Microsoft CEO pans Apple's Mac sales, admits 'very small' Windows Phone sales

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  • Reply 141 of 169
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samwell View Post


    Are you trying to set a record for number of posts?



    What other reason could you have for 1000+ posts in a month? Just come out of a coma?







    In this defence, I think Cloudgazer does post some of the most informed and interesting posts. I don't mind reading them!
  • Reply 142 of 169
    fearlessfearless Posts: 134member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    "We've got a lot of competition in the Windows business," Ballmer said.



    Er... from whom? Who else sells Windows? I think Microsoft may be resting on some laurels here... the Mac will never outsell Windows because most of Microsoft's sales are automatic. And who really cares? Microsoft won that one decades ago - and they're still gloating over it? Sounds like Mr Ballmer's company needs a dose of Vitamin V...
  • Reply 143 of 169
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fearless View Post


    Er... from whom? Who else sells Windows? I think Microsoft may be resting on some laurels here... the Mac will never outsell Windows because most of Microsoft's sales are automatic. And who really cares? Microsoft won that one decades ago - and they're still gloating over it? Sounds like Mr Ballmer's company needs a dose of Vitamin V...



    MS uses windows to mean PC, they've had the monopoly so long that they've lost the ability to distinguish, and yes the competition is actually significant. Obviously there's Apple and Linux taking an increasingly large segment of laptops, even without tablets being counted as PCs. Linux and variants are even starting to take corporate desktop seats, especially in call centres and the like. I'm not sure what is going on in the server room these days, but I presume Linux is slowly taking share there too.



    What's really hurting though is that MS is being hammered in the browser space

    ( see for instance http://gs.statcounter.com/ ). The loss of the IE monopoly and the inexorable rise of Webkit powered browsers is what is allowing all these other attacks to take place. MS knew the risk which is why it killed off netscape in the 90s, but the DoJ wouldn't stand for it again, and besides the web community has grown wiser to MS-style 'embrace & extend'.



    The Windows monopoly is a lot more vulnerable than it was, hence all the chest thumping.
  • Reply 144 of 169
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 907member
    To all those saying MS can't innovate I have a few items for you:

    Kinect http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/06/mf_kinect/

    Surface http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx

    Photosynth http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx



    And MS crushes Apple in the business enterprise space. MS knows how to handle big corporate customers. Apple does not - see the recent FCP fiasco.



    I completely agree that MS could be so much more with a more tech-savvy instead of business-savvy leader. But they are not headed to bankruptcy any time soon.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 145 of 169
    res08haores08hao Posts: 114member
    Microsoft did not actually sell any computers.
  • Reply 146 of 169
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sagan_student View Post


    I personally would never go without my magic trackpad. It's been over a year sans mouse and am loving it. You should really give it a good go.



    It's so great that I tried changing my user name to anonytrackpad.
  • Reply 147 of 169
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post


    To all those saying MS can't innovate I have a few items for you:

    Kinect http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/06/mf_kinect/

    Surface http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx

    Photosynth http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx



    Innovation doesn't just mean throwing technology out, it means making technology take. MS has on occasion innovated, but I wouldn't consider any of those good examples of it. Oh and your last hyperlink is wrong
  • Reply 148 of 169
    res08haores08hao Posts: 114member
    Even the most casual observer will note that everyone listens when Steve Jobs speaks, but nobody cares what Blowhard Ballmer says.
  • Reply 149 of 169
    axualaxual Posts: 244member
    Steve Ballmer needs to stop complaining about the other guy. The other guy is winning and Ballmer does not know what to do.



    PC sales are 350 million because they cost $4 ... lot's of people are going to buy $4 PCs ... but where is Zune? Where is Windows Phone? Where is the tablet?



    MS is failing in these other areas because they are following, not leading.



    Memo to Steve Ballmer ... shut your pie trap and start innovating.
  • Reply 150 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    What a tard this guy is. He should be removed immediately. Every time he opens his mouth, he's blasting Apple and making excuses for Microsoft's failures. Apple's growth--particularly in this economy--is unreal. The more they succeed, the more Ballmer goes monkey boy-batshit crazy.



