Am I the only one who thinks that dumbing down a system for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer is bad? AppleInsider, stop sucking off Apple. There are no "complex key commands" for Spaces, it's ctrl+arrow keys. Apparently, because I still use a keyboard, I am no longer part of Apple's target audience. Similarly, there is absolutely nothing hard about "Macintosh HD --> Applications" to find all of my programs. The only problem with this is that OS X hides mounted disks on the desktop by default, which is idiotic anyway.
My 50 year old mother, who clicks and drags scroll bars because she doesn't know how to use a scroll wheel, can use Spotlight to find anything because it is literally that easy.
Also, I bought a MacBook Pro with a 17" display for a reason. Making things like iTunes, iCal, and Mail be full-screen apps is fucking stupid, and a waste of the 2.3 million pixels on my screen. I love Apple, but they need to get it together,
And finally, fuck gestures. Keyboard shortcuts are faster and easier, and require less movement.
Please watch your language! I'm not going to delete it as so many have already quoted it. But please don't do it again.
Please watch your language! I'm not going to delete it as so many have already quoted it. But please don't do it again.
Thanks, melgross.
I find the gratuitous repeated use of the "f" word to add nothing to a discussion. It simply reflects poorly upon the one whose vocabulary is so restricted that he cannot express his views with more appropriate language.
Has anybody got some chill pills? MS-DOS advocate I think is perfect.
More to the point, apparently, there are many people who don't think thoroughly before they post their comments.
All the features discussed here are actually in addition to and are optional. Plus, I'm confident there are some developers out there who share your view and would do something about it.
Am I the only one who thinks that dumbing down a system for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer is bad? AppleInsider, stop sucking off Apple. There are no "complex key commands" for Spaces, it's ctrl+arrow keys. Apparently, because I still use a keyboard, I am no longer part of Apple's target audience. Similarly, there is absolutely nothing hard about "Macintosh HD --> Applications" to find all of my programs. The only problem with this is that OS X hides mounted disks on the desktop by default, which is idiotic anyway.
My 50 year old mother, who clicks and drags scroll bars because she doesn't know how to use a scroll wheel, can use Spotlight to find anything because it is literally that easy.
Also, I bought a MacBook Pro with a 17" display for a reason. Making things like iTunes, iCal, and Mail be full-screen apps is fucking stupid, and a waste of the 2.3 million pixels on my screen. I love Apple, but they need to get it together,
And finally, fuck gestures. Keyboard shortcuts are faster and easier, and require less movement.
With all due respect, you're utterly and completely clueless about how the majority of people use and interact with a computer, as well as their abilities and willingness to use and discover features. I deal with these people everyday, and those who use keyboard shortcuts are a minority. I know several people with macs who didnt even know about spotlight, nor where to find t
One thing this means is that all new Macs will ship with some sort of trackpad/mouse, like the laptops have. Apple's committing big to gestures now, it's officially part of the user interface.
Could someone explain why I can't see the videos, please. I am using Firefox 3.6 on my Mac with Snow Leopard. Interestingly, I can see the videos in Safari. Do I need a plug-in or something? All I get is a grey box with an 'X' in the middle.
I have to admit. Lion does seem to be growing on me. Apple has never really let me down in the innovation department. Well, except that tiny iPod Nano. That was dumb. But in terms of software intuition, this looks pretty promising. Like they're getting ready to take their next big leap ahead of Windows.
Of course, that kind of sucks for Windows users, cause you know Dell is going to be bundling third party software to mimic Macs and it's just going to slow things down even more.
But, I'm still a bit anxious. I'm definitely a power user, and I find very little useful about gestures as I need more precision and comfortable longevity than a trackpad seems to provide me. I'm also a die hard fan of spaces and it's worked its way into my muscle memory now. Hopefully, if I don't like the changes, there might be a way to switch to the classic mode or something.
Also, to add to the discussion of Mr. DOS' comment, it's really difficult as a computer savvy person to understand how someone less savvy doesn't get it. But, I know plenty of people who simply don't use the beef of Apple's workflow innovations because they just don't spend enough time on the computer to really get used to it all. And, if you're used to Windows XP or something earlier, you've grown quite accustomed to never, ever searching your computer for something because it will literally take hours and no one needs a picture of their poodle that badly. So, I'm betting when people get to Mac, search functionality isn't even on their radar.
All this stuff looks like it's going to be a pretty big improvement.
