Perhaps an example of what you're talking about might be that Apple have added the launchpad, but still don't have a command that removes an installed app and all of its components.
If the application in question came as a package (pkg), you can completely remove it with the following two commands:
Code:
sudo pkgutil --unlink com.Vendor.Application
sudo pkgutil --forget com.Vendor.Application
Of course, you have to use the right package name.
Does anyone know how this scenario will work in the near future? It's one I've been mulling over for several days now.
I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro (that came with Snow Leopard as the pre-installed OS) that I might sell soon and replace with a mid-2011 MacBook Air. In the meantime, I plan to upgrade the MacBook Pro to Lion. When I sell it, I plan to format/restore it for the next owner (of course). I would like to restore it with Lion for the new owner, as this would be the latest OS that I will have loaded onto the machine myself - well within the rights afforded by my $29.99 Mac App Store purchase. Let's say that something happens with the machine (while in possession of the new owner) and that person needs to restore it with a new install of Lion. Could I legally pass along a bootable copy of Lion with the machine and would it still be legit? Would it be "legal" under the Mac App Store's policy?
It seems that before (when you bought an upgrade to OS X on disc) the OS license could be tied to the machine by simply passing the disc along to the new owner. This time around, it seems more like the OS purchase is tied to the user's Apple ID instead of the machine.
Does anyone know how this scenario will work in the near future? It's one I've been mulling over for several days now.
I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro (that came with Snow Leopard as the pre-installed OS) that I might sell soon and replace with a mid-2011 MacBook Air. In the meantime, I plan to upgrade the MacBook Pro to Lion. When I sell it, I plan to format/restore it for the next owner (of course). I would like to restore it with Lion for the new owner, as this would be the latest OS that I will have loaded onto the machine myself - well within the rights afforded by my $29.99 Mac App Store purchase. Let's say that something happens with the machine (while in possession of the new owner) and that person needs to restore it with a new install of Lion. Could I legally pass along a bootable copy of Lion with the machine and would it still be legit? Would it be "legal" under the Mac App Store's policy?
It seems that before (when you bought an upgrade to OS X on disc) the OS license could be tied to the machine by simply passing the disc along to the new owner. This time around, it seems more like the OS purchase is tied to the user's Apple ID instead of the machine.
In the United States, you would be protected by the SCOTUS ruling on backups. It could be argued that if you bought and installed Lion, then made a backup as permitted by the SCOTUS, that you would be obligated to either transfer the backup with the machine when selling it or destroy it. It would probably not be legal to keep your backup of the install image -- unless doing so is expressly permitted by Apple's license agreement, which I doubt.
In the United States, you would be protected by the SCOTUS ruling on backups. It could be argued that if you bought and installed Lion, then made a backup as permitted by the SCOTUS, that you would be obligated to either transfer the backup with the machine when selling it or destroy it. It would probably not be legal to keep your backup of the install image -- unless doing so is expressly permitted by Apple's license agreement, which I doubt.
First and foremost, I would like to thank you for your reply. It is much appreciated.
So, if I understand you correctly, I would be obligated to transfer a copy of the Lion image with the machine if I sold it to the person with Lion already installed? I personally feel that would be the right thing to do, but am I actually obligated? Maybe what you're saying is, according to this SCOTUS precedent, I would be legally obligated to no longer have a copy of the OS in my possession if the machine it was meant for transferred ownership. Keep in mind that it's not a single-machine license nor single physical copy (on a disc or USB drive) of Lion we're talking about here. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point.
If I also own a 27" iMac that I'm allowed to install a copy of Lion onto per the Mac App Store license agreement (which just so happens to be the case here) then I would be allowed to keep a backup of the Lion install image in my possession while also passing along an image of Lion with the MacBook Pro being sold, correct?
First and foremost, I would like to thank you for your reply. It is much appreciated.
So, if I understand you correctly, I would be obligated to transfer a copy of the Lion image with the machine if I sold it to the person with Lion already installed?
No, not necessarily. I'm writing that IF you make a backup copy of software you're licensed to run on that machine, then you probably need to either transfer the backup copy together with the machine or destroy the backup copy. Keeping the backup copy when selling the machine might be illegal in the US and some other jurisdictions. (In some non-US jurisdictions it might be illegal to make the backup copy in the first place, though I've never heard of this being enforced.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockarollr
I personally feel that would be the right thing to do, but am I actually obligated? Maybe what you're saying is, according to this SCOTUS precedent, I would be legally obligated to no longer have a copy of the OS in my possession if the machine it was meant for transferred ownership.