    What's weird is it doesn't make sense. Ballmer is right...Windows PCs outsell Macs more than 10 to 1. Yes, Apple is kicking ass in the mobile segment. But why even go after "the other guys" like that? It's got to be some sort of psychological disorder. Otherwise you'd think Ballmer would lead M$ in a direction that compliments Apple's market rather than competes with it. M$ should focus on its core business...Windows PCs, Office, Exchange and the Xbox division. They should embrace the Mac success, expanding their Mac Business Unit. You want to offer a Windows phone OS? Fine...go for it. But focus on making apps for the already dominant market players...iOS and Android. M$ can easily have a symbiant relationship with Apple. They certainly don't need monkey boy up there constantly bashing Apple.



    Problem here is - MS needs new markets. They simply cannot grow much more - any more - in desktops, servers, office software. Even if Apple would decide to ditch desktop OSX and completely move to phones/tablets/media players, MS would grow, what? Another 10% in US, 5% worldwide?



    Like them or not, MS has reached pinnacle in what they are already good at. Now they can comfortably stagnate or try to conquer - or, at least, bite as much as they can - from newly emerging, still growing markets: smart phones, tablets.



    I'm finding it amusing that so many people here think MS is chasing after Apple; they are not. They are chasing after markets where it just happens Apple is very strong, but they are not chasing those markets because Apple is strong there - they are chasing them because they are weak and can expand. Likewise, they were chasing game console market where Apple did not exist (at the time) but where Sony and Nintendo were strong... and when you thing of it, Apple is chasing that market as well, though from a bit different angle of approach.
  • Reply 151 of 169
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Problem here is - MS needs new markets. They simply cannot grow much more - any more - in desktops, servers, office software. Even if Apple would decide to ditch desktop OSX and completely move to phones/tablets/media players, MS would grow, what? Another 10% in US, 5% worldwide?



    Apple is rapidly acquiring the same problem, and they still have to figure out what to do with the rapidly burgeoning war-chest. Still, as problems go it's a good problem to have.
  • Reply 152 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    Apple is rapidly acquiring the same problem, and they still have to figure out what to do with the rapidly burgeoning war-chest. Still, as problems go it's a good problem to have.



    True that... though, Apple has very strong position in the markets that are expecting to grow enormously - smart phones, tablets. In a way, they are better than MS - who has strong position in a market that will grow very little at best, stagnate at average or even shrink at worst - and who need to expand in market they haven't even make a decent breakthrough yet.



    But at the end of the day, they both have surplus of money they need to invest where they can expand their market share and profit.
  • Reply 153 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post


    A long time ago, Jobs said, "We have to get rid of the idea that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose." Apple deftly stepped around Microsoft. And Microsoft is still looking at where Apple was.



    Well, they are looking at Google as well. They were looking at Sony and Nintendo when they started Xbox thing.



    And Apple is looking at RIM, Google, Samsung, HTC. Apple is also growing taste for gaming, so I'm pretty sure they are closely watching (and analysing) Nintendo and Sony.



    And Apple, MS and RIM are together behind Rockstar Bidco who out-bided Goggle for Nortel patent portfolio. Enemies or best buddies..?



    Trust me - they all look where others are. Only some of them do that a bit less obvious.
  • Reply 154 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    People say this a lot but seriously why? Right now MS is releasing better products more consistantly than they ever have. Even Bing has somehow become a success!



    I tried to argue with that but I gave up eventually.



    The fact is, however, that MS has released number of quality products in the years after Gates, compared to product being released in the same number of years before his retirement.



    Also worth considering is that Vista was Gates legacy (after more than 6 years of XP), and Windows Server family didn't change much from 2003.



    Now... SB is hardly likeable (though I'm finding his appearances amusing)... but then again, I'm finding SJ hardly likeable, even if very different reasons.



    SB is not visionary, but he is wise enough to realise that and let more capable people do their job without much interference from his side. If you accept you cannot have man of SJ's talents in every company (and it probably wouldn't work for every company anyway), SB is doing fine job where he is.
  • Reply 155 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tangential View Post


    I think Steve is right 350 is bigger than 20.



    The only areas where Apple leads Microsoft are Revenues, EPS, Market Cap, Growth Rate and Customer Satisfaction (not to mention Security and Stability as well.)



    Does anyone really think any of those are all that important?



    Actually Microsoft's customer satisfaction was higher than Apple's after Windows 7 was released; don't know how do they compare right now, but it wasn't long ago. But don't confuse MS customer satisfaction to Dell, HP, Asus... and other hardware vendors' customer satisfaction.
  • Reply 156 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    How many Macs that have been sold are still in use compared to how many PCs are in the recycle bin? And how often to people switch from Mac to PC?