But I have to wonder, if they're only at 10.7, and they're dubbing this version 'Lion', does that mean it's technically the end of the OS X line? I mean, in the chain of big cats, I don't think you can get much higher than Lions.
But I have to wonder, if they're only at 10.7, and they're dubbing this version 'Lion', does that mean it's technically the end of the OS X line? I mean, in the chain of big cats, I don't think you can get much higher than Lions.
Please watch your language! I'm not going to delete it as so many have already quoted it. But please don't do it again.
My apologies. Will not happen again. Though, for what it's worth, "f***" (which i see enough people here using) is no less offensive than actually spelling the word out.
But I stand by my original points: probably 90% of apps do not need to be full-screen on a Mac, ever. Apple should focus on adding features like Hyperdock's window-arranging features, or a multitude of other things that I can't think of right now, before adding a useless full-screen iCal, or a redundant Launchpad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
With all due respect, you're utterly and completely clueless about how the majority of people use and interact with a computer,as well as their abilities and willingness to use and discover features.
I work in the IT field at a big university. I help these people every day, and I know exactly how they use computers. I also know that very few people are willing to try to figure out how to do anything by themselves, and I never said anything to the contrary. People should learn how to use their computers though.
My apologies. Will not happen again. Though, for what it's worth, "f***" (which i see enough people here using) is no less offensive than actually spelling the word out.
But I stand by my original points: probably 90% of apps do not need to be full-screen on a Mac, ever. Apple should focus on adding features like Hyperdock's window-arranging features, or a multitude of other things that I can't think of right now, before adding a useless full-screen iCal, or a redundant Launchpad.
I work in the IT field at a big university. I help these people every day, and I know exactly how they use computers. I also know that very few people are willing to try to figure out how to do anything by themselves, and I never said anything to the contrary. People should learn how to use their computers though.
People 'should' learn how to use their computers, fine, but they won't. Plain and simple. Either they're not curious enough, too ignorant, or just plain don't care, but thats the truth. So whats the bottom line then? They simply will not be aware, or will be too troubled to use 90% of the features of an OS. Using the argument of 'they should' is silly. I just find it odd how you're so up in arms about Apple giving users another way to do things, a way that may just be more intuitive and thus have a higher chance of being used. I don't see anything like keyboard shortcuts being stripped out, and your frustration is utterly irrational. This is something that will probably benefit the MAJORITY of users, not geared towards people like us who visit apple fansites and post on message boards (although I personally like everything I see in Lion). ios devices have had wild success for their ease of use, and it makes sense for Apple to exploit some of these new paradigms for the desktop. They're adding functionality and discoverability, not removing them.
One thing this means is that all new Macs will ship with some sort of trackpad/mouse, like the laptops have. Apple's committing big to gestures now, it's officially part of the user interface.
Magic Mouse has a track pad on top already. Hopefully it will be able to accommodate all that is required in Lion.
JakeTheRock, you're not addressing the point of full screen. It's not just to isolate the app with no distractions -- I agree that not all apps need that kind of undivided attention. A full screen app creates its own dedicated space. In the grand universe of the new OS X "desktop", that means that you can quickly swipe from space to space, from app to app very easily.
Contrary to your argument, I find that casual users will never use a keyboard shortcut, but will quickly adopt gestures. I don't know how many times I've had to show friends the CMD+Q shortcut only to see them still go to the dock or menu to look for the Quit command. Gestures on the other hand are easily learned and adopted long term. The 2 finger scroll is genius!
As a pro user myself, I find myself using gestures instead of keyboard shortcuts more and more. I still use shortcuts when I'm working in Aperture, but navigating the OS, I barely touch my keyboard now.
As for LaunchPad, I think it's the most important UI addition to OSX since the Dock. 1 button (or a gesture) on your Mac will bring forward your favourite apps and as quickly disappear out of sight. No more overcrowded dock. No more workaround using a stack. No more typing your app into Spotlight. No more opening a Finder window, hitting Applications and scrolling to your app -- does anybody still do that?
The world of terminal commands and keyboard shortcuts is quickly being outmodernized by touch gestures and UI. One can remain closed minded and be left behind or join the future, where the majority of people will live. JakeTheRock, I find it amusing how you feel so threatened by innovation. Don't worry, your terminal and shortcuts will still be there where you can find it and the rest of us can forget about.
I work in the IT field at a big university. I help these people every day, and I know exactly how they use computers. I also know that very few people are willing to try to figure out how to do anything by themselves, and I never said anything to the contrary. People should learn how to use their computers though.
