Actual question for the PC crowd (that I pretty harshly went after in my last post ;-) )
I am actually curious to know the honest answer to this.
Is it sexist to even ASK if differences between men and women and their take on fashion have any place in the conversation about how and who the white iPhone will sell to?
Is it sexist to even ASK if differences between men and women and their take on fashion have any place in the conversation about how and who the white iPhone will sell to?
As I said in my original post that sparked this firestorm, I think fashionable women with plenty disposable income will opt to buy the white iPhone regardless of whether their contract is up or not. Those more frugal will wait. Either case the white iPhone is slightly more effeminate than the black, in my opinion. But it is still an iPhone. Since a number of guys here have stated that they think the white iPhone is sexy, attractive, stylish, etc. they are probably not republicans, nor am I.
As I said in my original post that sparked this firestorm, I think fashionable women with plenty disposable income will opt to buy the white iPhone regardless of whether their contract is up or not. Those more frugal will wait. Either case the white iPhone is slightly more effeminate than the black, in my opinion. But it is still an iPhone. Since a number of guys here have stated that they think the white iPhone is sexy, attractive, stylish, etc. they are probably not republicans.
Well done mstone...
I tend to agree. iPhone 3, my wife got the white one and I got the black for many of the reasons discussed when this thread was on track. Straight up fashion difference.
re: white iPhone 4: I'd think it wouldn't really drive new sales (much) but the disposable income women that DO care about fashion could switch up the black iPhone 4 to a white one. Should provide SOME help to what's going to be a very solid quarter anyway.
Most people came here to talk about the release of the white iPhone.
Seems there were a whole lot of people wearing the "PC God" badge on their sleeve. It's like they were checking in to foursquare to make sure they got enough in to get their "PC Badge" of the day. So... glad to see you finally started to crack down on this now.
You need to learn what PC means. No one is claiming there isn?t genetic differences. There are genetic differences between siblings, regardless of sex, even if they have the same parents.
The issue take is with the claim of inferiority based on a general difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apphole
[]Most women are totally clueless when it comes to computers. There might be a few exceptions to that rule, but overall, females need help from males when it comes to any computer related issues beyond the simplest of problems. This may be due to cultural issues or perhaps due to genetics. Either way, most women are worse at computers than men are.
You want to explain to us how being female means you are innately clueless when to comes to computers? You want to explain to us how something can be canon of one?s biology but also have exceptions when it?s the foundation for their inferiority? You want to explain to us why females need help from males in anything technical?
BTW, female and male refers to sex, a physical difference, whilst gender is solely a cultural manifest. There are plenty of cultural variations that are opposite of the crap you bigots are spewing.
PS: Before you start making points on this you should probably read up on the subject a bit. Check out The Mismeasure of Man is a 1981 book written by the now deceased Harvard paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould. He talks in detail about how anthropologists have spent centuries measuring cranial capacities as a way of determining the intelligent of a species and ?races? to determine which was more superior. The conclusion is that diet can make a big difference in the cranial size and a smaller capacity doesn?t infer a smaller capacity for intelligence among a species.
Ok. I only read this article because the title was talking about an iPhone 4s. I thought it was something new with the s. But it's just an iPhone 4. AI is my most trusted sight for apple news but this is a big oversite and am surprised it's not fixed. :0
You need to learn what PC means. No one is claiming there isn’t genetic differences. There are genetic differences between siblings, regardless of sex, even if they have the same parents.
The issue take is with the claim of inferiority based on a general difference.
You want to explain to us how being female means you are innately clueless when to comes to computers? You want to explain to us how something can be canon of one’s biology but also have exceptions when it’s the foundation for their inferiority? You want to explain to us why females need help from males in anything technical?
Well... I will say that I wasn't the one that said this. Reading back through the thread, I'm sure I did overgeneralize... but I don't think anyone can say there wasn't over the top political correctness going on (again, not from everybody).
The real problem is that the conversation started WITHOUT anything remotely sexist. I mean, not even close... mstone made an observation that would have been obvious to Stevie Wonder. Post #18, Prof. Peabody started with the "sexist" comments without any basis. I'll admit, I missed Apple ]['s first comment on this and I wouldn't agree with his statement in general.
