You're right about that. MS will probably be getting a lot of resistance from their own customers, who happen to be windows users. Nobody comes even close to having as good a touch surface interaction as Apple has in their laptops, the magic trackpad, the iphone, the ipod touch and the ipad. Apple users know what great multitouch is like. Apple users have been used to the best multitouch surfaces and trackpads for years. One area in which all other tablets pale in comparison to the iPad, is the silky, smooth and very responsive feel of the UI. Using other tablets is like using something made in a previous century.
Windows users don't have a clue about multitouch, unless they happen to own an iphone or maybe an ipad on the side. And now, MS is going to be releasing an OS built around touch and shoving it down the throats of all those users who are still sitting there with their ancient mice.
There's a lot of truth in this.
I think the story after Windows 8 comes out is going to be how many people use it and how many people clicked the switch to go back to "regular" Windows underneath immediately? Some PCs will be sold without multi-touch so we know that the multi-touch part will be easily turned off.
I hope Apple do either announce a release on a disc or provide some kind of Apple Store upgrade facility. My access to the internet is both slow and extremely bandwidth limited (no, I can't move house to get better access, so don't suggest it), so I simply can't download something as big as Lion.
I hope Apple do either announce a release on a disc or provide some kind of Apple Store upgrade facility. My access to the internet is both slow and extremely bandwidth limited (no, I can't move house to get better access, so don't suggest it), so I simply can't download something as big as Lion.
1) If you can get to an Apple Store you can just upgrade via their network.
2) If you are savvy enough to burn a DVD of an installation file you are savvy enough to follow the very, very simple instructions that have been out for 6 months on creating a bootable version of Mac OS X Lion, either burning to a SL-DVD, flash drive, or some other partition on an HDD/SSD.
I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.
Wow, those screens have nothing to do with each other. One is a strange 'home page' that looks totally out of place on a PC screen, the other is giving an overview of all apps that you currently have running.
Or did you think the Microsoft 'boxes' UI thing is somehow representing Word documents that you currently are working on? Because based on the demo MS released, doing that dropped you out of that UI entirely and back to Windows, even on a tablet. And that's pretty nasty.
However, since you asked - I'd say the Mac screen looks more advanced, though I don't like how they did the desktop background on it.
So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.
I was really excited when the Magic Trackpad came out and bought one immediately thinking I would replace my Trackball, but I returned it about a week later. I realized that I seldom use my tracking device with it on the actual desk. The Trackball fits my hand so perfectly I can palm the thing and use it like a remote control. I know I'll probably end up getting a Track pad again at some point in time, but I'm just curious to know how much useability Lion will have for those not using a Trackpad. I mean will the added features of Lion, like Mission Control, even be accessible through other means or will multi-touch gestures be the only means of navigating much of these things?
So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.
I was really excited when the Magic Trackpad came out and bought one immediately thinking I would replace my Trackball, but I returned it about a week later. I realized that I seldom use my tracking device with it on the actual desk. The Trackball fits my hand so perfectly I can palm the thing and use it like a remote control. I know I'll probably end up getting a Track pad again at some point in time, but I'm just curious to know how much useability Lion will have for those not using a Trackpad. I mean will the added features of Lion, like Mission Control, even be accessible through other means or will multi-touch gestures be the only means of navigating much of these things?
So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but a biopsy revealed that your mouse was suffering from a malignant trackpad growth that was extremely advanced. We operated for hours and used all our capabilities, but we were unable to save it
Do you happen to know how your mouse felt about component donation?
Right, but isn't that what phones are for? Why do I need "glance and go" on my laptop or desktop computer? Do I whip out my laptop every time I want to check the weather or see if I have a new tweet?
I'm really not quite understanding what MS is doing here. Apple makes a clear distinction between iOS and OS X because they run on very different hardware that engenders different UI solutions. MS allows itself to fall way behind on touch interfaces, then abruptly goes all in by slapping a "touch friendly" UI on an OS that's likely to be mostly run on devices that strongly mitigate against that solution.
And then they further muddy the waters by declaring that their phones will continue to run a different but similar OS while reserving Win 8 for tablets.
Apple: purpose built mobile iOS on mobile devices, OS X on laptops and desktops. MS: WM7 on phones, Win8 with a touch skin on tablets, Win8 with a touch skin that probably will get quickly dismissed to get at Win7 on laptops and desktops.
I don't think that's "efficient" at all, and "glance and go" makes no sense whatsoever for a desktop UI.
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but a biopsy revealed that your mouse was suffering from a malignant trackpad growth that was extremely advanced. We operated for hours and used all our capabilities, but we were unable to save it
Do you happen to know how your mouse felt about component donation?
