Apple's iPad "running far ahead" in enterprise adoption

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 107
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,667member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post


    Apple doesn't need an "enterprise salesforce" what they need is an "enterprise support force". Sales will happen on their own, but a support team that can handle large scale placement (sales), integration services, support services, warranty services, repair services, etc. is what is needed.



    Not in the slightests. In fact I'm willing to say that it appears that many corporate sites are learning that the reliance upon vendor resources is very very expensive and offers little in return. I know of at least one manufacturing installlation where most repairs are handled internally now because service contracts are a loosing proposition.

    Quote:

    Apple has been terrible, absolutely awful at providing even basic enterprise services in the entire history of the company, and they show absolutely no indications of even beginning to get a clue about enterprise.



    Actually I think Apple has more than a clue while many corporate environments operate with a mainframe mentality. In an environment where you are forced to control costs service contracts can be a big negative. They represent a lot of money up front for failures that might not even happen. The reality is modern well designed PCs don't require maintenance 24/7. Now a days it is not unreasonable to expect a PC to last 5 years on a desktop before breaking down.

    Quote:

    In fact the exact opposite is true. By discontinuing the XServe, they have made it clear they have no interest in enterprise and can't or won't even maintain the required equipment (servers) that are need to support an infrastructure full of iPads. The iPad can't stand on it's own in enterprise - it has to have back end support, both technology and staff, and Apple is loathe to provide either.



    Since when is it the norm for a corporate site to source servers from the same company that supplies the client hardware? Yes I know many do but most do not. I actually find people making such arguements to be completely ridiculous. Do you buy your copiers and printers from the same people that make your servers? Apple's not being in the server market has absolutely nothing to do with the viability of the iPad as a corporate solution.

    Quote:

    The iPad is riding high right now, but Apple's competitors will quickly come up from behind and kick the legs out from under iPad because Apple will completely neglect the needs of the enterprise. It's really quite sad.



    Nope not at all. Enterprise will either take on a modern approach or they will be left behind. I know of what I speak because the place I work at was subject to a take over recently. The old IT ways are going real fast. They are being replaced with policies that recognize that tightly controlled homogenous installations are not the way forward. Neither are expensive services for areas where they are not needed. Some of the old guard still remain of course but even they seem to recognize some of the errors of the past. Especially being dependent on one platform/vendor.
  • Reply 82 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post


    We tried that route months ago for app store apps. Apple said no. Violated apple agreements.

    I am not talking about enterprise apps being an issue. Those are easy and not an issue at all.



    In talks with over a dozen app developers and apple they would have to rewrite their app in a manner that is significantly different from the one in the app store in order to NOT violate apple agreements.



    I don't pull this stuff out of the air and yes I have read those documents and others many times over the years. I have been talking with apple regarding these devices since before the first iphone was released (that is a hint).



    I created a method of handling this stuff (at least for now) that doesn't upset apple. I just can't post it as my employer would not be very pleased.



    Ahh...



    This last, in your series of posts, makes me think I understand where you are coming from. You have been describing the Apple that I have known and loved/hated since 1978. Over that time, if I summed up my frustrations, they would be in the following sentences (yours might be similar):





    Apple doesn't care about the enterprise and IT! If only Apple would...







    Now, let me see if I can convince you that that is a good thing!





    Many technology "companies" have departments, reporting to the SVP level, who deal with enterprise/IT. Their job is to listen to the needs of enterprise/IT and feed them back to people developing products. As new products are planned and developed, this department contacts key movers and shakers in the enterprise/IT world and runs the plans by them for purposes of heads-up, evaluation and feedback.



    Apple doesn't do this!



    But here's the thing... Ask yourself what would have happened if an Apple "enterprise/IT support" group guy had gone out and asked their enterprise/IT contacts about: The conversion from PPC to Intel; The iPhone; The iPad?



    Chances are that these "plans" would have been too disruptive to enterprise/IT. And if Apple had sought and listened to their feedback -- these disruptive products would (at best) still be in development/refinement (or, more likely, would have been shelved).