Your experiences show why Apple are wisely making everything simpler and more intuitive. Learning 'how' has to be separated from 'learning complex stuff just because we IT people feel needed when they can't'.
I thought most of what was shown in those videos looked terrible.
- The dashboard background idea. This means having to click another app to come out of it.
- Mission Control doesn't look that great with the little windows and big one at the bottom. The current Exposé is much better IMO.
- the menu system overlapping the title bar of a full-screen app and moving the spotlight icon in fullscreen mode. Have they got a Windows UI designer working on this now?
- icons reshuffling based on context, why would you need that? It's distracting as you move things and you are going to think that you've let go the mouse or something by accident.
This is not what I imagined this system to be like at all. I guess I'd get used to it but so far I don't like it much beyond the scrollbars.
With more gestures, I hope they stick the trackpad onto the keyboards in future though as long as they keep the numpad.
I can understand wanting to make things more iOS for the switchers that are used to their phones and such.
But I have been at this since System 7. Do I have the option to not use these features and to have things scroll, swipe etc like a normal computer.
Yet, there's a reason why you're not still using System 7... There's always a segment of users that resist change and then eventually fall in line and would refuse to go back to the older way of doing things.
Nonetheless, Lion will allow you to get your old scroll bars back and keyboard shortcuts will still be there like they are today. If you don't want to use gestures, don't.
Am I the only one who thinks that dumbing down a system for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer is bad? AppleInsider, stop sucking off Apple. There are no "complex key commands" for Spaces, it's ctrl+arrow keys. Apparently, because I still use a keyboard, I am no longer part of Apple's target audience. Similarly, there is absolutely nothing hard about "Macintosh HD --> Applications" to find all of my programs. The only problem with this is that OS X hides mounted disks on the desktop by default, which is idiotic anyway.
My 50 year old mother, who clicks and drags scroll bars because she doesn't know how to use a scroll wheel, can use Spotlight to find anything because it is literally that easy.
Also, I bought a MacBook Pro with a 17" display for a reason. Making things like iTunes, iCal, and Mail be full-screen apps is fucking stupid, and a waste of the 2.3 million pixels on my screen. I love Apple, but they need to get it together,
And finally, fuck gestures. Keyboard shortcuts are faster and easier, and require less movement.
there are still new things for you to love. I promise.
Comments
Am I the only one who thinks that dumbing down a system for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer is bad? AppleInsider, stop sucking off Apple. There are no "complex key commands" for Spaces, it's ctrl+arrow keys. Apparently, because I still use a keyboard, I am no longer part of Apple's target audience. Similarly, there is absolutely nothing hard about "Macintosh HD --> Applications" to find all of my programs. The only problem with this is that OS X hides mounted disks on the desktop by default, which is idiotic anyway.
My 50 year old mother, who clicks and drags scroll bars because she doesn't know how to use a scroll wheel, can use Spotlight to find anything because it is literally that easy.
Also, I bought a MacBook Pro with a 17" display for a reason. Making things like iTunes, iCal, and Mail be full-screen apps is fucking stupid, and a waste of the 2.3 million pixels on my screen. I love Apple, but they need to get it together,
And finally, fuck gestures. Keyboard shortcuts are faster and easier, and require less movement.
Please watch your language! I'm not going to delete it as so many have already quoted it. But please don't do it again.
Please watch your language! I'm not going to delete it as so many have already quoted it. But please don't do it again.
Thanks, melgross.
I find the gratuitous repeated use of the "f" word to add nothing to a discussion. It simply reflects poorly upon the one whose vocabulary is so restricted that he cannot express his views with more appropriate language.
John
More to the point, apparently, there are many people who don't think thoroughly before they post their comments.
All the features discussed here are actually in addition to and are optional. Plus, I'm confident there are some developers out there who share your view and would do something about it.
Am I the only one who thinks that dumbing down a system for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer is bad? AppleInsider, stop sucking off Apple. There are no "complex key commands" for Spaces, it's ctrl+arrow keys. Apparently, because I still use a keyboard, I am no longer part of Apple's target audience. Similarly, there is absolutely nothing hard about "Macintosh HD --> Applications" to find all of my programs. The only problem with this is that OS X hides mounted disks on the desktop by default, which is idiotic anyway.
My 50 year old mother, who clicks and drags scroll bars because she doesn't know how to use a scroll wheel, can use Spotlight to find anything because it is literally that easy.
