No, it's designed around a SCREENED system, with different screens for different functions.
The whole point of picking "Windows" as a name was that it was like opening a window to a new experience with each screen. As I said before, even today many people still refer to each window as a screen (mainly the old guys I work with who have been in IT for many many years.)
As far as I know the first use of graphical user interface utilizing the word window to describe the windowing environment was Smalltalk - 1972.
No, it's designed around a SCREENED system, with different screens for different functions.
The whole point of picking "Windows" as a name was that it was like opening a window to a new experience with each screen. As I said before, even today many people still refer to each window as a screen (mainly the old guys I work with who have been in IT for many many years.)
So "Windows" is a creative term used to differentiate a specific operating system.
If apple called their store the "iOS app store" and Microsoft called it the same, then obviously this would all make sense
There's nothing creative about the term window. It was already in use when Windows was first introduced. Your argument holds as much water as me saying "computers don't run apps, they run programs and apps and application are creative terms". As an example, the w and x window systems were introduced before Windows 1 and a long time before Windows 3.1 when it went mainstream.
Microsoft may have popularized the term, but they didn't invent it. If they can trademark Microsoft Windows, Apple can probably trademark App Store too.
Edit: mstone has an even earlier example than mine. I just found mine through wiki searching.
Microsoft may have popularized the term, bu they didn't invent it. If they can trademark Microsoft Windows, Apple can probably trademark App Store too.
I agree with this, except that we?re not talking terms that sprouted up around the same time. MS is, IMO, refuting this usage within a decent time frame while I don?t think Apple ever refuted the generalization of the term Windows, but if we?re going to go down that route we have to through in Word and Pages which neither company seems to have a problem with.
Ha ha! Pretty funny. Well, you're all right, to some degree, and all wrong, to another. You're all just too young, apparently, to know the history of the word "App" and how it came into common usage.
Apple did indeed coin the term "application," or "app" for short. But it wasn't for the iPhone. It was in the early 1980's for the Lisa computer, and subsequently used it for the Macintosh too. At that time most people in the industry used the term "program," or other terms which are now completely archaic, to describe what we know today as an "App." I know, because i was writing software before Apple was even founded.
But we are not arguing about App, but the term "App Store"
But the people to whom i was responding were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202
and? As noted previously, only clueless people would think that the term, "Application" is new. It is the new term "App Store" and the right of Apple to trademark the aforementioned term that is being contested here.
No, some were suggesting that App is too generic to be trademarked. But in fact, Apple coined the term, so they would have a right to argue that it isn't a generic term. Please try to follow the discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202
If you are aware of any publication that used the term, "App Store" before Apple did, please enlighten us.
WTF? Apple coined the term App. If anybody has a right to trademark App Store, it's Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik
Apple may have pioneered a concept, but it is so broad as to be un-trademarkable.
Apple's point - indeed the whole point of this article - is that the same logic applies to the term Windows.
Remember Apple popularized the term Windows with respect to UI long ago, before M$ ever developed their "Windows" OS.
Meh. Doesn't hold water. If I were the judge, I'd tell them to come up with something better.
Prior to Windows, and even still today, people refer to the "windows" as screens. Windows was obviously a different take on this, like each screen was a window into something new and exciting (yeah, really gay.)
An "app store" is all that is: A store to buy apps from. Apple fails to realize that people have been calling software "Apps" or "Appz" for AGES.
If Microsoft called their software "Screens" then Apple's argument would make sense. The use of "Windows" was creative, while "App store" is not, plain and simple.
Apple fails.
Nah, actually this is a fail on your part. It's not your fault that your wrong, but it is your fault that you didn't even bother to take a second to look it up before you spouted off.
You argue that windows is a generic term for a computer window, but fail to realise that Apple came out with such a system before Microsoft.
You say people used the term "app" before the app store without knowing that it comes from "application bundle" on Steve Jobs' other computer system NeXT step where the executables (which was what everyone mostly called apps in those days), ended with a *.app extension.
I'm not going to bother going on. Suffice to say you are pretty much wrong across the board here. Apple basically invented the term and was the first to use it. They also invented the term "App Store" and trademarked it. This is as close to a black and white, open and shut case as these things generally get.
So I could create and sell an OS called "______ Windows" as long as I didn't fill in the blank with Microsoft? I kind of doubt that.