    Instead, Apple creates and releases products that are not beholden (pre-approved) by anyone but Apple.



    It is for others, enterprise/IT in our discussion, to adapt and make the technology work for them.



    Sometimes these disruptive products are so compelling that enterprise/IT (or 3rd-party providers) have no choice, but to create solutions that compensate for Apple's lack of enterprise/IT awareness and support.





    And there is money to be made doing this!





    And that is a good thing!
  • Reply 83 of 107
    I disagree with the Apple sales estimate of 33.7 million iPads put forward by Reitze in that I predict the number of iPads sold in the same period to be 33.712958 million (give or take 5 million)
  • Reply 84 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post


    I disagree with the Apple sales estimate of 33.7 million iPads put forward by Reitze in that I predict the number of iPads sold in the same period to be 33.712958 million (give or take 5 million)



    I believe you are low by 26 million and change -- 60 million iPad unit sales in calendar year 2011.



    No inside info or anything -- just an iSWAG based on observing Apple, the market and disruptive technology since 1978.
  • Reply 85 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Ahh...



    Apple doesn't care about the enterprise and IT! If only Apple would...





    Now, let me see if I can convince you that that is a good thing!




    Now _that_ is what I call a post. Founded, insightful, made me think. And I agree. Thank you for sharing your view!



    PhilBoogie
  • Reply 86 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post


    The iPads limitations for corporate/enterprise use are fairly large.

    To improve this situation the iPad would have to have...



    A central accessible file system.

    Simple common printing capabilities.

    The ability to stand alone as a computing device without the need to sync with a PC.

    Microsoft developing apps for it`s corporate software packages available through the app store.

    USB compatibility.



    There are work arounds for everything I`ve mentioned above but Apple should develop some dedicated solutions to these limitations if they want to take off on the corporate environment as quickly as they have in the public area.



    By the way, I`m not a Fandroid.

    More of a Mac cultist.







    USB ? Are you nuts.

    Corporations frown upon this, as its a security nightmare.

    Do you actually work in any IT shops ?
  • Reply 87 of 107
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,012member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Give workers a device and OS they'd love to use in order to boost productivity.



    Imagine that.



    Enjoyment of the product and productivity don't necessarily go hand in hand.



    Whilst i have loved using the iPad since i got one, and enjoyed being productive with it, i think i have actually been less productive. I'm not talking about being distracted by other trinkets within the OS. Its single tasking focus has made me slower in completing the things i want to do. An example being summarizing a PDF. It's not that straightforward on an iPad.



    Every time i sit in front of a PC or a Mac I am reminded how productive i can be.
  • Reply 88 of 107
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,495member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I believe you are low by 26 million and change -- 60 million iPad unit sales in calendar year 2011.



    No inside info or anything -- just an iSWAG based on observing Apple, the market and disruptive technology since 1978.



    Are these times not comparable to the period around the introduction of the IBM PC?



    The PC, so revolutionary then, has now become like what the CP/M 'ecosystem' was then, and the upstart tablet form is the new PC, the architecture/form factor that will now be what transforms the market. The tablet represents the personal transportable computer, the Really Personal Computer.



    A new era now coalesces around the brains that are five times more likely to be on the internet at any given time. (My estimate, based on my experience, so I would consider other estimates like, say, three or six times more likely.) A new kind of internet is spawned based on people enjoying themselves on their RPCs.



    Companies like a new version of Amazon spring up to take care of these new Silicon Valley-bohemian characters transformed into consumers and now spread far and wide around the world, like the Well/Whole Earth Catalog crowd became Wired. The business world jumps in immediately, backs the new architecture and makes it a standard.



    Back then CP/M went away. This won't happen with the PC, because the world can now contain as many operating systems as are able to keep up and evolve and stay interoperable with the rest. The whole Yin-Yang interplay between Microsoft (yang) and Apple (yin) has forced there to be an ecosystem of ecosystems, an imperative of interoperability. Same with the internet, which is even more cross-platform demanding, come to think of it. So obvious.