MY ultimate response was in seeing this SPECIFICALLY attacked as sexist several times: "I think that cultural issues make up probably 95%. Genetic issues might only account for a very small percentage, but there are slight differences between the male brain VS female brain and there are also hormonal issues involved."
spliffmonkey said: "You're an idiot and a bigot! There is NO evidence to support any of your BS. You should be banned."
In response to a completely factual statement... Sick of living in a world where reactionaries freak out at any true statements just because it doesn't make them "feel" good.
Apple sold almost twenty million iPhones last quarter. Not sure how that is a disaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Have we heard any update to Android being activated on 350,000 devices per day? Has it increase, plateaued or dropped?
Android OS: 350,000 per day x 30 day = 9,000,000 per month
iPhone device: 18,600,000 per month ÷ 30 day = 620,000 per day
That’s almost double Android for a phone that over 6 month old and only comes from one vendor. I’d think that Android being free, being on dozens of vendors and having more models come in a month than Apple has products they’d be flying well past that.
Well... I will say that I wasn't the one that said this. Reading back through the thread, I'm sure I did overgeneralize... but I don't think anyone can say there wasn't over the top political correctness going on (again, not from everybody).
The real problem is that the conversation started WITHOUT anything remotely sexist. I mean, not even close... mstone made an observation that would have been obvious to Stevie Wonder. Post #18, Prof. Peabody started with the "sexist" comments without any basis. I'll admit, I missed Apple ]['s first comment on this and I wouldn't agree with his statement in general.
MY ultimate response was in seeing this SPECIFICALLY attacked as sexist several times: "I think that cultural issues make up probably 95%. Genetic issues might only account for a very small percentage, but there are slight differences between the male brain VS female brain and there are also hormonal issues involved."
Sick of living in a world where reactionaries freak out at any factually correct statements just because it doesn't make them "feel" good.
1) I would have ignored mstone’s more mild comment, but Apple ][ drove it out of the park (a reference to a sport that woman can’t play and that “coloreds” weren’t allowed to play not to long ago because of their genetic inferiority). See what I did there?
2) I have no concern for political correctitude. There is nothing in me that makes me care about the feelings of people for the use of certain words and terms. I do, however, care about the implied meaning behind people’s words. IOW, it is about the mindset, not the language that I wholeheartedly know is incorrect and leads to prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination within a society. As an armchair linguist and anthropologist I can source more than enough examples.
3) What he wrote in the text you quote above is innocuous for the most part but his other words give a deeper meaning to that statement. He’s making some quasi-sciency claims with a made up numerical value and then inserting that into a claim that women are inferior to men per his other comments. That is not science! That is not true!
4) I will refrain from a invoking Godwin’s law despite it actually being apropos in this case and will instead refer to 19th century German physician Johann Friedrich Blumenbach who basically did the same thing with his “degeneration theory” that lead to the various “races”. Basically, Blumenbach did comparative studies of human skulls and found that a woman's skull from the Caucasus mountains between Turkey and Russia was the most beautiful as it was more symmetrical and round, thus indicating nature's ideal form and God's original creation. Based on this criteria, he concluded these mountains were the origin of the first humans, and he concluded that all light-skinned peoples belonged to the same race, thus dropping Linnaeus' "European" classification and replacing it with Caucasian. It’s odd that we use that Caucasian as the “PC” term when it arose from a religious base wrapped in bigotry, but I don’t see it as an issue since it’s just a s series of letters and tonal vibrations without the original implication for nearly everyone.
1) I would have ignored mstone?s more mold comment, but Apple ][ drove it out of the park (a sports reference to a sport that woman can?t play and that ?colored? weren?t allowed to play not to long ago because of their genetic inferiority). See what I did there?
2) I have no concern for political correctitude. There is nothing in me that makes me care about the feelings of people for the use of certain words and terms. I do, however, care about the implied meaning behind people?s words. IOW, it is about the mindset, not the language that I wholeheartedly know is incorrect and leads to prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination within a society. As an armchair linguist and anthropologist I can source more than enough examples.
