Apple's iPad "running far ahead" in enterprise adoption

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  • Reply 61 of 107
    shobizshobiz Posts: 207member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Help me understand what you are asking for.



    1) How many 3rd-party apps are we talking about: tens, hundreds, thousands, all.

    Tens TODAY, that can change any day now. Just one is an issue so it doesn't really matter.



    2) if you could acquire the rights to distribute these apps, how would you distribute them:

    --- a) Push to each device

    --- b) Pull to each device

    Apps would ideally be pushed OTA via MDM if that were in fact possible.



    3) How will you handle update notifications and the actual updates?

    -- a) data/file changes introduced by updates

    Users should not get update notifications, they should just have them pushed to them OTA



    4) How will you verify that each device has the correct:

    -- a) version of iOS

    -- b) version of enterprise apps

    -- c) version 3rd-party apps

    -- d) version of device/system profile settings and provisions.

    We can determine the iOS the device is running today (using internal systems). There is no way to know the rest without a MDM.



    5) What will you do when any or all conditions aren't met?

    ???



    6) How do you currently handle the above issues for any existing mobile device, regardless of manufacturer or or device type (laptop, smart phone tablet, etc.). That is company information I cannot give out.





    7) Will the inability of resolving any or all of the above issues prevent you from deploying an iPad solution?

    -- a) Why

    -- b) why not

    That is up to the customer (Business)




    I'm not asking for anything, just discussing. We are already creating our own processes.

    I did however add some quick comments in bold to your inquiries.
  • Reply 62 of 107
    shobizshobiz Posts: 207member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by felipur View Post


    Using iPads and iPhones to drive adoption of xserves is far more likely to decrease iDevice sales than it is to increase xserve sales. Apple needs configuration and management tools that run on the hardware enterprises have. And it is moving that direction.





    I don't think it's laziness, it's an unwillingness to become the kind of company that providing "enterprise solutions" requires becoming. Enterprise is not one market, it's thousands of tiny markets. To succeed in enterprise solutions requires huge amounts of customization flexibility and product variations. IBM is very successful in enterprise because they shifted from hardware to support, offering custom solutions, configurations, maintenance, etc. Every customer is a unique solution.



    Apple doesn't want to become IBM, it wants to focus on very large markets addressable by a small number of products.



    It's not laziness, it's staying as a focused company.



    God I hope not!
  • Reply 63 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chet62 View Post


    One of the reasons that iPads are becoming the standard tablet in schools and other enterprise systems, is a very simple one- the ability to have the wifi work with the network proxy.



    As a teacher, I've seen a several people, including myself, with Android phones and tablets (I have an Android phone) who were a bit shocked to find out that they will not work in our school because we need to be able to set up the SSID with a proxy URL. Those with iPhones and iPads haven't had that problem. The spot for that entry is right in the wifi set up.



    For whatever reason, Google left that out of the basic Android OS. To get it, one has to root the device and either load a third party app or flash a new, third party ROM. Both of course, will more than likely void the warranty.



    When I moved from my Blackberry to an Android (T-Mobile's MyTouch 4g), I was incredibly disappointed to find this out. The network signal is weak at best, and the wifi is useless.



    When the iPad first came out, I was not terribly impressed. It was little more than a large iTouch. With the improvements in the OS (namely multitasking), the boatload of apps that have arrived designed with the iPad in mind, the product has improved dramatically. When it takes its next jump forward, in a couple of month with iPad2, I'll be online to buy one.



    Well, if you don't know already, the BOA just bought a few thousand iPads, and will be experimenting with them over the school year. I may help out with that deployment.
  • Reply 64 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post


    All this talk about the enterprise considering that Apple pretty much killed their only true enterprise grade product.



    Xserve.



    Instead of Apple building an ecosystem around the Xserve to manage mobile devices thus promoting greater adoption of said devices and the Xserve for management, they run away.



    Apple needs to wake up and create, deliver, and promote enterprise solutions. Fo real this time.



    The oh its not selling excuse is called lack of real effort. Apple is lazy in regards to the enterprise. Imagine all the good the could do if the put the same effort as they put in creating and marketing their consumer products into the enterprise sector.



    Apple does disappoint in this area.



    They aren't interested. They pick up a lot of business users despite their consumer first philosophy. The XServe simply wasn't going anywhere, because Apple didn't want to build 2U and up models, or blades. It's their choice.



