The generic term for windows is "operating system" and the distinction between "windows" and "operating system" is quiet clear. Or did you ever talk about "mac os x" or even "linux" by saying "hey my new windows is cool" while refering to another os?
App Store on the other hand is "application store" in short. if Apple could get the trademark on "app" then no prob with the store. But using two generic terms in a context where they are generic, i.e. you buy apps in the app store, does make a trademark claim hard.
PS: ofc the "general public" thinks of the app store as the apple app store because they have a biiiiig share in the relevant market.
MS has not ever trademarked the word windows. It HAS, however, trademarked "Microsoft Windows". Apple's argument is specious at best. If they want to TM "Apple App Store" or "iOS App Sore" and "Mac App Store" I can't imagine that this would be too problematic. They just want MS and Google to stop using the phrase App Store for their, well, app stores. Nonsense.
Microsoft has trademarked Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows Mobile, Windows 7 Phone, etc without Microsoft in it.
Oh, puh-leeze. Nobody ever even used the term "App" until Apple popularized it. Windows users never even called their programs "applications" -- they always called them "Programs" or "Program Files". Even Apple themselves didn't use the word "App" until the iPhone came out. Apple invented this word and they deserve the right to use it... nobody else.
Go, Apple!!
BS! We used the term app commonly in the software industry long before Apple "invented" it. However it was generally use in a two word description like "native apps," "web apps," and "portable apps." Apple did coin the term "app store" though. Prior to them doing so no one ever thought of an "app store" per se. Even Handango which is arguably one of the first mobile application stores years before Apple "invented" the app store didn't call themselves an app store.
So I agree Apple should be able to TM "App store" because I can't think of anyone else ever using it before them. Not successfully.
a store from Apple that sells applications created by a multitude of developers.
To my knowledge, the Term "App Store" has never been used by the Apple Computer, Inc., nor any other computer or tech company before that. From what was indicated in the documents, Apple filed trademark protection, almost immediately after it coined the term: App Store.
A company is given five years to protect any term or trademark it has coined, even it gets universally accepted and become part of the idiom.
Bayer lost its trademark right to the term "Aspirin", a drug formulation first created by Bayer, when the drug company did not protect it with trademark application.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta
Actually, they didn't. There are myriad documented uses of "app" before the iPhone. It's fine if you wish to defend their trademarking "App store," but let's not revise history simply to make a point, k?
Indeed, the term App and Store are generic, but the term "App Store" was never in use, in the context that Apple did once it created the "App Store", unless you can point to me a reference to the contrary. And, even if others have used the term before, if it has not been trademarked by the original creator, others, like many companies do may trademark the word or term (as is the case with "App Store") within a given time window before it becomes generic (see above).
Apple won the right to use the statement:
"There's an App for that ... Only at Apple***"
and that it is accurate to .
Each word in the statement is generic on its own, but conveyed a different meaning when the entirety is taken into context.
It was the fact that the Apple "App Store" had hundreds of thousands of Apps, then (now more than 360K) and could safely claim that their ads has Apps in the ones they claim to have
CGC
***This was an advertising dispute, raised by someone to the UK advertising board (???) and complained that Apple could not make the said statement, because other mobile ecosystems have similar applications.
Apple just needs to call it the 'Apple App Store' to distinguish it from other app stores (Windows Marketplace, Android Market, Ovi Store etc, all of which are app stores).
Windows is trademarked (with registration #1872264) because it's not a generic term for an operating system. This is why anyone else can still use the word windows in describing windows. It's a very fine distinction, but relevant. See the 1990 filing:
IC 009. US 038. G & S: computer programs and manuals sold as a unit; namely, graphical operating environment programs for microcomputers.
The App Store is a lot more generic in Apple's usage because it's an app store that's being called App Store. If Microsoft was selling glass panels and calling them Windows, that would be a more relevant comparison.
Apple's better argument is whether when people hear App Store, do they think Apple's App Store, or are other stores considered? Do people use the term Android App Store or Android Marketplace, or for that matter Microsoft, RIM, Nokia, etc...?
Apple has responded to Microsoft's complaint over a trademark filing for the term "App Store," with the iPhone maker calling out Microsoft's ownership of the name "Windows."
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo
Steve Balmer is an idiot. No talent, only threatening and buying products he doesn't understand. When will the Board of Directors fire this moron?
A mystery for sure, but let's hope he hangs on as M$ CEO forever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by willgonz
Microsoft already has a name for its store. It is Marketplace, even if they change the name to copy Apple it will still suck.
The only thing that M$ does that wouldn't suck is if they started to copy Hoover Vacuum cleaners!
No single word in any language should be registrable in any country where that is the primary language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias
I mean wow. Now a company can't use a name like "market" for their own market of applications? In no time no other company can't even build a market, for they will end out of words to use!