Funny! No, I won't be giving up my trackball. Actually, when the magic mouse first came out I was seriously considering gutting the button/scroll wheel/palm rest side of the trackball and transplanting a magic mouse into that space, giving me everything I love about the thumb operated trackball, and adding to it a touch sensitive surface. The dimensions of the magic mouse/trackball are almost perfect for this operation. Or maybe logitech will just release their trackball where the entire right side is a multi-touch surface. Hey I can dream right?
What it's doing is giving you an customized overview of the various things in your life. It's sweet that I can see my next appointment without launching the calendar, new emails without launching mail, weather without launching weather, etc.
It's all very efficient... "glance and go"
You're right on spot. Only I don't know why Apple still uses the term "The Finder". Maybe "Digital Pallette" would be make more sense.
But that harks back to the early days of Finder, Chooser, Desktop, etc. We actually had a guy in our office who could never figure out how to get his (very early) Mac (B&W 1MB) to find the Network Printer. We must have shown him 300x how to do it.
We finally taped a hand-written note to his MAC which said "DON'T BE A LOOSER, USE YOUR CHOOSER"
I wonder what the release date will be. And I'm still curious about getting an OS without a DVD. I'm really looking forward to Lion. I switched from a mouse to a Magic Trackpad in anticipation of this release (and because my MX Revolution was finally dying).
As has been pointed out before, once you've downloaded the installer, you can burn it to a DVD and file it away with your other backup DVDs. You can also use this new DVD to install Lion on other Macs in your home or business.
I too bought a Magic Trackpad in anticipation of Lion. I'm curious about how others are making the transition from Mouse to Trackpad.
I find that after a few days' of use, I'm using the trackpad about 60% of the time and the mouse 40%. Why? I still haven't mastered the double-click on the TP, I still seem to delete multiple files in my RSS reader because the cursor is hovering over the "delete" button and my fingers are hovering above the TP and occasionally one get lazy and accidentally taps the TP surface, initiating a click on the delete button. I've also been totally befuddled on getting the right-click to work even though I've set what I think is the right gesture in the Prefs.
Any others having similar or other types of transition troubles?
Haha. Windows 8 looks like it's made for really stupid and simple people. It just looks like a bunch of big widgets shaped like tiles on your desktop, providing real useful info such as the weather.
Until you mentioned this I couldn't put my finger on where I'd seen that "tiled" display before.
I remember back in the System 8 and OS 9 cays there was something called IIRC the Simple Finder was for youngsters and had no text but these huge icons all lined up like W8 does.
If we are a developer and we install the GM, will we have to worry about Lion on release? Or do we already have the release version?
If Lion follows what Snow Leo did, the GM should be good to go. I got the Snow Leo GM through their program and it was what was running my mac for quite a while. When an update came out (10.6.1) Software Update alerted me and updated the GM software that was installed.
I would hope they will also have Lion available on physical media shortly after release on the App store. Not sure how you can access and upgrade from the App store if you intend to format and do a clean install. I personally would never upgrade without reformatting the drive.
This begs the question of where you data are stored if you want to import them via Migration Assistant?
The solution, of course, would be to use CCC or SuperDuper to clone your current boot drive onto a backup, including your recently-downloaded Lion installer. Then boot from your new backup, launch the Lion installer, and specify which disk you wish to install it on. At some point you'll be able to access the Disk Utility app from within the installed (like on all other installers) at which time you can erase the target disk. Actually this is a good idea for another reason: Lion will create a small partition on the erased drive and install a "recovery" routine there.
Your idea of doing a clean install is a good one, one which many of us old hands perform.
The OS X Lion Up-to-Date upgrade will be available at no additional charge via the Mac App Store to all customers who purchased a qualifying new Mac system from Apple or an Apple Authorized Reseller on or afterJune 6, 2011. Users must request their Up-to-Date upgrade within 30 days of purchase of their Mac computer. Customers who purchase a qualifying Mac between June 6, 2011 and the date when Lion is available in the Mac App Store will have 30 days from Lion?s official release date to make a request.
When Lion becomes available in July, come back to this page for details on how to request your copy of Lion.
Is it just me or is this confusing? It first says it's for Mac purchases made starting June 6 and that you have 30 days from your purchase date to request your free copy of Lion. It also says you can't make the request until Lion becomes available. This would imply Lion will be available on July 6.
Then it says purchases made between June 6 and Lion's release date have 30 days from Lion's release date to request a free copy. So if I purchased a Mac on June 6 I have until July 6 but if I purchased a Mac on June 7 I've got until 30 days after Lion's release to request a copy?