Oddly enough Microsoft was unable to trademark "Windows" because it was just too generic and commonly used so they had to trademark "Microsoft Windows" and "MS Windows" And the "win" prefix on many names as well. Becuse of their use of windows and how closely it was associated with them they were able to win a claim against Lindows for dilution and confusion of their brand. So in essence they have enforceable sole use of the word "Windows" in the computer software arena without actually being able to register it as a trademark.
There's nothing creative about the term window. It was already in use when Windows was first introduced. Your argument holds as much water as me saying "computers don't run apps, they run programs and apps and application are creative terms". As an example, the w and x window systems were introduced before Windows 1 and a long time before Windows 3.1 when it went mainstream.
Microsoft may have popularized the term, but they didn't invent it. If they can trademark Microsoft Windows, Apple can probably trademark App Store too.
Edit: mstone has an even earlier example than mine. I just found mine through wiki searching.
Microsoft applied for the trademark for 'Windows' in 1990. By then, Mac OS had been using the term for 6 years and Amiga for a similar amount of time. So even if you ignore Unix, Smalltalk, and lots of other operating systems that used the term 'windows', the term had clearly been popularized - even before Microsoft came out with MicrosoftWindows.
MS has not ever trademarked the word windows. It HAS, however, trademarked "Microsoft Windows". Apple's argument is specious at best. If they want to TM "Apple App Store" or "iOS App Sore" and "Mac App Store" I can't imagine that this would be too problematic. They just want MS and Google to stop using the phrase App Store for their, well, app stores. Nonsense.
Apple may have pioneered a concept, but it is so broad as to be un-trademarkable. App Stores are clearly the model that others will use. I do not think Apple can trademark this linguistic concept, even if they did originally develop it. An app store is a conceptual thing that can easily refer to any company. Similar, indeed, to a "window." Apple is trying to trademark a generic noun.
Well, we are going in circles here, but I'll put one in...
I'm not sure what you mean by a "linguistic concept" but nobody is arguing that Apple owns the term "app" or the term "store." It is in putting the two together for a place to buy programs for mobile devices that (as far as I can tell) nobody has any evidence of being used before Apple started doing it.
If this is indeed a unique usage of those two common terms, then it is trademarkable. The fact that the term seems obvious in hindsight (mostly because Apple's own use of it has been massively popular) does not mean that Apple cannot trademark the combined term.
BTW, I do not know why you think this term is "broad." Does anyone use the term "App store" for anything other than a place to buy mobile programs?
You say people used the term "app" before the app store without knowing that it comes from "application bundle" on Steve Jobs' other computer system NeXT step where the executables (which was what everyone mostly called apps in those days), ended with a *.app extension.
App and Application predate NeXT. They came from Apple Lisa and, subsequently, Macintosh.
App and Application predate NeXT. They came from Apple Lisa and, subsequently, Macintosh.
The Windows and PC world always called them Programs, Program Files and Executables while Apple and Mac users called them Apps and Applications. 'Nix users called them Binaries
MS has not ever trademarked the word windows. It HAS, however, trademarked "Microsoft Windows". Apple's argument is specious at best. If they want to TM "Apple App Store" or "iOS App Sore" and "Mac App Store" I can't imagine that this would be too problematic. They just want MS and Google to stop using the phrase App Store for their, well, app stores. Nonsense.
Try releasing a brand-new OS called Windows. See what happens.
Try releasing a word processing app called Word, or an office suite called Office.
I can't imagine that this wouldn't be problematic.
Comments
Nobody ever even used the term "App" until Apple popularized it ...
i strongly suspect you forgot the term killer app in the context it was used several decades ago.
anyways, the real issue is the trademark filing of 'App Store' as it pertains to a service from which people can purchase software products.
No, it's designed around a SCREENED system, with different screens for different functions.
The whole point of picking "Windows" as a name was that it was like opening a window to a new experience with each screen. As I said before, even today many people still refer to each window as a screen (mainly the old guys I work with who have been in IT for many many years.)
As far as I know the first use of graphical user interface utilizing the word window to describe the windowing environment was Smalltalk - 1972.
No, it's designed around a SCREENED system, with different screens for different functions.
The whole point of picking "Windows" as a name was that it was like opening a window to a new experience with each screen. As I said before, even today many people still refer to each window as a screen (mainly the old guys I work with who have been in IT for many many years.)