I mean it's not obvious what your legal basis for keeping the backup copy would be once you've sold the machine. However, see below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockarollr
If I also own a 27" iMac that I'm allowed to install a copy of Lion onto per the Mac App Store license agreement (which just so happens to be the case here) then I would be allowed to keep a backup of the Lion install image in my possession while also passing along an image of Lion with the MacBook Pro being sold, correct?
I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me. \
That statement is absurd. This is one of the biggest Mac OS updates to come in a very long time. You are very uninformed if you believe there is nothing compelling in Lion. There are improvements for just about every type of user; from the command line junky, to the document writer, to the game player, or the graphics designer. There are so man improvements that I can't take your statement seriously.
That statement is absurd. This is one of the biggest Mac OS updates to come in a very long time. You are very uninformed if you believe there is nothing compelling in Lion. There are improvements for just about every type of user; from the command line junky, to the document writer, to the game player, or the graphics designer. There are so man improvements that I can't take your statement seriously.
I don't disagree with you; in fact as a programmer I can see lots of potential in some of the new features in Lion. I am curious, as I haven't noticed much myself, of what the improvements in Lion for gaming are. Have they done any substantial work on the graphic drivers? They really, even for comparing OpenGL from OS X to Windows on the same card, quite a bit behind their Windows counterparts.
...There are improvements for just about every type of user.
You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar? Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop? The app store which I already have in SL?
And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...
How was I bitching about it exactly? I merely said I wouldn't be upgrading and then got attacked by a fanboy...
Maybe you're just a petty and superficial ass but your comments come across as trolling. Your posts in the thread keep asserting the same lame examples to assure everyone that all of Lion is crap.
Personally, I do not care for the look and feel of Address Book or iCal, and have removed LaunchPad from my Dock as soon as that was possible in Preview 2, but for me to say that these three things represent all of Lion or that Lion is not a worthy effort nor well worth the $30 cost would be a bald face lie. The fact is Lion is a brilliant update for any serious Mac OS user.
Your characterizations are just plain ignorant. This eu terraces take time to code for one. Beyond that many apps have to be almost completely rewritten to support many of the new features of OS/X and iCloud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra
You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar?
Another way to look at those interfaces is that they work really well for a large number of Apples users. In any event you seem to view things from the surface and don't even attempt a shallow understanding of what is being offered up.
Quote:
Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop?
Full screen mode is useless? Honestly you believe that.
Quote:
The app store which I already have in SL?
And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...
If you would actually take the time to look at the publically released information, that is the 250 new features Apple squawks about you might start to think a bit. You might even say to yourself gee what did they do to the system to enable those features.
In any event you seem to not realize what an operating system is for. It is not about the Apple supplied apps even if people expect them these days. What an OS does is enables the development of software through APIs. If you look at Lion in this regard it is a massive update. It builds upon the foundations first deployed in Snow Leopard to provide developers with a robust place to run their apps.
I'm not even sure where this idea that Operating System updates are all about the user software. Users run apps, apps come after the deployment of the OS.
Now maybe even after developers gave a shot at Lion you won't find any apps compelling on Lion. I suggest that you will be in a very very tiny minority.
Maybe you're just a petty and superficial ass but your comments come across as trolling.
The further he goes down this path the worst he looks. In fact he makes a superficial ass look useful to society.
Quote:
Your posts in the thread keep asserting the same lame examples to assure everyone that all of Lion is crap.
I don't think any major update can please everybody in all aspects of the update. I'm sure that each of us will take displeasure with a feature or two. The problem with this guy is that he apparently can't grasp that there is a lot of good in Lion nor that delivering this good took a lot of effort.
Quote:
Personally, I do not care for the look and feel of Address Book or iCal, and have removed LaunchPad from my Dock as soon as that was possible in Preview 2, but for me to say that these three things represent all of Lion or that Lion is not a worthy effort and well worth the $30 cost would be a bald face lie. The fact is Lion is a brilliant update for any serious Mac OS user.
That is pretty much my take also. Without going into details it is an impressive collection of new technologies and improvements to old ones.
You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar? Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop? The app store which I already have in SL?
And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...