Comments
You're right about that. MS will probably be getting a lot of resistance from their own customers, who happen to be windows users. Nobody comes even close to having as good a touch surface interaction as Apple has in their laptops, the magic trackpad, the iphone, the ipod touch and the ipad. Apple users know what great multitouch is like. Apple users have been used to the best multitouch surfaces and trackpads for years. One area in which all other tablets pale in comparison to the iPad, is the silky, smooth and very responsive feel of the UI. Using other tablets is like using something made in a previous century.
Windows users don't have a clue about multitouch, unless they happen to own an iphone or maybe an ipad on the side. And now, MS is going to be releasing an OS built around touch and shoving it down the throats of all those users who are still sitting there with their ancient mice.
There's a lot of truth in this.
I think the story after Windows 8 comes out is going to be how many people use it and how many people clicked the switch to go back to "regular" Windows underneath immediately? Some PCs will be sold without multi-touch so we know that the multi-touch part will be easily turned off.
Which looks more advanced?
or this?
I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.
I've had this since 10.1 It's called widgets, and below those I actually have a full featured OS.
I hope Apple do either announce a release on a disc or provide some kind of Apple Store upgrade facility. My access to the internet is both slow and extremely bandwidth limited (no, I can't move house to get better access, so don't suggest it), so I simply can't download something as big as Lion.
1) If you can get to an Apple Store you can just upgrade via their network.
2) If you are savvy enough to burn a DVD of an installation file you are savvy enough to follow the very, very simple instructions that have been out for 6 months on creating a bootable version of Mac OS X Lion, either burning to a SL-DVD, flash drive, or some other partition on an HDD/SSD.
Which looks more advanced?
...
I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.
Wow, those screens have nothing to do with each other. One is a strange 'home page' that looks totally out of place on a PC screen, the other is giving an overview of all apps that you currently have running.
Or did you think the Microsoft 'boxes' UI thing is somehow representing Word documents that you currently are working on? Because based on the demo MS released, doing that dropped you out of that UI entirely and back to Windows, even on a tablet. And that's pretty nasty.
However, since you asked - I'd say the Mac screen looks more advanced, though I don't like how they did the desktop background on it.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...s/devices/7365
I was really excited when the Magic Trackpad came out and bought one immediately thinking I would replace my Trackball, but I returned it about a week later. I realized that I seldom use my tracking device with it on the actual desk. The Trackball fits my hand so perfectly I can palm the thing and use it like a remote control. I know I'll probably end up getting a Track pad again at some point in time, but I'm just curious to know how much useability Lion will have for those not using a Trackpad. I mean will the added features of Lion, like Mission Control, even be accessible through other means or will multi-touch gestures be the only means of navigating much of these things?
So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...s/devices/7365
I was really excited when the Magic Trackpad came out and bought one immediately thinking I would replace my Trackball, but I returned it about a week later. I realized that I seldom use my tracking device with it on the actual desk. The Trackball fits my hand so perfectly I can palm the thing and use it like a remote control. I know I'll probably end up getting a Track pad again at some point in time, but I'm just curious to know how much useability Lion will have for those not using a Trackpad. I mean will the added features of Lion, like Mission Control, even be accessible through other means or will multi-touch gestures be the only means of navigating much of these things?
Hot corners and assignable key combinations.
So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...s/devices/7365
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but a biopsy revealed that your mouse was suffering from a malignant trackpad growth that was extremely advanced. We operated for hours and used all our capabilities, but we were unable to save it
Do you happen to know how your mouse felt about component donation?
Right, but isn't that what phones are for? Why do I need "glance and go" on my laptop or desktop computer? Do I whip out my laptop every time I want to check the weather or see if I have a new tweet?
I'm really not quite understanding what MS is doing here. Apple makes a clear distinction between iOS and OS X because they run on very different hardware that engenders different UI solutions. MS allows itself to fall way behind on touch interfaces, then abruptly goes all in by slapping a "touch friendly" UI on an OS that's likely to be mostly run on devices that strongly mitigate against that solution.
And then they further muddy the waters by declaring that their phones will continue to run a different but similar OS while reserving Win 8 for tablets.
Apple: purpose built mobile iOS on mobile devices, OS X on laptops and desktops. MS: WM7 on phones, Win8 with a touch skin on tablets, Win8 with a touch skin that probably will get quickly dismissed to get at Win7 on laptops and desktops.
I don't think that's "efficient" at all, and "glance and go" makes no sense whatsoever for a desktop UI.
I think you just nailed it.
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but a biopsy revealed that your mouse was suffering from a malignant trackpad growth that was extremely advanced. We operated for hours and used all our capabilities, but we were unable to save it
Do you happen to know how your mouse felt about component donation?