So "Windows" is a creative term used to differentiate a specific operating system.
If apple called their store the "iOS app store" and Microsoft called it the same, then obviously this would all make sense
There's nothing creative about the term window. It was already in use when Windows was first introduced. Your argument holds as much water as me saying "computers don't run apps, they run programs and apps and application are creative terms". As an example, the w and x window systems were introduced before Windows 1 and a long time before Windows 3.1 when it went mainstream.
Microsoft may have popularized the term, but they didn't invent it. If they can trademark Microsoft Windows, Apple can probably trademark App Store too.
Edit: mstone has an even earlier example than mine. I just found mine through wiki searching.
Why don't clueless Apple fanboys understand the success of other companies is good for everyone!?
this, by far, is the most sensible post i will ever see in this thread.
Microsoft may have popularized the term, bu they didn't invent it. If they can trademark Microsoft Windows, Apple can probably trademark App Store too.
I agree with this, except that we?re not talking terms that sprouted up around the same time. MS is, IMO, refuting this usage within a decent time frame while I don?t think Apple ever refuted the generalization of the term Windows, but if we?re going to go down that route we have to through in Word and Pages which neither company seems to have a problem with.
MS has not ever trademarked the word windows. It HAS, however, trademarked "Microsoft Windows".
Absolutely, 100% wrong.
Microsoft has trademarked 'Windows" in the class of goods 'computer software'. Look at Microsoft's own page:
http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal...e/Windows.aspx
They do NOT use "Microsoft Windows" on this page, but rather use 'Windows", "windows 95", "Windows XP" and so on.
In fact, the site specifically says:
"Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and other countries."
Please stop spreading lies.
Ha ha! Pretty funny. Well, you're all right, to some degree, and all wrong, to another. You're all just too young, apparently, to know the history of the word "App" and how it came into common usage.
Apple did indeed coin the term "application," or "app" for short. But it wasn't for the iPhone. It was in the early 1980's for the Lisa computer, and subsequently used it for the Macintosh too. At that time most people in the industry used the term "program," or other terms which are now completely archaic, to describe what we know today as an "App." I know, because i was writing software before Apple was even founded.
But we are not arguing about App, but the term "App Store"
But the people to whom i was responding were.
and? As noted previously, only clueless people would think that the term, "Application" is new. It is the new term "App Store" and the right of Apple to trademark the aforementioned term that is being contested here.
No, some were suggesting that App is too generic to be trademarked. But in fact, Apple coined the term, so they would have a right to argue that it isn't a generic term. Please try to follow the discussion.
If you are aware of any publication that used the term, "App Store" before Apple did, please enlighten us.
WTF? Apple coined the term App. If anybody has a right to trademark App Store, it's Apple.
Apple may have pioneered a concept, but it is so broad as to be un-trademarkable.
Apple's point - indeed the whole point of this article - is that the same logic applies to the term Windows.
Remember Apple popularized the term Windows with respect to UI long ago, before M$ ever developed their "Windows" OS.
Meh. Doesn't hold water. If I were the judge, I'd tell them to come up with something better.
Prior to Windows, and even still today, people refer to the "windows" as screens. Windows was obviously a different take on this, like each screen was a window into something new and exciting (yeah, really gay.)
An "app store" is all that is: A store to buy apps from. Apple fails to realize that people have been calling software "Apps" or "Appz" for AGES.
If Microsoft called their software "Screens" then Apple's argument would make sense. The use of "Windows" was creative, while "App store" is not, plain and simple.
Apple fails.
Nah, actually this is a fail on your part. It's not your fault that your wrong, but it is your fault that you didn't even bother to take a second to look it up before you spouted off.
You argue that windows is a generic term for a computer window, but fail to realise that Apple came out with such a system before Microsoft.
You say people used the term "app" before the app store without knowing that it comes from "application bundle" on Steve Jobs' other computer system NeXT step where the executables (which was what everyone mostly called apps in those days), ended with a *.app extension.
I'm not going to bother going on. Suffice to say you are pretty much wrong across the board here. Apple basically invented the term and was the first to use it. They also invented the term "App Store" and trademarked it. This is as close to a black and white, open and shut case as these things generally get.