The cutesy interfaces are certainly designed for the more casual users. What exactly is it you do? I really do feel there is something for everyone with Lion. Airdrop is pretty impressive and no other OS has something quite like it yet. Definitely useful. Cocoa support in Applescript applets is fantastic. Autosave fundamentally changes how you operate on a computer, and I for one cannot wait for it's appearance. Proper boolean searches across the Finder and all sorts of other apps is a great addition.
The ability to merge folders is finally here.
Full-screen apps in and of itself isn't that impressive, but how they've managed to make it seamless to switch between full screen apps or back to the desktop is ingenious. Launchpad, while I was a little "eh" initially, is truly a great way to manage your apps. Part of what makes it great is how quickly you can get at it. The new Mail is a huge improvement as far as usability and readability goes over the last one. If you're running on a newer laptop, it cannot be put into words how effective the multitouch implementation is; it makes working on a laptop far more pleasant.
Quicktime now has greater sharing options as well as the ability to merge two clips. Resume is a great feature that I can't wait to be using. The new Safari is really great and I haven't used another web browser that comes anywhere close to it in how it feels to use. The ability to remotely log into your Mac and your account while someone is on the computer and using it is pretty neat. Application Sandboxing is a huge boost to system security. As a programmer, versions looks great. There's been so many times when I wish I could just hop back to a few saves ago to grab something I got rid of that I'd like back. Versions makes this possible.
Even the whole shift of paradigm from interacting with applications to interacting with content is great.
Really, there's something for everyone in this update. I think you won't get a full feeling of how many changes and improvements there are until it comes out and some complete reviews start coming out. I've been using Lion through the DPs and it's hard to go back to Snow Leopard after getting used to some of the changes. I am unequivocally more productive in Lion, and for once, I'm not always missing my mouse when I have to work on the go.
You forgot to mention that every application automatically saves all content (and VERSIONS of all content) so that you never have to lose data EVER AGAIN and can restart your workflow right where you left off.
Comments
Can you list what *signficant* apps are actually using Grand Central Dispatch, btw?
Do you even know what GCD is? It is a key technology, frankly any developer not using it is incompetent.
Perhaps an example of what you're talking about might be that Apple have added the launchpad, but still don't have a command that removes an installed app and all of its components.
If the application in question came as a package (pkg), you can completely remove it with the following two commands:
sudo pkgutil --unlink com.Vendor.Application
sudo pkgutil --forget com.Vendor.Application
Of course, you have to use the right package name.
UNIX way rules
I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro (that came with Snow Leopard as the pre-installed OS) that I might sell soon and replace with a mid-2011 MacBook Air. In the meantime, I plan to upgrade the MacBook Pro to Lion. When I sell it, I plan to format/restore it for the next owner (of course). I would like to restore it with Lion for the new owner, as this would be the latest OS that I will have loaded onto the machine myself - well within the rights afforded by my $29.99 Mac App Store purchase. Let's say that something happens with the machine (while in possession of the new owner) and that person needs to restore it with a new install of Lion. Could I legally pass along a bootable copy of Lion with the machine and would it still be legit? Would it be "legal" under the Mac App Store's policy?
It seems that before (when you bought an upgrade to OS X on disc) the OS license could be tied to the machine by simply passing the disc along to the new owner. This time around, it seems more like the OS purchase is tied to the user's Apple ID instead of the machine.
Does anyone know how this scenario will work in the near future? It's one I've been mulling over for several days now.
I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro (that came with Snow Leopard as the pre-installed OS) that I might sell soon and replace with a mid-2011 MacBook Air. In the meantime, I plan to upgrade the MacBook Pro to Lion. When I sell it, I plan to format/restore it for the next owner (of course). I would like to restore it with Lion for the new owner, as this would be the latest OS that I will have loaded onto the machine myself - well within the rights afforded by my $29.99 Mac App Store purchase. Let's say that something happens with the machine (while in possession of the new owner) and that person needs to restore it with a new install of Lion. Could I legally pass along a bootable copy of Lion with the machine and would it still be legit? Would it be "legal" under the Mac App Store's policy?
It seems that before (when you bought an upgrade to OS X on disc) the OS license could be tied to the machine by simply passing the disc along to the new owner. This time around, it seems more like the OS purchase is tied to the user's Apple ID instead of the machine.