3) What he wrote in the text you quote above is innocuous for the most part but his other words give a deeper meaning to that statement. He?s making some quasi-sciency claims with a made up numerical value and then inserting that into a claim that women are inferior to men per his other comments. That is not science! That is not true!
4) I will refrain from a invoking Godwin?s law despite it actually being apropos in this case and will instead refer to 19th century German physician Johann Friedrich Blumenbach who basically did the same thing with his ?degeneration theory? that lead to the various ?races?. Basically, Blumenbach did comparative studies of human skulls and found that a woman's skull from the Caucasus mountains between Turkey and Russia was the most beautiful as it was more symmetrical and round, thus indicating natural's ideal form and God's original creation. Based on this criteria, he concluded these mountains were the origin of the first humans, and he concluded that all light-skinned peoples belonged to the same race, thus dropping Linnaeus' "European" classification and replacing it with Caucasian. It?s odd that we use that Caucasian as the ?PC? term when it arose from a religious base wrapped in bigotry, but I don?t see it as an issue since it?s just a s series of letters and tonal vibrations without the original implication for nearly everyone.
Agree on all points. re: #3. You're absolutely right and I missed that because I hadn't seen his first statement. I was trying to read about the white iPhone 4 and the conversation devolved quickly to the point where I skimmed too much of it and missed the critical post.
Also... I don't think Godwin's Law is necessary anyway because the posters that set me over the top have moved on anyway.
Don?t pretend to use science to hide behind your bigotry and hate.
You sound a lot like Thomas Jefferson in your rationalization as to why your fellow human being is inferior to you by design.
"Comparing them by their faculties of memory, reason, and imagination, it appears to me, that in memory they are equal to the whites; in reason much inferior, as I think one [black] could scarcely be found capable of tracing and comprehending the investigations of Euclid; and that in imagination they are dull, tasteless, and anomalous.
He goes on to praise their musical talent, but not in poetry and math where they were inferior by design. That they were lazy. That they lacked logic skills and they smelled bad.
Then there was the brilliant, young, female poet Phillis Wheatley. She was the first African American poet and the first African-American woman whose writings were published. Jefferson stated she wasn?t a poet at all, she just mimic the things she had already read simply because he couldn?t bring himself to believe this girl was capable of such things.
You disgust me!
And if Thomas Jefferson lived Today it would be disgusting. He lived during the days when Slavery was a long tradition of suppression where one race felt intellectually superior to another.
To compare the moral compass of 1770 or earlier to 2011 is embarrassing and myopic, not to mention mentally stunted and one looking to strengthen their position artificially by comparing a well respected philosopher whose impact has brought about a myriad of modern thoughts to being less than your own, all the while ignoring your advantage of > 200 years of human causality to stand high on your horse.
And if Thomas Jefferson lived Today it would be disgusting. He lived during the days when Slavery was a long tradition of suppression where one race felt intellectually superior to another.
To compare the moral compass of 1770 or earlier to 2011 is embarrassing and myopic, not to mention mentally stunted and one looking to strengthen their position artificially by comparing a well respected philosopher whose impact has brought about a myriad of modern thoughts to being less than your own, all the while ignoring your advantage of > 200 years of human causality to stand high on your horse.
There are plenty during his time and long before that didn?t feel their fellow man was inferior by design. It?s disgusting throughout the history of man not just today. Morality is a choice, not a convenience of the times.
Wow! Can we close this thread? This thing has really gone off the rails.
Close it? I was kinda enjoying it. Amazing how the white iPhone can bring out the idiot in so many people. For added entertainment I would love to hear from the people who suddenly decided to share their 'learned' views on women generally feel the choice of a white iPhone (or cover for that matter, Solip ;-)) might reflect on a man's technical abilities, his maleness or his fashion sense. C'mon you self professed women lovers... let's hear it.
Well, I was going to say you were making a lot of sense, but then you admitted to a white cover and I got all confused. White is one thing but a cover? I thought only girls used covers. My prejudices are getting all mixed up.
Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist...the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist... \
Comments
I am actually curious to know the honest answer to this.
Is it sexist to even ASK if differences between men and women and their take on fashion have any place in the conversation about how and who the white iPhone will sell to?