    'Disruptive' seems to be the word of the day for transformative technologies. Where did it come from? I missed its opening, lost track at 'paradigm shift.' What we have here is a tectonic shift.
  • Reply 89 of 107
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,495member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Enjoyment of the product and productivity don't necessarily go hand in hand.



    Whilst i have loved using the iPad since i got one, and enjoyed being productive with it, i think i have actually been less productive. I'm not talking about being distracted by other trinkets within the OS. Its single tasking focus has made me slower in completing the things i want to do. An example being summarizing a PDF. It's not that straightforward on an iPad.



    Every time i sit in front of a PC or a Mac I am reminded how productive i can be.



    True, the Pad is for the times and uses in between the desk and the phone, and that includes meetings, I imagine, and home. And commuting, if you're lucky enough not to have to drive.



    But so far not for heavy lifting, or even writing much, I find.
  • Reply 90 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Enjoyment of the product and productivity don't necessarily go hand in hand.



    Whilst i have loved using the iPad since i got one, and enjoyed being productive with it, i think i have actually been less productive. I'm not talking about being distracted by other trinkets within the OS. Its single tasking focus has made me slower in completing the things i want to do. An example being summarizing a PDF. It's not that straightforward on an iPad.



    Every time i sit in front of a PC or a Mac I am reminded how productive i can be.





    1) Yes! Likely, less focused -- but potentially more productive,





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


    Are these times not comparable to the period around the introduction of the IBM PC?



    The PC, so revolutionary then, has now become like what the CP/M 'ecosystem' was then, and the upstart tablet form is the new PC, the architecture/form factor that will now be what transforms the market. The tablet represents the personal transportable computer, the Really Personal Computer.



    A new era now coalesces around the brains that are five times more likely to be on the internet at any given time. (My estimate, based on my experience, so I would consider other estimates like, say, three or six times more likely.) A new kind of internet is spawned based on people enjoying themselves on their RPCs.



    Companies like a new version of Amazon spring up to take care of these new Silicon Valley-bohemian characters transformed into consumers and now spread far and wide around the world, like the Well/Whole Earth Catalog crowd became Wired. The business world jumps in immediately, backs the new architecture and makes it a standard.



    Back then CP/M went away. This won't happen with the PC, because the world can now contain as many operating systems as are able to keep up and evolve and stay interoperable with the rest. The whole Yin-Yang interplay between Microsoft (yang) and Apple (yin) has forced there to be an ecosystem of ecosystems, an imperative of interoperability. Same with the internet, which is even more cross-platform demanding, come to think of it. So obvious.



    'Disruptive' seems to be the word of the day for transformative technologies. Where did it come from? I missed its opening, lost track at 'paradigm shift.' What we have here is a tectonic shift.





    2) Yes! a massive shift is taking place -- but at a much more rapid/rabid pace than we have seen before.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


    True, the Pad is for the times and uses in between the desk and the phone, and that includes meetings, I imagine, and home. And commuting, if you're lucky enough not to have to drive.



    But so far not for heavy lifting, or even writing much, I find.





    3) Yes! Work still requires heavy lifting -- and that is being done with heavy equipment.





    The juxtaposition of these 3 posts is as interesting as their content -- they are in conflict, to a degree, but [mostly] all are true.





    Here's what I think is happening, and why.





    A) The Internet has become, at once, the source, the repository, and the conduit to the information we use and need -- recent example Egypt. The Internet is integral to the use of computers.



    B) The iPhone-class smart phone put an inexpensive, powerful computer in our pocket -- for the first time we had (A) at our fingertips -- from the bathroom stall to the mountain top. We can always be connected -- it's liberating and kinda' fun at the same time.



    C) The Apps are changing the way we work and the tools we use. We have "corralled the cats" -- all that remains is to drive them to market.



    D) The iPad-class Tablet has proven that "you can take it [work/play] with you (in a way not possible with netbooks or laptops).





    Return with me, now, to those thrilling days of yesteryear...