Also, I bought a MacBook Pro with a 17" display for a reason. Making things like iTunes, iCal, and Mail be full-screen apps is fucking stupid, and a waste of the 2.3 million pixels on my screen. I love Apple, but they need to get it together,
And finally, fuck gestures. Keyboard shortcuts are faster and easier, and require less movement.
With all due respect, you're utterly and completely clueless about how the majority of people use and interact with a computer, as well as their abilities and willingness to use and discover features. I deal with these people everyday, and those who use keyboard shortcuts are a minority. I know several people with macs who didnt even know about spotlight, nor where to find t
One thing this means is that all new Macs will ship with some sort of trackpad/mouse, like the laptops have. Apple's committing big to gestures now, it's officially part of the user interface.
You mean like http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/?
Of course, that kind of sucks for Windows users, cause you know Dell is going to be bundling third party software to mimic Macs and it's just going to slow things down even more.
But, I'm still a bit anxious. I'm definitely a power user, and I find very little useful about gestures as I need more precision and comfortable longevity than a trackpad seems to provide me. I'm also a die hard fan of spaces and it's worked its way into my muscle memory now. Hopefully, if I don't like the changes, there might be a way to switch to the classic mode or something.
Also, to add to the discussion of Mr. DOS' comment, it's really difficult as a computer savvy person to understand how someone less savvy doesn't get it. But, I know plenty of people who simply don't use the beef of Apple's workflow innovations because they just don't spend enough time on the computer to really get used to it all. And, if you're used to Windows XP or something earlier, you've grown quite accustomed to never, ever searching your computer for something because it will literally take hours and no one needs a picture of their poodle that badly. So, I'm betting when people get to Mac, search functionality isn't even on their radar.
All this stuff looks like it's going to be a pretty big improvement.
But I have to wonder, if they're only at 10.7, and they're dubbing this version 'Lion', does that mean it's technically the end of the OS X line? I mean, in the chain of big cats, I don't think you can get much higher than Lions.
But I have to wonder, if they're only at 10.7, and they're dubbing this version 'Lion', does that mean it's technically the end of the OS X line? I mean, in the chain of big cats, I don't think you can get much higher than Lions.
There's always the Sabretooth!
Please watch your language! I'm not going to delete it as so many have already quoted it. But please don't do it again.
My apologies. Will not happen again. Though, for what it's worth, "f***" (which i see enough people here using) is no less offensive than actually spelling the word out.
But I stand by my original points: probably 90% of apps do not need to be full-screen on a Mac, ever. Apple should focus on adding features like Hyperdock's window-arranging features, or a multitude of other things that I can't think of right now, before adding a useless full-screen iCal, or a redundant Launchpad.
With all due respect, you're utterly and completely clueless about how the majority of people use and interact with a computer,as well as their abilities and willingness to use and discover features.
I work in the IT field at a big university. I help these people every day, and I know exactly how they use computers. I also know that very few people are willing to try to figure out how to do anything by themselves, and I never said anything to the contrary. People should learn how to use their computers though.
My apologies. Will not happen again. Though, for what it's worth, "f***" (which i see enough people here using) is no less offensive than actually spelling the word out.
But I stand by my original points: probably 90% of apps do not need to be full-screen on a Mac, ever. Apple should focus on adding features like Hyperdock's window-arranging features, or a multitude of other things that I can't think of right now, before adding a useless full-screen iCal, or a redundant Launchpad.
I work in the IT field at a big university. I help these people every day, and I know exactly how they use computers. I also know that very few people are willing to try to figure out how to do anything by themselves, and I never said anything to the contrary. People should learn how to use their computers though.
People 'should' learn how to use their computers, fine, but they won't. Plain and simple. Either they're not curious enough, too ignorant, or just plain don't care, but thats the truth. So whats the bottom line then? They simply will not be aware, or will be too troubled to use 90% of the features of an OS. Using the argument of 'they should' is silly. I just find it odd how you're so up in arms about Apple giving users another way to do things, a way that may just be more intuitive and thus have a higher chance of being used. I don't see anything like keyboard shortcuts being stripped out, and your frustration is utterly irrational. This is something that will probably benefit the MAJORITY of users, not geared towards people like us who visit apple fansites and post on message boards (although I personally like everything I see in Lion). ios devices have had wild success for their ease of use, and it makes sense for Apple to exploit some of these new paradigms for the desktop. They're adding functionality and discoverability, not removing them.