    But they are interested in selling iOS to the enterprise, and there, they've been very successful. Several articles have said that companies are reporting that Apple is sending engineers around to these accounts to find out what problems they are having, and what they want to see done next. This is pretty good, engineers rather than salespeople. HP used to be that way. When I used to order test equipment from them, an engineer would pick up the phone, not a salesperson.



    They're doing something right, or these big companies wouldn't be so happy about all of this.
  • Reply 65 of 107
    Give workers a device and OS they'd love to use in order to boost productivity.



    Imagine that.
  • Reply 66 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum


    Help me understand what you are asking for.



    1) How many 3rd-party apps are we talking about: tens, hundreds, thousands, all.

    Tens TODAY, that can change any day now. Just one is an issue so it doesn't really matter.



    2) if you could acquire the rights to distribute these apps, how would you distribute them:

    --- a) Push to each device

    --- b) Pull to each device

    Apps would ideally be pushed OTA via MDM if that were in fact possible.



    3) How will you handle update notifications and the actual updates?

    -- a) data/file changes introduced by updates

    Users should not get update notifications, they should just have them pushed to them OTA



    4) How will you verify that each device has the correct:

    -- a) version of iOS

    -- b) version of enterprise apps

    -- c) version 3rd-party apps

    -- d) version of device/system profile settings and provisions.

    We can determine the iOS the device is running today (using internal systems). There is no way to know the rest without a MDM.



    5) What will you do when any or all conditions aren't met?

    ???



    6) How do you currently handle the above issues for any existing mobile device, regardless of manufacturer or or device type (laptop, smart phone tablet, etc.). That is company information I cannot give out.





    7) Will the inability of resolving any or all of the above issues prevent you from deploying an iPad solution?

    -- a) Why

    -- b) why not

    That is up to the customer (Business)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post


    I'm not asking for anything, just discussing. We are already creating our own processes.

    I did however add some quick comments in bold to your inquiries.



    Thanks, the comments you provided help me understand.



    I was under the impression (from your prior posts on this topic} that you worked for IT implementing iPad projects. From the comments to mine in this post it appears that you provide services/programming to IT.



    I make the above distinction, because what you appear to be defining is: ways to integrate the iPad for IT Administration -- rather than implementation of a specific iPad project



    Apple could solve some of these issues. A third party service could be created to address every issue you raised. The 3rd-party solution may be preferable to an Apple-supplied solution as it could be more focused to the needs of IT/Enterprise and more agile in delivering them.



    Is that what you call an MDM?
  • Reply 67 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Well, if you don't know already, the BOA just bought a few thousand iPads, and will be experimenting with them over the school year. I may help out with that deployment.



    Mel,



    Who is BOA -- Bank of America comes to mind, but they have nothing to do with the school year!



    What is the project?



    Is it listed here?



    http://ipadpilots.k12cloudlearning.com/
  • Reply 68 of 107
    shobizshobiz Posts: 207member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Thanks, the comments you provided help me understand.



    I was under the impression (from your prior posts on this topic} that you worked for IT implementing iPad projects. From the comments to mine in this post it appears that you provide services/programming to IT.



    I make the above distinction, because what you appear to be defining is: ways to integrate the iPad for IT Administration -- rather than implementation of a specific iPad project



    Actually I really do both and then some. I work with developing solutions, implementing them, creating support processes and tools, developing software and software installs, Mr. Firedrill to fix things, etc... I guess you could say soup 2 nuts..



    Apple could solve some of these issues. A third party service could be created to address every issue you raised. The 3rd-party solution may be preferable to an Apple-supplied solution as it could be more focused to the needs of IT/Enterprise and more agile in delivering them.



    Is that what you call an MDM?

    Pretty much. MDM's still have the issue of how to distribute app store apps without violating any of Apples requirements or agreements. Over the past 1-2 years Apple has made strides is making changes that help enterprises more. Hopefully in 1-2 more years we will have more capabilities to make life in the enterprise to manage these devices simplier.





    xxxxxxxxx
  • Reply 69 of 107
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,012member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post




    In my 16 + years with IBM, I was involved in hundreds of installations and conversions,




    I think the IBM you knew is very different from today's! We have IBM as our outsourcer, and it took us six months to get a development environment set up. 9 months into our 12 month project, our SIT environment is nearly provisioned. UAT and Production are just a twinkle in someone's eye.



    On my anecdotal experience, if you were a 16 year IBMer starting today, it wouldn't be 'hundreds', it would more like 'tens' of installations.