    The "heavy lifting" and "real work" were done on mainframe or mini computers. Microcomputers were just toys. There was no desktop publishing, CAD/Drafting,.. PDFs, etc. -- or most of the important things we use today.



    VisiCalc changed all that.







    All of a sudden we had an app that exploited a platform to do productive work! The combination of App and Platform did things that the mainframe or mini could not compete with -- in terms of cost, responsiveness, lead time, and productivity.



    For example: Any department in a major enterprise could produce and revise their budget/forecasts in less time than it took to prepare and get approval for an IT implementation of a solution for 18 months down the road (the, then, typical IT lead time).



    The cost: Under $3,000. The need: The information provided by the App and Platform. The value: You rate 'em -- to the department or enterprise it was often the difference between success and failure.





    Things changed rapidly as "heavy lifting" work was repackaged and apps were developed to run on the desktop computers. New uses and productivity were provided by Apps that exploited the one-on-one interface of the desktop with the talents of the individual.



    IBM came along and added legitimacy with the introduction of the IBM/PC.





    What happened was:

    -- "heavy lifting" work was redefined and repackaged into Apps that ran on the available platform -- the desktop computer.

    -- New Apps were invented to exploit the platform and do things that hadn't been done [practical] before -- Desktop Publishing, Video editing, etc.





    OK!





    This has all happened before -- and it's happening again!



    Only this time it is happening much faster.



    The tablet is more ubiquitous, affordable, enjoyable...



    The tablet is acceptably adaptable to do much of the "heavy lifting" work [as we know it] when necessary.



    The tablet is a more robust target for new or repackaged "heavy lifting" Apps than anything that has come before.



    The developers are trained and in place to create the apps for the platform.



    The infrastructure is in place to implement solutions in seconds (download an app) and become immediately productive -- whenever, wherever!





    I need to keep telling myself: "It's the Apps stupid!"



    Platforms come and go -- and the Apps exploit them.



    ... it's always the Apps





    We are less than 1 year into the "Tablet Revolution".



    When do you think the tipping point will occur?



    What "heavy lifting" work [apps] do you think remain to be implemented on the tablet to allow the tablet to become the primary computing device? Pick three!





    Now, if you'll excuse me -- it's time to drive those cats to market...



    Hi-ho Silver... Away...
  • Reply 91 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Mel,



    Who is BOA -- Bank of America comes to mind, but they have nothing to do with the school year!



    What is the project?



    Is it listed here?



    http://ipadpilots.k12cloudlearning.com/



    You know, sometimes I hate the auto correct on my iPad. I typed BOE, or at least I thought I did.



    That's a pretty good list. I didn't know about it. Thanks. It could be this one, but it doesn't go to the article, so I can't tell for sure, and I didn't want to look through too many of the pages right now.



    http://ipadpilots.k12cloudlearning.c...salearningtool
  • Reply 92 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by penchanted View Post


    While I agree with your sentiment, I think both the sales and after-sales support is being contracted out to Unisys:

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...t_clients.html



    I think this might be the first of several contracts to service customers who fall outside Apple's CE focus.



    Unisys is either the third or forth VAR Apple has, I don't remember the number. But Unisys is the biggest.
  • Reply 93 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    What you fail to realize is that in many corporate locations the PC on the desktop is a closed system. Often the installations are locked down significantly. IPad actually remove some of the concerns and management effort required to keep a PC a good corporate customer.



    For you maybe. Or maybe you are a Google employee. I really don't know but iPad is perfectly fine for corporate and is even desired because of the security the platform has. Further writting an app for the thing is fairly straight forward so that isn't an issue either.



    The iPad gets more and more useful with more and more apps. Expanding OS capabilities help some too. However I think you mis an important point, iPad isn't usefull as a way to solve old problems like one would with a laptop. Rather it is a way to approach new problems and even a few old ones in unique ways that a laptop is less than optimal for.



    duh!!!!