One thing this means is that all new Macs will ship with some sort of trackpad/mouse, like the laptops have. Apple's committing big to gestures now, it's officially part of the user interface.
Magic Mouse has a track pad on top already. Hopefully it will be able to accommodate all that is required in Lion.
There's always the Sabretooth!
Yeah, the original Snow Lion
Contrary to your argument, I find that casual users will never use a keyboard shortcut, but will quickly adopt gestures. I don't know how many times I've had to show friends the CMD+Q shortcut only to see them still go to the dock or menu to look for the Quit command. Gestures on the other hand are easily learned and adopted long term. The 2 finger scroll is genius!
As a pro user myself, I find myself using gestures instead of keyboard shortcuts more and more. I still use shortcuts when I'm working in Aperture, but navigating the OS, I barely touch my keyboard now.
As for LaunchPad, I think it's the most important UI addition to OSX since the Dock. 1 button (or a gesture) on your Mac will bring forward your favourite apps and as quickly disappear out of sight. No more overcrowded dock. No more workaround using a stack. No more typing your app into Spotlight. No more opening a Finder window, hitting Applications and scrolling to your app -- does anybody still do that?
The world of terminal commands and keyboard shortcuts is quickly being outmodernized by touch gestures and UI. One can remain closed minded and be left behind or join the future, where the majority of people will live. JakeTheRock, I find it amusing how you feel so threatened by innovation. Don't worry, your terminal and shortcuts will still be there where you can find it and the rest of us can forget about.
I work in the IT field at a big university. I help these people every day, and I know exactly how they use computers. I also know that very few people are willing to try to figure out how to do anything by themselves, and I never said anything to the contrary. People should learn how to use their computers though.
Your experiences show why Apple are wisely making everything simpler and more intuitive. Learning 'how' has to be separated from 'learning complex stuff just because we IT people feel needed when they can't'.
AppleInsider, stop sucking off Apple.
I'm likely doing a bad thing responding to a troll, but grow up. Phrase your opinions like an adult and someone might listen or and or care.
There's always the Sabretooth!
Don't forget about the mysterious Liger!
Am I the only one who thinks that dumbing down a system for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer is bad?
In a way I agree with you.
I can understand wanting to make things more iOS for the switchers that are used to their phones and such.
But I have been at this since System 7. Do I have the option to not use these features and to have things scroll, swipe etc like a normal computer.
- The dashboard background idea. This means having to click another app to come out of it.
- Mission Control doesn't look that great with the little windows and big one at the bottom. The current Exposé is much better IMO.
- the menu system overlapping the title bar of a full-screen app and moving the spotlight icon in fullscreen mode. Have they got a Windows UI designer working on this now?
- icons reshuffling based on context, why would you need that? It's distracting as you move things and you are going to think that you've let go the mouse or something by accident.
This is not what I imagined this system to be like at all. I guess I'd get used to it but so far I don't like it much beyond the scrollbars.
With more gestures, I hope they stick the trackpad onto the keyboards in future though as long as they keep the numpad.
In a way I agree with you.
I can understand wanting to make things more iOS for the switchers that are used to their phones and such.
But I have been at this since System 7. Do I have the option to not use these features and to have things scroll, swipe etc like a normal computer.
Yet, there's a reason why you're not still using System 7... There's always a segment of users that resist change and then eventually fall in line and would refuse to go back to the older way of doing things.
Nonetheless, Lion will allow you to get your old scroll bars back and keyboard shortcuts will still be there like they are today. If you don't want to use gestures, don't.
Am I the only one who thinks that dumbing down a system for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer is bad? AppleInsider, stop sucking off Apple. There are no "complex key commands" for Spaces, it's ctrl+arrow keys. Apparently, because I still use a keyboard, I am no longer part of Apple's target audience. Similarly, there is absolutely nothing hard about "Macintosh HD --> Applications" to find all of my programs. The only problem with this is that OS X hides mounted disks on the desktop by default, which is idiotic anyway.
My 50 year old mother, who clicks and drags scroll bars because she doesn't know how to use a scroll wheel, can use Spotlight to find anything because it is literally that easy.
Also, I bought a MacBook Pro with a 17" display for a reason. Making things like iTunes, iCal, and Mail be full-screen apps is fucking stupid, and a waste of the 2.3 million pixels on my screen. I love Apple, but they need to get it together,
And finally, fuck gestures. Keyboard shortcuts are faster and easier, and require less movement.
there are still new things for you to love. I promise.