So I could create and sell an OS called "______ Windows" as long as I didn't fill in the blank with Microsoft? I kind of doubt that.
Oddly enough Microsoft was unable to trademark "Windows" because it was just too generic and commonly used so they had to trademark "Microsoft Windows" and "MS Windows" And the "win" prefix on many names as well. Becuse of their use of windows and how closely it was associated with them they were able to win a claim against Lindows for dilution and confusion of their brand. So in essence they have enforceable sole use of the word "Windows" in the computer software arena without actually being able to register it as a trademark.
There's nothing creative about the term window. It was already in use when Windows was first introduced. Your argument holds as much water as me saying "computers don't run apps, they run programs and apps and application are creative terms". As an example, the w and x window systems were introduced before Windows 1 and a long time before Windows 3.1 when it went mainstream.
Microsoft may have popularized the term, but they didn't invent it. If they can trademark Microsoft Windows, Apple can probably trademark App Store too.
Edit: mstone has an even earlier example than mine. I just found mine through wiki searching.
Microsoft applied for the trademark for 'Windows' in 1990. By then, Mac OS had been using the term for 6 years and Amiga for a similar amount of time. So even if you ignore Unix, Smalltalk, and lots of other operating systems that used the term 'windows', the term had clearly been popularized - even before Microsoft came out with MicrosoftWindows.
You mean their Application Stores.
Typo :
Their applicrashion store.
MS has not ever trademarked the word windows. It HAS, however, trademarked "Microsoft Windows". Apple's argument is specious at best. If they want to TM "Apple App Store" or "iOS App Sore" and "Mac App Store" I can't imagine that this would be too problematic. They just want MS and Google to stop using the phrase App Store for their, well, app stores. Nonsense.
That is a good point.
this, by far, is the most sensible post i will ever see in this thread.
Not if you're not only an Apple consumer, but a shareholder too......
i strongly suspect you forgot the term killer app in the context it was used several decades ago.
scotty321 was incorrect in thinking the term App originated with the iPhone. It is from the early 1980s, and "killer app" descended from that usage.
Apple may have pioneered a concept, but it is so broad as to be un-trademarkable. App Stores are clearly the model that others will use. I do not think Apple can trademark this linguistic concept, even if they did originally develop it. An app store is a conceptual thing that can easily refer to any company. Similar, indeed, to a "window." Apple is trying to trademark a generic noun.
Well, we are going in circles here, but I'll put one in...
I'm not sure what you mean by a "linguistic concept" but nobody is arguing that Apple owns the term "app" or the term "store." It is in putting the two together for a place to buy programs for mobile devices that (as far as I can tell) nobody has any evidence of being used before Apple started doing it.
If this is indeed a unique usage of those two common terms, then it is trademarkable. The fact that the term seems obvious in hindsight (mostly because Apple's own use of it has been massively popular) does not mean that Apple cannot trademark the combined term.
BTW, I do not know why you think this term is "broad." Does anyone use the term "App store" for anything other than a place to buy mobile programs?
Microsoft has trademarked Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows Mobile, Windows 7 Phone, etc without Microsoft in it.
For more info:
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal...e/Windows.aspx
I think it still makes difference.
App Store X, for example, does sound a bit more distinctive than just App Store.
The way I see it, "app store" is more of description than name. What is that? An app store. What is the name of that app store? Er... App Store?
You say people used the term "app" before the app store without knowing that it comes from "application bundle" on Steve Jobs' other computer system NeXT step where the executables (which was what everyone mostly called apps in those days), ended with a *.app extension.
App and Application predate NeXT. They came from Apple Lisa and, subsequently, Macintosh.
App and Application predate NeXT. They came from Apple Lisa and, subsequently, Macintosh.
The Windows and PC world always called them Programs, Program Files and Executables while Apple and Mac users called them Apps and Applications. 'Nix users called them Binaries
MS has not ever trademarked the word windows. It HAS, however, trademarked "Microsoft Windows". Apple's argument is specious at best. If they want to TM "Apple App Store" or "iOS App Sore" and "Mac App Store" I can't imagine that this would be too problematic. They just want MS and Google to stop using the phrase App Store for their, well, app stores. Nonsense.
Try releasing a brand-new OS called Windows. See what happens.
Try releasing a word processing app called Word, or an office suite called Office.
I can't imagine that this wouldn't be problematic.