Is it sexist to even ASK if differences between men and women and their take on fashion have any place in the conversation about how and who the white iPhone will sell to?
As I said in my original post that sparked this firestorm, I think fashionable women with plenty disposable income will opt to buy the white iPhone regardless of whether their contract is up or not. Those more frugal will wait. Either case the white iPhone is slightly more effeminate than the black, in my opinion. But it is still an iPhone. Since a number of guys here have stated that they think the white iPhone is sexy, attractive, stylish, etc. they are probably not republicans, nor am I.
Embarrassing? Try a fu**ing disaster.
As I said in my original post that sparked this firestorm, I think fashionable women with plenty disposable income will opt to buy the white iPhone regardless of whether their contract is up or not. Those more frugal will wait. Either case the white iPhone is slightly more effeminate than the black, in my opinion. But it is still an iPhone. Since a number of guys here have stated that they think the white iPhone is sexy, attractive, stylish, etc. they are probably not republicans.
Well done mstone...
I tend to agree. iPhone 3, my wife got the white one and I got the black for many of the reasons discussed when this thread was on track. Straight up fashion difference.
re: white iPhone 4: I'd think it wouldn't really drive new sales (much) but the disposable income women that DO care about fashion could switch up the black iPhone 4 to a white one. Should provide SOME help to what's going to be a very solid quarter anyway.
Most people came here to talk about the release of the white iPhone.
Seems there were a whole lot of people wearing the "PC God" badge on their sleeve. It's like they were checking in to foursquare to make sure they got enough in to get their "PC Badge" of the day. So... glad to see you finally started to crack down on this now.
You need to learn what PC means. No one is claiming there isn?t genetic differences. There are genetic differences between siblings, regardless of sex, even if they have the same parents.
The issue take is with the claim of inferiority based on a general difference.
[]Most women are totally clueless when it comes to computers. There might be a few exceptions to that rule, but overall, females need help from males when it comes to any computer related issues beyond the simplest of problems. This may be due to cultural issues or perhaps due to genetics. Either way, most women are worse at computers than men are.
You want to explain to us how being female means you are innately clueless when to comes to computers? You want to explain to us how something can be canon of one?s biology but also have exceptions when it?s the foundation for their inferiority? You want to explain to us why females need help from males in anything technical?
BTW, female and male refers to sex, a physical difference, whilst gender is solely a cultural manifest. There are plenty of cultural variations that are opposite of the crap you bigots are spewing.
PS: Before you start making points on this you should probably read up on the subject a bit. Check out The Mismeasure of Man is a 1981 book written by the now deceased Harvard paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould. He talks in detail about how anthropologists have spent centuries measuring cranial capacities as a way of determining the intelligent of a species and ?races? to determine which was more superior. The conclusion is that diet can make a big difference in the cranial size and a smaller capacity doesn?t infer a smaller capacity for intelligence among a species.
Apple sold almost twenty million iPhones last quarter. Not sure how that is a disaster.
Have we heard any update to Android being activated on 350,000 devices per day? Has it increase, plateaued or dropped?edit: That makes more sense. Thanks, Jacksons.
Even with adding all iOS-based devices it’s still only at 310,000 per day.
You need to learn what PC means. No one is claiming there isn’t genetic differences. There are genetic differences between siblings, regardless of sex, even if they have the same parents.
The issue take is with the claim of inferiority based on a general difference.
You want to explain to us how being female means you are innately clueless when to comes to computers? You want to explain to us how something can be canon of one’s biology but also have exceptions when it’s the foundation for their inferiority? You want to explain to us why females need help from males in anything technical?
Well... I will say that I wasn't the one that said this. Reading back through the thread, I'm sure I did overgeneralize... but I don't think anyone can say there wasn't over the top political correctness going on (again, not from everybody).
The real problem is that the conversation started WITHOUT anything remotely sexist. I mean, not even close... mstone made an observation that would have been obvious to Stevie Wonder. Post #18, Prof. Peabody started with the "sexist" comments without any basis. I'll admit, I missed Apple ]['s first comment on this and I wouldn't agree with his statement in general.