Don't let your ignorance of copyright and trademark laws become the foundation of your hate for Apple, or any company
As noted in previous post, copyright and trademark laws in the US and the world, allow the copyright of a word, to brand itself in a given field, if no one has copyrighted it yet.
IBM -- may have different meanings, but the original International Business Machine (IBM), has trademark "IBM" so no one is allow to use it, as a trademark
At the same time, a company cannot claim automatic trademark of a word, even if it the first to create or coin it, as was the case with the term "Aspirin" (see previous post).
Then, there is the creation of a "new term" to convey a different meaning altogether
Face and book may be generic words, but "Facebook" is a new term
And, so is "App Store" (see above)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx
I would be happy for Apple to give up the App Store when MSFT gives up Windows.
Mac OS - the Original Windows OS!
(commercially available that is)
but yout happiness, or those of the detractors here, is not the focus of copyright and trademark laws.
Meh. Doesn't hold water. If I were the judge, I'd tell them to come up with something better.
Prior to Windows, and even still today, people refer to the "windows" as screens. Windows was obviously a different take on this, like each screen was a window into something new and exciting (yeah, really gay.)
An "app store" is all that is: A store to buy apps from. Apple fails to realize that people have been calling software "Apps" or "Appz" for AGES.
If Microsoft called their software "Screens" then Apple's argument would make sense. The use of "Windows" was creative, while "App store" is not, plain and simple.
The generic term for windows is "operating system" and the distinction between "windows" and "operating system" is quiet clear. Or did you ever talk about "mac os x" or even "linux" by saying "hey my new windows is cool" while refering to another os?
App Store on the other hand is "application store" in short. if Apple could get the trademark on "app" then no prob with the store. But using two generic terms in a context where they are generic, i.e. you buy apps in the app store, does make a trademark claim hard.
PS: ofc the "general public" thinks of the app store as the apple app store because they have a biiiiig share in the relevant market.
Comments
No single word in any language should be registrable in any country where that is the primary language.
The generic term for windows is "operating system" and the distinction between "windows" and "operating system" is quiet clear. Or did you ever talk about "mac os x" or even "linux" by saying "hey my new windows is cool" while refering to another os?
App Store on the other hand is "application store" in short. if Apple could get the trademark on "app" then no prob with the store. But using two generic terms in a context where they are generic, i.e. you buy apps in the app store, does make a trademark claim hard.
PS: ofc the "general public" thinks of the app store as the apple app store because they have a biiiiig share in the relevant market.
MS has not ever trademarked the word windows. It HAS, however, trademarked "Microsoft Windows". Apple's argument is specious at best. If they want to TM "Apple App Store" or "iOS App Sore" and "Mac App Store" I can't imagine that this would be too problematic. They just want MS and Google to stop using the phrase App Store for their, well, app stores. Nonsense.
Microsoft has trademarked Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows Mobile, Windows 7 Phone, etc without Microsoft in it.
For more info:
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal...e/Windows.aspx
Oh, puh-leeze. Nobody ever even used the term "App" until Apple popularized it. Windows users never even called their programs "applications" -- they always called them "Programs" or "Program Files". Even Apple themselves didn't use the word "App" until the iPhone came out. Apple invented this word and they deserve the right to use it... nobody else.
Go, Apple!!
BS! We used the term app commonly in the software industry long before Apple "invented" it. However it was generally use in a two word description like "native apps," "web apps," and "portable apps." Apple did coin the term "app store" though. Prior to them doing so no one ever thought of an "app store" per se. Even Handango which is arguably one of the first mobile application stores years before Apple "invented" the app store didn't call themselves an app store.
So I agree Apple should be able to TM "App store" because I can't think of anyone else ever using it before them. Not successfully.
... No single word in any language should be registrable in any country where that is the primary language.
What about numbers? IBM has a trademark on '400', and perhaps some other numbers such as, '36', '370', '390', '6000'
Application Store => "App Store"
a store for applications (?).
Apple Store => "App Store"
a store from Apple that sells applications created by a multitude of developers.
To my knowledge, the Term "App Store" has never been used by the Apple Computer, Inc., nor any other computer or tech company before that. From what was indicated in the documents, Apple filed trademark protection, almost immediately after it coined the term: App Store.
A company is given five years to protect any term or trademark it has coined, even it gets universally accepted and become part of the idiom.
Bayer lost its trademark right to the term "Aspirin", a drug formulation first created by Bayer, when the drug company did not protect it with trademark application.
Actually, they didn't. There are myriad documented uses of "app" before the iPhone. It's fine if you wish to defend their trademarking "App store," but let's not revise history simply to make a point, k?
