are eventually going to either consolidate or run each other out of business.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post
    1. We'll have a 5-way tie, with 20% market share each.

    2. Apple/iOS, HP/WebOS, Google/Android win, each with 33% share, while RIM & WP7 die, but M$ keeps pumping $ into WP7 for 20 years while remaining in denial.




  • Reply 92 of 266
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Is this going to work for Nokia? Actually I doubt it. I don't think there is the will to make this work. In all likelihood, their profit per handset will go up, but their sales will go down.



    I see your point. Nokia has to make some radical changes and don't have a great track record with that. This is something that could be a great success or a great disaster.



    Quote:

    Is this going to work for Microsoft? Actually I doubt if they care very much. But with Nokia's carrier relationship they will certainly be able to ship more WP7 handsets.



    I think they do care. They have to care. The personal computer is about to entire its decline. Mobile devices are the next frontier. I think MS just does not have the corporate culture needed to change with the times. They will need to figure something out or get left behind.
  • Reply 93 of 266
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Nokia isn't a software company. Hardware is the most critical part of their core business.



    When you are the largest phone manufacturer in the world, who do you have to be compatible with?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    Wow, so that is even worse. A custom non compatible version of Windows Phone OS.



    Outsourcing the most critical part of your core business, to a competitor no less, is an absolutely brilliant decision.



  • Reply 94 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I think they do care. They have to care. The personal computer is about to entire its decline. Mobile devices are the next frontier. I think MS just does not have the corporate culture needed to change with the times. They will need to figure something out or get left behind.



    I think if they cared, they'd go all-in, and do an exclusive deal with Nokia.



    Currently, it looks like just another licensing deal, which fits into their "Well it worked for Windows" mantra.



    C.
  • Reply 95 of 266
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post


    One advantage - Microsoft will pay Nokia several hundred millions dollars to use Windows Phone 7.



    Nokia should use that money to implement the new Windows keys on their phone: Ctrl, Alt, and Del keys at least for the beginning. :-)
  • Reply 96 of 266
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I agree. Nokia and MS should have done an exclusive agreement.



    MS not doing an exclusive is more fear than apathy. The conservative corporate culture afraid of radical change.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    I think if they cared, they'd go all-in, and do an exclusive deal with Nokia.



    Currently, it looks like just another licensing deal, which fits into their "Well it worked for Windows" mantra.



    C.



  • Reply 97 of 266
    Yeskia is perfect name for Steve Bummer's new product
  • Reply 98 of 266
    normmnormm Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    I think that "up close" in Helsinki they are probably not going to react very well at all. We are talking about *the* national company here, I don't think the majority of the folks that use Nokia products, let alone the huge portion of the population that works there, is going to see this as good news.



    Former Nokia exec Tomi Ahonen thinks this move is insane.
  • Reply 99 of 266
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    knew this was coming the day Elop got the Nokia job last September. but i didn't expect such a complete sellout to MS.



    first, there was no word about Ovi, but if Nokia dumps Ovi and uses only Windows Marketplace and other MS sales fronts for content and services, then it becomes totally dependent on MS for its "ecosystem." and that would be irreversible, leaving Nokia essentially a permanent MS captive.



    second, going "open source" with MeeGo is a joke. look what happened to the "open source" Symbian foundation - death. this was probably just a face saving token move demanded by Nokia's board of directors, to maintain a pretense Nokia still has some potential future OS independence from MS. but it doesn't.



    third, while it sounds great, combining the efforts of two badly screwed-up corporate cultures to develop a merged hardware/OS design process is going to be a fiasco. there will be turf battles at every level up and down the ladder - because everyone on each side in MS and Nokia is fighting to save their jobs/power.



    so the new line of Nokia WP7+ products that will finally launch (how soon?) with great hype will be a mish mash - not bad, but not compelling and remaining an also-ran in a crowded marketplace (just like WP7 now). Nokia's smartphone sales will stay flat while its Symbian sales wind down. resulting in a downward spiral of growing annual losses and dropping stock prices.



    however, the Euro regulators will never allow MS and or any US company to outright take over Nokia. so in 4 or 5 years, the sucked-dry husk that will be left will probably "merge" with one of the growing Asian OEM's.
  • Reply 100 of 266
    drowdrow Posts: 121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    One important thing you have to factor. Even in its current decline Nokia still sells as many phones as everyone else combined.



    If they can make this work. WP would actually be the number one OS in the world.



    not necessarily. most of nokia's phones are also not smartphones.
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