    Seriously though corporate isn't going to adopt Android tablets all that fast due to many sites having an allergic reaction to anything Linux based. Google itself isn't always looked upon to kindle in the corporate world either.





    Not really as I don't see a huge pull in the corporate world to Android. There are just to many issues with it that cause IT people to react like it was a flea infested dead rat. Competition will happen but it won't be between Apple iPad and Android. At least not in the corporate market.



    Assuming that this is true, and is typical of larger Honeycomb tablets in any way, then they won't sell at all, much less to the corporate world. Also note that a monthly contract is required for WiFi use, and apparently, you can't use the tablet without getting that.



    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Computer...at233400050016
  • Reply 94 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Ahh...



    This last, in your series of posts, makes me think I understand where you are coming from. You have been describing the Apple that I have known and loved/hated since 1978. Over that time, if I summed up my frustrations, they would be in the following sentences (yours might be similar):





    Apple doesn't care about the enterprise and IT! If only Apple would...







    Now, let me see if I can convince you that that is a good thing!





    Many technology "companies" have departments, reporting to the SVP level, who deal with enterprise/IT. Their job is to listen to the needs of enterprise/IT and feed them back to people developing products. As new products are planned and developed, this department contacts key movers and shakers in the enterprise/IT world and runs the plans by them for purposes of heads-up, evaluation and feedback.



    Apple doesn't do this!



    But here's the thing... Ask yourself what would have happened if an Apple "enterprise/IT support" group guy had gone out and asked their enterprise/IT contacts about: The conversion from PPC to Intel; The iPhone; The iPad?



    Chances are that these "plans" would have been too disruptive to enterprise/IT. And if Apple had sought and listened to their feedback -- these disruptive products would (at best) still be in development/refinement (or, more likely, would have been shelved).



    Instead, Apple creates and releases products that are not beholden (pre-approved) by anyone but Apple.



    It is for others, enterprise/IT in our discussion, to adapt and make the technology work for them.



    Sometimes these disruptive products are so compelling that enterprise/IT (or 3rd-party providers) have no choice, but to create solutions that compensate for Apple's lack of enterprise/IT awareness and support.





    And there is money to be made doing this!





    And that is a good thing!



    Not entirely. As I've already pointed out, Apple is sending engineers to these sites to find out what their needs are, at least in relation to iPhone and iPad use. This is a new thing for Apple, and reflects what HP used to do when they were known as an engineering company rather than a marketing one, as they are now. In fact HP was bitterly accused of being oblivious to the business world because of it, so they changed. Of course, they became much larger as a result, so that accusation was correct in a way. But then, they also split off their test and measurement group shortly after.



    But Apple IS concerned with corporate America, and I assume corporate elsewhere. But not so much with Mac hardware. And I believe that it's where the misconception comes from.
  • Reply 95 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post


    I disagree with the Apple sales estimate of 33.7 million iPads put forward by Reitze in that I predict the number of iPads sold in the same period to be 33.712958 million (give or take 5 million)



    Looks pretty close to me.
  • Reply 96 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post


    USB ? Are you nuts.

    Corporations frown upon this, as its a security nightmare.

    Do you actually work in any IT shops ?



    That's very interesting, because I've read in several articles, that one reason corporate likes iPads is BECAUSE it doesn't have USB. I've mentioned this a number of times, but people don't seem to have picked up on it.



    Though we could do without the "nuts" bit.
  • Reply 97 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    How do enterprises manage iPads? Install applications, OS updates, etc...? Does OSX Server have built in management capabilities?



    They dont, this blog post is pure iPad hype BS. iPad's at my work are treated like smartphones. In the very few areas that we have a totally secure guest, internet access only wireless access, iPad's can use the wireless network. Going over 3G they can touch things like Exchange email via Active Sync, only after they user signs their iPad away and then Active Sync policies are pushed to it, can you say "forced password policies". If the user loses the iPad we remote wipe it. Most people are not cool with that.



    Short of that no iPad is going to "delay" a computer purchase in most corporations.