Indeed, the term App and Store are generic, but the term "App Store" was never in use, in the context that Apple did once it created the "App Store", unless you can point to me a reference to the contrary. And, even if others have used the term before, if it has not been trademarked by the original creator, others, like many companies do may trademark the word or term (as is the case with "App Store") within a given time window before it becomes generic (see above).
Apple won the right to use the statement:
"There's an App for that ... Only at Apple***"
and that it is accurate to .
Each word in the statement is generic on its own, but conveyed a different meaning when the entirety is taken into context.
It was the fact that the Apple "App Store" had hundreds of thousands of Apps, then (now more than 360K) and could safely claim that their ads has Apps in the ones they claim to have
CGC
***This was an advertising dispute, raised by someone to the UK advertising board (???) and complained that Apple could not make the said statement, because other mobile ecosystems have similar applications.
What about numbers? IBM has a trademark on '400'.
Same applies. Should Warner Bros. be given a trademark for 300?
Hell, maybe I'll go for 7, 11, 13, 21 & 69 .... especially 69. Now there is built-in marketing appeal!!
..... and I forgot, 24
IC 009. US 038. G & S: computer programs and manuals sold as a unit; namely, graphical operating environment programs for microcomputers.
The App Store is a lot more generic in Apple's usage because it's an app store that's being called App Store. If Microsoft was selling glass panels and calling them Windows, that would be a more relevant comparison.
Apple's better argument is whether when people hear App Store, do they think Apple's App Store, or are other stores considered? Do people use the term Android App Store or Android Marketplace, or for that matter Microsoft, RIM, Nokia, etc...?
Apple has responded to Microsoft's complaint over a trademark filing for the term "App Store," with the iPhone maker calling out Microsoft's ownership of the name "Windows."
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
Steve Balmer is an idiot. No talent, only threatening and buying products he doesn't understand. When will the Board of Directors fire this moron?
A mystery for sure, but let's hope he hangs on as M$ CEO forever!
Microsoft already has a name for its store. It is Marketplace, even if they change the name to copy Apple it will still suck.
The only thing that M$ does that wouldn't suck is if they started to copy Hoover Vacuum cleaners!
This is just the nth reason why Copyright is silly.
You obviously never say anything original of value.
Mac OS - the Original Windows OS!
(commercially available that is)
Mac OS - the Original Windows OS!
(commercially available that is)
http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/trade_defin.jsp
http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp
and, of course,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
No single word in any language should be registrable in any country where that is the primary language.
I mean wow. Now a company can't use a name like "market" for their own market of applications? In no time no other company can't even build a market, for they will end out of words to use!
Don't let your ignorance of copyright and trademark laws become the foundation of your hate for Apple, or any company
As noted in previous post, copyright and trademark laws in the US and the world, allow the copyright of a word, to brand itself in a given field, if no one has copyrighted it yet.
IBM -- may have different meanings, but the original International Business Machine (IBM), has trademark "IBM" so no one is allow to use it, as a trademark
At the same time, a company cannot claim automatic trademark of a word, even if it the first to create or coin it, as was the case with the term "Aspirin" (see previous post).
Then, there is the creation of a "new term" to convey a different meaning altogether
Face and book may be generic words, but "Facebook" is a new term
And, so is "App Store" (see above)
I would be happy for Apple to give up the App Store when MSFT gives up Windows.
Mac OS - the Original Windows OS!
(commercially available that is)
but yout happiness, or those of the detractors here, is not the focus of copyright and trademark laws.
CGC
Prior to Windows, and even still today, people refer to the "windows" as screens. Windows was obviously a different take on this, like each screen was a window into something new and exciting (yeah, really gay.)
An "app store" is all that is: A store to buy apps from. Apple fails to realize that people have been calling software "Apps" or "Appz" for AGES.
If Microsoft called their software "Screens" then Apple's argument would make sense. The use of "Windows" was creative, while "App store" is not, plain and simple.
Apple fails.
I would be happy for Apple to give up the App Store when MSFT gives up Windows.
Mac OS - the Original Windows OS!
(commercially available that is)
Perhaps "windowing OS" would work better?
And, btw, you *could* buy Xerox Star back then, they just didn't market it very well.
The argument from MS does make sense.
The generic term for windows is "operating system" and the distinction between "windows" and "operating system" is quiet clear. Or did you ever talk about "mac os x" or even "linux" by saying "hey my new windows is cool" while refering to another os?
App Store on the other hand is "application store" in short. if Apple could get the trademark on "app" then no prob with the store. But using two generic terms in a context where they are generic, i.e. you buy apps in the app store, does make a trademark claim hard.
PS: ofc the "general public" thinks of the app store as the apple app store because they have a biiiiig share in the relevant market.
Bingo. Nail, head, hit.