    Just a light hearted look at how 'agile' the world has become in the corporate sense: I'm not having a did at any anyone's bona fides.
  • Reply 70 of 107
    Apple doesn't need an "enterprise salesforce" what they need is an "enterprise support force". Sales will happen on their own, but a support team that can handle large scale placement (sales), integration services, support services, warranty services, repair services, etc. is what is needed.



    Apple has been terrible, absolutely awful at providing even basic enterprise services in the entire history of the company, and they show absolutely no indications of even beginning to get a clue about enterprise.



    In fact the exact opposite is true. By discontinuing the XServe, they have made it clear they have no interest in enterprise and can't or won't even maintain the required equipment (servers) that are need to support an infrastructure full of iPads. The iPad can't stand on it's own in enterprise - it has to have back end support, both technology and staff, and Apple is loathe to provide either.



    The iPad is riding high right now, but Apple's competitors will quickly come up from behind and kick the legs out from under iPad because Apple will completely neglect the needs of the enterprise. It's really quite sad.
  • Reply 71 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post


    Apple doesn't need an "enterprise salesforce" what they need is an "enterprise support force". Sales will happen on their own, but a support team that can handle large scale placement (sales), integration services, support services, warranty services, repair services, etc. is what is needed.



    While I agree with your sentiment, I think both the sales and after-sales support is being contracted out to Unisys:

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...t_clients.html



    I think this might be the first of several contracts to service customers who fall outside Apple's CE focus.
  • Reply 72 of 107
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post


    I hear you, but so far the MDM's such as MobileIron just allow you to basically say these apps are approved. Then there is Boxtone which doesn't meet our needs at all. So we have talked to numerous developers. They are not facilitating the deployment of the non enterprise apps to the devices in an automated manner. I've had numerous calls with Apple and vendors. Simply put they can't, anything done today to try to distribute app store apps would be a violation of Apples agreements. What MDM's are great for TODAY is managing the settings.



    Get your own shop an Enterprise Developer license, have your app developers pass apps to you to place into your in-company enterprise app portal. There is a bit of a learning curve for the folks who will be the in-house provisioner approvers, but there is no need to go through the app store for the enterprise apps and no Apple approval criteria. You may even be able to contact and contract app store developers to provide you custom-badged apps for your enterprise. This is the high level description:



    https://developer.apple.com/library/...roduction.html



    We see this as a nice way to get what we want when we don't want particular portions of Apples curation.
  • Reply 73 of 107
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,012member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Get your own shop an Enterprise Developer license, have your app developers pass apps to you to place into your in-company enterprise app portal. There is a bit of a learning curve for the folks who will be the in-house provisioner approvers, but there is no need to go through the app store for the enterprise apps and no Apple approval criteria. You may even be able to contact and contract app store developers to provide you custom-badged apps for your enterprise. This is the high level description:



    https://developer.apple.com/library/...roduction.html



    We see this as a nice way to get what we want when we don't want particular portions of Apples curation.



    Does setting up an iPad against an enterprise app store preclude its participation in the public one?
  • Reply 74 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post


    In fact the exact opposite is true. By discontinuing the XServe, they have made it clear they have no interest in enterprise and can't or won't even maintain the required equipment (servers) that are need to support an infrastructure full of iPads.



    I'm not aware of any OS X Server specific component being required to support an infrastructure full of iPads. What OS X Server specific component are you speaking of?
  • Reply 75 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Get your own shop an Enterprise Developer license, have your app developers pass apps to you to place into your in-company enterprise app portal. There is a bit of a learning curve for the folks who will be the in-house provisioner approvers, but there is no need to go through the app store for the enterprise apps and no Apple approval criteria. You may even be able to contact and contract app store developers to provide you custom-badged apps for your enterprise. This is the high level description:



    https://developer.apple.com/library/...roduction.html



    We see this as a nice way to get what we want when we don't want particular portions of Apples curation.



    I believe he stated that he's already deploying the enterprise apps in-house without issue. The issue he is talking about is with 3rd party applications.
  • Reply 76 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Get your own shop an Enterprise Developer license, have your app developers pass apps to you to place into your in-company enterprise app portal. There is a bit of a learning curve for the folks who will be the in-house provisioner approvers, but there is no need to go through the app store for the enterprise apps and no Apple approval criteria. You may even be able to contact and contract app store developers to provide you custom-badged apps for your enterprise. This is the high level description:



    https://developer.apple.com/library/...roduction.html



    We see this as a nice way to get what we want when we don't want particular portions of Apples curation.