In the United States, you would be protected by the SCOTUS ruling on backups. It could be argued that if you bought and installed Lion, then made a backup as permitted by the SCOTUS, that you would be obligated to either transfer the backup with the machine when selling it or destroy it. It would probably not be legal to keep your backup of the install image -- unless doing so is expressly permitted by Apple's license agreement, which I doubt.
In the United States, you would be protected by the SCOTUS ruling on backups. It could be argued that if you bought and installed Lion, then made a backup as permitted by the SCOTUS, that you would be obligated to either transfer the backup with the machine when selling it or destroy it. It would probably not be legal to keep your backup of the install image -- unless doing so is expressly permitted by Apple's license agreement, which I doubt.
First and foremost, I would like to thank you for your reply. It is much appreciated.
So, if I understand you correctly, I would be obligated to transfer a copy of the Lion image with the machine if I sold it to the person with Lion already installed? I personally feel that would be the right thing to do, but am I actually obligated? Maybe what you're saying is, according to this SCOTUS precedent, I would be legally obligated to no longer have a copy of the OS in my possession if the machine it was meant for transferred ownership. Keep in mind that it's not a single-machine license nor single physical copy (on a disc or USB drive) of Lion we're talking about here. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point.
If I also own a 27" iMac that I'm allowed to install a copy of Lion onto per the Mac App Store license agreement (which just so happens to be the case here) then I would be allowed to keep a backup of the Lion install image in my possession while also passing along an image of Lion with the MacBook Pro being sold, correct?
First and foremost, I would like to thank you for your reply. It is much appreciated.
So, if I understand you correctly, I would be obligated to transfer a copy of the Lion image with the machine if I sold it to the person with Lion already installed?
No, not necessarily. I'm writing that IF you make a backup copy of software you're licensed to run on that machine, then you probably need to either transfer the backup copy together with the machine or destroy the backup copy. Keeping the backup copy when selling the machine might be illegal in the US and some other jurisdictions. (In some non-US jurisdictions it might be illegal to make the backup copy in the first place, though I've never heard of this being enforced.)
I personally feel that would be the right thing to do, but am I actually obligated? Maybe what you're saying is, according to this SCOTUS precedent, I would be legally obligated to no longer have a copy of the OS in my possession if the machine it was meant for transferred ownership.
I mean it's not obvious what your legal basis for keeping the backup copy would be once you've sold the machine. However, see below.
If I also own a 27" iMac that I'm allowed to install a copy of Lion onto per the Mac App Store license agreement (which just so happens to be the case here) then I would be allowed to keep a backup of the Lion install image in my possession while also passing along an image of Lion with the MacBook Pro being sold, correct?
Yes, correct, in the US.
I think he has... just stating that for content and power user folks this isn't innovation inside, but iOS on the outside...
or you simply don't understand why for serious users the underlying platform innovations are so important
Oh, I understand very well. Don't talk about power users, you don't know what I do.
I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me.
It fundamentally changes your computer's workflow. If you have no reason to upgrade, you have no reason to have moved to a computer from paper.
I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me.
That statement is absurd. This is one of the biggest Mac OS updates to come in a very long time. You are very uninformed if you believe there is nothing compelling in Lion. There are improvements for just about every type of user; from the command line junky, to the document writer, to the game player, or the graphics designer. There are so man improvements that I can't take your statement seriously.
That statement is absurd. This is one of the biggest Mac OS updates to come in a very long time. You are very uninformed if you believe there is nothing compelling in Lion. There are improvements for just about every type of user; from the command line junky, to the document writer, to the game player, or the graphics designer. There are so man improvements that I can't take your statement seriously.
I don't disagree with you; in fact as a programmer I can see lots of potential in some of the new features in Lion. I am curious, as I haven't noticed much myself, of what the improvements in Lion for gaming are. Have they done any substantial work on the graphic drivers? They really, even for comparing OpenGL from OS X to Windows on the same card, quite a bit behind their Windows counterparts.
...There are improvements for just about every type of user.
You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar? Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop? The app store which I already have in SL?
And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...
I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me.
Then there should be nothing in it for you to continue bitching about it.
Then there should be nothing in it for you to continue bitching about it.
How was I bitching about it exactly? I merely said I wouldn't be upgrading and then got attacked by a fanboy...
How was I bitching about it exactly? I merely said I wouldn't be upgrading and then got attacked by a fanboy...