MY ultimate response was in seeing this SPECIFICALLY attacked as sexist several times: "I think that cultural issues make up probably 95%. Genetic issues might only account for a very small percentage, but there are slight differences between the male brain VS female brain and there are also hormonal issues involved."
spliffmonkey said: "You're an idiot and a bigot! There is NO evidence to support any of your BS. You should be banned."
In response to a completely factual statement... Sick of living in a world where reactionaries freak out at any true statements just because it doesn't make them "feel" good.
Originally Posted by TBell
Apple sold almost twenty million iPhones last quarter. Not sure how that is a disaster.
Have we heard any update to Android being activated on 350,000 devices per day? Has it increase, plateaued or dropped?That’s almost double Android for a phone that over 6 month old and only comes from one vendor. I’d think that Android being free, being on dozens of vendors and having more models come in a month than Apple has products they’d be flying well past that.
uh!? Isn't 20,000,000 per quarter:
20,000,000 * 4 / 365 = 219,178 per day?
Well... I will say that I wasn't the one that said this. Reading back through the thread, I'm sure I did overgeneralize... but I don't think anyone can say there wasn't over the top political correctness going on (again, not from everybody).
The real problem is that the conversation started WITHOUT anything remotely sexist. I mean, not even close... mstone made an observation that would have been obvious to Stevie Wonder. Post #18, Prof. Peabody started with the "sexist" comments without any basis. I'll admit, I missed Apple ]['s first comment on this and I wouldn't agree with his statement in general.
MY ultimate response was in seeing this SPECIFICALLY attacked as sexist several times: "I think that cultural issues make up probably 95%. Genetic issues might only account for a very small percentage, but there are slight differences between the male brain VS female brain and there are also hormonal issues involved."
Sick of living in a world where reactionaries freak out at any factually correct statements just because it doesn't make them "feel" good.
1) I would have ignored mstone’s more mild comment, but Apple ][ drove it out of the park (a reference to a sport that woman can’t play and that “coloreds” weren’t allowed to play not to long ago because of their genetic inferiority). See what I did there?
2) I have no concern for political correctitude. There is nothing in me that makes me care about the feelings of people for the use of certain words and terms. I do, however, care about the implied meaning behind people’s words. IOW, it is about the mindset, not the language that I wholeheartedly know is incorrect and leads to prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination within a society. As an armchair linguist and anthropologist I can source more than enough examples.
3) What he wrote in the text you quote above is innocuous for the most part but his other words give a deeper meaning to that statement. He’s making some quasi-sciency claims with a made up numerical value and then inserting that into a claim that women are inferior to men per his other comments. That is not science! That is not true!
4) I will refrain from a invoking Godwin’s law despite it actually being apropos in this case and will instead refer to 19th century German physician Johann Friedrich Blumenbach who basically did the same thing with his “degeneration theory” that lead to the various “races”. Basically, Blumenbach did comparative studies of human skulls and found that a woman's skull from the Caucasus mountains between Turkey and Russia was the most beautiful as it was more symmetrical and round, thus indicating nature's ideal form and God's original creation. Based on this criteria, he concluded these mountains were the origin of the first humans, and he concluded that all light-skinned peoples belonged to the same race, thus dropping Linnaeus' "European" classification and replacing it with Caucasian. It’s odd that we use that Caucasian as the “PC” term when it arose from a religious base wrapped in bigotry, but I don’t see it as an issue since it’s just a s series of letters and tonal vibrations without the original implication for nearly everyone.
1) I would have ignored mstone?s more mold comment, but Apple ][ drove it out of the park (a sports reference to a sport that woman can?t play and that ?colored? weren?t allowed to play not to long ago because of their genetic inferiority). See what I did there?
2) I have no concern for political correctitude. There is nothing in me that makes me care about the feelings of people for the use of certain words and terms. I do, however, care about the implied meaning behind people?s words. IOW, it is about the mindset, not the language that I wholeheartedly know is incorrect and leads to prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination within a society. As an armchair linguist and anthropologist I can source more than enough examples.