    We tried that route months ago for app store apps. Apple said no. Violated apple agreements.

    I am not talking about enterprise apps being an issue. Those are easy and not an issue at all.



    In talks with over a dozen app developers and apple they would have to rewrite their app in a manner that is significantly different from the one in the app store in order to NOT violate apple agreements.



    I don't pull this stuff out of the air and yes I have read those documents and others many times over the years. I have been talking with apple regarding these devices since before the first iphone was released (that is a hint).



    I created a method of handling this stuff (at least for now) that doesn't upset apple. I just can't post it as my employer would not be very pleased.
  • Reply 77 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by veblen View Post


    I'm not aware of any OS X Server specific component being required to support an infrastructure full of iPads. What OS X Server specific component are you speaking of?





    You're right. However, it would have been pretty cool if apple had put a package together including XServe and an Apple type MDM solution for iPhones and iPads. That would have been just another appliance to install into a data center(s) and would have likely increased XServe sales to boot.
  • Reply 78 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post


    You're right. However, it would have been pretty cool if apple had put a package together including XServe and an Apple type MDM solution for iPhones and iPads. That would have been just another appliance to install into a data center(s) and would have likely increased XServe sales to boot.



    Maybe. I can only speak for my organization but I think requiring an OS X server component would be an obstacle to the iPad's adoption in our enterprise. As it is now we just buy the iPads and use our existing infrastructure to host the components we'll need to deploy them. Requiring OS X Server would bring about questions from management about our institutional knowledge with the platform and their comfort level with OS X Server. I wouldn't have any issue with this and maybe the other UNIX admins and I would end up supporting it. I can imagine getting a large amount of push back from the windows desktop support staff who'd be doing the day to day support of the iPads if they'd have to interact with OS X though.
  • Reply 79 of 107
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,667member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jivemaster View Post


    It's a shame the practicality isn't there as far as openness is concerned.



    What you fail to realize is that in many corporate locations the PC on the desktop is a closed system. Often the installations are locked down significantly. IPad actually remove some of the concerns and management effort required to keep a PC a good corporate customer.

    Quote:

    I use my ipad to read the news and make the odd note here and there, but anything further than remote access apps, it's too locked down to be overly useful.



    For you maybe. Or maybe you are a Google employee. I really don't know but iPad is perfectly fine for corporate and is even desired because of the security the platform has. Further writting an app for the thing is fairly straight forward so that isn't an issue either.

    Quote:

    Once competing tablets are released, the ecosystem as a whole will push forward and hopefully the ipad will get more useful.



    The iPad gets more and more useful with more and more apps. Expanding OS capabilities help some too. However I think you mis an important point, iPad isn't usefull as a way to solve old problems like one would with a laptop. Rather it is a way to approach new problems and even a few old ones in unique ways that a laptop is less than optimal for.

    Quote:





    The whole enterprise adoption thing is really because there is nothing else in the market at the moment.



    duh!!!!



    Seriously though corporate isn't going to adopt Android tablets all that fast due to many sites having an allergic reaction to anything Linux based. Google itself isn't always looked upon to kindle in the corporate world either.

    Quote:

    With practically only one choice in tablets available, its obvious the ipad would be on top. Once honeycomb hits it's game on.



    Not really as I don't see a huge pull in the corporate world to Android. There are just to many issues with it that cause IT people to react like it was a flea infested dead rat. Competition will happen but it won't be between Apple iPad and Android. At least not in the corporate market.
  • Reply 80 of 107
    http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/profiles/



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post


    Apple doesn't need an "enterprise salesforce" what they need is an "enterprise support force". Sales will happen on their own, but a support team that can handle large scale placement (sales), integration services, support services, warranty services, repair services, etc. is what is needed.



    Apple has been terrible, absolutely awful at providing even basic enterprise services in the entire history of the company, and they show absolutely no indications of even beginning to get a clue about enterprise.



    In fact the exact opposite is true. By discontinuing the XServe, they have made it clear they have no interest in enterprise and can't or won't even maintain the required equipment (servers) that are need to support an infrastructure full of iPads. The iPad can't stand on it's own in enterprise - it has to have back end support, both technology and staff, and Apple is loathe to provide either.



    The iPad is riding high right now, but Apple's competitors will quickly come up from behind and kick the legs out from under iPad because Apple will completely neglect the needs of the enterprise. It's really quite sad.



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