People who consider themselves anti-fanboys would say the exact same thing I said.
How was I bitching about it exactly? I merely said I wouldn't be upgrading and then got attacked by a fanboy...
Maybe you're just a petty and superficial ass but your comments come across as trolling. Your posts in the thread keep asserting the same lame examples to assure everyone that all of Lion is crap.
Personally, I do not care for the look and feel of Address Book or iCal, and have removed LaunchPad from my Dock as soon as that was possible in Preview 2, but for me to say that these three things represent all of Lion or that Lion is not a worthy effort nor well worth the $30 cost would be a bald face lie. The fact is Lion is a brilliant update for any serious Mac OS user.
You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar?
Another way to look at those interfaces is that they work really well for a large number of Apples users. In any event you seem to view things from the surface and don't even attempt a shallow understanding of what is being offered up.
Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop?
Full screen mode is useless? Honestly you believe that.
The app store which I already have in SL?
And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...
If you would actually take the time to look at the publically released information, that is the 250 new features Apple squawks about you might start to think a bit. You might even say to yourself gee what did they do to the system to enable those features.
In any event you seem to not realize what an operating system is for. It is not about the Apple supplied apps even if people expect them these days. What an OS does is enables the development of software through APIs. If you look at Lion in this regard it is a massive update. It builds upon the foundations first deployed in Snow Leopard to provide developers with a robust place to run their apps.
I'm not even sure where this idea that Operating System updates are all about the user software. Users run apps, apps come after the deployment of the OS.
Now maybe even after developers gave a shot at Lion you won't find any apps compelling on Lion. I suggest that you will be in a very very tiny minority.
Maybe you're just a petty and superficial ass but your comments come across as trolling.
The further he goes down this path the worst he looks. In fact he makes a superficial ass look useful to society.
Your posts in the thread keep asserting the same lame examples to assure everyone that all of Lion is crap.
I don't think any major update can please everybody in all aspects of the update. I'm sure that each of us will take displeasure with a feature or two. The problem with this guy is that he apparently can't grasp that there is a lot of good in Lion nor that delivering this good took a lot of effort.
Personally, I do not care for the look and feel of Address Book or iCal, and have removed LaunchPad from my Dock as soon as that was possible in Preview 2, but for me to say that these three things represent all of Lion or that Lion is not a worthy effort and well worth the $30 cost would be a bald face lie. The fact is Lion is a brilliant update for any serious Mac OS user.
That is pretty much my take also. Without going into details it is an impressive collection of new technologies and improvements to old ones.
You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar? Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop? The app store which I already have in SL?
And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...
The cutesy interfaces are certainly designed for the more casual users. What exactly is it you do? I really do feel there is something for everyone with Lion. Airdrop is pretty impressive and no other OS has something quite like it yet. Definitely useful. Cocoa support in Applescript applets is fantastic. Autosave fundamentally changes how you operate on a computer, and I for one cannot wait for it's appearance. Proper boolean searches across the Finder and all sorts of other apps is a great addition.
The ability to merge folders is finally here.
Full-screen apps in and of itself isn't that impressive, but how they've managed to make it seamless to switch between full screen apps or back to the desktop is ingenious. Launchpad, while I was a little "eh" initially, is truly a great way to manage your apps. Part of what makes it great is how quickly you can get at it. The new Mail is a huge improvement as far as usability and readability goes over the last one. If you're running on a newer laptop, it cannot be put into words how effective the multitouch implementation is; it makes working on a laptop far more pleasant.
Quicktime now has greater sharing options as well as the ability to merge two clips. Resume is a great feature that I can't wait to be using. The new Safari is really great and I haven't used another web browser that comes anywhere close to it in how it feels to use. The ability to remotely log into your Mac and your account while someone is on the computer and using it is pretty neat. Application Sandboxing is a huge boost to system security. As a programmer, versions looks great. There's been so many times when I wish I could just hop back to a few saves ago to grab something I got rid of that I'd like back. Versions makes this possible.
Even the whole shift of paradigm from interacting with applications to interacting with content is great.
Really, there's something for everyone in this update. I think you won't get a full feeling of how many changes and improvements there are until it comes out and some complete reviews start coming out. I've been using Lion through the DPs and it's hard to go back to Snow Leopard after getting used to some of the changes. I am unequivocally more productive in Lion, and for once, I'm not always missing my mouse when I have to work on the go.