    If there was a reliable way to determine how many computers of each type are being used the "market share" charts would look very different I think.



    And while Apple certainly needs certain amount of market share to ensure that third parties etc do not leave the platform - it is not the focus for Apple relative to profits. What MS may be missing is that each quarter their use base is eroded as more and more people switch to alternatives.



    That is normal. Think percentages.



    If 5% (1 in 20) users switch from Mac to Windows, Windows market share will hardly notice that. The growth will not be even close to 1%.



    If 5% users switch from Windows to Mac, Mac market share will explode. It will almost double number of Mac users world wide.



    When you have 5% of worldwide market share, it is so much easier to grow. When you have 95%, you simply don't have any more space to grow.
  • Reply 157 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post


    Ballmer should look at partnering with Apple and have a Windows operating system installed on every Mac, as well as MS Office. Think about making a profit with apple instead of bad mouthing the company. At least hold on to the office monopoly.



    I already said this, but just for the lolz... If every Mac would come with bootcamp-ed Windows and MS Office, MS would see 5% of growth sales worldwide. It is hardly something to write home about.



    But if MS and Nokia play it right, they can see much bigger growth in mobile market.



    It is not given, but it can be done. MS did it with consoles, taking on unquestionable leader Sony was at the time (with PS and PS2).
  • Reply 158 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 80025 View Post


    [In the address, Ballmer highlighted sales of 350 million Windows-based PCs in the last year, and used the number to criticize Apple without referring to the company by name.



    "We've got a lot of competition in the Windows business," Ballmer said. "But we're driving hard with just in the last year alone 350 million -- 350 million -- new PCs sold. That might compare with numbers from other guys that are in the 20 million range. Now, 20 is too much, but 350, last time I checked, is a lot more than 20."}



    When is Bawlbaby Ballmer going to realise that MajorCrap does NOT make hardware? It's time to separate the Windreck OS from the hardware. Apple makes the hardware and software. MajorCrap only makes softeare.



    And yes there a number of companies that make PCs, and yes the sales of the PC hardware might be higher than a sole company that makes an integrated software/hardware product, but MajorCrap makes no computer hardware. So Bawlbaby can toute all the "I'm a PC" and "Make my home a PC store" commercials he wants. But he ought to really stop taking credit for the hardware.



    Like they say, it maybe "Life Without Walls" but it's still a pane (pain).



    Dude. Are you 12 or something? That name-changing is really lame.
  • Reply 159 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by _Hawkeye_ View Post


    You forgot to add in the additional expense of all the virus software and subscriptions required to run Windoze.



    You also seem to mistake cost for value.



    You managed to discredit yourself with first sentence. Not bad achievement.



    Microsoft Security Essentials, growing to be No.1 consumer AV in US. I believe they are already No.1 free AV, before Avira, AVG, Comodo Security. Free of charge.



    Windows SkyDrive, 25GB of online storage for free. This will grow into MS cloud space for syncing desktops and mobile devices.



    What subscriptions do you believe are required to run Windows, anyway?
  • Reply 160 of 169
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    my point is the UI is wrong for that. the general reaction in the USA is that WP 7 is "cool." well that's nice. but "cool" does not translate across cultures well. Nokia went to great lengths working with local telcos around the world to localize its products, inlcuding their top level of Symbian UI. that is one big reason why it had so many different models and strong global sales. i can't see WP 7 being as easy to localize, even if Nokia can keep its experienced global marketing team in place. and will MS give it the flexibility it would need to cut deals that give those local telcos' in house servies priority over MS services (assuming they can be reformatted into tiles)? i don't think so.



    so yeah, that leaves the EU. Nokia's last stand.



    You are missing one thing - Americans' patriotism.



    Xbox 360 is so much stronger in US than in rest of the world. It is American product, after all.



    Motorola is so much stronger in US than in rest of the world. It is American product, after all.



    Apple is so much stronger in US than in rest of the world. It is American product, after all.



    American car brands are so much stronger in US than in rest of the world. They are American products, after all.



    ...



    Now... Nokia was never American brand and never achieved success it had in Europe, Asia... pretty much anywhere else. But now, Nokias are going to be WP7 products as well; American products. Noone can say, but I wouldn't be surprised if Americanised Nokia doesn't end up being much more successful in US than it was before. It will be interesting to watch.
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