    Now I am sure there are a few corporations that dont care about security and let these devices all the way into the corporate network. Not exactly sure how they work with anything other than web based apps since there is not real file managment on a iPad.
  • Reply 98 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You know, sometimes I hate the auto correct on my iPad. I typed BOE, or at least I thought I did.



    That's a pretty good list. I didn't know about it. Thanks. It could be this one, but it doesn't go to the article, so I can't tell for sure, and I didn't want to look through too many of the pages right now.



    http://ipadpilots.k12cloudlearning.c...salearningtool



    Ha!



    I have just the opposite problem. My eyes tire easily. So sometimes, instead of using the iPad to post in the wee hours, I use an iMac on a TV table besides my bed. I have to sit up and put a pillow on my lap with the kb on top of that.



    With the larger screen, I can increase the type size without needing to pan.





    But I swear I make more typing errors that way -- I thought AI was autoMistaking my typing





    Regardless, keep us posted from time to time on the BOS [sic] project.



    It appears that most of the AI threads, in the foreseeable future, will have some relationship to the iPad.





    My daughter assists teachers in the 5th grade, and she has kids in middle school and high

    school.



    I'd love to be able to assist in any way to help realize the potential of iPads in the local schools.



    Sigh!
  • Reply 99 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Not entirely. As I've already pointed out, Apple is sending engineers to these sites to find out what their needs are, at least in relation to iPhone and iPad use. This is a new thing for Apple, and reflects what HP used to do when they were known as an engineering company rather than a marketing one, as they are now. In fact HP was bitterly accused of being oblivious to the business world because of it, so they changed. Of course, they became much larger as a result, so that accusation was correct in a way. But then, they also split off their test and measurement group shortly after.



    But Apple IS concerned with corporate America, and I assume corporate elsewhere. But not so much with Mac hardware. And I believe that it's where the misconception comes from.



    I hope you are correct that Apple is asking, listening then giving feedback to Apple management at the appropriate level -- then acting on the feedback.



    What corporate wants most, long term platform planning information, I suspect Apple will never provide -- its not in their genes.



    At best the vars can unofficially point out the obvious (product opportunities, probable features, release dates, etc.) and make the corporate needs and concerns are understood at the highest levels within Apple. The vars can indicate that corporate "is on the right path" or provide subtle guidance when they stray. (That is similar to the way IBM would walk the fine secrecy/disclosure line, in the 60-80s).



    As I tried to point out, the Apple disruptive products are usually so compelling that corporate will drop competitive projects or create unplanned new projects to avail themselves of the benefits of the new Apple product.



    If the vars have done their jobs, those with current Apple projects, will be less disrupted and better able to take advantage of the new product.





    I just reread the above -- I do believe that I am running for something in 2012
  • Reply 100 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post


    We tried that route months ago for app store apps. Apple said no. Violated apple agreements.

    I am not talking about enterprise apps being an issue. Those are easy and not an issue at all.



    In talks with over a dozen app developers and apple they would have to rewrite their app in a manner that is significantly different from the one in the app store in order to NOT violate apple agreements.



    I don't pull this stuff out of the air and yes I have read those documents and others many times over the years. I have been talking with apple regarding these devices since before the first iphone was released (that is a hint).



    I created a method of handling this stuff (at least for now) that doesn't upset apple. I just can't post it as my employer would not be very pleased.



    I agree 3rd party app management is a problem right now. Largely this is because Apple has pushed developers into a very consumer friendly licensing model (all my family's devices and all my family's machines with one license) and this model doesn't work very well for institutional purchases.



    I suspect Apple will create a new kind of institutional account where multiple licenses are pooled and installation decrements the available count while delete, remote wipe, possibly inactivity increments the count. Possibly they could go to a keyserver type model where running the app requests a key before it will run and releases it on quit but that may be too intrusive for a mobile device where connectivity isn't guaranteed.



    However they do it, there are going to be a lot of back end changes required to make it work and that may take some time. Apple needs to come up with a solution for education (think classrooms of ipads) and that's going to be the same solution they will peddle to enterprises.
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