My IQ is 143 and I think it's awesome
What it's doing is giving you an customized overview of the various things in your life. It's sweet that I can see my next appointment without launching the calendar, new emails without launching mail, weather without launching weather, etc.
It's all very efficient... "glance and go"
You're right on spot. Only I don't know why Apple still uses the term "The Finder". Maybe "Digital Pallette" would be make more sense.
But that harks back to the early days of Finder, Chooser, Desktop, etc. We actually had a guy in our office who could never figure out how to get his (very early) Mac (B&W 1MB) to find the Network Printer. We must have shown him 300x how to do it.
We finally taped a hand-written note to his MAC which said "DON'T BE A LOOSER, USE YOUR CHOOSER"
I wonder what the release date will be. And I'm still curious about getting an OS without a DVD. I'm really looking forward to Lion. I switched from a mouse to a Magic Trackpad in anticipation of this release (and because my MX Revolution was finally dying).
As has been pointed out before, once you've downloaded the installer, you can burn it to a DVD and file it away with your other backup DVDs. You can also use this new DVD to install Lion on other Macs in your home or business.
I too bought a Magic Trackpad in anticipation of Lion. I'm curious about how others are making the transition from Mouse to Trackpad.
I find that after a few days' of use, I'm using the trackpad about 60% of the time and the mouse 40%. Why? I still haven't mastered the double-click on the TP, I still seem to delete multiple files in my RSS reader because the cursor is hovering over the "delete" button and my fingers are hovering above the TP and occasionally one get lazy and accidentally taps the TP surface, initiating a click on the delete button. I've also been totally befuddled on getting the right-click to work even though I've set what I think is the right gesture in the Prefs.
Any others having similar or other types of transition troubles?
Haha. Windows 8 looks like it's made for really stupid and simple people. It just looks like a bunch of big widgets shaped like tiles on your desktop, providing real useful info such as the weather.
Until you mentioned this I couldn't put my finger on where I'd seen that "tiled" display before.
I remember back in the System 8 and OS 9 cays there was something called IIRC the Simple Finder was for youngsters and had no text but these huge icons all lined up like W8 does.
My IQ is 143 and I think it's awesome
So are you a member of the Four Sigma Society? (If you have to google it, you don't belong!)
If we are a developer and we install the GM, will we have to worry about Lion on release? Or do we already have the release version?
If Lion follows what Snow Leo did, the GM should be good to go. I got the Snow Leo GM through their program and it was what was running my mac for quite a while. When an update came out (10.6.1) Software Update alerted me and updated the GM software that was installed.
Should be a piece of cake.
I would hope they will also have Lion available on physical media shortly after release on the App store. Not sure how you can access and upgrade from the App store if you intend to format and do a clean install. I personally would never upgrade without reformatting the drive.
This begs the question of where you data are stored if you want to import them via Migration Assistant?
The solution, of course, would be to use CCC or SuperDuper to clone your current boot drive onto a backup, including your recently-downloaded Lion installer. Then boot from your new backup, launch the Lion installer, and specify which disk you wish to install it on. At some point you'll be able to access the Disk Utility app from within the installed (like on all other installers) at which time you can erase the target disk. Actually this is a good idea for another reason: Lion will create a small partition on the erased drive and install a "recovery" routine there.
Your idea of doing a clean install is a good one, one which many of us old hands perform.
The OS X Lion Up-to-Date upgrade will be available at no additional charge via the Mac App Store to all customers who purchased a qualifying new Mac system from Apple or an Apple Authorized Reseller on or after June 6, 2011. Users must request their Up-to-Date upgrade within 30 days of purchase of their Mac computer. Customers who purchase a qualifying Mac between June 6, 2011 and the date when Lion is available in the Mac App Store will have 30 days from Lion?s official release date to make a request.
When Lion becomes available in July, come back to this page for details on how to request your copy of Lion.
Is it just me or is this confusing? It first says it's for Mac purchases made starting June 6 and that you have 30 days from your purchase date to request your free copy of Lion. It also says you can't make the request until Lion becomes available. This would imply Lion will be available on July 6.
Then it says purchases made between June 6 and Lion's release date have 30 days from Lion's release date to request a free copy. So if I purchased a Mac on June 6 I have until July 6 but if I purchased a Mac on June 7 I've got until 30 days after Lion's release to request a copy?
WTF? It's late so it's probably just me.
Which looks more advanced?
or this?
I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.
Your troll-fu is strong. You managed to derail a thread about the GM of Lion into a Lion UI vs Win 8 UI match.
- Jasen.
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