3) What he wrote in the text you quote above is innocuous for the most part but his other words give a deeper meaning to that statement. He?s making some quasi-sciency claims with a made up numerical value and then inserting that into a claim that women are inferior to men per his other comments. That is not science! That is not true!
4) I will refrain from a invoking Godwin?s law despite it actually being apropos in this case and will instead refer to 19th century German physician Johann Friedrich Blumenbach who basically did the same thing with his ?degeneration theory? that lead to the various ?races?. Basically, Blumenbach did comparative studies of human skulls and found that a woman's skull from the Caucasus mountains between Turkey and Russia was the most beautiful as it was more symmetrical and round, thus indicating natural's ideal form and God's original creation. Based on this criteria, he concluded these mountains were the origin of the first humans, and he concluded that all light-skinned peoples belonged to the same race, thus dropping Linnaeus' "European" classification and replacing it with Caucasian. It?s odd that we use that Caucasian as the ?PC? term when it arose from a religious base wrapped in bigotry, but I don?t see it as an issue since it?s just a s series of letters and tonal vibrations without the original implication for nearly everyone.
Agree on all points. re: #3. You're absolutely right and I missed that because I hadn't seen his first statement. I was trying to read about the white iPhone 4 and the conversation devolved quickly to the point where I skimmed too much of it and missed the critical post.
Also... I don't think Godwin's Law is necessary anyway because the posters that set me over the top have moved on anyway.
... I love smart women....
Are you saying most are stupid?
I am queuing up on April 27 for a white iPhone 4 for my girlfriend. I am going to keep using my white iPhone 3s.
Don?t pretend to use science to hide behind your bigotry and hate.
You sound a lot like Thomas Jefferson in your rationalization as to why your fellow human being is inferior to you by design.He goes on to praise their musical talent, but not in poetry and math where they were inferior by design. That they were lazy. That they lacked logic skills and they smelled bad.
Then there was the brilliant, young, female poet Phillis Wheatley. She was the first African American poet and the first African-American woman whose writings were published. Jefferson stated she wasn?t a poet at all, she just mimic the things she had already read simply because he couldn?t bring himself to believe this girl was capable of such things.
You disgust me!
And if Thomas Jefferson lived Today it would be disgusting. He lived during the days when Slavery was a long tradition of suppression where one race felt intellectually superior to another.
To compare the moral compass of 1770 or earlier to 2011 is embarrassing and myopic, not to mention mentally stunted and one looking to strengthen their position artificially by comparing a well respected philosopher whose impact has brought about a myriad of modern thoughts to being less than your own, all the while ignoring your advantage of > 200 years of human causality to stand high on your horse.
Are you saying most are stupid?
I am queuing up on April 27 for a white iPhone 4 for my girlfriend. I am going to keep using my white iPhone 3s.
No, intelligence is a bell curve. You are obviously very low on the left side of it.
And if Thomas Jefferson lived Today it would be disgusting. He lived during the days when Slavery was a long tradition of suppression where one race felt intellectually superior to another.
To compare the moral compass of 1770 or earlier to 2011 is embarrassing and myopic, not to mention mentally stunted and one looking to strengthen their position artificially by comparing a well respected philosopher whose impact has brought about a myriad of modern thoughts to being less than your own, all the while ignoring your advantage of > 200 years of human causality to stand high on your horse.
There are plenty during his time and long before that didn?t feel their fellow man was inferior by design. It?s disgusting throughout the history of man not just today. Morality is a choice, not a convenience of the times.
Wow! Can we close this thread? This thing has really gone off the rails.
Close it? I was kinda enjoying it. Amazing how the white iPhone can bring out the idiot in so many people. For added entertainment I would love to hear from the people who suddenly decided to share their 'learned' views on women generally feel the choice of a white iPhone (or cover for that matter, Solip ;-)) might reflect on a man's technical abilities, his maleness or his fashion sense. C'mon you self professed women lovers... let's hear it.
Amazing how the white iPhone can bring out the idiot in so many people.
Don?t blame whitey.
Don?t blame whitey.
Well, I was going to say you were making a lot of sense, but then you admitted to a white cover and I got all confused. White is one thing but a cover? I thought only girls used covers. My prejudices are getting all mixed up.